The one gameplay video I've seen is absolutely nothing like the trailers (obviously), and in no way makes me want to pick it up. It might be on page 2 of this thread, I can't remember.

6/16/2010 1:15:45 PM

Quote :

"^And you can tell that The Old Republic doesn't/won't have better graphics, storyline, and game play just from the cinematic? Brilliant!"

Common sense my dear Watson,

Graphics - MMORPGs may never have better graphics than a stand alone RPG. Limiting factor => The internets.

Storyline - If you feel like a discombobulated mixture of a million side quests, never ending character level-ups, & an incoherent story-line drawn up after as an after thought, make up a "good" storyline, then sure.

Game play - It's subjective.



To be fair, it's all subjective. Graphics, storyline, game play. So, we'll let the consumers decide if this game succeeds or fails.

6/16/2010 2:01:35 PM

Quote :

"Graphics - MMORPGs may never have better graphics than a stand alone RPG. Limiting factor => The internets."

Why would that be true? The content is already going to be loaded on your computer, you don't stream it from the network. You're just streaming gameplay data, which has nothing to do with the graphical environment.

6/16/2010 2:12:49 PM

Hey, the burden of proof isn't on me. Name an MMORPG with sweet graphics?


To be fair, I'm in the wrong really. I came into this thread knowing MMORPGs aren't designed for graphics, they aren't designed to have enthralling story lines or revolutionary game play. To me, modern day MMORPGs serve two purposes:

1. Money maker - Mainstream MMORPGs are purely designed to make money. You can blame it on Ultima Online, the first paid MMORPG. They were like the America Online of MMORPGs.

2. Social Networking - They're basically chat rooms. Chat rooms don't need nice graphics or storylines.

6/16/2010 2:38:08 PM

Oh I'm not saying that any current MMOs are really that wonderful in the graphics department, but my point is that the limiting factor for that isn't the network. We're still talking textures an polygons.

6/16/2010 3:03:36 PM

I'm no gaming programmer, but I think we're underestimating the amount of bandwidth it requires to send all that data. I mean, if we increase the polygons that get rendered on my screen, that means more data has to be transferred to your PC so you can render those polygons... and so on and so forth. So, maybe not necessarily the network, but the implementation of the network is the limiting factor.

I believe one of the limiting factors in the graphics department is the MMORPG industry's clientele. Not everyone has the latest and greatest hardware. So, if they up the graphics factor, only users with the best hardware can play. That means a drop in their customer pool. Thus, going back to my first point. MMORPGs are designed to make money.

[Edited on June 16, 2010 at 3:23 PM. Reason : hmmm]

6/16/2010 3:18:02 PM

^ MMOs typically only share action and positional data between the client and server. This data is the same if the character models have 10 polygons or 10 million.

6/16/2010 6:12:00 PM

Age of Conan had good graphics when it came out.

6/16/2010 7:57:27 PM

The thing about graphics in MMOs is that the studio needs to make sure that as many people as possible are able to run the game in the first place (to sell more, for one... and to make sure the player base is large enough, for another).

Minimum settings should at least be accessible to people with 3+ year old computers. There's still no limit to the highest settings, but the genre has other priorities.

6/21/2010 4:52:34 AM

Just put it on a console and we'll be good. Hell package/mail-in rebate a keyboard and mouse and everyone is happy.

6/21/2010 7:44:07 AM

I'd much rather all this time and effort be put into another KoTR game instead of a MMO I'll never play. I know these are cash cows in the industry, but I'd love to have a single player game where I could choose to be a bounty hunter, or smuggler, or jedi.

6/21/2010 7:49:35 AM

Quote :

"^^ KAME HAME HA!"

This isn't the first Star Wars game to have a Force projectile attack. If I recall correctly, Jedi Knight was the first game to have Jedi, Force, and light-saber combat period, and on the Dark Side you had Force Destruction that was basically a massively destructive Fireball. Anyway, this attack just looked like a super powerful Force Push.

On a side note, I found it ridiculous that the Jedi was able to use some kind of Force barrier/Force Absorb to hold the lightsaber.

6/21/2010 7:53:11 AM

re: MMO Graphics. Its true that they want to target a wide player base, but something people dont generally consider is the ammount of memory mmos use. In any MMO there is a huge variety of items and characters that can be on screen at any time. While world items and structures are static and their required textures can be predicted, things like character gear becomes very complex. Each character has their own set of gear. Each particular player item might be customized (enchants in wow). When you get into a zone with many characters your client grabs the data for what goes where from the server, and then loads textures and effects from disk. Lots of characters means lots of disk churning and lots of textures that need to go into memory. Then you have to constantly switch that from system -> gpu ram in order to display it on screen. The result is even though MMOs may seem less impressive visually, they are actually using a good deal of system resources because theres simply so much more stuff they have to manage.

WoW made up for this with a very well defined art style. Consistency is much more important than pure texture resolution in terms of atmosphere. From what we've seen so far of SWTOR bioware realizes this and is focusing on making it an engaging experience, rather than wasting time on maxing out triangles and texture res.

re: network requirements. No graphical data is ever sent between client and server. Increasing the number of polygons wont affect network data, but it would definitely affect GPU usage. All rendering happens client side. The data that goes between client and server is all information about the game state. Things like what characters are on screen and at what coordinates. What gear are they wearing, what animation should the client play for them, etc... For example the server sends the client info about a character including what gear ids are in what slots. The client then finds the info about the gear locally, including shape, textures, effects, etc... and then displays it on the character. New gear with higher polygon counts and texture resolution can be substituted without any change in what the server sends the client. However, that can create other issues if you allow the user to change them willy nilly. Doing cheater things like replacing enemy textures with bright pink ones to make them more visible. Replacing transparant (invisible) textures with visible ones, etc.... Possible collision detection confusion between the client and server (although the server would always win resulting in client graphical glitches). Or just plain ugly texures that the game maker doesn't want uglying up their game. So replacing that shit isnt allowed and is enforced with various anti-cheating mechanisms.

wrt bandwidth usage: while an MMO certainly requires more throughput than an FPS, relative to a broadband connection the difference is insignificant. Latency is far more important.

re: story, Bioware is the king of RPG stories. If anyone has a chance of developing an MMO with an engaging story and characters, Bioware is it.



[Edited on June 21, 2010 at 10:34 AM. Reason : ']

6/21/2010 10:30:40 AM

beta testing underway...anyone got an invite so far?

8/8/2010 1:41:43 AM

waaaaa

where's my code!?!?

8/8/2010 1:57:36 AM

ohsnap! HK-47's back!

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/09/04/meatbag-hating-droid-hk-47-teased-in-star-wars-the-old-republic/

9/4/2010 10:29:05 PM

huh... I thought The Old Republic was supposed to be set before the events of KotOR...

9/4/2010 10:41:04 PM

HK-47 had quite the history before the events in KotOR.

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 10:52 PM. Reason : or I guess maybe he didn't according to wookiepedia. hmm...]

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 10:54 PM. Reason : seeing as how Revan actually created him and all.]

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 10:55 PM. Reason : I forgot about that part of the twist.]

9/4/2010 10:49:30 PM

I thought TOR was 1-2 hundred years after KOTOR

9/5/2010 1:15:05 AM

Really?

I thought the whole Jedi order had gotten fucked up and was still in hiding/rebuilding after the events of KotOR 2... and that there were very few force users left at all anyway.

Or does the Exile rebuild the order like crazy after the events of the game? I remember that the game implied that it would be his duty, but I never actually got to see the ending thanks to crazy-ass glitches crashing me near the end of the game.

9/5/2010 3:23:29 AM

did anyone get into the beta?

9/5/2010 11:31:16 AM

Quote :

"Hey, the burden of proof isn't on me. Name an MMORPG with sweet graphics?"

EVE Online is pretty good-looking.

9/5/2010 3:20:17 PM

Quote :

"Name an MMORPG with sweet graphics?"

Aion

9/5/2010 4:24:39 PM

Quote :

"EVE Online is pretty good-looking."

Eve online has almost no texture or "character" diversity. There are a number of ships, but they all use the same textures. 500 rifters produces similar load problems to 1 rifter. The load moves from disk/memory to gpu/memory. Combine that with the fact the environment is empty space so theres no added load there (all space games have lower hardware reqs because of this).

And while the textures and models are nice looking, there are no advanced physics features like proper weapon collision detection or visual ship damage. Lasers hit your ship with no visually apparent effect until the ship blows up at 0 health.

Where eve does suffer is server side performance because its a poorly written piece of shit.

[Edited on September 6, 2010 at 1:19 AM. Reason : e]

9/6/2010 1:18:44 AM

you guys might get a kick out of this:
http://ealouse.wordpress.com/

Quote :

"And Bioware? Don’t make me laugh. They’ve spent more money making the Old Republic than James Cameron spent on Avatar. Shit you not. More than $ 300 million! Can you believe that? And you know what they’re most proud of? This is the kicker. They are most proud of the sound. No seriously. Something like a 20Gig installation, and most of it is voiceover work. That’s the best they have. The rest of the game is a joke. EA knows it and so does George Lucas,they’re panicking , and so most of Mythic has already been cannibalized to work in Austin on it because they can’t keep pushing back launch. Old Republic will be one of the greatest failures in the history of MMOs from EA. Probably at the level of the Sims Online. We all know it too ……"

10/13/2010 4:46:30 PM

Quote :

"And you know what they’re most proud of? This is the kicker. They are most proud of the sound. No seriously. Something like a 20Gig installation, and most of it is voiceover work. That’s the best they have."

Someone doesn't know how much good voice actors cost... and MMOs tend to have a shitload of characters, and Bioware tends to avoid the Bethseda method of making every third person you meet sound exactly the same.

...Hell, they're probably having to pay their writers more than usual, too (or at least longer than usual), just due to the sheer amount of content demanded by an MMO

[Edited on October 13, 2010 at 6:35 PM. Reason : .]

10/13/2010 6:27:58 PM

That guy doesn't sound very credible. The most expensive game ever made was GTA 4 at 100 million.

10/13/2010 6:43:23 PM

but this game hasnt been made yet. >_> i bet WoW has cost more at this point anyway.


http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/41586/World-of-WarCraft-Costs-200-Million-to-Maintain

[Edited on October 13, 2010 at 7:30 PM. Reason : fact check]

10/13/2010 7:28:00 PM

^ I know, but I don't expect a game to come out and suddenly triple the all time high for game costs. EA says it's the most expensive game they have ever produced, and I don't doubt it's around $100 million, but until I see a credible source I'm skeptical of $300 million.

10/13/2010 8:55:41 PM

Quote :

"Your account has been selected to participate in the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ Game Testing Program. You have been invited to specifically test Ord Mantell and Coruscant where you can play as either the Republic Trooper or Smuggler between the dates of November 22nd through December 1st. "

nice.

11/19/2010 7:37:53 PM

my favorite part about that ealouse guy is how he hates on the music and the voice acting. The two things that create more game immersion than anything else.

11/19/2010 8:16:44 PM

I cant wait for this game.

11/19/2010 10:13:11 PM

off to a good start, can't create a character.

11/24/2010 12:20:24 PM

So have you be able to get it working? If so, what are your thoughts on the gameplay?

11/26/2010 1:29:33 PM

not supposed to discuss, but I have been playing most of today and yesterday.

11/26/2010 6:16:48 PM

fuck man : i really wanted to btest this. lol

11/26/2010 11:13:17 PM

I watched a 20 minute video with a sneak peak on youtube and really want to play this game, i loved KOTR 1&2. Have they hinted at a release date yet, anything more specific than Q2 or Q3? I'm really hoping that my laptop is capable of running this.

1/23/2011 5:56:02 PM

I cant wait to get out there and start killing some rats for 5 levels

1/24/2011 10:19:03 PM

I would love to finally hear a firm release date on this game. But my prediction is late fall.

1/24/2011 10:51:03 PM

http://www.gamefocus.ca/?nav=new&nid=12602

Some source says September is release month.

1/26/2011 10:53:11 AM

btt hands on write-up

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/03/star-wars-the-old-republic-shaping-up-beautifully-months-ahead-of-launch.ars

3/14/2011 11:43:06 PM

that writeup is like 90% hype 5% non-applicable info 5% real info

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

[Edited on March 15, 2011 at 10:43 AM. Reason : ]

3/15/2011 10:43:22 AM

i'd love to see it come out this year, but the longer it goes with no release date, the more unlikely that becomes.

3/15/2011 10:43:38 AM

the last few video's i've seen of TOR have been really polished. the game looks great now. However word out of PAX is that TOR plays -VERY- WoW like now. Like disturbingly so.



oh and

Quote :

"Hey, the burden of proof isn't on me. Name an MMORPG with sweet graphics?"

you're high as monkey balls.... you tarded !?

aions graphics are amazing... stunning really.

Rift's are damn good.

Guild Wars 2 looks to have really impressive graphics as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZULtOwBQrdY

3/15/2011 6:24:55 PM

^so you mean it plays like a good MMORPG?

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

3/15/2011 7:08:10 PM

Guild Wars uses instances. You get to take a handful of people with you into an area. I hardly consider that an MMO at all. My best memories from early MMOs were wandering around in the wilderness for hours and occasionally running across random people.

Anyway, I imagine instances place a lot less demand on processing than allowing any number of players to show up in the same area at once. So... not a good example for graphics IMO

3/15/2011 7:15:25 PM

^^ depends on your point of view... i guess a lot of kids wanted "something new" or "something different"


I personally have no problem taking a model that works and making it better. for better or worse wow does -a lot- of things right. Taking that model and moving it to a more engaging environment and losing the same tired story that's just seemed to become monotonous doesn't seem like a negative at all to me.


in that guild wars 2 boss vid from pax ... there's prob 300 people running around killing the boss... they've said they're changing the game play a lot for GW2. more pve content, bigger maps, larger areas to move around in with other people. it's not just going to be straight arena instances like GW1.

looks like they're actually trying to make a mmo this time and not just a pretty d2

[Edited on March 16, 2011 at 7:06 AM. Reason : .]

3/16/2011 7:05:11 AM

I still can't wait for this game. If it really plays like WoW I'm definitely in. The only reason I stopped playing WoW was that it's basically crack, and drugs are bad mmmk.

3/26/2011 11:34:22 PM

So you want WoW but with Star Wars.......wont that be a little more addictive?????

3/27/2011 12:11:09 AM

No i think he would prefer a bad MMO that isn't fun to play

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

3/27/2011 12:47:42 AM