6/15/2009 4:29:12 PM

god damn wolfweb

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 4:37 PM. Reason : pos]

6/15/2009 4:37:09 PM

oh well. at least we showed up and prob only lost cause of the red card...but you never know, i wouldnt be surprised to see a 0-0 game if the red card never happens. failhaber hurt us in the midfield today by completing more passes to italy than to us players. i dont think adu is ever going to play for bradley. hopefully jermaine jones can save our midfield haha.

best player on the field today, imo, was spector. (not sure if he got beat on the last goal by pirlo on the side as i was hardly paying attention in injury time) He had a solid game and didnt let italy attack at all from their left side. he made a ton of defensive stops and his clearances were superb (as were most of gooch's too). i cant see how he doesnt continue to start at right back, barring injury, from now on.

hopefully we can get a consistent starting 4 in the back soon as all this rotating around, whether from performance or injury, is really killing us... 7 goals against in the last 3 games (maybe 9 in 4??).

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 4:37 PM. Reason : g]

6/15/2009 4:37:09 PM

Quote :

"oh come on, who would you rather play for? Italy? Or us?"

USA. Because, you know...I'm an American. Now if you're asking me if I'd rather play for AC Milan or DC United, that's a different story.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 4:48 PM. Reason : f]

6/15/2009 4:47:45 PM

Is it in bad taste to call that fucker a Jersey Guido?

6/15/2009 4:50:02 PM

no rossi is definitely a guido. he was in the usa all the way up until high school. what an ass.

that game sucked, but we played well. if it wasn't for a bad call by the ref, we would've been in it the whole time, but I wasn't happy about Bradley's coaching decisions. Putting on Davies was a good move, but bringing on beasley again at left back and waiting until the 85th minute to put on an attacking mid is just stupid. He could've made that move 10 minutes earlier. Overall it was a good game, and I think spector should stay at right back forever (unfortunately bradley will probably put hedjuk back in when hes healthy)

6/15/2009 4:58:15 PM

^^^ okay, if you were him I meant

yeah he was born in the US, but his family is all Italian, he was raised an Italian fan, he lived in Italy for a while.... it's not a cut and dry situation like some people want to make it out to be. It's not like he was born in Jersey and found out when he was 18 that his long lost relative was Italian and he was like, "oh fuck you US, I'm going to Italy."

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM. Reason : .]

6/15/2009 4:59:26 PM

It sort of actually IS like that, though not as dramatic as you are making it sound.

He was born in, grew up in and went to school in the shadow of New York City. He was born as an American citizen. He just has dual-citizenship because his Dad is an Italian citizen.

Yeah, he went to play in Parma's academy when he was 14 or something... but still.

I'm not killing him because he can do that having dual-citizenship. It just sucks to see American talent playing for a World power...

6/15/2009 5:03:47 PM

yeah it definitely sucks...

I just can't hate on him too much when I'm gladly accepting people that choose the US over their respective country in the same situation, like Jermaine Jones. We're just pissed that somebody snubbed us. You know damn well we'd all worship this dude if it were the other way around and he was born in Italy and chose us

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 5:07 PM. Reason : .]

6/15/2009 5:06:10 PM

freddy adu chose us over ghana but hes probably regretting that now

6/15/2009 5:17:13 PM

^ yep


when will "we tried hard" not be enough? who cares if somebody gives 110% or whatever if they're just not good enough?

and Kljestan over Adu is mind boggling to me, and Beasley over anybody is just Bradley saying screw you to everybody, my job is safe and to prove it, check this out

6/15/2009 5:27:26 PM

the move to put beasley was when we were tied, but why put in your worst defensive player to try to keep the tie? his decisions just don't make any sense. feilhaber needed to come out, because he was having a really bad game, but beasley has been horrible for us for about a year, so either bradley makes changes or he needs to go. I'm tired of him always picking favorites.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 5:50 PM. Reason : asd]

6/15/2009 5:49:53 PM

You guys are such whiny bitches over Rossi. Get the fuck over it.

If I were good enough to play at the national level, I'd play for England, and not the US. I'm first generation English, and given the choice there's absolutely NO QUESTION who I'd represent. Take a call from Bob "College and MLS" Bradley, or Fabio fucking "Every team I have ever managed has won a title under me" Capello?

Bob "I won the US Open Cup against Part-timers" Bradley or Marcello "World Cup and UEFA Champions League winner" Lippi?

You'd do the same if you were any sort of real athlete. You play at the level of your teammates, and that causes you to push harder and play with and against the top level.

The US is not on the same level as any top European team. Why should Rossi play with shitty American players when he can play - and START I should add - with WORLD CHAMPION Italian ones instead? Because he was born on American soil? Bullshit.

6/15/2009 7:10:51 PM

6/15/2009 7:18:44 PM

^^ this is opening a much bigger argument but...

What you are saying is that you would choose your nationality over some guy that is coaching a fucking soccer team instead of your patriotism and true love for the place where you were born? I would hope that one's nationality would not be decided over whether one team is shitty and one isn't.

seems kinda shallow to me

flame on

6/15/2009 7:30:14 PM

In the case of Giuseppi Rossi, he obviously holds his Italian lineage and ancestry more dearly than the fact that he was born in the States.

Idealism trumps Patriotism every time.

Quote :

"I would hope that one's nationality would not be decided over whether one team is shitty and one isn't."

When you're an athlete, it is, and it should be, especially if your aim is to challenge yourself to be the best you can be.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM. Reason : and I would choose based on the liklihood of achieving athletic glory]

6/15/2009 7:42:03 PM

I disagree. How many games in a career does an actually star player compete for his national team? Not many in the grand scheme of things. Of course any American citizen worth a shit should want to play in Europe professionally (like you said, to play vs the best and be the best you can be), but no American worth a shit should play for another country.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 8:00 PM. Reason : d]

6/15/2009 7:59:23 PM

fair enough

I can only speak for myself but I am going to disagree with that last statement though. I'm a US citizen and nothing would mean more to me than to suit up for the US, shitty or not. It disturbs me that you said you would play for England first when, if the shoe was on the other foot and we were hella good and England was shitty you would want to play for us though. I wouldn't sell out my country in such a way.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 8:04 PM. Reason : ,]

6/15/2009 8:02:05 PM

So you go to Europe and play against and with top people - and come back and play with scrubs and losers?




No fucking way.

6/15/2009 8:03:45 PM

Haha, you're a little extreme.

Guess the bandwagon Man U stuff is starting to make a little more sense now.

That is a joke of course, but I'm honestly surprised you feel that way.



[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 8:06 PM. Reason : f]

6/15/2009 8:05:25 PM

FREDDY ADU

Where the fuck is Freddy??? WTF Bradley

6/15/2009 8:06:40 PM

Quote :

"In the case of Giuseppi Rossi"

Man U sold him with a buyback clause...can they buy him back at some point?

6/15/2009 8:43:47 PM

my family is brazilian. i was born american. who would i play for if i was good enough for both? fuckin brazil. unless the usa could prove to me they had a coach and desire to win anything, i would choose brazil everytime

6/15/2009 9:02:28 PM

i think rossi has a buyback clause of around 15 million euros or something, but i could be wrong.

6/15/2009 9:23:26 PM

FINAL SCORES (after 1 match)
South Africa (0:0) Iraq
Spain (5:0) New Zealand
Brazil (4:3) Egypt
USA (1:3) Italy

Group A standings:
#1 ESP 1-0-0, +5, 3pts
#2 RSA 0-1-0, +0, 1pt
#2 IRQ 0-1-0, +0, 1pt
#4 NZL 0-0-1, -5, 0pts

Group B standings:
#1 ITA 1-0-0, +2, 3pts
#2 BRA 1-0-0, +1, 3pts
#3 EGY 0-0-1, -1, 0pts
#4 USA 0-0-1, -2, 0pts

Next set of matches:
5 6/17 @ 10:00am: Spain v. Iraq
6 6/17 @ 2:30pm: South Africa v. New Zealand
7 6/18 @ 10:00am: USA v. Brazil
8 6/18 @ 2:30pm: Egypt v. Italy

6/15/2009 9:24:05 PM

Quote :

"So you go to Europe and play against and with top people - and come back and play with scrubs and losers?"

I don't think this is how Rossi was looking at it... I think he has a genuine connection to Italy and their national team and wanted to be a part of it.


What do you guys think about Camoranesi then? That dude doesn't even know the words to the Italian national anthem

6/15/2009 9:42:35 PM

^ Well yeah, I mean that is a given. I would play for England under the same reasoning. But I wouldn't forget that my goal of being a professional footballer would involve pushing myself at all levels - club and country.


I don't think it's a buyback clause, I think it's right of first refusal.


If Villareal get an offer for him and they want to accept it, they have to give Manchester United the ability to buy him at the same price, if they so choose.


and what's the deal with Camaronesi? I don't see any problem with him playing for Italy, either. He had the right, and they chose him before Argentina did. Argentina's loss.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 10:48 PM. Reason : .]

6/15/2009 10:47:36 PM

there are so many people besides rossi who you could argue about this

hargreaves couldve played for canada, england and maybe wales? not sure about wales but def the first 2.

isnt rooney as much irish as he is english too?

deco is full blooded brazilian but he is on the portuguese team.



i dont really find much wrong with playing for a different nationality. even that baseball crap they do in the preseason, doesnt alex rodriguez play for dominican republic or some shit? he seems pretty american to me.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 10:56 PM. Reason : edit]

6/15/2009 10:55:50 PM

Quote :

"doesnt alex rodriguez play for dominican republic or some shit? he seems pretty american to me. "

he played for the U.S in the first wbc and the dominican in the second but was hurt

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 11:03 PM. Reason : out with the hip]

6/15/2009 11:02:03 PM

Quote :

"and what's the deal with Camaronesi? I don't see any problem with him playing for Italy, either. He had the right, and they chose him before Argentina did. Argentina's loss."

He doesn't know/doesn't sing the Italian national anthem before games...

6/15/2009 11:02:30 PM

I guess the problem some see with it (including myself) is that it's a case of the rich getting richer.

6/15/2009 11:02:55 PM

im not sure if this was posted before, but poor howard webb cant stay out of refereeing controversy:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=655031&sec=global&cc=5901

6/15/2009 11:12:59 PM

At the start of the tournament, my expectation for the US team was to walk away 3rd in Group B with 4 points. That would require a W over Egypt and tie either Italy or Brazil. Starting with the L makes this look grim, but still do-able. Maybe if i get board on the off day tomorrow, I'll run a statistical analysis for the odds that USA can still place 1st or 2nd in group B. There are 81 different senarios remaining, but i'll have to take some time to work out the positive combinations (i'll have to ignore point differential for the time being).

6/15/2009 11:25:42 PM

Quote :

"jozy and bradley had great offensive chances but neither apparently cant kick with their left feet at the highest level of competition..."

Italy also could have had about 3 more goals if they could shoot too. What happened in Mexico City vs T&T the other night is very rare. Most shots from outside the box go sailing over the cross bar, or wide even when taken by the best players in the world.



As for the whole issue with Rossi, he was an Italian who happened to be born in America. It will be interesting to see everyone's reaction when the anchor babies all grow up and support their parents who illegally living the USA by playing soccer. I won't cry when they go back to Mexico and then return to Columbus to get destroyed by the USA in a qualifier.


As for yesterday's game, what did you expect? Italy is good. There is a reason that they won. They just played better in the end and their center midfield and center fullback's were better than ours. The red card just made things even tougher. They always have great talent and that is why they have 4 World Cup titles. Brazil and Germany also have more talent than the rest of the teams in the World. That is why they have multiple World Cup titles too.


In the end, Italy, Brazil, and Germany are the class of world soccer. I would consider England a B level team. They lose in the quarterfinals and can never win the World Cup, or Euro Cup. The USA and Mexico are what I would call a C level team. They can dream about being as good as Europe and Brazil, but they aren't, so the fans should not be shocked when they lose to better teams from CONMEBOL and UEFA. That's just reality.

[Edited on June 16, 2009 at 1:05 AM. Reason : .]

6/16/2009 1:05:09 AM

you must be an average fan...you clearly have no idea who italy is now...they are an aging team. the oldest in this competition. they needed a red card from the us just to gain an advantage...then needed wonder strikes just to get ahead...they really didnt create much until after the red. im not sure why anyone thinks they are good. they have no youth coming through the system to replace the old guys, they are turning into what portugal is becoming now, all that golden age era has gotten old and c. ronaldo cant carry that team.

buffon looked like a buffoon today, he is not even close to being one of the best keepers in the world.

Quote :

"Italy also could have had about 3 more goals if they could shoot too."

rossi would beg to differ...

Quote :

"What happened in Mexico City vs T&T the other night is very rare"

rossi, de rossi, and just about every team that plays the u.s. would beg to differ. (there are a ton of shots that go in from outside the box, you must not watch much soccer).



yes, rossi is an italian born in italy. im not sure why people are going nuts about it. its not like he couldve just left america where his italian parents lived and raised himself in italy...seriously guys.

Quote :

"As for yesterday's game, what did you expect? Italy is good. There is a reason that they won."

that reason being getting back in the game after a red card. foolish foul, prob a yellow, but since he tackled so high on the leg it can still be a red.

Quote :

"In the end, Italy, Brazil, and Germany are the class of world soccer. I would consider England a B level team"

england would beg to differ as they sit atop their group without losing...not even close to losing.

Quote :

"The USA and Mexico are what I would call a C level team. They can dream about being as good as Europe and Brazil, but they aren't, so the fans should not be shocked when they lose to better teams from CONMEBOL and UEFA. That's just reality."

mexico played well in 2002 and 2006 (recent times) they were just unfortunate both years as they ran into a very hot united states team in 02 and were beaten by an injury time(i think) goal of the tournament by maxi rodriguez. usa struggled in 06, but in terms of an overall comparison...the us, mexico and england have been about the same in the last 5-10 years, with england seemingly back on track with capello in the last year or so

/rant

[Edited on June 16, 2009 at 1:24 AM. Reason : edit]

6/16/2009 1:22:25 AM

^Argue all you want, but until England, USA, and Mexico can actually do more than lose out in the quarterfinals, or earlier at the World Cup, they can not be considered as elite as Germany, Italy, and Brazil. England is better than the USA, but I would say Italy, Germany, and Spain are probably better than them.

And who cares about the age? Italy is still more talented than the USA. Which one of the two teams has more players on some of the top teams in Europe? Toni had 14 league goals this year and most of our European players rode the bench this season. The ones that did play were playing for teams like Fulham and Rangers who are not as good as the top teams in Italy, England, Spain, and Germany. There is a reason some of their players play for the big clubs and ours don't (The Italians are more talented). With that being said, I think we could have had a chance at a win, or tie if we didn't have a red card given to Clark.

6/16/2009 2:25:08 AM

^^i don't exactly buy the argument that italy is an aging team. they are three years removed from winning the world cup (and even you are using 2006 as a marker for measuring mexico's relative worth). and you claim that they have no youth coming through their system? rossi scored two goals yesterday, and he's only 22. How much younger does he have to be? besides, whenever you have someone like pirlo creating opportunities for people (like the last goal) a strikers age doesn't really matter.

as for the game, i'm not going to cry about the red card. was it harsh? yes. but so was the penalty in the box against italy that resulted in yet another landy-cakes goal. jozi sold that one.

this game should have probably been 2-0 italy. the de rossi goal was the most telling goal of our play. dis-organized in the back, a goal should never go through that much traffic and in the net unless their is a deflection. complete lack of communication on the back line, and howard was left trying to predict the direction of a ball coming at him through a picket-fence of poor marking. especially after the first rossi goal, the back line should have known not to give any striker an open look from 25 yards in.

and i have to admit that i've never been very impressed with luca toni on the international level. he had a few chances today, one nice block from howard, and one header that he should have made a better touch on. i feel like he can do wonders for bayern, but always comes up an inch short on the international level against quality opposition.

and i'll throw in my two cents for nationality. whichever country you call home, whichever country you would fight for - if it came to that - is the country you lace up with.

[Edited on June 16, 2009 at 2:52 AM. Reason : luca]

6/16/2009 2:47:22 AM

Quote :

""and what's the deal with Camaronesi? I don't see any problem with him playing for Italy, either. He had the right, and they chose him before Argentina did. Argentina's loss.""

eh, to me it waters down the meaning of international play and the World Cup if you're just haphazardly selecting dudes that don't give two shits about your country (not even bothering to try to learn the words to the national anthem) but only because they're good and their "other" country didn't pick them first. It's a bunch of mercenary bullshit.

6/16/2009 7:54:59 AM

JTMONEYNCSU just has an inexplicable hatred for all things italy...he needs to step back and see the greatness

disclaimer: i don't expect italy to win this thing...but still



[Edited on June 16, 2009 at 8:37 AM. Reason : ]

6/16/2009 8:37:12 AM

I defend Rossi's choice to play for Italy. The kid is full blood Italian, who just happened to not be born there.

What I hate is players like Roger Guerreiro playing for a team like Poland. And I'm a Poland fan. And admit that they suck and are better with him. But it completely cheapens the idea of the World Cup. He became a naturalized citizen of Poland in 2008. It's not like he moved there for any other reason than to play football.

Anyway, that's my take.

6/16/2009 6:28:54 PM

Quote :

"EDUARDO FOR CROATIA"

6/16/2009 8:19:29 PM

That's another.

6/16/2009 9:43:36 PM

Quote :

"8 6/18 @ 2:30pm: Egypt v. Italy"

conflict of interest here I was born in Egypt but my dads family is from Italy. Although I have always been a die hard Italian fan...but never thought i'd have this line up to worry about.


ok i just skimmed this thread but is someone actually defending the USA as a serious team? lol. Now I remember why I don't even post in sports talk. Soccer is the only sport I give a shit about and talking about it with idiots like that just take the fun out of it. Although I have seen quite a few people in here who do know wtf they are talking about so kudos to them.

[Edited on June 16, 2009 at 9:52 PM. Reason : .]

6/16/2009 9:45:57 PM

we are a serious team, if it would have been a fair game we had a great chance of beating italy (in the last world cup too) and theyre the world champions. we don't have elite talent yet, but we definitely have the talent to compete with any team in any game. It's been a while since i've watched a usa game and thought that we didn't have a chance against the team we were playing.

bradley is an infuriating coach though. he's becoming more and more like bruce arenas.

6/16/2009 10:14:46 PM

Quote :

"great chance of beating italy (in the last world cup too"

lol really? I mean did you even watch that game from the last world cup? The only chance the USA had was an accidental own goal on italy. If you consider that a 'chance' at winning then sure... everyone has that same chance.

As others have said...USA is a C team at best.

Quote :

"if it would have been a fair game"

And I have yet to see a game thats called fairly or in Italy's favor so don't even bring that bullshit in here. People seem to hate on Italy for no reason and refs seem to be biased against them as well.

[Edited on June 16, 2009 at 10:36 PM. Reason : .]

6/16/2009 10:34:34 PM

i'm sure it has nothing to do with the diving that they are notorious for

6/16/2009 10:40:38 PM

Quote :

"lol really? I mean did you even watch that game from the last world cup? The only chance the USA had was an accidental own goal on italy. If you consider that a 'chance' at winning then sure... everyone has that same chance."

did you watch the game?

best US performance since the Germany game in WC 2002

6/16/2009 10:43:40 PM

that was a bullshit red card and you know it. we tied italy last world cup, and we were down a man, 9v10. thats not luck. it didn't help that de rossi knocked out our best striker at the time, brian mcbride, with a cheap ass elbow.

italy is full of divers, and they have always been known for diving because they do it all the time. if you can't see that, then you are blind.

im sorry to disagree with you, and maybe its my nationality bias, but the usa is not a C team by any means at all. we are up there on the level of any highly competative national team. We may not have the international superstars like c.ronaldo, messi, or torres, but we always have a competative squad.

6/16/2009 10:50:27 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcCw9RHI5mc

6/16/2009 10:52:14 PM

^^And that squad tends to come close, but fail to win. Almost doesn't count in sports.

[Edited on June 16, 2009 at 10:52 PM. Reason : .]

6/16/2009 10:52:20 PM