Ok.... really.... ads?! I'd rather pay for the damn app then have to see an add every time I want to play a game/whatever. I was kind of excited for apps but screw it now.

9/17/2009 2:56:01 PM

Do we know if the ads are mandatory for every app? Do free apps you get with the iphone not have any ads?

9/17/2009 3:13:22 PM

^the iPhone doesn't force you to watch an ad. Thats all on the developer if they want to have ads or not. And the ads are non intrusive. its just a another row in a list.

I'd think twice about iPhone apps if everytime I launched an app I had to watch a 30 second ad served by apple.

9/17/2009 3:21:13 PM

I have apps on the iPhone that run a full screen ad before it starts.

I'm sure the basic concept is the same on both the iPod Touch/iPhone and the Zune; the Zune is probably just worse at it at the moment since it's still new.

9/17/2009 3:30:22 PM

^but thats the developers choosing. You can just as easily not use that particular app. But it sounds like with the Zune its forced on the app.

9/17/2009 3:36:30 PM

Quote :

"But it sounds like with the Zune its forced on the app."

And you're coming to this conclusion how? In fact, it has been shown that some of the apps do not have an ad attached to them. Was there an ad when the engadget dude launched the calculator?

9/17/2009 3:41:54 PM

it's funny that nobody is up in arms about the ads at the launch of your favorite video on Hulu

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 3:48 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 3:43:41 PM

Quote :

"no buddy"

9/17/2009 3:46:32 PM

haha, i'm on drugs

9/17/2009 3:48:24 PM

Or at the top and bottom of this page. But seriously, 7 games at launch with ads in them != "you will have to watch an ad before every app you run".

9/17/2009 3:48:58 PM

Quote :

"And you're coming to this conclusion how? In fact, it has been shown that some of the apps do not have an ad attached to them. Was there an ad when the engadget dude launched the calculator?"

hence why I asked, ass, on the previous page. because from what I read in the review...you do have ads before every app except for one or two apps.

9/17/2009 3:56:54 PM

I'll be getting one of these eventually.

Hopefully the internet app will be improved by then.

9/17/2009 4:12:03 PM

from Gizmodo:

Quote :

"This is a serious surprise, after seeing the similar Sony X-Series's browser crash, burn, and then explode shards of awful all over me, but the Zune HD's internet browser is awesome. The narrower 3.3-inch widescreen isn't as spacious as that of the iPod Touch and pages definitely load a little slower, but besides that it's a full-featured, fast and responsive browser. The accelerometer is very quick, panning is smooth and easy, and the standard multitouch gestures (pinch, drag) work nicely. Unfortunately, the Zune HD does not support YouTube or any other Flash video, which would have been a nice feature for quickly listening to new music."

from CNET:

Quote :

"Speaking of Wi-Fi, the Zune's new Web browser smokes. Not since first using the iPhone have I been this impressed with a mobile web browser. There's no branding on the browser, but I was told it was cooked up by Microsoft's Internet Explorer team... Page load was snappy, and pinching and reorienting pages work just like the iPhone and iPod Touch."

from Engadget:

Quote :

"Beyond the application situation, there's also the small matter of the web browser which the Zune HD ships with. Built upon the existing mobile Internet Explorer, but sufficiently tweaked, we found it to be mildly useful, though sorely lacking in key features. It's clear that Microsoft had some trepidation about putting anything too robust out there. The browser renders pages nicely and utilizes pinch zooming like a champ, but there are no tab options, no history, and hardly any navigational elements at all. Additionally, the performance on page loading and rendering wasn't even in the same league as most webkit-based mobile options (Android browser, iPod touch / iPhone, Pre). Forget about YouTube or other rich media as well -- it's just not happening here. On the plus side, the included on-screen keyboard is surprisingly accurate, and we're not-so-secretly hoping that we see this QWERTY pop up on future Windows Mobile devices -- it's actually quite good. But good keyboards notwithstanding, at the end of the day the browser is still barebones... no matter how smoothly it renders pages"

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 4:17:51 PM

I don't know, I was just going by what I read.

Egadget was talking about how it was slower to load pages and how it's basically impossible to use youtube.

That's basically what I meant, the no flash video, I hope that's changed and not a hardware limitation.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:24 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 4:22:06 PM

Quote :

"Golovko: ~1500 songs "

At $1 per song that would equate to 8 years and 4 months of unlimited music with a Zune Pass subscription and you would still get to keep 1000 songs when all was said and done.

9/17/2009 11:58:00 PM

^That was the only reason i was interested in a zune when it first came out because it was subscription based. But at the time I ran into the problem that it wasn't supported for Vista and so I had to return the zune after a week of playing with it. Now I have the same problem except its not supported for Mac. haha /fail

9/18/2009 9:04:28 AM

Vista had full Zune support by launch so I guess you caught the 1-2 months of no support in RC/RTM. Have to think Mac support is coming. I know their market share is small on a global scale but we've all seen the college/laptop stats and know how Mac-users are avid consumers of high-end products.

9/19/2009 3:40:39 AM

they've got a good base. now they need a browser that doesn't suck and a better sdk. perhaps precache bins or something for better app load time. I'm sure when it's that mature (or before) they'll make a phone. I will own said phone.

9/19/2009 11:54:46 AM

i bought one and returned it.
the lack of video formats was a turn-off for the time being

i still have my old school creative player but i liked the screen on the zune, the responsiveness of the UI, everything. it's really up there competing with the iTouch. but until it can do more video formats, i'll wait it out. hopefully they come out as updates...

9/24/2009 8:55:54 PM

i played with one at best buy and was pretty underwhelmed. i liked the form factor and the screen was excellent, but the UI i didn't really like. i could probably get used to it, but it wasn't the experience i was expecting

Quote :

"t's funny that nobody is up in arms about the ads at the launch of your favorite video on Hulu"

Quote :

"Or at the top and bottom of this page"

do you pay for hulu or tww? if i paid for something and still have to see ads, that's pretty crappy. i don't have to watch an apple ad every time i turn on my iphone, i don't have to watch a microsoft ad when i turn on my PC.

[Edited on September 24, 2009 at 9:23 PM. Reason : .]

9/24/2009 9:20:55 PM

i thought only some free apps would have ads. you did pay for your computer.

9/24/2009 9:29:18 PM

i don't know anything about how the ads on zune work. i was just saying that Prospero and disco_stu were comparing ads on free products to ads on paid products

9/24/2009 9:33:43 PM

everything i've read relating to ads on the Zune point to a) ads are on games only b) ads are on free games only

so it's no different than hulu, you don't pay for that.

10-30s ad before free game
10-30s ad before free streaming video

[Edited on September 24, 2009 at 10:21 PM. Reason : .]

9/24/2009 10:20:42 PM

Quote :

"everything i've read relating to ads on the Zune point to a) ads are on games only b) ads are on free games only"

ok that makes sense. i thought the discussion was around ads native to the zune itself

9/24/2009 11:05:26 PM

Quote :

"but the UI i didn't really like. i could probably get used to it, but it wasn't the experience i was expecting"

Curious what your expectation was? As for being underwhelmed, the Zune is all about content. So if you didn't spend much time in the content, you really didn't experience the device. Unfortunately the app content is pretty much non-existant.

Quote :

"i bought one and returned it. the lack of video formats was a turn-off for the time being"

No one bitched about this on the iDevices. A billion mp4 video converters flooded the market.

For the Zune it's even easier. Go get the free Windows Media Encoder, or Expression Encoder. Setup a drag and drop cmdlet, and done. There's not really a *need* for more video formats, other than maybe an argument for 4CC containers (divx, xvid and mp4) which I'm sure will come sooner than later.

9/25/2009 7:14:53 AM

Quote :

"As for being underwhelmed, the Zune is all about content."

Its lacking in content as is. It should also be about UI/UX.

9/25/2009 8:51:47 AM

^i think what he meant was it's all about the HD & 3D games, if you didn't play with it on a big screen or if you didn't play with the video, pictures, music to see how it plays, you may not have gotten the full experience... which i think coincides with the UI/UX

9/25/2009 10:43:42 AM

I don't see that seeing an HD video on the Zune screen will be any different then watching a movie on an iPhone. The screens are just too small to make a difference. The only benefit I see of that is connecting it to an HD TV.

9/25/2009 11:16:48 AM

no it won't, but it will look better because of the OLED screen.

and yea, i think that's the point, you wouldn't see the full benefit (like i said) unless you saw it plugged into an HDTV, something you can't do with the iPhone/iPod Touch

[Edited on September 25, 2009 at 12:06 PM. Reason : /]

9/25/2009 12:05:31 PM

i thought iphone had a video out mode? just nobody uses it (just like nobody will use zune's video out either)

9/25/2009 12:22:31 PM

yea you can get a dock with video out.

9/25/2009 1:04:07 PM

^and you can also get a cable for video out without the doc. Thats how i have my iPhones video out hooked to my cars in-dash LCD screen.

also just to be clear. HD videos don't actually play in HD on the Zune incase anybody thought otherwise.

[Edited on September 25, 2009 at 1:09 PM. Reason : .]

9/25/2009 1:08:41 PM

Evidently, a lot of Zune originals orders have been delayed quite a bit. Hope it's sorted out by Christmas, which can't get here quick enough...

9/28/2009 11:11:43 PM

Question:

Can the Zune HD output content that's being streamed to it via the Video Out or does the video have to be on the Zune itself?

9/28/2009 11:22:02 PM

Quote :

"No one bitched about this on the iDevices. A billion mp4 video converters flooded the market. For the Zune it's even easier. Go get the free Windows Media Encoder, or Expression Encoder. Setup a drag and drop cmdlet, and done. There's not really a *need* for more video formats, other than maybe an argument for 4CC containers (divx, xvid and mp4) which I'm sure will come sooner than later."

i don't own an iDevice for this same reason, and others.

i know it's easy to convert but the sheer time needed to convert the shit i would want to watch on the go (latest downloaded stuff) - 700mb-1.2gb mkvs or 4-9gb mkvs - would make it inconvenient. i'd rather just get something that can play the mkvs without any hassle. i know the resolution on the thing is so low that the mkv and HD wouldn't even show up, but that's the format that much of the stuff i want to view is in, and it would just take too long to convert whatever i wanted to watch. i want to be able to throw a file on there and go catch my flight to jet off to wherever i'm going, without having to pre-plan exactly what i want to watch 2-3 days before i fly. usually it's tv shows from the night(s) before my trip or whatever is left in my "To Watch" folder - and that changes every day...

9/29/2009 12:32:35 AM

^I don't think they'll ever support MKV. But this isn't the thread to tell you why MKV's suck.

9/29/2009 11:17:14 AM

The reasoning that you can just convert video files is retarded. It's not like we're asking for a Beta+VHS+Laserdisc+DVD+BluRay+Holograph player; it's software, add the codec and call it a day. Kthx.

9/29/2009 11:23:46 AM

mkv is a container not a codec, they shouldn't support it.

but they should support Xvid & x264

9/29/2009 11:34:11 AM

And why shouldn't they support a container?

9/29/2009 11:36:53 AM

i'm not saying because it's a container, i'm saying because MKV sucks ass.

if you have MKV, just transcode it to MP4 compliant h264 avi, it will make life so much easier and it's so much widely accepted upon standard, standalone, and embeded players

errata on my previous post, the Zune HD DOES support H264, just not Xvid.

point being there's no good reason TO support mkv, there are better more standard containers out there.

[Edited on September 29, 2009 at 12:21 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2009 12:08:18 PM

I'm not debating the quality/wrapper method, I just disagree that people should have to rewrap stuff.



[Edited on September 29, 2009 at 12:13 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2009 12:13:17 PM

Quote :

"this isn't the thread to tell you why MKV's suck."

9/29/2009 12:15:08 PM

because AVI, WMV, MP4 are standard wrappers, mkv is not, only among HD torrents & the pirate community.

^the quality & the compatibility are the main reasons why mkv shouldn't be supported

[Edited on September 29, 2009 at 12:18 PM. Reason : ,]

9/29/2009 12:16:58 PM

all the actual reviews of the consumer hardware (not a trade show) say that the internet browser on those things suck for a wide variety of reasons.

plus this area of the market seems to be rapidly shrinking to either all inclusive devices (iphone, blackberry et), or super specialist ones (ipod nano, shuffle, and other small music players)

9/29/2009 3:50:38 PM

how long does it take to transcode an mkv to mp4? everything i read up on in the past 15-20 minutes on Google suggests there still isn't a very fast option for it - all of them require re-encoding because mkvs created using the high profile don't play nice on portable media players.

9/29/2009 4:00:19 PM

~15-20min.?

On Mac:
"With QT & Perian 1.x, I can open the .mkv file in Quicktime. Then I export as MPEG-4 (H.264) using "passthrough" (i.e. it doesn't reencode)."

On linux:
"Extract the individual streams from an MKV file with mkvextract, then create MP4 with mp4box (which is contained in the package gpac)."

Windows:
"ffmpeg -y -i test.mkv -pass 1 -f mp4 -vcodec h264 -r 23.976 -sameq 10 -acodec aac -ab 128k -ar 44100 -ac 2 ~/Desktop/test.mp4"

9/29/2009 4:13:07 PM

^Yep, I've reencoded MKV to MP4 several times, perf on my machine was disk limited, not CPU limited.

9/29/2009 7:14:05 PM

had to modify your command to libx264 for vcodec and libmp3lame for acodec because it said x264 and aac were unknown

i started 14 minutes ago - only 121 MB written to the new mp4 file from the 4.37 GB mkv file - i don't think it's going to finish anytime soon. i'm using my laptop and it's a 5400rpm drive probably, but still, at this rate, it seems it would take around 8 hours to finish - no?

and this thing can't play xvid either?!

anyways, i went and bought it again and i think i'm going to keep it because it has the 32gb capacity, and looks sexy and small. so what converters do you recommend for me? i need to play xvid and mkvs on it and would like the conversion to be fast (don't care about filesize - i'll have enough free space, and don't care about outputting to HD TVs or whatever at the moment)

[Edited on September 30, 2009 at 8:44 PM. Reason : .]

9/30/2009 8:31:04 PM

If it's taking 8 hours, you are reencoding the video. You should be able to just remux the video into a mp4 container, and recode the audio, which should be lightning quick on a modern system. Doing this on a value laptop is not a good idea. For xvid, your gonna have to transcode it to wmv for now, but that should be straightforward using WME or expression encoder. You can set up a batch script to convert the files as they are downloaded, so it just happens automatically

10/1/2009 11:41:28 AM

b/c you know, the average consumer is gonna bother doing any of that...

face it, the average shlub is a moron, especially when it comes to tech stuff. apple has made a very simple very easy to use device that pleases said moron, thus moron buys it.

the % of the market that is dictated by performance and such is so small by comparison it might as well be inconsequential, and face it, that's about all this device is going to appeal to really.

technical win
fiscal fail

[Edited on October 1, 2009 at 3:24 PM. Reason : s]

10/1/2009 3:22:42 PM