In response to JJ ...

It depends on what kind of job you are applying for ... if you are applying for a more business focused position, then you are probably worth less ... if its an IE position that does not require you to be business savvy ... then again ... probably not worth any more.

I think the dual major part will help you more if you try to move UP in an IE role towards management, but probably wont get you any more as entry level.

7/30/2010 11:08:48 AM

Let's not talk about how much I make as a research tech . However my boyfriend works in the engineering dept. at Duke, and is my sugar daddy floating me through nursing school. Even as a good ole RN without a MSN, I should make way more than now.

7/30/2010 12:59:34 PM

I went from making 51K in 2006 to making around 40K now

7/30/2010 2:01:38 PM

[sarcasm]You should just be thankful you have a job, not complaining that you're making 40k a year, you bourgeois pig![/sarcasm]

7/30/2010 2:30:55 PM

just found out I got a 50 cents raise for the year. Yay I guess.

7/30/2010 2:47:42 PM

ITT, PE's making $35k and new IE grads making $60k...

7/30/2010 3:31:58 PM

lol at school teachers complaining about the salaries of people that are just plain smarter than they are

7/30/2010 4:14:21 PM

Reading this just underscores the fact that, while I'm happy I have a job and can put food on the table and keep a roof over my head, I should have been an engineer. I'd been out of school for more than 3 years before I saw $40K. IT pay isn't bad, but especially on the support side where I am, it's not wonderful either.

Usually state employees are wondering over the summer months what the across the board salary adjustment is going to be...in previous years it would be how big the raise or raise + vacation was going to be (to put in in perspective with private industry 4% was considered really good, 2% plus an extra vacation week fair) whereas last year it was how big the cut would be. This year has been curiously silent; I suppose that means we'll get nothing and like it. Better than a cut again, I guess.

7/30/2010 5:21:58 PM

Found out this week that, even though I'm in a senior role on my team, and have a CCIE, to go along with 5 years of experience ... College New Hires (Entry Level in our organization) are coming in at higher pay than I am currently making.

I think my days in this job are numbered though ... as that is just the icing on the cake that has firmed my commitment to take my services elsewhere ... And the sinking ship is going down a little faster

7/31/2010 12:41:24 AM

damn, that's just not right. find you a better job son

7/31/2010 8:21:03 AM

^^ same thing was happening at one of my companies (and i assume it happens a lot of places)

people found out, and they had to do a massive salary re-leveling project with an outside consulting firm to prevent total mutiny.

7/31/2010 9:17:30 AM

Its probably too late for our team ... in the past 4 months, the 5 most senior out of 15 have already left, and the other 5 of the most senior are in the process of leaving ...

Whats gonna be left is a pile of new contractors and employees with < 3 years experience ... and 1 old dude.

[Edited on July 31, 2010 at 10:23 AM. Reason : .]

7/31/2010 10:22:27 AM

Yeah, that really sucks when a new guy can make more than someone that has been established there for a while. I figure that larger companies know better and that's why they have Engineer I/II/III/IV etc. Each comes with a base level of pay and ensures that a new Engineer I coming out of college will not make the same as an Engineer III that has 5 years experience.

7/31/2010 10:35:33 AM

^ yea that's how ours is set up. would really suck otherwise. Of course there is a range and not a set salary for each title that allows for location, PE license bonus etc.

7/31/2010 10:44:05 AM

^ Right. Our pay is 80-120% of the base level rate, based on performance and extra certificates/qualifications.

7/31/2010 10:50:29 AM

I spent from February '09 to February '10 unemployed until I was hired at my old company in the same mechanical engineering position - albeit part time 30+ hrs/week status. I took a 12% pay cut. Once my workload became worthy of a full time position (after 3 months), I got a 25% pay increase and am now making an industry competitive wage.

Thankfully, the company I work for also has an Engineer I/II/III status.

7/31/2010 12:46:17 PM

At the company I work for, you have to leave the company and be rehired to make more than the HR limit for a raise.

The max they will approve for a raise is 6k every 12 mos. To be offered more (or just get the industry standard - if it has changed), you have to leave your current position, then be rehired in the same or different position (which is very possible - if you wanted to keep working there).

How stupid is that? Why play games?

7/31/2010 2:46:20 PM

^ I figure that a lot of the craziness that goes with that is well known by management and it probably serves a particular purpose (Legal/HR related). As dumb as it might be, there's no good way to change it since the stupid rules are probably there to avoid getting sued.

7/31/2010 2:55:17 PM

I went from making $46,000 in 2006 to $78,000 in 2009.

7/31/2010 4:22:56 PM

Yeah, we do have engineer I,II,III,IV,V status ... new college hires into our area start off at Eng II, right now with an average of 73k out of college ... When I started, the same Eng II position was 64k(a little over 4 years ago).

I am at Eng III, and have been promoted/gotten raises to get me to that same level as our new college hires are coming in at...

Still ... its ridiculous.

7/31/2010 9:46:44 PM

why the hell would new college grads start at an Eng. II level? who is an Eng. I?? People with only a 2 year degree or no degree?

My company "requires" 3 years of industry experience to be an Eng. II.

[Edited on July 31, 2010 at 11:27 PM. Reason : k]

7/31/2010 11:26:29 PM

^^ sounds like that title and pay structure at your company is all kinds of messed up I can't think of any reason all new college grads would start out at Eng II...why do you even have Eng I?

We have: Associate Engineer I, II, III which are all pre-PE certification

After you are PE certified you move into: Engineer I, II, III and then into Senior Engineer I,II,III if you stayed in the engineering side.

I guess in some ways it is weird since if you applied to another company, you could possibly be listing your last title as "Engineer I" or something even though you had 4-5 years of experience and your PE ,but it makes sense internally.

All new college grads, even people with intern/co-op experience with our company, start out at Associate Eng. I, thus, unless you performed poor enough to never get a promotion or two in your first few years, it would be basically impossible for a new hire in your discipline at the same office to make more than you.

If they increase the entry level pay (ie Assoc. Eng. I), they also increase the pay of Ass. Eng II's and III's by the same percentage to keep them ahead of the new grads.

[Edited on July 31, 2010 at 11:41 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2010 11:40:38 PM

Anyone in here with a Master's in Economics, or know someone with one?

Any idea what their starting sal was?

I finished up in Dec. 2008 and am curious about where I stand. They had quoted the average out of the program was 65 at the time, but I had no experience so I was happy with what I was offered, but, 1.5 years later and I've yet to get a raise.

8/1/2010 12:15:43 AM

[Edited on August 1, 2010 at 12:17 AM. Reason : ]

8/1/2010 12:15:43 AM

i have a major in econ and have been at bofa since 2006

8/1/2010 12:17:55 AM

Its all about the pay scale...

Some engineering positions are for the 40-60k range, and thus, are Eng I positions. Since that range does not match, they bumped college new hires up to a higher scale (8 years ago, they WERE hiring new college hires in at Eng I, and went through the same fiasco when they changed it and started hiring people as II's). Its a pretty competitive process to get in as a college new hire, so, they feel like they are worth the upfront investment. We dont hire anyone from less than research I institutions, or from 2 year degrees/technical schools, so thats why we dont start them as Eng I.

8/1/2010 1:53:31 PM

I guess it works for them. I mean I understand that there are variations in the pay scale that need to be accounted for, but that is why you attach ranges to a title. Also, I thought it would be obvious, but I didn't include discipline in front of what I listed earlier. For example, there are separate titles for Mechanical - Associate Engineer I vs Chemical or Civil at the same level and yes each have their own pay ranges.

What you just described seems to be a very confusing way to do things. Having to bump people up in title simply to account for poorly structured pay scales just gets things all kinds of backwards when trying to track and compare technical growth within the company.

Our titles are based on experience and performance and certifications. In general, if I am a Mechanical Associate Engineer III, I should be on the same level experience and quality-wise versus someone from our California office with the same title. Yes they will make more money than me due to locality but it would be silly for them to get a "promotion" in title just to account for the money difference. Makes it very transparent within the company and you never wind up upside-down such that new hires are making more than the people with 2-3 years experience.

Without knowing anything else I definitely cannot blame you for not being happy there. That just seems like a company with extremely poor HR.

[Edited on August 1, 2010 at 2:07 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2010 2:05:44 PM

Quote :

"That just seems like a company with extremely poor HR."

Exactly ... and management that doesn't care enough to push to get the problem fixed.

8/1/2010 6:34:43 PM

^At least they promote you to keep you at the recent college graduate income levels. At the very least your new title might help you get more money should you move on to a new job.

Imagine how it would be if they didn't make attempts to increase salary and let recent college graduates earn as much as 10-15% more than people they hired right out of college 4-5 years ago. Doesn't help that they pay a good 30-40% under industry to begin with.

[Edited on August 2, 2010 at 7:26 AM. Reason : -]

8/2/2010 7:20:41 AM

Quote :

"i have a major in econ"

8/2/2010 7:26:18 AM

^^ thats exactly the problem though ... I had to earn all my promotions ... top 10% for the past 3 years, plus CCIE, plus buttloads of extra shite

Others on my team, who havent hit all the accomplishment checklists, but are still solid contributors, are making less than the new hires. One guy is better technically than I am, is one of our Leads, like I am, and is still making the same thing he came in with 3 years ago (65) ... as you can imagine, we are both looking to leave ASAP.

8/2/2010 8:38:30 AM

Just found out I got about a 15% raise, part of which was annual review and part of which was adjustment based on getting hired last year/keeping competitive with peers so they don't steal me away.

9/22/2010 1:04:31 PM

i am just waiting to be "stolen" away.

9/22/2010 7:34:08 PM

I graduated in Dec 2003 with Aero...got my masters in Dec 08 in Management..


Depending on how my yearly eval goes in Nov/and transfer from NSPS to GS....I will be right on the 6 figure mark!!

9/22/2010 9:01:30 PM

went up to $92/hour this year. independent consulting. BS ChE/BS Ch '02.

not sure if I can sustain this, as projects are not easy to find.

9/23/2010 11:26:28 AM

Yeah, I'm always tempted to give up full time status to do contract work, but I'd be too worried about finding enough projects.

9/23/2010 11:43:47 AM

^The way you have to look at it is …can you find a contract in 6 months once you are out of the current project? Typically you will almost double your salary by contracting IF you play the cards right, so for 6 months of contracting you will save just as much as you would by working 12 months full time. If you can work 6 months on a contract and then spend another 6 months vacationing and looking for another project, it is the same money as working 1 year. During the six months that you are looking for job, you can relax and kickback.

Granted you have to be willing to work anytime they ask, but if you don’t have family and are not bound by location it is the way to go. However, it is not for everyone. You have to have thick skin as contractors/consultants often get treated like dirt whether they deserve it or not. Once I have family I will have to exit this route as stability is not there.

9/23/2010 1:55:12 PM

Well, lets not forget about the healthcare issue if you are an independent. If you have a family, its going to really cut into your wage and thats if you can even get affordable coverage if there are problems.

also, you are double taxed for social security...

Of course, lots of other benefits, such as using tons of deductions.



[Edited on September 23, 2010 at 3:35 PM. Reason : .]

9/23/2010 3:31:04 PM

yep it is not for everyone, like i said. i pay $318 a month for health insurance for relatively good plan that has no annual deductible. add 10 years and couple of kids into the equation and you are looking at well over $1000/month just in health insurance.

quarterly taxes, finding a good accountant, getting your own liability/disability/health insurance, getting on approved vendor list, proposals, working 16hr days when needed, being diplomatic with client's retarded ideas...it all takes a toll on you and it is not for someone who just wants to kick back and do their 9-6 with few hrs of web surfing everyday.

9/23/2010 3:49:38 PM

Not to mention that you're paying for vacation/sick days

9/23/2010 9:41:35 PM

Yeah, that part sucked the most when I was a contractor. I get about 30 days off now each year, so that would take out a large chunk if I was paid hourly.

9/23/2010 10:52:27 PM

the longer you are with the company the worse off it is to become a contractor because of vacation accumulation.

...if you are paid $100k, accumulation of 30 days of vacation would roughly equate to $15k, med/disabil/life/dental/vision another $6k, 401k matching another $3k, if you are in bonus eligible position ..say another $8-15k. based on that you are looking at mid $130s just to match equivalent contractor position.

general rule of thumb though is that if equivalent full time position pays x amount, contract position should pay 2x amount (give or take depending on supply/demand and industry). in this case it would be $70k difference.
Full time: 100k+all benefits = mid 130s
contract: $95ish/hr=200s

I look at $70k difference as price for unemployment benefits/layoff package and stability that comes with full time positions. For some it is not worth it.

[Edited on September 24, 2010 at 8:24 AM. Reason : m]

9/24/2010 8:22:42 AM

what kind of contract work do you do where you are billable 40 hours a week all year long? I work 50-60 hours a week, but I'm only billable about 85% of the time. If I was self employed and had to handle administrative tasks like invoicing and bookkeeping, my billable time would be much lower - probably around 70% billable on a 60 hour workweek.

If I ever attempted to be self employed, I probably have to hire about 5-6 people immediately just so I could keep doing what I do. It seems like it would be more of a headache that I ever want to deal with.

[Edited on September 24, 2010 at 12:49 PM. Reason : there are other intangibles with my company that keep me there that are hard to put a price on]

9/24/2010 12:48:05 PM

biopharma engineering. at first it is a lot of work, but once you get a hang of it and figure out where to get correct information it becomes routine.

9/24/2010 1:36:13 PM

how do you get clients then? I spend a lot of my year entertaining clients, doing proposals, and just hunting down work in general. That's a lot of effort for every consulting engineer I know.

9/24/2010 3:55:38 PM

I work with a lot of contractors and sometimes get called for work at places where I did work before. Of course sometimes you subcontract and can't go always direct. I think it largely depends on industry too. What do you do?

9/24/2010 4:06:50 PM

I design and manage design/build projects on high voltage electrical systems for utilities and government installations. I get a lot of my government work through MACC and MATOC contracts, so I have to be a subcontractor on those projects. The other projects that I get from utilities are because I have a long history with them.

9/24/2010 7:00:09 PM