Based on the fact that in the credits they listed 2 separate actors/actresses that played his kids I would say that either he was the one who they tried to perform Inception on, or he did get back to reality at the end. If he is back in reality then I think Nolan wanted the kids in the same clothes and didn't show what ended up happening to the top just so people would realize that it doesn't matter what actually happened to Cobb, because he didn't really care anymore - he was finally happy and able to see his kid's faces again.

7/20/2010 5:23:24 PM

GG on the spoiler alert:x sucks for those cats. guess they shouldn't be surprised on page 4

7/20/2010 6:16:37 PM

Quote :

"Based on the fact that in the credits they listed 2 separate actors/actresses that played his kids I would say that either he was the one who they tried to perform Inception on, or he did get back to reality at the end."

That's a standard child acting law. They always use twins to play one character if they're below a certain age.

Quote :

"Claire Geare ... Phillipa (3 years) Magnus Nolan ... James (20 months) Taylor Geare ... Phillipa (5 years) Johnathan Geare ... James (3 years)"

Different ages, I guess. Were they older at the end vs the flashbacks?

7/20/2010 6:30:32 PM

AWESOME MOVIE! AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME!






***SPOILER***








I think it was a dream at the end. Did he ever get a kick out of limbo? I mean I feel like he died holding his wife after he finally let go of her emotionally, and then just sorta hit 'repeat' on limbo, waking up on the beach again. It never showed Seito shooting anyone at the end to induce a kick. Definitely a dream.

7/20/2010 9:30:34 PM

Quote :

" GG on the spoiler alert:x sucks for those cats. guess they shouldn't be surprised on page 4"

Meh. There were some non-spoiler alert posts on Page 3 too, and if you start reading a post that begins with something about the credits you should probably stop reading anyway. That link that was posted with an interview with the guy who played the chemist was pretty good, I liked his thoughts on the plot.

7/20/2010 9:50:53 PM

I didn't like that indian guy.

Reminded me of a fat mutant M. Night Shymalan.

7/20/2010 9:53:56 PM

^i think "the Hills" thread would more suit your interests

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 10:14 PM. Reason : and abilities]

7/20/2010 10:01:59 PM

^^^^ Although you can think it is a dream, I think it is implied they kicked out of Limbo both by the shot to the gun and then them both waking up on the airplane.

So I don't think the debate is did he and Seito get out of limbo.. he did find him and the assumption is they killed themselves and kicked to either reality, or an upper level of Cobb(or perhaps his wife or someone other) dream world... which it is is up to the person watching as there is evidence that supports both.

Also, and I think this caused some confusion, but I don't think he hit "reset" on limbo, but that the opening scene in the movie is the same scene at the end when he sees Seito as an old man.

Anyway just my thoughts.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 11:29 PM. Reason : 4^]

7/20/2010 11:29:35 PM

The opening scene is definitely a preview of the same last scene when he finds Saito in limbo, after Juno jumps off the building and kicks herself back up the levels. 100%. He sees Cobbs totem and it triggers that in his memory, well both of theirs actually. It doesn't appear Cobb exactly realizes where he is until Saito spins the top and they start chatting and remembering...

It was interesting for them to start the movie with that scene, then jump directly into the Coble engineering dream within a dream heist with normal age Saito that sets it all off...

7/21/2010 12:36:01 AM

Quote :

"and abilities"

come now, this thread is about a leonardo dicaprio summer blockbuster.... not some juvenile POS arthouse circlejerk movie that deliberately doesn't make any sense in an attempt to browbeat the audience into calling it "deep"

7/21/2010 7:29:44 AM

spoilers.












At this point, until i see it a second time, i'm going to assume that Cobb and Seito both made it back to reality on the plane. Especially in the final limbo scene when the shot moves to the gun. Then the next scene is Cobb waking up. I assume Seito shot Cobb in limbo giving him the kick back to reality and then turned the gun on himself. This is supported by Seito not waking up until a few seconds after Cobb.



Now something else that makes me curious is that throughout all these dreams they had these big suitcases open and everyone hooked up to them. But you don't see any of that in the final scene on the plane. So i'm curious if everyone besides Seito and Cobb kicked out and woke up and they had to pack the gear up before Fischer came too so that he wouldn't be suspicious. And with that being said, since Seito and Cobb were in limbo they no longer needed the sedative, thus the rest of the team just had to sit there and watch and hope?

I guess with the suitcase, it's always the dreamer who is in charge of it throughout the different layers. First layer the dreamer is the doctor, then Arthur, and finally Eames. They are in charge of the Kick to come out of and the "gear" to move on to the next dream layer. Obviously Ariadne had to improvise her Kick as did Cobb finally in limbo.



[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 8:45 AM. Reason : more confusion]

7/21/2010 8:38:59 AM

Quote :

"But you don't see any of that in the final scene on the plane. So i'm curious if everyone besides Seito and Cobb kicked out and woke up and they had to pack the gear up before Fischer came too so that he wouldn't be suspicious."

That is correct

Quote :

"And with that being said, since Seito and Cobb were in limbo they no longer needed the sedative, thus the rest of the team just had to sit there and watch and hope?"

Sure, sounds plausible. Of course, an alternate explanation is that in fact the gunshot didn't provide the kick... Remember, they said that killing someone while under that specific sedative would just kick someone deeper into limbo. They may have just woken up thousands of dream years later naturally as the sedative wore off.

7/21/2010 8:49:50 AM

ahh yes, this is true. But i know Cobb also said that spending that much time in limbo your brain would fry like an egg and they both seemed to realize where they were, again slightly supported by Seito grabbing the phone and sticking with his end of the deal. So i'm still leaning towards them bothing making it back safely. And obviously the ending world was way too constructed for it to have been another layer of limbo or anything. god i love films like this

7/21/2010 8:56:31 AM

^ Yea, I thought of that as a refuting factor to my little theory but maybe they are just that hardcore badass

7/21/2010 9:11:55 AM

7/21/2010 9:32:04 AM

How long till some idiots try inception and sedate themselves to death?

7/21/2010 4:40:06 PM

^ After a Chris Nolan film? Hmmmm...

7/21/2010 4:44:07 PM

oh shit

7/21/2010 4:46:37 PM

^5 I think they said that the sedative was only supposed to make it so killing yourself in a dream sent you into deeper layers up to the final kick (when the van hit the water). Then after that killing yourself in limbo (once you finally realized you were actually in limbo) would send you back out - similar to how Cobb and his wife were on the train tracks when Cobb convinced her that they were in limbo.

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 4:49 PM. Reason : TBDV]

7/21/2010 4:48:55 PM

Regarding the theory that the entire movie is an inception:
- Wouldn't they need a pretty heavy sedative to do a 6-level inception?
- If that's the case, wouldn't every time a person gets shot in the movie send them to limbo?

Maybe the dream starts when he visits the chemist the first time and tries his sedative. Does anyone get shot after that? (Other than Saito, obviously).

I also like that theory because it explains why he sees Mol there, and doesn't get the chance to check his totem. But there doesn't seem to be a good reason why the dream should start at that point. hmm

7/21/2010 5:22:56 PM

^but he does check his totem at the chemist's place right? He rushes into the bathroom and splashes water on his face and spins the totem and it topples to the floor of the bathroom.

7/21/2010 5:26:47 PM

^true, but it's not shown if it stops spinning.

7/21/2010 5:28:42 PM

^^ Yeah, he starts it spinning, but if I remember correctly Saito barges into that room and Cobb snatches the top up before it falls.

And then that's when he sees Mol through the curtains.

7/21/2010 5:41:47 PM

One thought. SPOILERS

Correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't everyone assuming that the ends means either
a) the last scene is "reality"
OR
b) the entire film has been cobb in a dream

If the last scene is a dream, I don't think b) is necessarily true. Two reasons:

1. We all know cobb fucking loves sedative dreaming; he's on that shit like everyday. He could have left the inception job and entered another dream where the final scene takes place.

2. If the whole film is a dream, we never would have seen the top fall. At all. It did fall at least once right?

7/21/2010 6:20:02 PM

7/22/2010 8:57:44 AM

hahah these pics are bringing the funny

7/22/2010 9:26:46 AM

^

7/22/2010 10:59:54 AM

So yea this movie was great. The only thing that's ruining it is all the people asking me to explain parts about the movie that either 1) shouldn't need explaining because they're not important, 2) shouldn't need explaining because it's so critical to the movie there's no way you CAN'T know, 3) FUCKING SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF BITCH HOW HARD IS THIS FOR YOU TO GET DID YOU WATCH LORD OF THE RINGS AND THE WHOLE TIME YOU'RE WHINING ABOUT THE FEASIBILITY OF MIDDLE EARTH?

7/22/2010 3:07:11 PM

THEY NEVER EXPLAINED HOW THE DREAM MACHINE WORKS

7/22/2010 3:14:05 PM

^ It pumps midichlorians into your blood stream, duh.

7/22/2010 4:33:07 PM

The only thing I'm still confused about this movie, after reading this thread, is how the dreamers got linked...

It seems like they were all connected with cables of some sort and I know that a sedative was involved, but just wondering if I missed some sort of explanation during the movie of specifically how a dreamer could host an architect and other people's consciousnesses.... I know they talked a little bit about military research for boot camp, but that doesn't really explain it all.

7/22/2010 4:52:15 PM

A wizard casts a spell. Christ.

7/22/2010 4:53:56 PM

who fucking cares about that

7/22/2010 4:54:37 PM

xbox live.

7/22/2010 4:54:49 PM

Quote :

"So yea this movie was great. The only thing that's ruining it is all the people asking me to explain parts about the movie that either 1) shouldn't need explaining because they're not important, 2) shouldn't need explaining because it's so critical to the movie there's no way you CAN'T know, 3) FUCKING SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF BITCH HOW HARD IS THIS FOR YOU TO GET DID YOU WATCH LORD OF THE RINGS AND THE WHOLE TIME YOU'RE WHINING ABOUT THE FEASIBILITY OF MIDDLE EARTH?"

Why is framework such a difficult topic for people to grasp? A movie or television show or novel or any other work of fiction lays out a framework of what exists within the work of fiction. Be it angels, magic spells, dragons, or technologically induced dream states. You expect the work of fiction to adhere to this framework. Inconsistent frameworks is what makes a work of fiction difficult to believe, not the unbelievability of the content.

Which is why Lost sucked by the way.

7/22/2010 4:56:58 PM

Quote :

"Inconsistent frameworks is what makes a work of fiction difficult to believe, not the unbelievability of the content."

Yeah that reminds me... please correct me if I'm wrong, it may have just slipped my memory, but when they were in the third layer, Cobb and Juno hooked up to the dream machine but Fisher and Seito didn't, right? So I was thinking how Cobb and Juno made it to the same dream as them? Maybe it was because Fisher and Seito were "dead" and that somehow changed the rules? Or maybe because they were going to limbo and not another layer?

7/22/2010 5:05:13 PM

[Edited on July 22, 2010 at 5:07 PM. Reason : double post]

7/22/2010 5:06:49 PM

pretty much under normal circumstances and normal sedation if you die in the dream in reality you wake up.

but going some 3 layers deep and under that type of sedation if you die in any layer of these dreams you get thrown deep into limbo. Seito "died" in layer one, thus by the time Fischer and Cobb and Ariadne reached limbo he'd already been there for decades. Fischer "died" in layer three so he was only limbo for a short period of time before Cobb and Ariadne arrived to save him and bring him back. Cobb and Ariadne didn't go to a 4th layer, but to limbo. The way I took it, they were able to do this easily because Cobb had been there before and knew exactly where to take his subconscious to get there.

7/22/2010 7:26:28 PM

going to see this tonight at imax as long as it's not sold out ... if it is then i guess we'll see it in a regular theater

7/22/2010 7:33:47 PM

Quote :

"Yeah that reminds me... please correct me if I'm wrong, it may have just slipped my memory, but when they were in the third layer, Cobb and Juno hooked up to the dream machine but Fisher and Seito didn't, right? So I was thinking how Cobb and Juno made it to the same dream as them? Maybe it was because Fisher and Seito were "dead" and that somehow changed the rules? Or maybe because they were going to limbo and not another layer?"

The "layers" are defined places, they're "levels" constructed by the Architect and the Dreamer. The last and fourth destination of the climax scene is not another layer or section of subconsciousness, but "limbo", which is basically seen as space occupied by raw subconscious energy, which is a pretty common explanation for limbo in other works of fiction. There were no "rules" because it's a single shared pit of subconscious energy, NOT a place tied to one person.

I mean the dream progression itself wasn't a hard concept at all, it was just that executing it in such a way as to time all four levels is harder to understand visually:

0 - Real World (Airplane)
1st Level - Van/Kidnapping
2nd Level - Hotel
3rd Level - Mountain Fortress
4 - Limbo

Quote :

"You expect the work of fiction to adhere to this framework. Inconsistent frameworks is what makes a work of fiction difficult to believe, not the unbelievability of the content."

So your point is that my point is correct, yes? Because Inception laid a perfectly acceptable framework for suspension of disbelief by any standards.

7/22/2010 10:20:42 PM

Quote :

" he was finally happy and able to see his kid's faces again."

He could have stopped giving a shit and seen his kids faces again and been happy in limbo too, but it's OK if he's ignorant at the end that its a dream?

No, it's about Mal.


also, this movie adhered to it's rules wonderfully, stop talking about a film's framework like you're smart. The Dark Knight is a movie that does not follow its 'framework.'

[Edited on July 22, 2010 at 10:27 PM. Reason : .]

7/22/2010 10:26:10 PM

here is one thing i was discussing with someone yesterday. in several instances the team kept mentioning "getting back to the hospital", did anyone pick up on that? my friend thinks it was a flub in the screenplay/dialog, but Nolan is much smarter than that. what did we miss?

7/23/2010 7:56:28 AM

I noticed that, too... Maybe he was actually in limbo for so long he was in a hospital in a coma?

7/23/2010 8:29:39 AM

the "hospital" was a constructed level where the dude's dying father was... in the snow level, behind the vault

it is where the inception was to be finalized - that's why they were so interested in getting there.

[Edited on July 23, 2010 at 8:37 AM. Reason : ]

7/23/2010 8:36:40 AM

yea. I noticed the hospital as well. I just assume while watching it that it was some other dream level.

Does lend itself to think he is asleep.

But if he is asleep how is the token thing falling over.

[Edited on July 23, 2010 at 8:40 AM. Reason : fsd]

7/23/2010 8:39:44 AM

A+

7/23/2010 11:07:57 AM

i remember years ago Nolan talking about and making a short film on a concept where a man lives with his cancer ridden wife in a dream
but i cant find anything on it, anyone know about this?

7/23/2010 12:34:17 PM

I know you owe me five bucks, assface.

7/23/2010 12:35:57 PM

If it was all a dream, the token thing was created within that dream and would only spin within deeper dreams

7/23/2010 2:47:01 PM

^thats horseshit and you know it

7/23/2010 3:53:32 PM