oh snap... sounds like we need to have a QB1 Challenge!

11/30/2010 8:27:34 PM

or kick the kids off the team that cant follow through with the plays.

11/30/2010 8:36:36 PM

Quote :

"Odds are, you're only predicting "run play" or "pass play," which any football fan should be able to predict with > 50% success rate."

lol, get some.

11/30/2010 8:37:16 PM

Ok, I'll admit I don't call the plays to the degree of "Here's the run inside the left tackle coming up" or "it's time for the delayed option read (which is still bullshit, he's not doing any reads, he's just delaying and handing off, evidenced by the fact the he NEVER keeps the ball after the delay. On the plays where he keeps the ball he just fakes the hand off and runs)."

I can, however, call "up the middle," "sweep" (Or Dive... But I swear they pull a guard and send some blockers out to cover him on the those "dives" and I was pretty sure that made them sweeps. I can also call "screen" and "hail mary," and "tight end dump" So if we look at the plays like that I should have a 1/6 chance of calling it right, which is significantly less than 50%, which I beat sifnificantly, and which defenses can be successful against if they defensive coordinators can do even as decent a job as I do (and I'm sure they can).

[Edited on December 1, 2010 at 11:31 AM. Reason : ]

12/1/2010 11:31:01 AM

God dammit

What the fuck is a "delayed option read"

You guys have progressed past the point of missing calls, now you're just making shit up

Wilson doesn't ever keep the read option? Are you fucking kidding me?

Quote :

"On the plays where he keeps the ball he just fakes the hand off and runs"

THAT IS THE READ

Quote :

" Dive... But I swear they pull a guard and send some blockers out to cover him on the those "dives" and I was pretty sure that made them sweeps. "

HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY ARGUE SWEEPS VS. DIVES

JESUS

Quote :

" "tight end dump""

No playcaller ever calls a fucking dump pass to the tight end. That's the check down route, the safety valve, the fourth option when everyone else is covered. If you think Dana Bible is calling plays where the #1 options is a five yard dink, you need to get the fuck out of here now.

12/1/2010 2:59:08 PM

i'm with Ernie

i mean, did you see that atlanta braves thread he made

12/1/2010 3:03:36 PM

If Ernie wasnt such an annoying bitch troll I would almost be proud of him right now

12/1/2010 3:06:29 PM

eleusis is a moron.

Quote :

"eleusis All American 20126 Posts user info edit post if they didn't formally sign anyone, then they didn't recruit anyone. That is, after all, the definition of recruit. 1/6/2008 2:32:52 PM"

Quote :

"eleusis All American 20126 Posts user info edit post If you recruit someone, you've formally signed them. look it up if you're that ignorant. 1/6/2008 2:35:49 PM"

12/1/2010 3:15:20 PM

these past 2 pages have reminded me of the golden age of ST

it almost warms my heart a little bit

(although I'll admit that the rest of the thread is everything that is wrong with ST these days)

12/1/2010 3:21:37 PM

12/1/2010 3:24:35 PM

the real question is, will eleusis post in this thread again?

12/1/2010 3:26:35 PM

Nah, he only visits Sports Talk 6 times a year to "check game scores".

12/1/2010 3:34:38 PM

Quote :

"I'll carve an excel spreadsheet into my dick"

this made me LOL hard

12/1/2010 3:36:05 PM

I keep hoping that HOOPS MALONE will post itt

12/1/2010 3:40:46 PM

Also want to berate that son of a gun for saying he calls hail marys correctly

REALLY

Five wide, three seconds left and you got the play call right?

Amazing

12/1/2010 4:26:46 PM

Quote :

"the real question is, will eleusis post in this thread again? "

why wouldn't I? I wasn't the one who doesn't understand a sweep play. I complained that we run too many dive and draw plays. Ernie confirmed my dive complaint, and if he'd make a spreadsheet of the Clemson game then he'd confirm my draw complaint.

I'm not the one complaining that I can predict the play calling. The only thing I can predict with regularity is shitty tackling and blown pass coverage.

12/2/2010 4:43:11 PM

Schooled but still yapping. Your persistent stupidity is entertaining. Thanks for that.

12/3/2010 7:04:42 AM

There is no fucking read. Russel doesn't spend any time looking at the field before he does those plays, he runs backwards and looks at the guy he's giving the ball to. Either he does if that's the call, or he doesn't. It's like setting up a play action pass; there is no read, RW doesn't decide whether or not to hand the ball off during those. Either it's a play action set up run (a draw), or he knows before hand he's going to fake the hand off and pull up for a pass... Just like he does with those keepers he rolls out on.

And we run a lot of fuckin draws. And we run some dives, but we run a lot of fuckin draws. The point is that they're the same god damn thing in two different scenarios.

I could tell you with great results whether we were going up the middle (be it a draw up the middle or a dive, which are the fuckin same) or around the edge (which we did a lot with SWEEPS). I could also tell you whether we were passing down field (which we did at completely inappropriate times) and I could tell you when we were running those quick passes to the sidelines, which dump wasn't the best term to describe. One of the things I managed to miss a lot on in the last couple weeks were the screens... which never seem to work as well for us as they do against us.

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 10:59 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:00 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 10:57:35 AM

Quote :

"There is no fucking read. Russel doesn't spend any time looking at the field before he does those plays, he runs backwards and looks at the guy he's giving the ball to."

I stopped reading here because we run the read option from the shotgun, not under center. Let me know if the rest of your post was less misinformed and maybe I'll check it out.

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:03 AM. Reason : You don't look at the field, you look at the weak-side DE]

12/3/2010 11:00:24 AM

OK, I couldn't help myself

Quote :

"be it a draw up the middle or a dive, which are the fuckin same"

Why do I even waste my time trying to explain shit to people who come at me with "a draw and a dive are the same thing"

12/3/2010 11:01:52 AM

^I didn't say a draw and a dive are the same thing.

I said a draw UP THE MIDDLE and a dive are the same thing, both of which we do a lot


[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:04 AM. Reason : And I still contend that there is no read, and you have no proof to the contrary]

12/3/2010 11:03:40 AM

Nothing is the same about the two plays except the hole that the back hits. Blocking is different, QB action is different, back's action is different, downfield blocking is different, the timing is different.

Lunch is at 12, I'll give you some plays from the UNC game to watch since my spreadsheet went over your head.

Similarly, I'd like you to find us running shotgun draws "a lot"

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:08 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:05:45 AM

back to the topic at hand....

Bible's inability (or unwillingness) to make adjustments mid game absolutely killed us.

12/3/2010 11:05:51 AM

watch what the offensive line is doing and then try to claim a dive and a draw are the same thing.

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:10 AM. Reason : hell, watch any position. WR's run off coverage vs. blocking, QB look downfield vs quick handoff...]

12/3/2010 11:06:21 AM

the hole the back hits is exactly the same in a DRAW UP THE MIDDLE and a dive WHICH IS BY DEFINITION A RUN TO EITHER SIDE OF THE CENTER.

The rest doesn't matter. If you can, with success, guess where the ball will be, you can get help in that area regardless of the blocking scheme or timing. My point is that I can guess where the ball is going with success. The rest is unimportant.

12/3/2010 11:09:26 AM

With that post you have cemented your status as a guy who has absolutely no fucking idea what he's talking about

I know I say that sort of thing a lot

But seriously

You are making a complete ass of yourself

12/3/2010 11:10:53 AM

the hole is not the same at all. On a dive play, the linemen are trying to open a gap and then block downfield. They seal off a hole towards the gap that's called. With a draw play, the linemen drop back into pass coverage and try to draw the defensive linemen into rushing the QB on the outside, opening a hole straight up the center.

12/3/2010 11:12:17 AM

But, in a draw play up the middle (which we do) the guy running the ball goes through the 1 or 2 hole.


With a dive, the guy running the ball goes through the 1 or 2 hole.


I am not arguing that the blocking schemes are different. I am arguing that the ball goes to the same place. And if the ball goes to any place on the field, and the defense knows where that place is before hand, they will win the down.

12/3/2010 11:14:48 AM

Quote :

"And if the ball goes to any place on the field, and the defense knows where that place is before hand, they will win the down."

No.

No.

Defenses react differently to runs and passes. You understand that right? a draw play is designed to make the defense think the offense is passing. I don't know how to better explain the difference here.

It's like saying a fastball and a changeup are the same pitch because they cross the same corner of the plate

The two plays look the same to someone who doesn't know what they're watching, but they run differently by every player on the field

It's not even worth arguing because no one has ever been as wrong about anything as you are right now

Just sit tight until I bust your ass with some read highlights

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:17 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:15:51 AM

^^holy crap dude... do you even know the end goal of a draw???
it is to FAKE a throwing play, then after a delay, run the ball...

it is in essence the same idea as a play action

it is used to try to make the D not be able to consistently recognize pass vs run

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:16 AM. Reason : ^]

12/3/2010 11:16:19 AM

Yes, I know exactly what the purpose of the two plays is. That doesn't make my statement any less true.

Namely, because it's easy to predict whether or not Dana is going to call the run or the pass.

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:18 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:17:37 AM

Where's that Chuck Amato Football For Women tape

Dude needs to spend the weekend watching that

12/3/2010 11:17:58 AM

It's like you guys aren't even reading my post with logical brains on at the moment.

Quote :

"It's like saying a fastball and a changeup are the same pitch because they cross the same corner of the plate"

This is exactly true. As long as a batter knows where the pitch will end up before it gets there, he can hit a fastball and a changeup regardles, because he knows where the ball will be.


Wait wait. Before you jump on me for saying "they're the same" let me clarify that I mean they are the same in that it doesn't matter how the ball gets there. IF THE BATTER KNOWS IT WILL BE LOW AND OUTSIDE BUT IN THE STRIKE ZONE, HE CAN HIT IT.

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:20 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:18:25 AM

so if i have one play out of a set thats a single wideout, two backs and two tight ends, and the wideout runs a slant route and i hit him over the middle for a 10 yard pass after a play action to the fullback

and i have another set thats 4 wide (lets say trips left with the z lined up right) with a back, and the x wideout on the left runs a slant route over the middle and i hit him for a 10 yard pass

then am i to assume that a 4 wide trips left passing play is the exact same thing as an i-form twin back play action pass

cause i mean both plays had the wideout catching a 10 yard slant, right???

12/3/2010 11:21:04 AM

watch it.. you might confuse the poor guy

12/3/2010 11:22:09 AM

That's not what I'm saying at all, please use reading comprehension.

What I AM saying, is that regardless of the two setups, if you know the other team's typical move in that situation is throw a 10 yard pass over the middle to a receiver running a slant, you will have put a defensive play together in practice during the week that specifically keeps an eye out for it, REGARDLESS OF THE OFFENSIVE SET UP AT THE TIME

And you'll run that play in that situation, and if you guess right (because the opposition's OC is Dana Bible) you'll pick off the QB.

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:23 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:23:08 AM

so an all out blitz is the same things as a prevent defense with only 3 linemen rushing

so long as the defensive end makes the sack on both plays

12/3/2010 11:23:37 AM

No, now you're just being retarded

12/3/2010 11:24:06 AM

oh i'm the one being retarded

cool

12/3/2010 11:24:38 AM

Quote :

"This is exactly true. As long as a batter knows where the pitch will end up before it gets there, he can hit a fastball and a changeup regardles, because he knows where the ball will be. "

Are you fucking kidding me

Timing, man

Changeup arm action fools the batter into thinking it's a fastball. Even if he's sitting outside, and the pitch is outside, if the timing is off it's a swing and a miss.

Same with the draw. If you're sitting pass, you see what you think is pass, then the QB hands it to the back who runs past the blitz, it's swing and a miss for the defense.

12/3/2010 11:25:08 AM

Quote :

"so an all out blitz is the same things as a prevent defense with only 3 linemen rushing so long as the defensive end makes the sack on both plays"

If I need to continue the logic to convince you... Then yes.

IN THE SENSE THAT THESE TWO PLAYS BOTH END IN A SACK, they are the same. That doesn't mean that their makeup is identical, but their outcome is the same.

Just like when you run a draw play UP THE MIDDLE, or a DIVE... The outcome is the same, a runner takes the ball through a gap off center.

12/3/2010 11:25:52 AM

Quote :

"Changeup arm action fools the batter into thinking it's a fastball. Even if he's sitting outside, and the pitch is outside, if the timing is off it's a swing and a miss."

sorry for the double post.

And that's not the point. the point is that if you know where the ball will end up, you can hit it. You just have to trust you know what's coming.

12/3/2010 11:26:29 AM

Quote :

"And that's not the point. the point is that if you know where the ball will end up, you can hit it."

Timing, man

FUCK

12/3/2010 11:27:17 AM

Quote :

"Timing"

And that's the big hole between your comparison between the baseball swing and the defensive play.

Yes, if the swing is too fast or slow, he will miss.

If the defense in football gets there early, generally (as long as they can make tackles) then getting there early is good... If you know what's coming.

Of course, the runner could juke your ass and take a different route, but that's outside the scope of this argument

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:30 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:30:03 AM

OK, I'm watching the fucking UNC game again because I have to completely destroy you

I'll keep a running tally of Russell's reads

Here's the first

56:15 on the video timeline

Perfect read by Wilson

Right end crashes, pursues Greene and Wilson keeps, the end is left pursuing from behind and Wilson gets a great gain

http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=66074&league=NCAAF

I'll hook you up with account details if you don't have a login

12/3/2010 11:30:25 AM

I don't, why don't you just edit the movie and embed

12/3/2010 11:31:15 AM

Quote :

"And that's the big hole between your comparison between the baseball swing and the defensive play. Yes, if the swing is too fast or slow, he will miss. If the defense in football gets there early, generally (as long as they can make tackles) then getting there early is good... If you know what's coming."

God you're missing the point so badly

Remove the word timing and replace it with anticipation

Hitter is anticipating fastball so his timing is off

Defense is anticipating run so their whole scheme is off

--

I don't have the time, patience, or ability to edit this shit

Here's the login

espn3 -> watch now --> comcast

username: footballboard@comcast.net
pw: warchant

If you don't watch it, it's on you. The reads are there. You're wrong as fuck about everything you've said in this thread.

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:32 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:31:26 AM

Not if they're anticipating run and IT IS A RUN.

That's where the playaction pass goes in the scheme.

If they're right and it's a run, then the defense has a huge advantage regardless. the linemen hold up the cuts to the outside of the tackles, the ends keep the runner contained, and the linebackers know they only have two gaps to check. If they're right, They win.



EDIT: Ok... I don't remember in my mind's eye the plays going that way, but fine. Those are reads, I concede that point. You win. draws up the middle and dives are essentially the same.

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:36 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:34:33 AM

and if they're wrong, they're fucked

kinda like if they play run and its a pass

or if they guess changeup and its a fastball

12/3/2010 11:35:59 AM

Whatever man, you lose the dive/draw debate, onto the read option

You get ESPN3 fired up yet?

12/3/2010 11:36:03 AM