Quote :

"So 9/11 was carried out by the CIA and the NIST is complicit in it?"

I've heard people say that the CIA knew that the towers were going to be attacked and allowed it, although I don't know enough at this point to come to that conclusion. Knowing this, they could have planned the WTC 7 collapse and possibly the Pentagon attack, in order to destroy things that needed to be destroyed (data regarding the missing $2.3 trillion is one possibility).

I highly doubt that NIST was intentionally complicit, but the information they received could have been corrupted, and they may not have been allowed to investigate certain things or include certain things in their report.

[Edited on May 9, 2011 at 10:22 PM. Reason : .]

5/9/2011 10:17:46 PM

as a general rule of web forums, no one is going to watch a video they don't care about. if you are interested in getting anyone to look at something you will need a transcript.

Quote :

"This is ri-goddamn-diculous. I'm not allowed to question if I'm unable to form a conclusion?"

That's not what you are doing. You keep implying some kind of conspiracy, you even just posted a completely unrelated wiki about a CIA operation. The problem is that as soon as I, or anyone, calls you out on it and asks you what they are covering up and for what purpose you hide behind your "OH BUT I WAS JUST ASKING A QUESTION!!" give it up, you can't have it both ways.

and the NIST report came out in 2008, but most of the stuff in it was available earlier and is already addressed.

so, again, why would the NIST be complicit, what would they be covering up, and how did they pull it off in secrecy? answer these things and quit dodging, show everyone how loony you are.
(or if the NIST is not complicit and was just a patsy, who is feeding them a coverup, for what purpose, and how?)

[Edited on May 9, 2011 at 10:22 PM. Reason : .]

5/9/2011 10:22:00 PM

^
read post above yours

Quote :

" no one is going to watch a video they don't care about"

It's only ten fucking minutes and it's extremely important to the discussion.

Quote :

"you even just posted a completely unrelated wiki about a CIA operation."

I know it was unrelated. READ THE WHOLE POST.

[Edited on May 9, 2011 at 10:25 PM. Reason : .]

5/9/2011 10:23:26 PM

Quote :

"Barry Jennings, Mathys Levy, and Michael Hess."

who are these people? i recognize the second name, he is not a witness, so why are you basing your conclusion on his claim?

5/9/2011 10:24:47 PM

Quote :

"(or if the NIST is not complicit and was just a patsy, who is feeding them a coverup, for what purpose, and how?)"

5/9/2011 10:25:16 PM

^
Are you fucking illiterate?

Quote :

"I've heard people say that the CIA knew that the towers were going to be attacked and allowed it, although I don't know enough at this point to come to that conclusion. Knowing this, they could have planned the WTC 7 collapse and possibly the Pentagon attack, in order to destroy things that needed to be destroyed (data regarding the missing $2.3 trillion is one possibility). I highly doubt that NIST was intentionally complicit, but the information they received could have been corrupted, and they may not have been allowed to investigate certain things or include certain things in their report."

5/9/2011 10:28:18 PM

answer my question or i am going to destroy this thread with salisburyboy quotes

Quote :

"Barry Jennings, Mathys Levy, and Michael Hess. who are these people? i recognize the second name, he is not a witness, so why are you basing your conclusion on his claim?"

i found them, so you are deciding that the timeline doesn't make sense because someone said "about an hour and a half"

[Edited on May 9, 2011 at 10:33 PM. Reason : seems solid to me]

5/9/2011 10:29:12 PM

Quote :

"Knowing this, they could have planned the WTC 7 collapse and possibly the Pentagon attack, in order to destroy things that needed to be destroyed (data regarding the missing $2.3 trillion is one possibility)."

so rather than, i don't know, just destroying or "losing" some data, the cia counts on this huge chain of events to fall into place for a cover-up. a chain of events that meant the successful hijacking of multiple planes, the successful piloting of those planes into their targets, and sufficient damage of the target, the wtc collapsing and debris falling far enough to hit wtc7, the certain deaths of numerous people, etc...

can you start to see how retarded this is?

5/9/2011 10:37:25 PM

^^

Barry Jennings - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8LivSW9zLg&feature=player_detailpage#t=163s

Matthys Levys - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnW0IWe7qFw

Michael Hess - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e3K9jcPdXc

Quote :

"i found them, so you are deciding that the timeline doesn't make sense because someone said "about an hour and a half""

Well they were the only ones in the building, so their opinion does hold some weight.

BTW, Bryan Jennings died in 2008, at 53, a few days before the release of NIST's report.

http://barryjenningsmystery.blogspot.com/

Quote :

"so rather than, i don't know, just destroying or "losing" some data, the cia counts on this huge chain of events to fall into place for a cover-up. a chain of events that meant the successful hijacking of multiple planes, the successful piloting of those planes into their targets, and sufficient damage of the target, the wtc collapsing and debris falling far enough to hit wtc7, the certain deaths of numerous people, etc... can you start to see how retarded this is?"

This is why I didn't want to theorize. I knew you would attack the theories (which are PURE speculation), instead of the evidence.

[Edited on May 9, 2011 at 10:51 PM. Reason : .]

5/9/2011 10:50:56 PM

the evidence points to the nist findings or something very similar to it, that damage from the second tower damaged the building and caused it to fail

there is no evidence for a counter theory

hell, you can't even offer a counter theory

5/9/2011 10:53:11 PM

^
If you don't respond to these points individually, I'll have to assume that you have no interested in honest discussion.

Quote :

"-Barry Jennings and Michael Hess were in the building and claim the fires started at 9:30. Barry Jennings also claimed to hear explosions and see bodies in the building as he exited. Mr. Jennings died of unknown causes in 2008, two days before the NIST report was released.] -NIST Fire Investigations Manual says any investigation with a total collapse should look for evidence of accelerants. NIST did not do this. -Report was not peer-reviewed correctly (they hired contractors to review it--the data they used is not public). -NIST assumed no thermo-conductivity of steel. -The model only shows part of the collapse. -NIST heated the girders in their model, but not the concrete. Concrete can expand and contract with steel due to heat. It's -Finally, and most importantly, neither the model nor the data has been released to allow for public peer review."

5/9/2011 11:05:54 PM

so of your three witnesses: one is not a witness, one doesn't say anything about 9:30 and only has a vague order of events and instead claiming it was explosive demolitions, and the other doesn't say anything about 9:30 just says about an hour and a half but there is no way to know what time that count starts from.

But lets attempt a timeline: the third interview happens just before noon (11:57), he says that he has been trapped for the past hour and a half, so now we are at about 10:30. At that time he hears an explosion and has to go back upstairs and is trapped. Hmmm, what else happened a little before 10:30? Oh yeah, the north tower came down.

[Edited on May 9, 2011 at 11:08 PM. Reason : let me tarantino this timeline for you]

5/9/2011 11:06:11 PM

Quote :

"But lets attempt a timeline: the third interview happens just before noon (11:57), he says that he has been trapped for the past hour and a half, so now we are at about 10:30. At that time he hears an explosion and has to go back upstairs and is trapped. Hmmm, what else happened a little before 10:30? Oh yeah, the north tower came down."

You're thinking now! This is good! I agree with you. I didn't make that connection.

Here's the full Barry Jennings interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DuSeuxjiJQ

He makes it perfectly clear that Tower 1 AND Tower 2 fell after the explosions. Lots of other interesting tidbits, including that he stepped over dead bodies on the first floor.

5/9/2011 11:22:31 PM

that's not clear at all actually, and if you listen to the guy with him the story makes sense. The north tower damaged wtc7.

5/9/2011 11:32:43 PM

^
Jennings and Hess reach stairwell, explosion goes off,landing gives way on the 6th floor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DuSeuxjiJQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=117s

They walk back up to the 8th floor. Hess tests the phones. Jennings breaks a window with a fire extinguisher, almost tries to climb out with a firehouse (one of the glass-encased ones, I'm guessing). Firefighters show up, tells them not to do it, because the hose won't hold. Firefighters run off.

At this point, Tower 1 comes down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DuSeuxjiJQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=171s

Firefighters come back, then run off again. One of firefighters says "Don't worry, we'll be back for you".

Tower 2 falls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DuSeuxjiJQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=186s

I suggest you watch the rest as well.

Barry Jennings is dead because he talked. Michael Hess is alive because he hasn't.

[Edited on May 9, 2011 at 11:45 PM. Reason : .]

5/9/2011 11:40:49 PM

They were at the stairwell at approximately 10:30, an hour and a half before the noon interview. That's when the north tower came down. Try to pay attention.

5/9/2011 11:47:24 PM

Holy shit, will you just watch the first few minutes of the video? Do you never learn? I've shown you to be willfully ignorant time and time again.

Jennings says they reached the stairwell, the stairwell blew up, they went back upstairs, messed with the phones and broke a window, then firefighters showed up and Jennings watched Tower 1 collapse.

5/9/2011 11:51:11 PM

i watched the video, Hess is pretty clear. Jennings is confused but his story matches up with Hess.

5/9/2011 11:53:43 PM

EVIDENCE OF GROUND SHAKE JUST BEFORE THE COLLAPSE OF THE TWIN TOWERS, SUGGESTING POWERFUL EXPLOSIVES USED TO DESTROY THE STRUCTURAL SUPPORTS OF THE TOWERS JUST PRIOR TO THEIR COLLAPSE

The following testimony is from the emergency personnel tapes released in August '05:

Quote :

"“We felt the ground shake. You could see the towers sway and then it just came down and I never looked back once I started running.” --medical technician Lonnie Penn"

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110203.PDF (see page 5 of PDF file for quote)

Quote :

""...all of a sudden the ground just started shaking. It felt like a train was running under my feet. . . . The next thing we know, we look up and the tower is collapsing." --fire patrolman Paul Curran"

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110369.PDF (see page 11 of PDF for quote)

Quote :

"""Shortly before the first tower came down I remember feeling the ground shaking. I heard a terrible noise, and then debris just started flying everywhere. People started running...." [...] "...we basically had the same thing: The ground shook again, and we heard another terrible noise and the next thing we knew the second tower was coming down." --Lieutenant Bradley Mann of the fire department"

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110194.PDF (see pp. 5-7 of PDF file for quotes)


Video evidence of groundshake prior to WTC collapse
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtcshake.mpg

Look for the camera to shake for about a second approximately 7 seconds into the clip and 10 seconds before the collapse begins.


More...

Images of the World Trade Center Site Show Thermal Hot Spots on September 16 and 23, 2001:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/thermal.r09.html (U. S. Geological Survey Report)

WTC Thermal Hot Spots: The Fingerprint of a Demolition:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_hotspots.html

5/9/2011 11:54:46 PM

What about WTC Building 7? Is anyone going to dispute that it was brought down in a controlled demolition? Oh, right, the evidence in this case is "forgeries" also?

WTC Complex Leaseholder Larry Silverstein admitted in PBS documentary that WTC 7 was brought down in controlled demolition:
1 minute video clip: http://infowars.com/Video/911/wtc7_pbs.WMV

Quote :

""I remember getting a call from the Fire Department Commander telling me that they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire. I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is 'pull it.' And they made that decision to pull, and then we watched the building collapse." --Larry Silverstein (WTC leaseholder)"

"Pull" and "pull it" are industry terms for triggering a controlled demolition. To make this perfectly clear, here is another video clip from the same PBS documentary where the term "pull" is used to describe beginning a controlled demolition on WTC Building 6.

video: http://thewebfairy.com/911/pullit/pull-it2_lo.wmv


WTC 7 Collapse footage. Watch the demolition charges going off at the top right of WTC 7 in the following video clip. Also notice how the center of building collapses first:
http://www.infowars.com/Video/911/WTC7COLLAPSE2.WMV


Here are some still pictures from the video of the collapse of WTC 7:



Notice the clear demolition squibs at upper right of building.

5/9/2011 11:55:26 PM

Quote :

"and that picture has so OBVIOUSLY been photoshopped its ridiculous..."

Yeah, it's SOOOOOOO "obvious"....haha. What a joke.

Here's the WTC 7 Collapse footage (from which those photos came) which shows the demolition charges going off at the top right of the building. Also notice how the center of building collapses first:
http://www.infowars.com/Video/911/WTC7COLLAPSE2.WMV

But this video is a "forgery" too, right?

5/9/2011 11:55:56 PM

Quote :

"There is NO proof of a government conspiracy at all."

Are there any government conspiracies? Did not the Bush Administration just deliberately deceive the public in order to trick us into war against Iraq? Did not the U.S. Government deliberately lie about the Gulf of Tonkin incident as the pretext for the Vietnam War? And did not the U.S. Government plan in the 1960s to fake hijacking planes and terrorize U.S. Cities and then blame it on Cuba to serve as the pretext for a war against Cuba (ie, the "Operation Northwoods" plan)?

There is a long track record of the U.S. Government using deception, and even planning to kill and terrorize it's own citizens, in order to start wars. And the Zionists and neo-cons around the Bush Administration have been wanting to go to war to take control of the Middle East and Central Asian region for a long time. The 9/11 attacks were the "crisis" needed to get the public behind these wars, including the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and now maybe Iran.

Quote :

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor. --Rebuilding America’s Defences: Strategy, Forces and Resrouces For a New Century, page 51 http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf"

(see top of page 51 of pdf document above...page 63 of 90 in display):

They got their "catastrophic and catalyzing event" just a year later on September 11th, 2001. Coincidence?

Quote :

"You can only hope you create doubt in people with absurd quotes and deceive them with fake photographs and videos."

Are pathetic denials such as the above really supposed to persuade anyone to join your side and believe the government's "official" story on 9/11? Sorry, but weak denial tactics, such as trying to brush off the evidence I'm presenting as "fake" is just not going to work. The facts and evidence are on our side, and conclusively show that the "official" story is completely bogus.

5/9/2011 11:56:56 PM

you know whats funny, in my last post he even mentions the CIA Northwoods operation

you are such a hack

5/9/2011 11:57:38 PM

Quote :

"you know whats funny, in my last post he even mentions the CIA Northwoods operation you are such a hack"

And he makes a valid point in that instance.

I PMed the duke to have your bullshit removed from this thread.

I'm so sorry that you have no more rebuttals and have to resort to nonsense.

[Edited on May 9, 2011 at 11:59 PM. Reason : .]

5/9/2011 11:58:56 PM

Quote :

"Puffs of smoke as a building collapse aren't evidence."

When those "puffs of smoke" are indicative of demolition squibs, then they ARE evidence of a controlled demolition. And the squibs are only a fraction of the evidence supporting the fact that the twin towers were brought down with explosives. There are literally dozens of examples of testimony from firefighters, emergency personnel, tv reporters, and other eyewitnesses describing the explosives going off in the towers.

New York Firefighters Discuss Bombs in WTC Towers (*MUST SEE*)
40 second video clip: http://www.prisonplanet.com/032404firefightersdiscuss.html

Quote :

"Firefighter 1: "Floor by floor it started popping out." Firefighter 2: "It was if they had detonators...planted to take down the building" Firefighter 1: "Yeah. Detonators. Yeah." Firefighter 2: "Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom..." Firefighter 1: "All the way down.""

AMAZING EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY FROM THE 9/11 EMERGENCY PERSONNEL TAPES RELEASED IN AUGUST '05 DESCRIBING EXPLOSIVES GOING OFF JUST BEFORE THE TWIN TOWER COLLAPSES

The testimony of Stephen Gregory, Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.):

Quote :

"A. ...I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been the result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down. Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was? A. No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me… He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too. [...] Q. On the television pictures it appeared as well, before the first collapse, that there was an explosion on the upper floors. A. I know about the explosion on the upper floors. This was like eye level.""

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110008.PDF

(see pp. 14-15 of PDF file for above quotes)


The testimony of Chief Frank Cruthers:

Quote :

""And while I was still in that immediate area, the south tower, 2 World Trade Center, there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse.""

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110179.PDF

(see page 4 of PDF file for above quote)

The testimony of Daniel Rivera (Paramedic, EMS):

Quote :

""It was a frigging noise. At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop" That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that. When I heard that frigging noise, that's when I saw the building coming down.""

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110035.PDF

(see page 9 of PDF file for above quote)


The testimony of Captain Karin Deshore of emergency medical services:

Quote :

""Somewhere around the middle of the world trade center there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building. I went inside and told everybody that the other building or there was an explosion occuring up there and I said I think we have another major explosion. I don't know if we are all going to be safe here."

http://sfgate.com/gate/pictures/2005/09/10/ga_karin_deshore.pdf

(see page 15 of PDF file for above quote)

Quote :

"READ THESE TESTIMONIES! "Popping sounds" associated with red and orange flashings going around the building. Witnesses describing explosions and material shooting out of the building and then a delay before the collapse. Witnesses saying they thought it was a “controlled demolition.” TELL ME THAT THERE WEREN'T EXPLOSIVE CHARGES IN THE TOWERS. TELL ME THAT ISN'T A DESCRIPTION OF A CONTROLLED DEMOLITION."

Quote :

"Bombs in the basement wouldn't make it collapse top-to-bottom."

You are saying that based on the assumption that there were bombs only in the basement. There were explosives not only in the basement area of the towers, but all over the building. Explosives were needed in various locations (including at the base level) in order to bring down the towers in the way that they collapsed.

Quote :

"Where did the NWO hide the thousands of pounds of squibs and miles of detonator cord?"

Where did they put the detonator cords and how did they rig WTC BUILDING 7 for it's controlled demolition? Look. They pulled it off in the case of WTC 7. Why is it so hard for you to believe they did it with the twin towers?

5/10/2011 12:03:16 AM

<font size=+4>GOOD FUCKIN' JOB THE DUKE

THIS FUCKIN' GUY...</font>

5/10/2011 12:04:25 AM

Quote :

"never before, in all the theories ive read on PH, have i come across anything at all claiming this. please provide proof for this"

U.S. GOVERNMENT HAD PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF JAPANESE ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR AND ALLOWED IT TO OCCUR TO DRAW AMERICA INTO WORLD WAR II

As we all know, the United States was drawn into WWII by the attack on Pearl Harbor. The U.S. put Japan into a situation where they had to attack the U.S. Pacific fleet, and the U.S. government and military knew that Japan was planning an attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet. The elite engineered and allowed the attack to occur. They needed it to create U.S. public support for entering the war. The History Channel has even aired programming documenting that the U.S. government had prior knowledge of the attack.

Documentation:

Topeka Capital-Journal: "FDR knew attack was coming"
[link]http://web.archive.org/web/20040223032130/http://www.cjonline.com/stories/120601/pea_fdrknew.shtml[/link]

The BBC made a documentary, which asserts that the U.S. government allowed the attack at Pearl Harbor to occur. The entire video can be watched online here:

BBC Documentary: "Sacrifice at Pearl Harbor" (video)
http://sf.indymedia.org/uploads/sacrificeatpearlharbor.ram

NY Press: "FDR Knew It Was Coming"
http://www.nypress.com/14/23/news&columns/wildjustice.cfm

Newsmax: "Unlike George W. Bush, FDR Had Specific Warnings"
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/13/94615.shtml

The McCollum Memo: The Smoking Gun of Pearl Harbor
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/McCollum/index.html

whatreallyhappened.com's Pearl Harbor Archive
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html

prisonplanet.com's Pearl Harbor Archive
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html#harbor

"Pearl Harbor Historiography: A Lesson in Academic Housecleaning"
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north26.html

"December 7, 1941: A Setup from the Beginning"
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=103

Yamamoto's radio message intercepted in Hawaii on Nov. 24th: attack on Pearl Harbor was NOT a total surprise
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/SH.html

5/10/2011 12:05:10 AM

5/10/2011 12:23:17 AM

5/10/2011 12:23:41 AM

5/10/2011 12:24:21 AM

5/10/2011 12:24:56 AM

5/10/2011 12:25:29 AM

5/10/2011 12:26:32 AM

5/10/2011 12:27:33 AM

5/10/2011 12:28:09 AM

5/10/2011 12:28:32 AM

5/10/2011 12:28:54 AM

5/10/2011 12:29:29 AM

d

5/10/2011 12:29:50 AM

s

5/10/2011 12:30:20 AM

5/10/2011 12:31:00 AM

5/10/2011 12:31:27 AM

5/10/2011 12:31:57 AM

5/10/2011 12:32:27 AM

5/10/2011 12:33:11 AM

5/10/2011 12:33:36 AM

5/10/2011 12:34:05 AM

5/10/2011 12:34:41 AM

5/10/2011 12:35:33 AM

5/10/2011 12:36:38 AM