Quote :

"So please show me some kind of indication that "Labor Quality" excludes skill mismatch."

Show me some kind of indication that labor quality includes skill mismatch. I don't know how you're defining labor quality. I think of labor quality as a lot more than "skills and experience", it's effort, punctuality, personality, ability to communicate, ability to work with team, etc. Basic skills are necessary to avoid having your resume thrown directly in the trash, while the quality of your work takes a little more investigation to determine on the part of the employer.

2/24/2012 12:22:05 PM

Quote :

"Show me some kind of indication that labor quality includes skill mismatch."

Because there is no other field there that would encompass skill mismatch, except "Other', which if that were the case makes you even wronger.

2/24/2012 12:23:26 PM

Is it really this hard for you to re-evaluate your assumptions when presented with data that clearly contradicts it? Do you have data to support any of the things you believe? Or are you really just operating entirely on a priori logic with everything? Granted, it's a strategy that requires no effort from you to verify a damn word you say, and has endless utility since you've proven yourself to be the king of post-hoc rationalizations.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 12:28 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 12:27:37 PM

Quote :

"No, you fail to understand economics. You can sell an infinite number of dongles, but if it costs more to produce them than to sell them, you will not profit. If you can't find the labor to build them in the first place, you will not profit."

We are not discussing cost of goods sold. We are talking about the importance of sales relative to minimum profitability, and why when sales drop, sales become more important.

Where and how are you establishing the definition of "labor quality"? There is no discrimination between industries or types of labor. I am sure there is a surplus of workers for low skill jobs, but what about positions that require technical competency (welding, engineering, computer science, etc.)?

The argument about over education, is that droves of new grads are coming out of college with little to no marketable, in demand skills. Obviously if low-skill positions are filled, then labor quality demand is satisfied.

It seems like you are making a lot of assumptions about these graphs and the level of detail they examine. It also seems like you are drawing some conclusions after making some logical leaps. What is your explanation for the high importance of sales?

Is your stance that the government should give out money to low/middle class to stimulate consumption, which will satisfy sales concerns, and trigger a need for more workers?

Or that we should force businesses to pay more for labor, to drive more sales from the workers?

2/24/2012 12:38:14 PM

Quote :

"Is it really this hard for you to re-evaluate your assumptions when presented with data that clearly contradicts it? Do you have data to support any of the things you believe? Or are you really just operating entirely on a priori logic with everything? Granted, it's a strategy that requires no effort from you to verify a damn word you say, and has endless utility since you've proven yourself to be the king of post-hoc rationalizations."

We don't know where this data is from, what methodology was used to collect the data, or any of the necessary information to fully evaluate what it means. You don't provide any definitions. You boiled "labor quality" down to "skills and experience". This matches up with your lack of understanding about how businesses work.

2/24/2012 1:11:22 PM

Quote :

"Herp a derp derp the problem is too many Women's Studies degrees, I know this is true because it's a fashionably cynical position and makes me appear Very Serious that this is a concern of mine! Real world? Nope never heard of it, I just know that colleges have lots of liberal arts degrees with silly names and so that's probably a Very Big Problem for the economy! Also, inflation!!!!"

The biggest problem is that the graph is a kind of false dichotomy and only addresses one issue (the biggest) which may be of similar magnitude to the second biggest. It could be that the 1st concern is 40% of the problem and the 2nd biggest concern is 39% of the problem. It oversimplifies too much.

Quote :

"The money supply is the money supply. If someone can lend money "out of thin air" then the entire point is that they may increase the money supply for the purposes of the loan. "

There is an opportunity through bond buying and venture capital to allow new people into the fold. The bond sellers may use the capital to hire more or take other business risks that would grow business and increase hiring (perhaps even tapping into new markets abroad), and a VC fund may use them to stabilize their other riskier investments allowing the capital they have to go into the hands of entrepreneurs.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 1:56 PM. Reason : a]

2/24/2012 1:55:17 PM

Quote :

"The data that clearly shows Labor Quality is the least concern its been of business in more than 25 years."

I like how you are using the words "Labor Quality," a fairly nebulous concept, to mean exactly what you want it to mean and are ignoring any other possible meanings that respondents to the survey might use, and then declaring that that means anyone else's concepts of "Labor Quality" are always and completely incorrect. Your username is well-chosen.

2/24/2012 1:56:59 PM

Quote :

"Where and how are you establishing the definition of "labor quality"? There is no discrimination between industries or types of labor. I am sure there is a surplus of workers for low skill jobs, but what about positions that require technical competency (welding, engineering, computer science, etc.)?"

How about you look for yourself: http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cpsatab14.htm

If skill mismatch were the primary issue (or even secondary) issue, then we wouldn't see a rise in involuntary unemployment across literally every industry. There'd be labor surpluses in some areas and shortages in others. But that's not what we see, every industry has taken a the hit.

You know what, since you wont accept any rationale for evidence I suggest, I want you to tell me. What (reasonable) burden of evidence would convince you that skill mismatch is grossly overblown as a concern?

Quote :

"The argument about over education, is that droves of new grads are coming out of college with little to no marketable, in demand skills. Obviously if low-skill positions are filled, then labor quality demand is satisfied."

So instead of theorizing about it, why don't you propose an experiment, some data that would be useful in confirming the truth or falseness of the skill mismatch theory.

Quote :

"It seems like you are making a lot of assumptions about these graphs and the level of detail they examine. It also seems like you are drawing some conclusions after making some logical leaps. What is your explanation for the high importance of sales?"

A massive drop in aggreggate demand as a result of high unemployment and austerity further reducing overall spending by the classes (lower and middle) which tend to spend the highest proportion of their paychecks.

Quote :

"Is your stance that the government should give out money to low/middle class to stimulate consumption, which will satisfy sales concerns, and trigger a need for more workers? Or that we should force businesses to pay more for labor, to drive more sales from the workers?"

My ideal would be maintaining safety net spending, particularly unemployment benefits, so that middle and lower classers don't fall so far as to permanently set back their lifetime earnings (and thus spending) potentials. That, plus massive investment in infrastructure (roads, bridges, broadband, dams, etc) that would both create temporary employment (and thus inject money the consumer classes) and lower costs for businesses and employees in a way that can't be outsourced (You can't take an efficient system to China).

What you may notice about my solutions is that both of them are temporary and neither requires any long-term expansion of government. I have other wishes that would, like socialized higher education, but they aren't necessary to the problem at hand (Recovering from an aggregate demand shock).

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 3:05 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 2:38:32 PM

Quote :

"We don't know where this data is from, what methodology was used to collect the data, or any of the necessary information to fully evaluate what it means. You don't provide any definitions. You boiled "labor quality" down to "skills and experience". This matches up with your lack of understanding about how businesses work."

It's from the NFID, a small business consortium that's been doing these studies for a long time and is typically a very right-wing organization.

Here's the full report

http://www.nfib.com/Portals/0/PDF/sbet/sbet201111.pdf

Quote :

"You boiled "labor quality" down to "skills and experience". This matches up with your lack of understanding about how businesses work."

Again, let's say labor quality does not include skills and experience (Despite the fact that an unskilled, inexperienced laborer is by definition of very low quality). Where then would such a concern be represented? In "Other"? If it's really what's holding back the economy, as you say, I'd think maybe actual business owners might cite it somewhere.

Why don't you propose some kind of experiment to confirm or deny your assertion, instead of falling back on a priori reasoning and "common sense" arguments. You know, actually think of a way to test your conclusions against reality.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 3:02 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 2:41:57 PM

Quote :

"The biggest problem is that the graph is a kind of false dichotomy and only addresses one issue (the biggest) which may be of similar magnitude to the second biggest. It could be that the 1st concern is 40% of the problem and the 2nd biggest concern is 39% of the problem. It oversimplifies too much. "

Not really, considering the claim that it's the biggest concern is what I'm refuting. Not that it's the second biggest.

Quote :

"I like how you are using the words "Labor Quality," a fairly nebulous concept, to mean exactly what you want it to mean and are ignoring any other possible meanings that respondents to the survey might use, and then declaring that that means anyone else's concepts of "Labor Quality" are always and completely incorrect. Your username is well-chosen."

Okay, then which category would skill mismatch instead fit into?

2/24/2012 2:44:00 PM

Quote :

"Not really, considering the claim that it's the biggest concern is what I'm refuting. Not that it's the second biggest. "

Well here's your problem then. No one claimed it was the biggest concern.

2/24/2012 5:25:39 PM

Quote :

"You know what, since you wont accept any rationale for evidence I suggest, I want you to tell me. What (reasonable) burden of evidence would convince you that skill mismatch is grossly overblown as a concern?"

I need more than a graph and a single, biased, interpretation of it.

Perhaps the issue is that we have fundamental differences on how we view and want the marketplace to work.

Call it gut intuition, but I predict if the government guaranteed everyone's livelihood, our economy would be even less sustainable.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 7:41 PM. Reason : words]

2/24/2012 7:40:12 PM

Quote :

"I need more than a graph and a single, biased, interpretation of it."

Okay so say what more you need.


(Yes, I am trying to trick you into consulting reality so keep dodging if you want to avoid referencing anything but your "gut intuitions.")

[Edited on February 27, 2012 at 8:58 AM. Reason : .]

2/27/2012 8:57:19 AM

Valid, reliable, conclusive data that is analyzed and interpreted objectively.

The issue with this is that I also subscribe to the black swan theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory

Identifying a black swan event
The event is a surprise (to the observer).
The event has a major impact.
After its first recording, the event is rationalized by hindsight, as if it could have been expected (e.g., the relevant data were available but not accounted for).


The present conditions of our economy, the global economy, society, etc.; are a direct result of black swan events. They can't be predicted, their full impact is unknown, and are generally rationalized/understood through hindsight.


[Edited on February 27, 2012 at 10:16 AM. Reason : words]

2/27/2012 10:13:12 AM

Quote :

"Valid, reliable, conclusive data that is analyzed and interpreted objectively."

I'm not going to toss 50,000 attempts at you just to have you shift the goalposts left or right each time, such that the data that might force your re-evaluate your assumption is always just at the horizon. Give me some relevant metrics, relationships, you know, things that can be acted upon. If you can't imagine what kind of data might challenge your assumptions, you're talking about belief and not anything resembling objectivity or empiricism. At this point I'm just trying to find out if you *do* know anything about the real data underlying the issue.

Now quit warbling about black swans and show me that your views are in the least bit even capable of being impacted by the real world. If your worldview is impervious to actually observing the world, then just admit you're an ideologue and get it over with, stop pretending it's at all based on empiricism.


[Edited on February 27, 2012 at 10:31 AM. Reason : .]

2/27/2012 10:26:08 AM

When you define "the real world" as the data and economic models that you support, no one can take you seriously. In this case, you provided data that did not, in fact, support your argument. You're just arguing for the sake of it.

I mean, for Christ's sake...this shtick is so old. You and McDanger are the same guy, right? What goes on in your mind? "Oh shit, I posted this graph and it didn't throw them off. In fact, it doesn't even say what I wanted it to say. I guess I'll...accuse them of not accepting evidence that comes into contrast with their worldview. Yeah, that's the ticket."

No one buys this bullshit at all. It's a cop out and you know it.

Quote :

"Not really, considering the claim that it's the biggest concern is what I'm refuting. Not that it's the second biggest."

Quote :

"Well here's your problem then. No one claimed it was the biggest concern."

[Edited on February 27, 2012 at 11:42 AM. Reason : ]

2/27/2012 11:37:37 AM

Quote :

"Okay so say what more you need. "

That depends on the specific issue we are examining.

Concerning most of these issues, to get a accurate conclusion, some pretty rigorous research would have to take place to determine causation, rather than correlation. Probably so rigorous and large in scale, that its pretty much infeasible.

And since this system (the economy) you want to manipulate through government control is so complex, large in scale, convoluted, and riddled with moral hazard; an experiment that held X constant, Changed Y, then measured W would be nearly impossible to interpret accurately.

That is subscribe to Austrian economics. It doesn't try to solve problems with complex equations with unknown and hidden variables by throwing public money at them.

2/27/2012 1:18:23 PM

News from India.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Govt-uses-special-powers-to-slash-cancer-drug-price-by-97/articleshow/12240143.cms?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=toionFB

3/13/2012 10:28:15 AM

That's a big "duh". You could lower the cost of all drugs by making patent exceptions. If you tell a company they're the only ones legally allowed to manufacture a drug for 20 years, why would you expect them to keep prices down? Any price can be justified by "we were just recouping our R&D!"

3/13/2012 10:46:17 AM

So intellectual property is not protected the same as other property?

3/13/2012 10:56:51 AM

Intellectual property is not property. If I steal your car, you no longer have a car. If I steal a digital copy of your song, you're not missing anything. You still have your "intellectual property", and you can do with it what you will.

If you don't want people using your ideas, don't make them public.

3/13/2012 11:01:18 AM

and dont expect any money or recognition for your shitty ideas anyways. after all.... you don't really deserve it. not even being sarcastic.

[Edited on March 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM. Reason : -]

3/13/2012 12:05:38 PM

>.<

3/13/2012 1:12:48 PM