I think ever since they scrapped the illegal defense rules game play has improved.

There is way more of a euro pass happy scheme implemented now.

It's not just the top 4 teams. Miami and charlotte are both interesting teams to watch.

I do agree the top teams are always a little too good for the bottom half but that's just the way it's going to be as long as they have a maximum salary in place.

It assures that some teams get stars for below market price and the other teams get nic batum types

5/6/2016 1:28:00 AM

it was better when it wasnt just a game of who could jack up the most 3s

5/6/2016 10:27:34 AM

it kind of depends on whether steph is really just this amazing generational player or kind of just a harbinger of a new era

I mean either way it will be better than the kobe bryant isolation/high volume/bad shot taking era we were subjected to

but man I'd def like another shaq to come around to balance things out a bit, kind of ticks me off I was too young to really watch a great 7 foot player and have to listen to ok this is going to be the year when dwight howard learns to dominate in the post crap

5/6/2016 2:04:30 PM

The postup era is not coming back in my opinion.

It's not because of steph... it's that you literally have power forwards who can shoot the three more accurately than most point guards from 15 years ago.

Shooting 30% from 3s is only 45% from 2s.. doable from everywhere

But 40% skyrockets to 60%... so if it's not a layup or free throw it better be a 3...

Postup don't draw enough fouls, don't result in enough layups, and result in too many turnovers

5/6/2016 2:42:11 PM

Yeah, if a post player isn't shooting 60-70% there's no reason to play in the post. Unless they back the 3 point line off more or allow more hand checking it's not going to change, and if they do that it will just make the corner 3 even more valuable.

In most sports the rules dictate the style of play. Allowing zone type defenses made the perimeter game happen just like the rules in the NFL resulted in the emphasis on the passing game.

5/6/2016 3:36:26 PM

Partially rules and partially evolution.

Nfl qbs got much better. Michael irVin said it best. In his day you had a big receiver and on the opposite side a fast guy. Now the big guy is the fast guy.

Not to mention with the speed and size of linebackers it just made running too difficult

Once teams started switching personnel like agile ol, pass catching te, etc it was all over. Most teams simply can't run anywhere near as effectively as they can pass.

I laugh hearing all these guys still maintain that the run sets up the pass . It is completely the other way around. If you can't pass and spread them out you have zero chance of running at all

5/6/2016 3:58:21 PM

Good job guys. This is one of the most substantive discussions i've seen on here in a while. (not sarcasm at all)

The thing is though, even though you guys are right about style, i wasn't even referring to style. I'm speaking specifically about the competitiveness and league parity. Why are there 4 teams who each have at least 2 players better than every other player on every other team? Other sports deal with big markets but the talent stays relatively spread out
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25470487/ranking-the-30-best-starting-pitchers-in-major-league-baseball-for-2016
Look how well spread the top 30 aces are in baseball. I'd love to see the top nba players spread out like that. Imagine how shitty it would be if a few teams had 3 or 4 of those guys each. Thats what nba has been like

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.cgi
8 of the top 10 mvps are on the same 4 teams and we all know irving and griffin are better than kyle lowry.

5/6/2016 5:55:43 PM

It's a little hard to make the argument that it's not fair that the players aren't spread out over the league when you have to give credit to half these teams for taking advantage of home-grown talent.

OKC - Drafted Durant and Westbrook (and Harden) and Ibaka

SAS - Drafted Duncan, Ginobili, Leonard.

CLE - Drafted James (at least the first time around), drafted Irving.

GSW - Drafted Green, Thompson, Curry.

Yes, there are parameters in place to make it attractive for home-grown talent to stay put. Some players will selfishly chase after the money. Some actually enjoy the franchises that they work for and buy in to the culture and want to stay there. But it's not like they're just raking it in when it comes to getting free agents. Yes, a culture of winning will draw particular players, but a lot of their success is earned.

In the case of Cleveland, there's nothing attractive about wanting to play for that city. Kudos to Lebron for making it a destination.

Miami, New York, and Los Angeles are still the marquee places to play based on celebrity and exposure. Other cities have tax advantages.

Ultimately, this type of thing will correct itself and the dynamics will shift and it'll be a different set of "monster" teams in the next 5 years. Might still hate the fact that those monster teams are better than the rest of the league, but like some folks mentioned earlier, there were the 80's Celtics and Lakers, the 90's Bulls, the 90's-00's Lakers and Spurs..there are always going to be a few power teams that will exist and in a seven game series, it'll be very difficult for the underdog to win.

5/6/2016 6:25:47 PM

About half of those baseball aces aren't on their original teams, fwiw. And the farm systems and minor league clubs just work differently than in basketball. It would be kind of like if every NBA team had multiple D-League teams. But you still have a handful of MLB clubs with $200MM salaries and others with salaries of only $50-$75MM.

I do agree that the current era has more of a "if I can't beat em, join em" feel than the old NBA. Lebron teaming up with D-Wade in Lebron's prime isn't quite the same as Karl Malone and Gary Payton sacrificing salary for a year or two to try and win a ring before they retire.

5/6/2016 6:26:02 PM

Ok, skipping back to the actual playoffs for a second, I think Cleveland might be the best team right now. They are playing absolutely lights out. They're definitely capable of taking the title from GSW even with a healthy Steph if they can play this kind of offense consistently. I mean, Jesus, this has been an impressive stretch.

5/6/2016 11:10:18 PM

They arent playing anybody though

5/6/2016 11:12:17 PM

True, but they look better right now against the Hawks than the Warriors did against the Rockets, and it would be hard to argue that the Rockets are the tougher opponent of the two.

5/6/2016 11:22:15 PM

Rockets are a much better playoff team. I mean they have one of the best players in the whole league. Atlanta has a bunch of good players none of which can kill you. Their most dangerous player is a spot shooter who has to be wide open

[Edited on May 6, 2016 at 11:35 PM. Reason : And they handled the rockets without curry]

5/6/2016 11:34:21 PM

Hi! Cavs fan checking in! Looking pretty solid so far hope we keep it up

5/6/2016 11:34:56 PM

man i hope we take care of the raptors. i so badly want a heat/cavs series. it would be the best NBA watching in this generation.

5/6/2016 11:56:09 PM

I will not be surprised if the Cavs don't lose a game until the finals. They're just that much better than anybody else in the East.

5/7/2016 7:41:47 AM

Told you guys you were sleeping on the cavs. Crazy how little attention they are getting after what they did to golden state last year

5/7/2016 10:01:51 AM

whelp that sucked. hope Curry is back for game 4 because they obviously need him. and face is full of shit about Lillard. he should have been an all-star, no questions asked.

5/7/2016 11:12:49 PM

Blazers better enjoy that one. Steph is going to rain down on them next game.

5/7/2016 11:19:07 PM

I mean hes better than kobe obviously. He's probably better than cousins too

5/8/2016 4:22:06 AM

I think the Whiteside injury has pretty much doomed Miami unless he can somehow make it back by game 5. I think Raptors probably take this series pretty easily now. It's too much burden on Wade and the Heat will get eaten alive on the inside by Valunciunas

It wasn't so much that the Blazers looked good, it was more a function of GSW looking bad tonight. They looked completely out of sync on offense. They aren't going to win many games if they only have offense coming from Draymond and Klay.

I don't think there's going to be another game were they get that little production from Livingston, Iggy, and Barnes all at the same time. I still think this one is Warriors in 6.

5/8/2016 7:42:05 AM

Yeah i think miami is done. Sucks i wish whiteside got hurt during our series.

At this point I just can't believe someone is actually going to give Harrison barnes the max. His game has regressed way too far. It's gonna be a crippling deal for whoever signs him

If he can't look good in this system and he looked terrible as a goto guy...

I mean giving batum the max is one of those eh he's not really a max guy but we don't wannaa lose him over $2-3 million /yr.

But barnes is not even really a quality player this season

[Edited on May 8, 2016 at 10:06 AM. Reason : A]

5/8/2016 10:03:26 AM

Wow valanciunas is out for the series. That certainly evens it out a bit.

It will be interesting to see if miami play amare a lot or just go small. I'd probably go half and half since he can't log huge mins anymore

If I'm toronto i don't wanna go small vs miami so I'm playing biyombo and just trying to clean up rebounding/defense.

5/8/2016 3:05:53 PM

Barnes is definitely not an alpha dog. I mean, that much was clear when he was in college, but he could easily be the second best player on a playoff team.

What's scary is that golden state probably doesn't lose anybody this off-season unless they want to.

5/8/2016 3:11:19 PM

Quote :

"I mean hes better than kobe obviously. He's probably better than cousins too"

what makes him overrated? he's a phenomenal shooter- probably as good as Klay, who you also claimed earlier was the most overrated player in the NBA. just trying to figure out what makes them overrated in your eyes.

RE: Barnes. He's a fool for not taking the earlier offer. He's a gifted athlete, but he's incredibly inconsistent and doesn't really know how to turn on the intensity when the Ws need him. I'd much rather lose him than Livingston or Ezeli. No way he gets a max deal now with them.

[Edited on May 8, 2016 at 3:18 PM. Reason : .]

5/8/2016 3:11:45 PM

Man, if Jonas is out that changes things a ton. Kind of evens things back up. Injuries are really shaping these playoffs waaaaaay more than recent years.

5/8/2016 4:53:19 PM

Dion Waiters and Ibaka are both hot garbage. Donovan should be giving Adams 35+ minutes. If Kanter wasn't complete dogshit on D, the Thunder could have an awesome frontline with him and Adams.

I just can't believe the Thunder don't have anyone or couldn't acquire anyone to take Waiters minutes. You have two top-5 guys and a budding star in Adams and still won't win jack shit because they have the worst #2 guard in the league and a crap bench. Payne played tonight and had like 3 turnovers in 5 minutes.

5/8/2016 9:23:33 PM

Yeah, as much as Scotty Brooks made awful decisions with his rotations (and Donovan does too) which got him fired, in a lot of ways he was very limited in what he could do because OKC never did anything to replace Harden once they let him go, which has to be considered one of the worst GM decisions in NBA history.

I mean, they got nothing for Harden and didn't do anything to replace his scoring since then. It's pretty inexcusable that they still don't have another legit wing.

5/8/2016 10:04:01 PM

It's kind of unfair to expect them to just "replace Harden"

They drafted Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and James Harden, 3 years in a row. That's got to be the best 3-year draft combo in the history of the sport. It's fucking ridiculous. Can't keep em all. Durant will end up with no rings like Malone, Barkley, etc. No shame, but it is what it is.

5/8/2016 10:29:34 PM

what happened to jeff teague tonight? 22 minutes 5 points?

5/8/2016 10:41:52 PM

^^They traded him before they had to, and they ultimately let him go because they weren't willing to pay the tax for a year. If you have that core and you aren't willing to even consider paying the luxury tax you deserve to see your team break up without ever winning a title, which is what's going to happen.

That trade was bad not just because of the results, but because of the short term thinking that drove it. OKC's ownership deserves to be pilloried over that trade.

5/9/2016 2:52:42 AM

1) i can't see barnes as the 2nd best player on a playoff team. He's been worthless this year. But someone is gonna give him $22m a season you can bank on that. I don't believe it will be the warriors.

2) Ezeli is going to get $15-$18m a year for sure. I don't believe it will be the warriors but it's possible.

3) lillard is a complete zero on defense. He was terrible in the playoffs last year. He is a good player but people shit all over harden then talk about lillard like he's elite. Guys like lillard when they get hot they look amazing but you've got to look at the totality of their work. His size makes him tough to cover, but he can't cover anyone on the other end either. Being a defensive liability caps your value in the nba.

4) i didn't see the game but ibaka has been red hot in the playoffs. Waiters does suck but looks like had a good game.

5) i don't understand why they didn't use lamb instead of waiters. He can shoot and rebound

6) the harden trade was so bad because they just got nothing for him. And since then they made compounding error a trading for singler, waiters, kanter, etc trying to appease durant.

They shoulda waited a year to trade harden or gotten a better offer. Mcclendon was under huge financial pressures though. Ultimately he committed suicide over the whole thing

5/9/2016 3:22:16 AM

So Stephen Curry will fade away like Grant Hill? Another Jordan successor gets cursed!

Or he will recover and get his first FMVP? He's definitely pretty vulnerable.

5/9/2016 11:26:13 AM

If i had to set title odds right now I'd go something like

50% cleveland
25% sas
20% gsw
4% okc
1% por, tor, miami combined. And that's basically the nuclear option if every other team sustained massive injuries


It's crazy how overlooked cleveland was. And how some people are trying to downplay their 8-0 start. Atlanta was playing really good ball the 2nd half of the season and they swept them. Cleveland looks like a juggernaut right now especially with curry injured and sas-okc going both looking vulnerable


I think i like toronto over miami. Whiteside is just too important for that team. Derozan should be able to get to the basket now instead of having to rely on his jumper. Biyombo is going to force miami to take jumpers and give them a big rebounding advantage i think. Definitely an interesting twist to the series.

[Edited on May 9, 2016 at 12:39 PM. Reason : A]

5/9/2016 12:32:10 PM

Cleveland hasn't played anyone and the Spurs haven't looked all that great against OKC and the series could easily go 7. I say it's pretty wide open right now, between the Cavs/Dubs/Spurs/OKC. If Curry can't return to form, I'd probably give the edge to Cleveland, but that's a huge question mark right now.

5/9/2016 12:36:02 PM

If curry can't return to form i don't see them getting by sas for sure. I think gsw could still beat okc without curry at 100%. But cleveland is gonna wax the warriors if curry isn't curry.

I really hope golden state wins tonight. If they could win g4 and g5 the whole team would get some much needed rest and it gives curry the proper amount of time before he returns to action.

if he comes back before that knee is stabilized and rips something i will die inside. I don't want to get robbed of seeing how far he can take this thing the next few years.

[Edited on May 9, 2016 at 12:52 PM. Reason : A]

5/9/2016 12:41:12 PM

the spurs lose one game to god mode durant and westbrook and all of a sudden they are not as good as cleveland? lol.

Quote :

"Atlanta was playing really good ball the 2nd half of the season and they swept them. "

Playing well in the regular season is one thing, playoff success is another. The regular season is about maintaining focus and getting up for each game. Atlanta is a collection of good players with no star which really kills their chances. They can put themselves in position to win like in games 3 and 4 but they just have no closer to go to down the stretch. Those are the teams that win in the playoffs. Thats also why Atlanta struggled with sorry boston. Cleveland swept Atlanta last year as well. Detroit is just shit. Any good team would be at least 7-1.

Make no mistake cleveland is a contender because they have a good roster and 3 round bye but they haven't done anything to put them ahead of the two historically elite teams out west. They are very comparable to OKC in terms of how much of a threat they are.

The toronto miami series is completely irrelevant. Cleveland will likely sweep them as well.

5/9/2016 4:59:01 PM

Nowhere did i say cleveland was better than the spurs... they may be though

You are vastly underrating them though. They certainly might be the best team in the league I've been high on them for quite some time and they've really turned it up a notch.

I told you that Frye trade was big, they've got some tough lineups now. Thompson is just a machine.

Going 8-0 is very impressive. They broke the record for most 3 pointers in a series after THREE GAMES

5/9/2016 8:09:03 PM

if you gave the cavs a 50% odds to win it all that is at the very least saying them vs the western conference final is a 50-50 tossup but its most likely you didn't mean to give them 100% chance of winning the next series so then its most likely that you are giving them a slight edge over gsw/sas. it makes sense that you gave them the largest odds of any single team but i don't get how you gave them 50% instead of something lower or why there odds of winning the next series would be 100 instead of at most, something in the 90s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRCc3-ruNZ4


[Edited on May 9, 2016 at 8:24 PM. Reason : theres a 1000% chance that theres a 0% chance that lebron drives a kia]

5/9/2016 8:22:57 PM

Was basically just communicating that i think they are definitely getting to the finals and I think they're 50-50 to beat the western representative.

I didn't try to get exact. Maybe it's 47.8% idk. It was a quick estimate just saying i think they got a good shot and they're the clear favorites right now due to curry uncertainty and okc chance to knock out sas

5/9/2016 8:32:17 PM

if the cavs can keep up their 3 point shooting, i think they have a chance. Even though their competition hasn't been elite, sweeping 2 teams isn't something to overlook.

5/9/2016 8:35:06 PM

Of course Cleveland will make it to the Finals. I don't think a single person on here would seriously be able to suggest otherwise. Who would stop them? TO? haha

[Edited on May 9, 2016 at 8:36 PM. Reason : .]

5/9/2016 8:35:51 PM

That wasn't a revelation. The 2nd half of that is what's important. I think they are 50-50 vs the west. That's the key part of the statement.

I like them against gsw. I like sas slightly over cleveland bc they can guard lebron

5/9/2016 8:49:24 PM

you are mistaking by thinking about things in terms of last yeasr series + kyrie and love. The warriors are so much better on both sides this year and the individual growth of their stars has been exceptional as well.

5/9/2016 8:58:58 PM

All of this is meaningless without knowing how Curry is going to play. If he comes back full-strength, the Ws will win the title again. Anything less than that is going to be too hard to predict imo. He's too valuable to his team and how they operate.

FWIW, it looks like he will play tonight. My guess is less than 20 mins, but who knows.

[Edited on May 9, 2016 at 9:10 PM. Reason : .]

5/9/2016 9:09:27 PM

Ifs really a shame that the nba hasnt drveloped a more efficient way to get moisture off of the floor

5/9/2016 10:48:45 PM

Wade with the shot of the playoffs

5/9/2016 10:49:33 PM

barnes and ezeli have been outed in the locker room as future lakers. this is really the only reasonable way to explain barnes' play

5/10/2016 1:12:46 AM

Bogut is worthless nowadays

5/10/2016 1:19:53 AM

he's still an elite passer who does a ton of dirty work for them

a pretty key player who isn't close to being worthless

[Edited on May 10, 2016 at 1:28 AM. Reason : .]

5/10/2016 1:27:43 AM