I am curious about Jacob's interaction with Hurley. He is the only one that Jacob sort of "came out" too and discussed the island with. He also basically gave him the same speech that he gave Ben at the end ("it's your choice....")

Does this imply that Hurley will be more important next season? Why him? Jacob doesn't really let any of the other losties he talks to know who/what he is.

5/14/2009 12:42:37 AM

Hurley and Sayid were the only ones that he talked to that had actually been to the island already at the point he met up with them, it wouldn't have made any sense to tell the others who he was or where he was from, especially not Sawyer or Kate as they were just little kids

5/14/2009 12:46:25 AM

true, but he didn't really do anything to let Sayid know that he had anything to do with the island. He did seem to save his life, but that is a far cry from his interaction with Hurley.

And can we now assume that the Christian Shepperd we have been seeing is the same as the fake Locke (Anti-Jacob guy)?

5/14/2009 12:49:34 AM

i don't think he was saving Sayids life, i think he was making sure his wife died (which led to him working with Ben, killing all those people, and eventually coming back to the island)

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 12:52 AM. Reason : $$$]

5/14/2009 12:51:47 AM

Quote :

"what did Jacob mean when Ben asked him "What about me?" and Jacob said "What about you?" and Ben looked really confused?"

It was a condescending reply, which makes me think Jacob wanted Ben to kill him (yeah, that and the fact he didn't defend himself at all).

5/14/2009 12:54:02 AM

maybe...
I mean, we don't exactly know if Jacob is the "good guy" out of this duo.
It certainly seems like it though, but you know how this show loves to twist things up.

ok, Jacob was the good guy.

5/14/2009 12:54:24 AM

I'm going to go ahead and pitch my tent in the "Maybe Jacob isn't good" camp.

I love the wonderful transition the Others got over the seasons... from kidnapper/murderers, to Locke's neutral friends, and now they are the "good guys"?

Why?

5/14/2009 12:57:42 AM

my big question is what is Lapidus a potential (or canidate, i forget what exactly they called him)for?

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 1:14 AM. Reason : $$$]

5/14/2009 1:00:55 AM

reading those list of unanswered questions tells me they have definitely been making shit up as they go along. I think they intended for characters like Alvar Hanso to be more important in the long run but changed it up as they went along

decent finale.. Jacob was kind of distracting because I kept thinking of him as Rita's ex-husband from Dexter

5/14/2009 1:39:39 AM

THAT'S IT!
the whole time I was thinking, 'where the fuck do I know this guy from?!"

5/14/2009 1:45:04 AM

Rose and Bernard's scene was weird.... the last part about "do you want to have some tea"? and juliette, "Maybe next time" was very weird... the way the camera angles and the music played, there is something more to it.

Juliette almost acted like she was pregnant...

5/14/2009 5:51:27 AM

I told all of you the bomb would go off, but of course nobody believed me... and boom!

5/14/2009 8:25:10 AM

Quote :

"decent finale.. Jacob was kind of distracting because I kept thinking of him as Rita's ex-husband from Dexter"

oh!!!!!!! i couldn't figure that out (and didn't look it up).

5/14/2009 8:35:58 AM

Quote :

"reading those list of unanswered questions tells me they have definitely been making shit up as they go along. I think they intended for characters like Alvar Hanso to be more important in the long run but changed it up as they went along "

There is no way they could have made this up as they went along. I mean just because they signed Michael Emerson (Ben) to a few episodes and then he suddenly became one of the biggest characters in the story line doesn't mean they were making it up on the fly.

5/14/2009 9:08:20 AM

Quote :

"and did anybody see my question about Chang's arm in a sling in one of the Dharma videos?"

Here is a video from ComicCon last year with Chang talking to, i think, Farraday. It sounds like Farraday has told him what's going to happen, and Chang looks at his hand several times kind of like "damn, i'm going to miss this hand"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo6Q7gzUjI8

5/14/2009 9:22:17 AM

It has already been said that wasnt canon

5/14/2009 9:24:24 AM

Does anybody else think that Jacob being killed by Ben was actually part of Jacob's plan? I mean they've been visiting and re-visiting the concept of self-sacrifice throughout the show. Jacob's words to Ben, "What about you?" obviously hurt Ben deeply and drove him over the edge. Jacob could've talked his way out of it, but instead he instigated Ben.

The writers draw inspiration from many religions, theories, cultures, etc. Christianity is one of the largest, and the parallels b/t Jacob and Jesus/God were pretty blatant to me. Guidance, teaching, healing, resurrection (Locke's fall, not Locke 2.0). Jesus died to save mankind from their sins, Jacob died [in the shadow of the statue] as "He who will save us all" ? (btw, thanks for the translation)

I agree with the game/bet/contest theory, when Jacob was talking to the dude on the beach and Guy #2 says, "Are you trying to prove me wrong?" It seems that Jacob wants to prove something about mankind, perhaps that they are good or worth saving, or something.

I'm sure like a lot of y'all, I called Locke 2.0 not actually being Locke from the get go, and that Locke's body was in the Ajira crate. Nice to get confirmation. Hell of an episode.

5/14/2009 9:27:01 AM

meh. so i guess the statue is Taweret...


(and the smoke monster (who lives below the horizon) is Apep? Probably not, but we'll see)


^Yeah, Jacob put up no fight, like he knew it was coming. He seemed bored and ready to die.



[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 9:44 AM. Reason : 22]

5/14/2009 9:35:55 AM

Well that was weird to say the least.

I would say that they show needs more Desmond but then they'd find some way to kill him and I would immediately stop watching. First Mr. Ecko, then Daniel. I don't think I could take another hit like that. I warmed up the whole Juliet/Sawyer thing too which leads me to believe that he's just going to revert back to being bitter and angry. I liked the thinking leader side of him.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 9:47 AM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 9:44:02 AM

Quote :

"He who will save us all"

According to Lost and Gone Forever:

Quote :

""Ille qui nos omnes servabit", which means "he whom we all serve.""

I don't know Latin, but my French and Spanish say that's probably correct.

5/14/2009 9:44:47 AM

Haha, when i watched it last night I heard "El equinos" and I was like "The Horses" something...

5/14/2009 9:52:14 AM

i dont know if this has been mentioned, but if the smoke monster can take different forms, maybe it was originally the guy at the beginning in black, or pretending to be him. he wanted to kill jacob then, but couldnt for whatever reason i guess...so he comes back later as locke 2.0 and ben's daughter to make ben kill jacob.

did that make sense?

5/14/2009 9:58:45 AM

Quote :

""reading those list of unanswered questions tells me they have definitely been making shit up as they go along. I think they intended for characters like Alvar Hanso to be more important in the long run but changed it up as they went along ""

Actually most of those questions are pretty weak. They have either already been answered or are entirely insignificant to the plot line.

5/14/2009 10:09:49 AM

Now you have to wonder who Christian is...

5/14/2009 10:10:09 AM

Quote :

"i dont know if this has been mentioned, but if the smoke monster can take different forms, maybe it was originally the guy at the beginning in black, or pretending to be him. he wanted to kill jacob then, but couldnt for whatever reason i guess...so he comes back later as locke 2.0 and ben's daughter to make ben kill jacob."

Quote :

"Now you have to wonder who Christian is..."

yeah, now that we know the "Man #2" is some kind of shape-shifter, that kind of puts everything we saw "Locke" do in S5 into question. You would need to re-watch all of S5, then study what Locke does in every scene he's in, but look at it instead like it's Man #2 posing as Locke.

It's probably pretty clear that Christian is actually Man #2 as well

Quote :

"But Jacob's story is also as short as it is long. And it ends with one of the best surprises in the series: Locke did not come back to life when Flight 316 crashed on the island this season. No, not at all. The Locke who has been walking around on the island is the man who was talking to Jacob on the shore all those centuries or whenever ago. He has somehow taken Locke's form, and in that form goads Ben into killing Jacob. That, apparently was the loophole - the man could not kill Jacob himself, but he could drive someone else to do that... Which may explain a lot of things. Let's say no ever came back to the life on the island? Coming back to life certainly seems like news to Richard - his people can cure the critically wounded, not the dead. That's why young Ben but not Faraday was saved. Did this shape-shifter look like Christian, to manipulate Jack; look like Alex to manipulate Ben; and who knows who else?"

http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2009/05/lost-season-5-jacob-and-locke.html

5/14/2009 10:20:14 AM

So if Christian is Man #2 / Smokey / whatever Faux Locke is, where is Christian's body? Man #2 obviously doesn't need the body proper to assume its form. Was the empty coffin at the caves just a red herring? And why would a fake Christian tell Locke to say hello to his son?

5/14/2009 10:23:05 AM

^He said, "Say hello to my son" so Locke would make the connection and share that info with Jack, to help convince Jack to come back to the island. Locke telling Jack that message and who it was from helped to drive Jack to his faith/destiny mentality and heading back to the island.

Also, maybe he does need a body on the island to do certain things. Obviously he doesn't re-animate/possess those bodies, but he's taken on the form of Yemi, Christian, and Locke who's bodies are all on the island. I know he's taken other forms of ppl not dead on the island, but rarely does he manifest to multiple people simultaneously. Just a thought.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 10:36 AM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 10:32:01 AM

And also we've seen "ghost" Christian off the island right? In that Season 4 episode when Jack was in the hospital and the smoke alarm (smoke monster setting off the smoke alarm??) kept going off, he walked out to check on it and saw Christian sitting there, then his coworker came out and Christian was gone. I don't know if the shape shifter can leave the island though.

5/14/2009 10:37:39 AM

Anyone else think that Jacob's going to pull an Obi-Wan?

"You can't win, Darth Faux Locke. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

Also, Mark (Jacob/Paul) Pellegrinohas' characters have no luck.

5/14/2009 10:37:48 AM

Quote :

"And also we've seen "ghost" Christian off the island right? In that Season 4 episode when Jack was in the hospital and the smoke alarm (smoke monster setting off the smoke alarm??) kept going off, he walked out to check on it and saw Christian sitting there, then his coworker came out and Christian was gone."

no, i think that was probably Jack just going crazy. I think there is a difference between Christian on the island, who has been seen by several people, and Christian off the island, who is probably a hallucination

5/14/2009 10:40:26 AM

Quote :

"Also, maybe he does need a body on the island to do certain things. Obviously he doesn't re-animate/possess those bodies, but he's taken on the form of Yemi, Christian, and Locke who's bodies are all on the island. I know he's taken other forms of ppl not dead on the island, but rarely does he manifest to multiple people simultaneously. Just a thought."

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant.

5/14/2009 10:43:16 AM

I don't know that the monster necessarily needs the physical body, but I think he needs the person to be dead to appear like them. I think it's like a shape-shifter type thing where it can take on the appearance/access memories of people who have died and have their bodies on the island somewhere. Like how Miles can access memories of people who are dead and the body is near, perhaps the monster needs the body to access memories too.

And I don't think I buy the "red herring" idea that they're tricking them. Notice when Ben saw his daughter in the temple, fake John just happened to walk away from the hole for a few minutes, and then came back once it was all over. I think it just makes the most sense for the monster to be projecting himself as Locke(since he is the known leader of the others and could get to Jacob), but typically in this show, making sense has little meaning, haha.

5/14/2009 10:55:56 AM

btw, Ileana was looking for "Ricardus"? I guess that is what Richard's actual name is from whatever civilization he is from, and he just changed it to fit in better with modern society?

5/14/2009 11:22:50 AM

It's Latin

That's how Juliet referred to him in 1954

5/14/2009 11:42:22 AM

do we really know that the guy who went and interacted with everyone is Jacob? I don't recall anyone calling him Jacob or the other guy from the beginning by name. Maybe the other guy is Jacob? And I couldn't find his name on imdb or anything legit as Jacob. There's a post a couple pages back that quotes something stating he's Jacob, but it also says that he's at a wedding with a bunch of asian people but that it's not Jin and Sun's wedding. Well, it was... so I have no reason to believe any other part of that quote.

Also, maybe the blondish hair guy was always on the island in the statue base and it was the other guy who went off the island and interacted with everyone? It's definitely him impersonating Locke, the blonde hair guy said "I see you've found your loophole." So why couldn't he impersonate the blonde headed guy as well? I'm not saying this is the case, I'm just asking if we really know otherwise.

Also, what was the deal with the ash? When bram said "look at the ash?" Was he pointing out the ash in general, or the break in the ash?

She also said that someone else had been using the cabin. Which makes me think maybe whoever Locke (real locke) talked to in the cabin wasn't actually Jacob to begin with, or maybe jacob had just recently moved. Whoever was using it left the thing with the picture of the statue. When they looked at it, they didn't seem happy to be going there necessarily. It actually seemed as if it was a bad thing. I'm not really sure what to make of that, just putting it out there.

5/14/2009 11:58:15 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esau

man #2?

my buddy mentioned it as an obvious thought when I asked him about #2...I'm not convinced.

5/14/2009 11:58:17 AM

Quote :

"I don't recall anyone calling him Jacob or the other guy from the beginning by name."

Man #2 called him Jacob in the opening scene.

Quote :

"Also, what was the deal with the ash? When bram said "look at the ash?" Was he pointing out the ash in general, or the break in the ash?"

I think the ash worked as some sort of barrier, keeping Jacob or whoever trapped inside. The break in the ash signified that the person/spirit/being had escaped.

The whole cabin scene was pretty confusing, though.

5/14/2009 12:01:25 PM

^especially after the scene with rose and bernard

I was like-- why are they going to rose and bernards old cabin???

5/14/2009 12:19:14 PM

OK, i didn't catch him referring to him as Jacob.

Yeah, i thought the ash was a barrier and the break meant whatever was there could have escaped. What I don't get about that is that I thought they were expecting Jacob in there, and the way they interacted with Richard made it seem like they were on Jacob's side (especially if it really was Jacob who asked her to help in the hospital). So wouldn't a break in the ash be a good thing if it was being used to trap Jacob? Maybe it was meant to keep something out instead of in? Which would make sense of it causing concern for them before going into the cabin.

I still can't make sense of the picture of the statue seeming to cause alarm with them if "what lies in the shadow of the statue" is a good thing. Unless maybe it's a last resort place for him to hide out.

Quote :

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esau man #2? my buddy mentioned it as an obvious thought when I asked him about #2...I'm not convinced"

not that crazy as far as inspiration for the characters maybe. There was a fake novel that showed up in the early seasons called "Bad Twin." I think they showed sawyer reading it a couple of times. It was eventually made into an actual book. I don't know if the idea for the book came first and the writers put it in the show, or the other way around. But the "bad twin" deal certainly fits the Jacob and Esau story.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM. Reason : quote/comment]

5/14/2009 12:24:39 PM

Bounty hunter woman also called him Jacob while in the hospital.

I wonder if the reason we heard "help me" mentioned in the cabin when locke was there that one time was because the other spirit, the one trapped by the ashe, requested the help. Jacob never spoke to Ben so maybe the real Jacob never spoke to locke, either, excluding that one time when he fell down.

Also i really liked how Sawyer pointed out he could have gone back and stopped his dad from killing his family, but he didn't. It plays into the whatever happened happened.

Also the Juliet scene really did make me . I fancy her so and also enjoyed the sawyer juliet dynamic.

5/14/2009 12:52:41 PM

I'm pretty convinced that the man in the cabin was Esau, not Jacob.

I also really liked the fact that Jacob caught a red herring at the beginning.

5/14/2009 1:03:01 PM

I wonder why people think that Jacob's enemy was an apparition both as Locke and as Alex. I get the Bad-guy-posing-as-Locke part... but didn't "bad Locke" only decide to use Ben as his weapon of choice after Ben told him what the Island had told him? ("Do what Locke tells you to do.") At that point "bad Locke" seemed like a light bulb went off in his head and he had his plan figured out. If he was both "bad Alex" and "bad Locke" then there'd be no need for this.

5/14/2009 1:45:26 PM

Does anyone know anything about that book that Jacob was reading before Locke fell out of the window?

5/14/2009 1:46:12 PM

Quote :

"Also i really liked how Sawyer pointed out he could have gone back and stopped his dad from killing his family, but he didn't. It plays into the whatever happened happened."

I liked that as well. and like he said, how bad are things that you need to detonate a bomb to try to make it never happen. I mean, sawyer lost both is parents very tragically. But he wasn't willing to sacrifice his actual life and everything he'd experienced in exchange for that.

^^^ hmm, had no clue what an actual red herring looked like.

^^ locke #2 (i'm not ready to call him "bad" just yet) seemed to be telling/doing people exactly what people needed in order to do what he wanted.

^ not really. but the title was "Everything that Rises Must Converge." I took it as a reference to the separate plots on the island coming together. Don't really no though

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 1:54 PM. Reason : book.]

5/14/2009 1:51:57 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_That_Rises_Must_Converge

5/14/2009 1:52:28 PM

^^^^ I don't entirely subscribe to the theory that Man #2 was posing as Alex, but it kind of makes sense. Man #2 would know that Ben would listen to Alex. So by posing as Alex, he could convince Ben to follow Faux Locke (also Man #2) and kill Jacob.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 1:57 PM. Reason : ^]

5/14/2009 1:56:44 PM

Quote :

"but didn't "bad Locke" only decide to use Ben as his weapon of choice after Ben told him what the Island had told him? ("Do what Locke tells you to do.") At that point "bad Locke" seemed like a light bulb went off in his head and he had his plan figured out. If he was both "bad Alex" and "bad Locke" then there'd be no need for this."

not really, after ben told locke2.0 that he had to do whatever he was told, locke2.0 said something like "oh so now i dont have to convince you"

5/14/2009 2:00:31 PM

Quote :

"oh so now i dont have to convince you"

right... and most people seem to think locke 2.0 and the smoke monster/apparitions are all on the same team, the same force

so shouldn't locke 2.0 know that ben was ready to do whatever he wanted already? the whole scene was pointless

edit: w/ Ernie, I guess it just depends on what you think in terms of whether alex apparition and locke 2.0 are the same scheming guy

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 2:07 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 2:07:00 PM

i don't think it was pointless considering the audience didn't necessarily know yet. And as i mentioned, he was telling people exactly what they needed to hear to get his way. ehh, maybe the time could have been used elsewhere for the show. but I don't think it's a big deal.

Quote :

"I don't entirely subscribe to the theory that Man #2 was posing as Alex, but it kind of makes sense. Man #2 would know that Ben would listen to Alex. So by posing as Alex, he could convince Ben to follow Faux Locke (also Man #2) and kill Jacob."

Even knowing that locke went out of sight, the smoke monster appeared and left, then Alex appeared and disappeared, then Locke returns a few minutes later? It's certainly not concrete, but I think it lends one to believe (especially now that we're being led to believe that this is not Locke, but the guy at the beginning in the form of Locke) that Locke and smokey and alex were not there at the same time because they're the same entity. Well at least Alex and Locke. I mean how many shape shifters can there be?

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 2:14 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 2:12:20 PM

^ I agree. Everyone that was watching with me during that scene said, "wow, locke = smoke monster"...

is it so far fetched to believe, no, actually smoke monster = locke

5/14/2009 2:25:18 PM