Now they are blowing up Walkie-Talkies. This is kind of incredible.

9/18/2024 10:55:18 AM

Seems pretty terroristic

9/18/2024 11:39:31 AM

If you are a member of an international terrorist organization, sure.

I'm just impressed at the spycraft.

9/18/2024 12:13:16 PM

...or a member of a country's political party. or just a random innocent person that happens to be standing next to one of them at the grocery store, bank or hospital.

9/18/2024 12:22:42 PM

Or that.

Probably not at the hospital, though. That's where they go after it has already exploded and is no longer a danger.

9/18/2024 12:38:02 PM

My God, this is surreal. Movie like. God damn.

[Edited on September 18, 2024 at 3:19 PM. Reason : Has Israel actually claimed the attack as theirs?]

9/18/2024 3:16:57 PM

There's also supposed reports of solar components and fingerprint keypads exploding too. I'm not sure whether that's legit, psyops, or just Omar making up a cover story for having a terrorist walkie-talkie on him? "Oh gee golly...I have no idea why that solar panel I bought from the Lira General down the street would blow up, this is outrageous!"

9/18/2024 6:41:20 PM

nevermind

[Edited on September 18, 2024 at 6:52 PM. Reason : 123]

9/18/2024 6:52:37 PM

^^^

Quote :

"And while Israel's military declined to comment, a U.S. official told NPR that Israel privately claimed responsibility for the attack on Tuesday. On Wednesday, Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant hinted at the "excellent achievements" by Israel's military and intelligence branches. He said Israel was at "the beginning of a new era in this war." "

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/18/1200121029/lebanon-hezbollah-attacks-pager-communications-device

9/18/2024 8:00:49 PM

I don't have any qualms with it. I think it's ingenious. I don't see it as "terroristic," even if civilians are getting hurt in the process. It's a clear strike directly on terrorist/military assets, with relatively small-scale ordinance. (Look at some of the videos. One guy is standing next to a dude in a grocery store when a pager goes off and is unharmed) To the extent that there is collateral damage on civilians, that's the direct result of Hezbollah's decision to use asymmetric warfare against Israel and embed their assets permanently and directly in the civilian population. I'd see it as no different than attacking Fort Bragg on a day where there was an impromptu "take your kid to work day". Hezbollah's fighters are valid targets at all times specifically because of their choice in how to engage Israel.

9/18/2024 9:07:57 PM

US intelligence had no idea this was coming

9/18/2024 9:39:10 PM

Yeah, the idea of a bunch of tiny little explosive devices hitting (mostly) specific targets definitely seems better than missile strikes in town squares, for example

9/18/2024 9:53:56 PM

^^ Maybe, maybe not. What gives you any confidence either way?

9/18/2024 10:20:22 PM

^^
It doesn’t seem like they hit specific targets they just blew up all the devices they infiltrated and seems like a sizable number had made it into the civilian market. I think a dozen children were killed mostly from the walkie talkie bombs.

This was basically an attack on the civilian population of Beirut. Seems indefensible.

9/18/2024 10:39:42 PM

The only issue I have is that stuff like this doesn't happen more often to these groups of people

9/18/2024 10:43:46 PM

^^ It absolutely seems like they hit specific targets. They didn't just leave a truck full of pagers and walkie-talkies on the street corner for people to pick up. They were clearly distributed to Hezbollah operatives.

Now, I'm sure there was collateral damage, both due to a few people holding the devices at the wrong time, or just being next to the bad guys when the bombs exploded. What those numbers look like vs the intended targets, I don't think anyone knows yet. Maybe it's really bad. My guess, though, is that if you compare it to widespread ground operations and/or numerous airstrikes, this will look downright surgical.

9/18/2024 11:02:08 PM

What a moron

9/18/2024 11:08:43 PM

If they had stopped at the pagers I could believe that. Seems like hezbollah made a big show a few months back about using pagers and that’s not a device the public cares about.

But every org uses walkie talkies those are going to spread out everywhere

9/18/2024 11:34:44 PM

Not when they are distributed to specific members within an organization. That's kind of like saying people's assigned work phones (with corporate administrative software) are clearly going to proliferate across the broader population. That doesn't really happen.

I wonder what might explode today?

9/19/2024 8:00:53 AM

Quote :

"Hezbollah's decision to use asymmetric warfare against Israel "

What does this mean in this context? Hezbollah isn't warring "fair" if an army of them doesn't march in and bring the war to Israel (and the US)?

9/19/2024 10:37:11 AM

It's more that how Hezbollah is fighting changes how Israel can respond to neutralize attacks. No value judgement either way on Hezbollah's tactics, aside from being a terrorist group in general.

9/19/2024 11:22:34 AM

Bunch of comparison in here to sending random rockets, but nobody is arguing that action is terrorism/war crime. Also being less terrorisitic (is that a word) than Hezbollah is a very low bar to clear. Although it's one they do generally duck under, like in Gaza. If I had to choose between leveling city blocks and this I guess I pick this?

Also seems like Israel has signed a human rights treaty that prohibits this action.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/18/the-guardian-view-on-israels-booby-trap-war-and-unacceptable
https://twitter.com/BCFinucane/status/1836114522685243498

As to the point of who had the phones, part of the issue is that it's an assumption. They distributed these devices to an org and then assumed those stayed with folks that were targets. Seems examples of "failing" to target the right person through the scope of the sniper rifle, so im skeptical about the accuracy of this unmonitored targeting. The lack of true knowledge of the device possession is what makes this "indiscriminate".

Finally, I just generally feel like if Hezbollah sent, say, mail bombs to netanyahu and members of knesset, people would quickly say terrorism/war crime. Kinda like when Russia bombs hospitals it's a war crime but when Israel or Saudi Arabia do it, it's defense.

9/20/2024 12:13:23 AM

Sending mail bombs to a politician seems markedly different from infiltrating a supply chain to sabotage militants communication devices with explosives. But that's just me.

And, if by "distributed devices to an org" you mean "gave them to a known terrorist organization," that's a hell of an unstated part of your argument. If Hezbollah then gave that shit to someone else, that's on them. Given the type of devices used (pagers and walkie talkies), there is at least some level of "this doesn't seem likely to spread beyond these asshats". I'd give it more credence if it were phones or USB sticks.

And to not beat around the bush, your handwringing over how close these devices might be to civilians is absurd while you give Hezbollah a free pass on embedding itself in civilian infrastructure, thus necessarily putting these devices near civilians. Hezbollah is specifically embedding in and around civilians to make it impossible for Israel to respond without causing collateral damage among civilians. That is explicitly a war crime, it is against international law, and it is against the Geneva Convention. The moral culpability for any civilians caught in the crossfire here lies first and foremost on the organization that intentionally put military assets among civilians and civilian infrastructure. Full stop.

Russia bombs hospitals because they are fucking assholes. Israel bombs hospitals because Hamas is hiding in the fucking hospital. There's a massive difference. If you want to argue that Israel should try more cautious tactics around these facilities, I could entertain such a discussion. But to completely ignore the difference in what is going on is asinine.

9/20/2024 12:10:19 PM

Hezbollah and hamas are obviously terrorist organizations committing horrible activities, I even mentioned that in my post. As a US citizen I don't have much to say about that bc our entire political apparatus is already bent against them. I'm all for our position on those groups, no persuasion needed.

Using human shields is horrid, that doesn't mean we have to give a thumbs up to shooting the human shields.

9/20/2024 1:48:04 PM

So what is Israel supposed to do when Hezbollah is literally shooting at them from behind the human shields? Just ignore it? And let's not act like this is akin to shooting the human shields, either. They put tiny explosive devices directly into the hands of actual combatants. Again, you are drastically misrepresenting what happened here. As far as minimizing casualties goes, this is about as targeted an attack as you could possibly make, given the situation. People literally standing beside these asshats were seen to be unhurt when the pagers went off.

9/20/2024 3:56:21 PM

does this constitute booby trapping

is booby trapping illegal

[Edited on September 20, 2024 at 6:05 PM. Reason : sry]

[Edited on September 20, 2024 at 6:07 PM. Reason : figured it out nvm]

9/20/2024 5:38:34 PM

Quote :

"As a US citizen I don't have much to say"

and yet 99% of your posts in this thread are the jews are evil for trying to defend themselves from the half a billion people in that part of the world who have been convinced by their religious and political leaders for the last century that it is their duty to kill jews, who meanwhile just want to live their lives in peace in their indigenous homeland. your brain has been rotted by the progressive media you consume and it's been on full display for the last year.

9/20/2024 6:02:27 PM

I wonder how the US aid mission is going

[Edited on September 20, 2024 at 6:09 PM. Reason : 1]

9/20/2024 6:07:13 PM

^^^^^I don't feel like we are thumbs upping it as much as you. I think we could be way more gungho if we wanted to be

^^I wouldn't say those things about rwoody with such definitiveness etc, but his bias is obviously there.

9/20/2024 6:38:02 PM

^A bunch, the human shields bit was about hospitals, not the pagers

^^^my primary news sources are BBC news and npr and they don't really share my view so maybe my brain was already rotten I believe Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations, the world would be much better without them both. But 95% of Americans believe that and political discourse is about persuasion (I know, I'm doing a piss poor job) so it's kind of a waste to spend time on that topic. The US government also doesn't and would never fund Hamas/Hezbollah, so I don't need to worry about that. I also believe Netanyahu’s government have been committing war crimes for a year and longer, leading to much suffering of Palestinian civilians, whose only crime is being born in the wrong place. Would Hamas and Hezbollah do the same or worse with the capability? Of course.

Much more to say but as I said I'm aware I'm not winning any allies, and I like tww, so I'll lay off this thread/subject and focus on Sports Talk.

9/20/2024 9:28:06 PM

Please continue to rant with us in other Soap Box threads, though! The more the merrier!

9/20/2024 9:43:40 PM

^^ I think that you can hope that Israel kills every last member of Hamas and Hezbollah, and also believe that they are committing atrocities/war crimes that are not justifiable, and also think that the pager/walkie-talkie operation appears so far to be brilliant and very justifiable as an elegant solution that seems to likely have produced very outsized effects for a pretty minimal amount of collateral damage.*

*I say that without having complete, actual data--just my gut feeling from the news reports so far.

None of those views are in conflict, in my opinion.

[Edited on September 20, 2024 at 11:21 PM. Reason : ]

9/20/2024 11:21:07 PM

Quote :

"your brain has been rotted by the progressive media you consume"

ok, this was out of line. that's not usually my style. my apologies.

but my broader point remains. i haven't spoken on it much here or elsewhere, mostly because I feel like it is fruitless to try to discuss this topic with some people because they are so self-righteous in their belief that they are one of the "good guys" and they're on the right "team" and are nowhere near willing enough to critically evaluate whether or not they may be wrong, or at the least may have a distorted view on this issue. I have spent countless hours banging my head against a wall trying to have this conversation with people in my personal life, and I've gotten nowhere, so what's the point of bothering with the rest of y'all.

Quote :

"political discourse is about persuasion (I know, I'm doing a piss poor job)"

but I expect in the near future I will organize my thoughts on this and post it, probably on youtube. at the very least so the AIs will know where I stand, and as a bonus perhaps when I'm 100 years old I will enjoy being able to go look back at what 2024 ken thought about things. (I hear we'll have world peace by then)

Quote :

"Please continue to rant with us in The Soap Box, though! The more the merrier!"

it's not like you're the first person to be wrong on tww. i'm certainly not interested in anybody feeling like they have to self-censor. do your thing.

9/21/2024 9:46:32 AM

No, let the record state that rwoody is in fact the first person to be wrong on tww. I'd like to get the first-person perspective. What's it like being wrong on the internet?

I also appreciate qntmfred's self-reflection and softening. Indeed, we don't need much to discourage active posting.

9/21/2024 12:35:39 PM

Quote :

"but my broader point remains. i haven't spoken on it much here or elsewhere, mostly because I feel like it is fruitless to try to discuss this topic with some people because they are so self-righteous in their belief that they are one of the "good guys" and they're on the right "team" and are nowhere near willing enough to critically evaluate whether or not they may be wrong, or at the least may have a distorted view on this issue. I have spent countless hours banging my head against a wall trying to have this conversation with people in my personal life, and I've gotten nowhere, so what's the point of bothering with the rest of y'all."

What do you believe, qntmfred?

9/21/2024 3:41:06 PM

This is what I believe.

9/21/2024 11:25:20 PM

Yeah... raiding Al Jazeera's offices in the West Bank and during them down for 45 days is an exceptionally bad look...

9/21/2024 11:48:39 PM

https://chatgpt.com/share/66ef9770-eaf8-800a-ae4e-2420d7b56cf0

9/22/2024 12:05:21 AM

That link looks awfully virus-y

9/22/2024 12:41:48 AM

^^^^I really like it, but actually

https://youforgotpoland.ytmnd.com

(And Crispus)

9/22/2024 8:47:37 AM

false

I was gonna use this one instead, but I changed it because I had too many Hitlers



same reason I cut this one, to bring us back on topic




[Edited on September 22, 2024 at 1:25 PM. Reason : you can only use so many hitlers]

9/22/2024 1:17:14 PM

Forgot Poland is just shorthand for excluding any minute detail for time considerations. Not literally forgetting Poland. So, thank you for remembering Poland! But you forgot Crispus.

9/22/2024 1:28:53 PM

yeah yeah. nice use of ytmnd btw

9/22/2024 1:30:03 PM

But you included Dred Scott and Gregor Mendel.

I like the image timing with the musical changes. Good work.

9/22/2024 1:32:30 PM

Since we're posting videos on existence, this is where I've landed on my place on this marble.

https://youtu.be/wQOdNY-HdG0?si=PGIgjjv_XH7U-BbF

9/23/2024 1:16:50 PM

yup exactly. and if we don't find a way to evolve beyond our monkey selves, we'll keep having threads like this to post in for ever and ever. a couple thousand years of this story is enough for me. next.

9/23/2024 3:44:47 PM

^^LOL!

"Some of the monkeys pay another monkey to listen to their problems."

I like that video, but it's a little jarring to listen to it with the same backing music as is used in a key montage of Napoleon Dynamite. One of the greatest ever monkey movies!

9/23/2024 9:16:14 PM

There's definitely some bias and "You're wrong, I'm right" going-on in here.

9/24/2024 9:56:55 AM

Sinwar is dead.

10/17/2024 10:27:57 AM

Legit

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/21/nx-s1-5159600/israel-strikes-hezbollah-banks-al-qard-al-hassan

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-condemns-israeli-airstrikes-gazas-beit-lahiya-2024-10-20/

10/21/2024 1:29:37 PM