so, the prevalent theory so far is that man #2 = smoke monster somehow = locke and christian and alex, and all the other people that are dead...

I still think something is up with rose and bernard and juliette...
they offered her some tea and it was an awkward moment..juliette kinda grabbed her stomach..possibly pregnant i say

5/14/2009 3:30:00 PM

She's not pregnant.

Er, she wasn't pregnant, bitch is dead. And even if she isn't, the fall probably smooshed the baby.

And if she was pregnant, you think she'd be running around the island shooting people and being shot at, all the while risking her her life and the baby's? You think that would be cool but she'd turn down a cup of tea?

What?

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:38 PM. Reason : Who cares anyway?]

5/14/2009 3:33:53 PM

i think there is more to that story than meets the eye. but i also believe juliet's response was largely due to the impact she was feeling from sawyer looking at kate.

5/14/2009 3:39:58 PM

Quote :

"Er, she wasn't pregnant, bitch is dead."

Then whose green eye opened in the preview?

I.e. when they awake in the present first episode of next season.

5/14/2009 3:43:26 PM

I don't know, I didn't watch the preview. I'm sure there are other people with green eyes. Or maybe it was Faux Juliet. Beats me.

5/14/2009 3:44:41 PM

jack's most definitely.

also i don't know for sure if that is actually a scene from next season or if they were just showing clips

5/14/2009 3:45:28 PM

It was female, and greener.

5/14/2009 3:47:30 PM

Quote :

"when they awake in the present first episode of next season."

Beyond assuming that's Juliet's eye, you're really just making up stuff here.

Present? First episode? Who knows what's up with that eye?

5/14/2009 3:48:33 PM

Has anyone considered that the way Desmond moved around in time (as well as the rats Daniel was experimenting on) doesn't seem to be the same as the the oceanic 6? Or maybe their experience is just lasting a lot longer and they'll eventually go back somehow?

When Desmond was moving around, it was really his mind/conscience that was going back and forth between the times. And with the rats, I seem to recall Daniel saying he was able to send them to the future, but not the future in which the maze was completed because he was sort of doing so by trial and error (i may be mistaken about this). He had Desmond tell him the "coordinates" that ended up working (something like 2.xx @ 48Hz I think) for the rats so he would believe he was from the future. Those coordinates worked and the rat was able to solve the maze because it had already learned it in the future it went to. It was almost as if there were different possible futures and he needed to find the coordinates for the one in which the maze existed. Or the one that was on the same string of time that they were currently on. I don't know, maybe I'm remembering wrong and I'm way off. But that's how i recall it and I'm wondering if it will will ever come up again on the show. It really hasn't been touched on since desmond was all whacked out going back and forth between the freighter and when he was in the military.

It seemed pretty significant at the time though, and I imagined it would be important to the show. But it hasn't really been brought up in a long time. Wondering if it will factor in later on or if they'll just leave it as is. If so, that seems like a fairly elaborate thing to not play a part.

5/14/2009 3:50:58 PM

how would you know it to be female, all they showed was an eye.

furthermore, i'm fairly certain that juliet's eyes are blue.

5/14/2009 3:51:19 PM

Quote :

"you're really just making up stuff here. "

what else is there to do until next season, seriously? it's the logical guess that the previews and watching this show would have you believe.

^Are you saying you can't tell a difference between a male and female eye? I'm not saying it was definitely female, as I don't have a screencap in front of me, though from memory, i remember thinking it looked female.

Just rewatched it on youtube. Yeah, it's looks like Jack's (male) eye, though much greener than the previous pic posted.



[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM. Reason : 8]

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 4:00 PM. Reason : 45]

5/14/2009 3:52:41 PM

Quote :

"When Desmond was moving around, it was really his mind/conscience that was going back and forth between the times."

Wasn't Desmond's traveling induced by the blast from the hatch and the exposure to the electromagnetism?

Quote :

"it's the logical guess that the previews and watching this show would have you believe."

Not really, it's just an eye. It could be Juliet waking up in the Swan hole in 1977, or in her house in 2005, or in Miami in 2000, or it could be Aaron or Kate or Jack or anyone at any time. It's just an eye.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:58 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 3:57:02 PM

^ Yes. But not the rats. Daniel was causing that somehow. Although, there was a slight difference. Desmond was reliving a time period he already lived (there wasn't another him running around). Where as the oceanics are back in a time that younger versions of themselves exist. That being said, Desmond did things differently the second time around I think. For example, going to see Farraday and telling him the coordinates.

Plus, I think it's kinda lame to have 2 different mechanics/ways for people to essentially travel in time in the same show. Especially, if that's not addressed some how.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 4:03 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 3:59:14 PM

So what, are you saying you don't think they're going back to the present from the H-Bomb explosion? (not the eye ) It's either that, or they're all dead. (Or it didn't explode, which I highly doubt)

I think they'll wake up in the present, and begin the "war".

Also, when Jacob said "They're coming", he could very well be talking about 816ers.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 4:04 PM. Reason : 22]

5/14/2009 4:04:06 PM

Quote :

"I think they'll wake up in the present, and begin the "war"."

But if the bomb went off and destroyed the Swan, they'd never be on the island in the first place, right?

5/14/2009 4:08:03 PM

^^^ you're totally off on this. the machine sent the rat's consciousness to the future (JUST LIKE DESMOND). the people lost in time were never exposed (directly) to electromagnetism like desmond (AND THE RAT) were.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 4:10 PM. Reason : ^]

5/14/2009 4:09:40 PM

^^ If you're talking to me, i'm not referring to that at all really. Just the fact that the way he traveled in time seems different and hasn't been addressed. But may come up later in the series. It could in fact prove to be a way to actually change things, since he was actually reliving life. And things were different. Wasn't there a soccer match that he'd seen before but the outcome was different and he kinda looked foolish in front of people?

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to say something like "the electromagnetic field contained the blast."

The obvious "they" of jacob's comment would be Richard, Bram, etc. as they were right outside at that time and seemed to be ready to storm in and stop seemingly fake locke. But maybe they wanted it to seem that way.

^ That's pretty much what i said. So i'm not sure how i'm off. But I don't think desmond went to the future, well he may have. But he went to the past as well. Farraday definitely told him the coordinate and told him that when he travels back again to go find him and give them to him because he hadn't solved it yet at that point.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 4:11 PM. Reason : ^]

5/14/2009 4:10:04 PM

^^ Except that Desmond's consciousness went to the past, not the future.

Quote :

"Wasn't there a soccer match that he'd seen before but the outcome was different and he kinda looked foolish in front of people?"

No, he was just using the result of the match as a way to prove to a friend that he was actually traveling through time. He was wrong about the match, though. The match he thought he was watching was actually the next night.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 4:14 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 4:11:59 PM

daniel already said that desmond was special. all the castaways were unstuck in time. their time-traveling was completely random, and was wholly separate from the way desmond experiences time. desmond is the unique one, he is potentially the key to fixing everything.

5/14/2009 4:12:27 PM

did you read the first post in which i brought this up (a few posts under the eye picture)? It specifically stated that the ways they travel in time is different and that I would be kind of surprised if that didn't factor in again at some point.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 4:14 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 4:13:32 PM

Quote :

"The obvious "they" of jacob's comment would be Richard, Bram, etc. as they were right outside at that time and seemed to be ready to storm in and stop seemingly fake locke. But maybe they wanted it to seem that way."

That's exactly why I don't want it to be that. Too obvious for my liking.

Quote :

"But if the bomb went off and destroyed the Swan, they'd never be on the island in the first place, right? "

That's some wacky theory that Daniel told them in the short time before he died. I like Miles' theory that they've always blown the h-bomb.

5/14/2009 4:15:53 PM

So it's settled: they're still in 1977, the bomb didn't do shit, and Desmond is coming back to save them all.

I'd really prefer that to this resetting time crap.

Quote :

"I like Miles' theory that they've always blown the h-bomb"

Me too, because that would be in line with everything they've been telling us all season. Plus I don't see how the bomb could send them back to 2007 on the island. And if they didn't time travel at all, it would kill just about everything on the island.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 4:17 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 4:16:01 PM

To whoever is saying it is Juliet's eye... she has blue eyes, not green eyes.

5/14/2009 4:19:41 PM

Well technically the bomb wouldn't send them back to 2007 I guess. But it could be the trigger that allows the "electromagnetic pocket" to explode, thus sending them back to the present. Who the hell knows? I guess they probably skip 2007 and get to 2010?

^I was asking, not saying. And it appears to be Jack's (though greener than the pic above).

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 4:21 PM. Reason : 22]

5/14/2009 4:20:34 PM

wtf is an electromagnetic pocket anyway?

5/14/2009 4:21:44 PM

You've never heard of an EMP?

5/14/2009 4:23:54 PM

yeah, either the bomb doesn't quite go off. Or it was somehow not affective because of the electromagnetic field. Otherwise, there would have been a huge crater where the swan was. That, or they really did change things. The wasn't any crater, and I'm not gonna like if they changed anything by setting off the bomb.

But, the exposure to the electromagnetic field (them not pressing the button in time and him turning the key) is what first sent Desmond back in time the first time. I don't recall what caused him to start jumping back and forth again when Daniel was around. I'm pretty sure that wasn't happening the entire time. They are about as close to that energy as possible right now. Maybe the bomb does enough damage to release it and they are sent around in time just as Desmond was?

5/14/2009 4:24:15 PM

Quote :

"I like Miles' theory that they've always blown the h-bomb."

agreed. i was thinking this very thing before he stated it and related to his frustration as he got blank stares from the team as he went over it.

I'm fairly certain that this concept is accurate since the events of the fight directly led to candle/chang's hand getting smashed, which we know does take place.

damn i <3 juliet.

5/14/2009 4:24:40 PM

^ I think Chang's arm got smashed because of the electromagnetism sucking everything into the hole, not because of the fight.

Quote :

"Maybe the bomb does enough damage to release it and they are sent around in time just as Desmond was?"

I like that idea a lot and I feel stupid for not already thinking of it.

That seems like the best way to fix everything.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 4:26 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 4:25:27 PM

Obviously they'll be sent through time, we just don't know when.

5/14/2009 4:29:41 PM

GOD LOVED YOU AS HE LOVED JACOB

anyone remember that?


Lostpedia makes me sick. Every bible belt retard just goes on there and spouts off their christian connections because they've never heard of hindu or islam or any other religion / belief system. If everything was supposed to be a reference to christianity then there would be a cross not an egyptian statue. Broaden your mind folks.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 4:40 PM. Reason : fffffffffffff oh yeah]

5/14/2009 4:35:02 PM

You know the Jacob of the bible went to live in Egypt in his old age, right?

5/14/2009 4:43:45 PM

Quote :

"Otherwise, there would have been a huge crater where the swan was."

I'm guessing, as what Faraday said, the pocket of energy and the bomb would neutralize each other. So I'm guessing that = time travel with little to no damage.

5/14/2009 4:50:24 PM

A question no one has been asking:


What do ellie/charles intentions have to do with Jacob/John 2.0

Are we to assume that they had no clue about John 2.0, or that they were working with him to get john's "proxy" on the flight so that John 2.0 would allow them back on the island?

5/14/2009 4:55:23 PM

^^

Quote :

"Although, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to say something like "the electromagnetic field contained the blast.""

That's what i figured. I forgot that Daniel specifically said that though.

^ ehh, i brought it up a few pages back. Well not exactly. I think i mentioned something about why they went through all the trouble they have. They either were doing stuff because they think "it's their destiny" and are finally at a point that they don't know what will happen (as eloise said). Or they know more than they've let on and are trying to accomplish something themselves. In which case, maybe they do know about jacob and this other entity. But I wouldn't be surprised if Whidmore had never seen Jacob either and knows nothing of Locke 2.0

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 5:01 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 4:56:45 PM

Did anybody else notice that in all of the Jacob related flashbacks, he physically touched all of the flash folks? Maybe it's no biggie, but i noticed they showed him touching young kate's nose, touching young sawyer's hand when he gave him the pen, touching Locke after the fall (obviously), touching jack when he gave him the candy bar, touching Sayid's shoulder after the accident, touching Hurley's shoulder in the cab.

5/14/2009 5:07:34 PM

Quote :

"they were working with him to get john's "proxy" on the flight so that John 2.0 would allow them back on the island? "

sounds pretty good, hadn't thought of that.

^yeah, hard to miss. I'm guessing that's how he "brings people to the island".

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 5:08 PM. Reason : 1]

5/14/2009 5:07:57 PM

in the temple there's an ancient hieroglyph that shoes the smoke monster fighting anubis (the big egyptian statute thing that's only one foot now). just saw that today and thought it might be relevant now, although i'm not sure how.

5/14/2009 5:09:42 PM

I don't think we will be able to draw any conclusions about any of the hieroglyphs or any of that shit until we actually see the temple or learn about what it is. Ben described it as the last safe place on earth, but that was waaaay before any of the jacob / john 2.0 shit came into play.



[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 5:13 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 5:12:07 PM

Quote :

"Well technically the bomb wouldn't send them back to 2007 I guess. But it could be the trigger that allows the "electromagnetic pocket" to explode, thus sending them back to the present. Who the hell knows? I guess they probably skip 2007 and get to 2010?"

the original point of setting off the bomb wasn't to "send them back" to the present. The point was to change the past, at which point, they would cease to exist in the past. They wouldn't necessarily "go to the future", because that would imply they had been in the past. If the bomb had had the intended effect, then the plane would have landed in LA in 2004, and everybody would have gone on their separate ways. They wouldn't "jump forward" to 2004, or 2007 or 2010. They would exist in all of those time periods, and if the story-tellers wanted to jump to the future to pick up their stories at some point, they could choose any of those times.


--


I've been trying to think back to some of the Locke scenes through S5 now, viewing them with the knowledge of Locke = Other Man.

Knowing that makes a lot more of the scene where Fake-Locke led Richard and Ben to the plane, where Richard saved Real-Locke. When Ben said "your timing is impeccable. how did you know you would be here?" and "Locke" said "The island told me", it sounded like a real cop-out then, but I guess it makes sense now, since Fake-Locke actually was really in touch with all the goings-on of the island.

5/14/2009 6:06:46 PM

jacob is anubis

man #2 is smoke monster

they have been battling forever

5/14/2009 6:20:49 PM

Locke is only the other man after the ajira flight crashes on the island... not when he's trying to recruit everyone to come back to the island.

5/14/2009 6:50:11 PM

Quote :

"n the temple there's an ancient hieroglyph that shoes the smoke monster fighting anubis (the big egyptian statute thing that's only one foot now)"

Although the statue had a male body, its head appeared to be Taweret, the goddess of protection of pregnancy and childbirth. Its destruction might have something to do with the problem of bearing children on the island.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taweret

5/14/2009 6:50:35 PM

i really like this theory about the white screen at the end, posted on lostpedia:

Quote :

"# The show up until this point has been about Esau's manipulation of events for the purpose of killing Jacob (black background), the remainder of the series will focus on the struggle of the good side (Jacob's side) to prevail (white background). "

5/14/2009 7:12:16 PM

In the opening scene, I think Jacob was wearing a white shirt and Man #2 was wearing a black one. That's another nod to the white/black good/evil theme they've had since the very beginning. It might also be a good indicator as to which one of the two is the good guy.

5/14/2009 8:05:08 PM

Was that a portrait of vincent in the cabin?

5/14/2009 8:10:59 PM

Definitely



Also, via Lostpedia, there was some confusion about this:

Quote :

"Richard Alpert responded to the question of "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" with "Ille qui nos omnes servabit" - The translation is actually "Whoever will help us, will help everyone." Often online translators distort the true meaning of the sentence. One must understand the basics of Latin to translate the sentence properly. "

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 8:30 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 8:28:07 PM

its some random producer's dog or something

5/14/2009 8:30:03 PM

^^that's not a very good response to the question though...

5/14/2009 8:37:51 PM

^7 interesting, the teeth/head in the top picture are pretty much the same as what was on the show (which threw me off a little when they showed them). like you said, the body is definitely not the same though.

^6 I like that as well, but while the reasoning/logic seems fine.. i'm not sure the statements are accurate.

If it really was Jacob that went and met everyone (and not the other guy impersonating him), it seems that Jacob has manipulated everyone/things to happen a certain way up until this or maybe a future point... no? I mean he told a few people it was "your choice", but yet he for some reason interacted with all of them (a lot of main characters).

I have to imagine he made contact with all of those people to cause something. Perhaps them saving him some how? Or even them realizing they have a choice and in turn decide to do something differently than they otherwise would have, or perhaps different than they once did (from the time traveling perspective). Or maybe to just lead them down a different path for their own good.

Esau (I'm assuming they're using that name for the other guy from the beginning), has definitely manipulated people as Locke 2.0 (if that's what we're calling him). But that has only been recently. He may have been Alex, Christian, or various other dead or not dead people who have appeared out of nowhere though.

I'm not saying he hasn't manipulated some things. But we know, or at least have been led to believe, that Jacob has influenced a lot of characters. He is also the one that supposedly made "all those lists" that Ben was following the entire time.

Considering that, I don't see how anyone can claim that

Quote :

"The show up until this point has been about Esau's manipulation of events for the purpose of killing Jacob."

At best, it's been the result of both Jacob and "black-shirt guy's" manipulations somewhat equally. But it seems to have mostly been the result of what Jacob has done.

On the other hand, assuming they stick with it, the transition from the black background to the white background came after Jacob was seemingly killed.


^^^ so the answer to the question didn't actually answer the question? Considering how similar that is to "he who will save us all"... i'll stick with the latter since it's actually a logical response. Then again, it is just a secret code.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 8:44 PM. Reason : shit, had to add some ^s]

5/14/2009 8:41:50 PM