i would like to buy a gun.

3/4/2009 12:47:14 PM

cant wait to get my collection going

3/4/2009 3:35:07 PM

I had a good conversation with my father today about guns


he has a bunch of old shotguns and rifles he is thinking about giving me (as well as his safe)- some of the rifles are some weird styles i hadn't seen before, like the 8-mag (I believe it is a 338 magnum) that he says uses 300+ grain and cost him (back in the 1980's) 30 bucks for 20 in ammo... said it would drop almost anything, but it is more of a collectors item now


also has some over/unders and side by sides.... pretty neat stuff


he was also very interested in my pistol and what it takes to get one these days (back when he was buying guns, you just went in and bought them)- told him the difference b/w a pistol permit and a CCP and what you had to do. He is very interested in doing it (which means I might be able to talk him into going to the range and getting some pistols, = more things for me to try out )

3/4/2009 5:09:57 PM

i used to think id never get a glock, but im actually gonna look at the glock 29 and 30s. they have some good 10 mm and 45 in sub-compact but id rather have just a compact with extended mags for my hand and if its a 10 mm id be happy but i think a 357 sig or 45 would be better for control

3/4/2009 6:26:47 PM

well, hello, daniel.

Glocks are good pistols - I just wasn't comfortable with the grip angle

3/4/2009 6:39:33 PM

Interesting shooter game from the University of Chicago: http://backhand.uchicago.edu/Center/ShooterEffect/

It is actually supposed to test racial bias, but it is a fairly interesting measure of your reaction to a shoot / no-shoot situation.



Oh and . . .

Quote :

"Yup, the 2nd Amendment isn't actually applicable to the States, yet."

what?

3/4/2009 9:49:47 PM

^Do you really want a long explanation? Here's the shortened version:
The 2nd amendment is a part of the Bill of Rights.
The Bill of Rights applies to the FEDERAL government, not State governments.
The 14th amendment allowed some of those laws to become applicable to State governments. (Through the incorporation doctrine).
The 2nd amendment is not one of them yet. (It hasn't been "incorporated").
So, until there's a US Supreme Court case ruling that the 2nd amendment is applicable through the 14th amendment, then it's not binding on the states. A lot of states have similar laws in their constitutions, but they technically don't have to follow THE 2nd amendment.

[Edited on March 4, 2009 at 10:01 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2009 9:59:07 PM

so by saying the federal bill of rights are not part of the state bill of rights, i.e. the 2nd amendment does not imply that you have that right in your own state.....

how the fuck do you get it then.

that means if the federal government says you have to be 18 to enlist in the military
a state can say no, you have to be 21.........no

all state legislation has to follow federal legislation (in a sense).
if there is a federal legislation, it applies everywhere
if its state, it only applies in your state.

only place this is ok is when the law or legislation actually is stricter when it is considered by the state. so like instead of porn being ok for 18, some states say u have to be 21.



WTF, get back to discussing guns, not the laws.

[Edited on March 4, 2009 at 10:16 PM. Reason : ah]

3/4/2009 10:15:07 PM

^^ I guess I completely misunderstood when I was told that the Constitution of the United States was the supreme law of the land. I didn't realize it only applied to the District of Columbia, US Territories, and Federally administered property.

Does that go for the other nine?



Whether or not it is enforced is a different issue, but the SCOTUS has yet to rule on a case where and amendment referring to the "people" didn't apply to all American citizens. They've also stated that restrictions can be placed on the exercise of rights, but I've never heard it once implied that a state may pass a law that violates the Supreme Court's interpretation of the United States Constitution.

Unless I am completely misunderstanding you.


I'll be fucking damned, she's right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_(Bill_of_Rights)

Quote :

"Incorporation (of the Bill of Rights) is the American legal doctrine by which portions of the Bill of Rights are applied to the states through the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, although some have suggested that the Privileges or Immunities Clause would be a more appropriate textual basis. Prior to the ratification of the 14th Amendment and the development of the incorporation doctrine, in 1833 the Supreme Court held in Barron v. Baltimore that the Bill of Rights applied only to the Federal, but not any State, government. Even years after the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment the Supreme Court in United States v. Cruikshank, still held that the First and Second Amendment did not apply to state governments. However, beginning in the 1890s,[citation needed] a series of United States Supreme Court decisions interpreted the Fourteenth Amendment to "incorporate" most portions of the Bill of Rights, making these portions, for the first time, enforceable against the state governments."

[Edited on March 4, 2009 at 10:22 PM. Reason : still seems fucked up]

[Edited on March 4, 2009 at 10:22 PM. Reason : I type corrected]

[Edited on March 4, 2009 at 10:25 PM. Reason : s]

3/4/2009 10:18:06 PM

I'm not saying that it doesn't apply to all people. I'm saying that it applies as it's directed from the Federal government. So, the Federal government can't infringe on the gun rights of people. But, because it hasn't been incorporated by the 14th amendment, the State government technically still can. I would predict this issue is litigated by the Supreme Court within the next two or three years, and at that point, I would predict that it is incorporated and it will be applicable. It's just not been ruled on yet.

^^I don't want to get into the law, but someone else brought it up. If you guys want references, I'd be happy to send them your way. But anyone who's taken a Constitutional Law class, or been through law school will tell you the same thing.

^And no, that doesn't apply to all portions of the Bill of rights.
(I was going to post the same link you posted.)

Quote :

" The Second Amendment has not been held to be incorporated against the states. See Miller v. Texas, 153 U.S. 535 (1894); Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886); United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875). However, these cases predate the Supreme Court's modern incorporation criteria, so it is an open question whether the Second Amendment will be incorporated.[13] The court has ruled that the second amendment codifies a pre-existing individual right to possess and carry firearms, which is not in any manner dependent on the Constitution for its existence,[14] and some commentators suggest that incorporation is likely,[15] or that incorporation can hardly be escaped if the inferior courts take the Supreme Court's incorporation jurisprudence seriously as law—as they are required to do.[16] Regarding the Second Amendment and the incorporation doctrine, the Supreme Court in District of Columbia v. Heller said: With respect to Cruikshank's continuing validity on incorporation, a question not presented by this case, we note that Cruikshank also said that the first amendment did not apply against the states and did not engage in the sort of Fourteenth Amendment inquiry required by our later cases. Our later decisions in Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252, 265 (1886) and Miller v. Texas, 153 U.S. 535, 538 (1894), reaffirmed that the Second Amendment applies only to the Federal Government.[17] Since Heller, federal cases have been filed requesting the Second Amendment be made applicable to the states via the Fourteenth Amendment. Two such cases are McDonald v. Chicago and Guy Montag Doe v. San Francisco Housing Authority. The issue is also currently pending in the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in the case of Nordyke v. King.[18]"

^And I'm not a "he"

[Edited on March 4, 2009 at 10:24 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2009 10:21:58 PM

I agreeing with you.

[Edited on March 4, 2009 at 10:25 PM. Reason : ma'am]

3/4/2009 10:25:10 PM

And I agree, it is pretty messed up. That's why I'm banking on them fixing it pretty darned soon.

3/4/2009 10:26:28 PM

Quote :

"Game Over Your Score: 595 Average reaction time: Black Armed:681ms Black Unarmed:758.4ms White Armed:668.2ms White Unarmed:768.2ms"

So, what have I learned.
1. If I know in advance I'm being tested to see if I'm a racist cracker, it takes me an extra 13 ms to shoot a black person with a gun.
2. Its easier to determine an object is a gun (and shoot the motherfucker) than it is to determine it isn't a gun and place it back in the holster.
3. Apparently it takes an extra 10ms to determine if a object isn't a gun if the person is white.
4. Why in the game do I reholster the weapon? Wouldn't it make more sense to just leave the weapon in the holster. (I know, it is a game)

3/4/2009 11:53:03 PM

lolz. not a good game to play way after bedtime

Your Score: 350
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:560.32ms
Black Unarmed:640.64ms
White Armed:557.6ms
White Unarmed:592ms

3/5/2009 12:08:25 AM

Moving to DENVER, CO! Traveling through TN, KY, ILLINOIS, MO, KS, then to CO.

I KNOW ILLINOIS is a beast with handgun laws. I have been on the site handgunlaws.us and checked there, and it seems as long as the gun is unloaded in case not easily accessible (behind passenger seat ok?) i'm ok. other states seem fine.

just want to double check so i don't have to deal with breaking any laws!


i do NOT have my CCW and will not have one until i get to CO and obtain one there. I only own a handgun (purchased new in NC legally) and a 12 gauge shotgun (standard length, given to me by father, assume no paperwork on that is needed).

3/8/2009 1:35:12 PM

how is colorado with GCLs? The way some people think out there makes me think the lack of oxygen has affected their thinking

3/8/2009 1:37:16 PM

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

3/8/2009 1:39:52 PM

3^ Like you were thinking, make sure the gun is unloaded, ammo in a separate container, and the gun locked in a case.

3/8/2009 1:49:30 PM

it said ammo is fine in the same case for IL...

but i may as well separate it all

[Edited on March 8, 2009 at 3:53 PM. Reason : ]

3/8/2009 3:53:26 PM

http://www.armorammo.com/

Anyone know anything about them? They are "local" (located in Erwin).

3/9/2009 9:19:30 PM

^competitive prices my ass.

3/9/2009 9:36:22 PM

when is the next open carry dinner or SCCC dinner?

3/9/2009 9:49:29 PM

Quote :

"^competitive prices my ass."

Where could one find better prices that are actually in stock?

3/9/2009 9:57:53 PM

^^SCCC is tomorrow (3/10)
not sure about OC

3/9/2009 10:47:38 PM

You can get new Speer .40 at ammoman.com for $300 shipped for 1k rounds.
You can get new decent 9mm at ammotogo.com for $225 shipped for 1k rounds.






OC Dinner

Bob Evans
2001 WALNUT STREET
CARY, NC 27511
(919) 233-6860

March 14th at 7:00pm




SCCC meeting
March 10th at 7:30 at I Love NY Pizza, upstairs.

[Edited on March 9, 2009 at 11:02 PM. Reason : .]

3/9/2009 10:53:00 PM

this bs has gotta stop.

$600 for 1000 .40 s&w 165gr gold dots? wtf.

the cheapest 9mm on ammunitiontogo.com is $260.

3/10/2009 12:01:16 AM

did you check ammoman.com

3/10/2009 12:12:10 AM

dang. bad weekend for the OC dinner. at least for me

3/10/2009 12:24:11 AM

^^

the $600 is from ammoman.

3/10/2009 2:53:06 AM

^That is for hollow points. The TMJ is $300

3/10/2009 9:47:04 AM

The prices have gotta go down. I need cheaper ammo now. It's eating into my budget.

When gas and metals are WAYYY down yet things derived from them are still crazy.

3/10/2009 12:51:15 PM

Well, everyone seems to think they need more ammo right now.

I bought it cheap and stacked it deep several years ago, but I still have that "just one more case" mentality with a couple of my favorite cartridges.

Basically, the only thing driving current ammo prices is record levels of demand that have continued unabated ever since last fall. This is the first time I can remember seeing Wal-Mart shelves picked clean of ammo for weeks and months on end.

[Edited on March 10, 2009 at 2:50 PM. Reason : l]

3/10/2009 2:50:05 PM

Reloading, and especially casting your own is where it's at. I still can't believe what some folks are willing to pay for ammo, when even half of what they'd spent in the last year could have paid for a nice handloading setup.

9mm and .45ACP - .10 and .12/round, that's buying commercial lead bullets, where most of the cost is.

7.62x39 - .10/round. Yes, ten cents. I use hand-cast bullets, and those are nearly free. Just my time, a dab of Alox, and the gas checks. Scrounging for .30 a pop Wolf is laughable now.

7.62x54R and .303 Brit - .23/round with commercial bullets, .16 if I use cast. You won't feed those with quality ammo for anywhere near that.

.223 - .17/round, commercial fmjbt's and/or SS109 pulls.

It doesn't seem truly awesome until you really look at the numbers - to put it in perspective, I can make a box of 9mm for 5.75 in components. That same 50 rounds is almost $10 for even the crappiest stuff. I shoot my PSL and Mosins for less than a third of what comparable factory ammo would cost.

If you shoot regularly, (and I know you all do) then reloading WILL pay for itself. You will shoot more and spend less, guaranteed. Instead of scouring Wal-marts for that last elusive box of WWB or Blazer, you just head to the bench, set your stuff up, and churn out a couple hundred rounds in half an hour or so. It's so simple, anyone can do it. Going hunting? Load up a few precision rounds with SP's or HP's. Still waaaay cheaper than buying factory ammo.

I'm more than willing to help set up equipment or mentor someone into reloading. The more folks I see shooting, and the less scouring for ammo, the better.

3/10/2009 5:02:52 PM

I have my turret press for my 308 stuff, and access to the family 450 and 550 B Dillon setups. However, my time is worth money to me. I can do FMJ 9mm reloads for 13-14 cent a round. That saves me me ~$50 per thousand over the cost of blazer brass. That also means 2 hours of time on the press, plus case cleaning, sizing, trimming. If I had more free time, I would reload 9mm.

3/10/2009 5:32:38 PM

Looks like someone went on a shooting spree here in southern Alabama today. I'm hearing 8 dead right now.

3/10/2009 5:48:01 PM

Quote :

"It doesn't seem truly awesome until you really look at the numbers - to put it in perspective, I can make a box of 9mm for 5.75 in components. That same 50 rounds is almost $10 for even the crappiest stuff. I shoot my PSL and Mosins for less than a third of what comparable factory ammo would cost."

If you're gonna shoot high dollar ammo then you save an even larger amount.

For instance, a 20 round box of Federal Gold Metal 308Win matchkings is $37.

If I handload then it's (per hundred):
$30 for the Matchking bullets
$4 for match primers
$14 worth of powder

$48 total for 100 rounds, or less than $10 a box. That's assuming the brass is free. New brass loaded a minimum of 5 times would still only add $1-2 per box.

3/10/2009 9:54:08 PM

what weightmatchkings for your load? my .30-06 loves the 165 gameking BTHP, or the 168 Matchking.

3/10/2009 10:32:57 PM

168gr SMK

I loaded a starting load and it shot 0.7MOA out of my Tikka T3.
I never bothered fine tuning the load after that

3/10/2009 11:06:26 PM

the 165, loaded light, prints in .5 MOA groups on a good day from my cheap ass savage .30-'06. Its sset up as a 200 yard or under deer gun, so good enough for me. My HB 308 gun I started is still sitting needing a bent bolt handle, bases/rings/scope, and a final ream for head space. Its a 8mm Mauser I stripped for parts, with a 1 inch - 1 3/8 taper heavy barrel. Synth stock, new bolt tail cap to remove bolt safety lever, new trigger setup with safety located there. Its a 12 oz trigger ATM.

3/12/2009 12:41:15 AM

I reload mostly pistol ammo and some American rifle calibers.

However, I've never bothered with reloading Combloc stuff yet. I bought most of my 54R, 5.45 and 7.62x39 back when it was 6 to 11 cents a round, and have hardly put a sizeable dent in the stash.
Another one that's still extremely reasonable these days is 7.62x25 Tok.
54R surplus is suddenly $150 per case now, which still isn't that bad.

I sometimes wonder how long these sky-high ammo and component prices will sustain themselves...

3/12/2009 2:23:26 PM

I do love reloading for 54R because all the (relatively) affordable surplus is nasty and corrosive. I can make better ammo for less money, and I don't have to sweat cleaning. Even if surplus is ever cheaper than making it, the ease of cleaning up after it is worth it.

3/12/2009 5:24:09 PM

What do I need to reload .45? How much of this stuff would carry over to other calibers?

3/12/2009 7:52:58 PM

Here are the basics for reloading handgun ammo:
-Press
-Dies (resizing/decapping die, expander die, bullet seating die, crimping die)
-Powder measure (balance, scale, or dippers)
-Gun powder
-Brass
-Primers
-Bullets

For loading bottle necked rifle cartridges you need case lube, but you do not necesarily need an expander die or crimping die depending on the cartridge and the gun.

Some nice to haves:
-Some way to clean the brass such as a vibratory or rotary tumbler that uses crushed walnut or corn cobb media
-A tray that holds the cases while you load


I suggest buying a kit with everything you need to start. Lee makes fairly good stuff at very cheap prices.

3/12/2009 9:42:53 PM

i've shelved the 700 until i can get a reloading set up going

current pricing is at $67 for a box of 20

yes, that means that $3.35 every time i pull (if i shot the damn thing) the trigger

definitely going to be putting together a reload station....ive saved all my brass from the first shot fired, so im good to go on that



oh! in more exciting news, my G19 finally arrived! im stoked, it fits my hand perfect

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:23 AM. Reason : first glock ftw!]

3/13/2009 12:23:04 AM

I miracle of (not so) modern times, the Classic Lee Loader.

If you think you want to try reloading, this is a cheap way to start. If you know you want to reload, get a press, it's much faster. I have a Lee setup, and everything works great.

3/13/2009 1:51:25 AM

I'd recommend the Lee Classic Turret Kit - it comes with a press and everything you need to get started doing rifle or pistol loading, minus components and dies, and it's a little easier and faster than a standard single stage.

3/13/2009 10:23:04 AM

i'm looking to buy a shotgun. looking for something primarily for home defense but versatile enough for hunting if i were ever inclined.

i don't really know much about guns so i figured i'd ask here before i start doing some serious research

3/13/2009 11:38:45 AM

I have a mossberg 500 pistol grip which I added a folding stock too as well as a light (there are pictures somewhere in this thread), and I like it

serves the exact purposes you listed, and it wasn't too expensive


lemme see if I can find the pics

Here you go:









the stock does a great job of reducing kick (alot better than I expected), and the light has a second rear end for it that can allow me to have full time on/off options

if the pictures don't load for ya, you should be able to cut and paste the links to the pics

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 6:35 PM. Reason : h]

3/13/2009 6:30:02 PM

I'm really torn between a Glock 27 and a Kahr PM40. The glock is much cheaper and will take m full mags. Buts its a brick no doubt. The other dark horse candidate is a Sig P232 but I'm not sold on a .380 yet.

3/13/2009 6:34:54 PM

if i were to get a glock, i'd get the glock 21 (I shot it and I liked it alot more than I thought I would)

I really like sig, but it looks like you are set on 40 or bigger



I couldn't tell you jack shit about kahr

3/13/2009 6:37:59 PM