^ self defense

4/8/2012 12:03:13 PM

God dammit. What is this stupid bullshit? Of course this was a racially motivated killing, and honestly, I believe the Jew Mexican thinks he felt threatened. It's no different than seeing a black person at night in a hoody. Any non-black person is going to feel threatened and on-edge. Don't try to fucking deny it. It's in our DNA to use stereotypes to protect our ass. Black people do it too against other black people. We just don't label it a hate crime but rather black-on-black violence. Where Mr. Zimmerman fucked up at was calling the police. If he was going to proceed chasing the guy down, he should have kept his fucking mouth shut. But now, everyone knows he had the opportunity to get away after the police tried telling him to not do it. For this reason, and this reason alone, he should be arrested and sent to prison. It's not that I think he's racist. It's that he's a fucking moron.

And to the black community getting in an uproar. Shut the fuck up. Stop killing each other before you start saying America is racist. Protest the law as being fucking stupid instead of blaming the media for some bullshit. You ignorant asses only hurt the "cause" even more. This is like you ignorant asses protesting over OJ's murder case and calling it racist and then celebrating his release. We all know he did it and to this very day he flouts. That verdict didn't advance your cause at all, but rather hurt it. Now you're trying to poke and prod racism into this case against the police officers and the media and everything else, when that isn't the case. It's you people who perpetuate racism more in this country with your endless bitching and moaning and double standards.

What people fail to realize is that Zimmerman was trying to be a good Samaritin by looking after his neighborhood and protect it from crime. How many people would be in an uproar and shout racism if the kid he shot wasn't a kid, but an actual criminal with a gun on him? Instead of a prison sentence he would be getting a pat on the back and a story in the local newspaper that would go national 2 days later. The man's heart was in the right place, he just happened to have been wrong. He absolutely should go to jail, but a full term? No. I don't think so. I don't think that would be really justice, contrary to what the racist protesters thinks.

That's my take on all of this bullshit. Fuck you guys.

4/8/2012 12:30:13 PM

that was kind of poorly written, merbig

4/8/2012 12:35:16 PM

4/8/2012 12:36:57 PM

I mean the ideas were garbage to begin with
but you also communicated them poorly

so...

I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

4/8/2012 12:37:03 PM

Pancakes were being made. I had to make it quick. They were blueberry btw.

But hey, why try and make a valid argument when you can make comments that address nothing that I had actually said?

4/8/2012 12:45:51 PM

Quote :

"that was kind of poorly written, merbig"

And full of fail.

People, black or otherwise, are justified in being outraged and protesting this, I'm not sure what black on black crime or OJ has to do with this situation AT ALL. Its okay to kill innocent black people because some other black person somewhere is doing it?

And because Zimmerman was grossly incompetent, at BEST, in executing his duties as neighborhood watch doesn't mean he can murder. I LOL at the idea of excusing, or going easy on, people for killing other people because they are dumb/incompetent.

4/8/2012 1:26:41 PM

Quote :

"How many people would be in an uproar and shout racism if the kid he shot wasn't a kid, but an actual criminal with a gun on him?"

It doesn't matter whether the person he followed was actually a criminal or not. What matters is why he decided to follow the guy in the first place. And, at this point, it's pretty obvious to all but the most obstinate among us that Zimmerman followed Trayvon because Trayvon was black. At a bare minimum, that's being prejudiced.

4/8/2012 6:05:44 PM

but what are you going to do about that? you can't change those people, you have to look at the bigger issues.

4/8/2012 6:06:52 PM

I'm not going to do anything about it. This kind of stupidity will phase itself out eventually, as people realize just how dumb it is

4/8/2012 6:08:38 PM

it's been 42 pages of this bs, obviously you guys aren't going to agree on a few things.

4/8/2012 6:09:35 PM

Quote :

"People, black or otherwise, are justified in being outraged and protesting this, I'm not sure what black on black crime or OJ has to do with this situation AT ALL. Its okay to kill innocent black people because some other black person somewhere is doing it? "

The point he was trying to make is that black men, women, and children get killed all the time.

As do white and other races.

Some of the killers are never found, some walk free, and some are never even arrested.

Nobody is saying it's ok to kill anyone.

But if you are going to raise a fuss about so called injustices like this, then you need to be consistent with it. You can't only do it when it seems to support your cause.

Yet, we never hear about this and none of these same black people are ever out in the streets protesting and raising a big fuss about any of that.

The ONLY reason that the overwhelming majority of these black people are so "outraged" over this is because this case was originally portrayed by the media as a white man gunning down a black kid.

I didn't see any black people protesting and outraged at the entire Casey Anthony ordeal.

Or any time there is a white person being served an injustice.

Hell, it's painfully obvious that OJ fucking killed those two people. Yet black people celebrated when that killer walked free.

If you honestly think that this entire thing isn't as big as it is because of race, then I honestly feel sorry for you and the amount of denial/ignorance that you possess.

[Edited on April 8, 2012 at 6:15 PM. Reason : /]

4/8/2012 6:13:40 PM

Casey Anthony was arrested and spent plenty of time in jail dumbass

4/8/2012 6:21:06 PM

But she got away with murder.

Look dude, you are black, so you probably will never get it.

Black people kill black people and never get arrested.

But, like I said, thats not that big a deal to the black community.

Do not sit here and pretend that the only reason this case is as big as it is is because someone has been killed and the killer hasn't been arrested.

That shit happens ALL THE TIME.

Black people like to make a whole racial fuss over white/black things.

Which is evident in their inconsistencies in publicly voicing their outrage over only certain cases which fit their agenda.

4/8/2012 6:25:45 PM

OJ was chased down and arrested as well.

4/8/2012 6:26:02 PM

But a murderer went free.

With TONS of actually evidence to show he did it.

Yet the black community CELEBRATED when he was set free.

If OJ had been white and killed his black ex wife and gotten off like that, there would have been another round of Rodney King riots in LA.

4/8/2012 6:27:33 PM

He was arrested, went to trial, and was acquitted by a jury of his peers.

In contrast, Zimmerman hasn't even been arrested yet.

4/8/2012 6:33:04 PM

OJ was arrested and spent plenty of time in jail dumbass

4/8/2012 6:33:07 PM

You black people are missing the point.

4/8/2012 6:33:30 PM

but he was at least arrested

4/8/2012 6:33:38 PM

Quote :

" If OJ had been white and killed his black ex wife"

Well now you're just being ridiculous.

4/8/2012 6:33:40 PM

If a white famous athlete on the levels of OJ's fame back then had been acquitted of murdering his black ex wife with all that evidence and racial accusations that was present during that case, the black community would have been OUTRAGED and said the only reason he got off was because he was white and famous and how the black victim isn't being served justice.

Seriously, if you can't understand this, then that's your own problem.

4/8/2012 6:38:35 PM

ahahhaa, and wasn't Casey Anthony essentially arrested for something completely unrelated and HELD in jail WHILE investigators built a case against her, because they lacked the necessary evidence at the time of arrest?


Primo example there, chief.

4/8/2012 6:41:52 PM

We are using it as an example about how the black community basically had no interest in the case whether she was arrested or not. Because it was white on white crime.

You are missing the point.

How many rallies or vigils were held in honor of that baby by the black community?

Don't recall seeing any.

4/8/2012 6:43:56 PM

It sounds an awful lot like your poorly thought out and loosely related analogies backfired on you.


*shrug*

4/8/2012 6:54:58 PM

Not at all.

I think it's more like you now understand what we were trying to say.

And since you can't find any instances of the black community outraged over anything not involving other blacks, you are basically out of ammo.

It's ok though.

Everyone knows that the black community is only outraged when it's something dealing with other black people. Which is totally fine. The rest of society really doesn't care.

But don't come out and act like race isn't the issue and the reason you are making a fuss over something when its painfully obvious thats exactly why you are doing it.

4/8/2012 6:58:48 PM

I'm sorry, but no. The response from the black community never has and never will have any bearing on the fact that Zimmerman wasn't arrested after murdering an unarmed boy.
It's painfully obvious that people have to try to attack Trayvon's character, attack the response from the black community, and attack a host of other events in effort to sidestep the fact that Zimmerman racially profiled someone....stalked them....and killed them.

Hey, you should go imagine some other implausible circumstances that make Zimmerman's actions ok. I can't say that those stories were really entertaining...but they seemed to at least occupy your time.

4/8/2012 7:18:49 PM

Nobody is attacking his character.

The media, his family, and the black community originally made Trayvon out to be a totally little innocent angel who wouldn't hurt a fly in the world.

And release old pics of him showing this calm looking child who just loved life and was full of cheer.


So when Zimmerman claims that Trayvon was acting suspicious and looked like he might be on drugs or up to something, the black community was in outrage because he was just a black little angel and the only reason Zimmerman could think he was up to no good was because he was black.


Well turns out that little angel has grown up, has actually been suspended from school, assaulted people, and actually likes to do drugs. Which gives a little more credibility to Zimmerman's original claims.

It's not attacking his character any more than it is attacking Zimmermans character by releasing things about his past.



You can't sit back like the media and Trayvon's family were doing and releasing inaccurate information like old pictures and trying to portray someone as a model person and then get mad when some of their more recent pics showing them looking a little hardcore get released, or information about them dabbling in drugs or getting suspended form school.

They started it by using old photographs showing a 13yo child when in reality Trayvon was 6'2 grown man and withing a year of being a legal adult.

Nobody is attacking Trayvons character, they are just releasing information to give a more accurate picture of who the kid really was.

4/8/2012 7:28:51 PM

You're black.

So you're never gonna "get" it.

So I'm done attempting to explain it to you.

So feel free to carry on any way you wish.

4/8/2012 7:35:03 PM

Quote :

"People, black or otherwise, are justified in being outraged and protesting this, I'm not sure what black on black crime or OJ has to do with this situation AT ALL. Its okay to kill innocent black people because some other black person somewhere is doing it? "

Not at all. I'm saying they're woefully inconsistent. They focus their outrage on shit like this instead of on their own problems that directly affect their own community. They're happy when a black murderer goes free because they feel that he beat a system that's out to get them. These people protesting this case only perpetuate racism in the US.

Quote :

"And because Zimmerman was grossly incompetent, at BEST, in executing his duties as neighborhood watch doesn't mean he can murder. I LOL at the idea of excusing, or going easy on, people for killing other people because they are dumb/incompetent."

I never argued that he wasn't incompetent. Each time there is an accidental death of someone it is usually down to incompetence. Look at Dick Cheney.

However, that does not mean he "murdered" someone (a term only used when someone was murdered. FYI, kill /= murder, contrary to the belief of PETA, pro-life supporters and sensationalists such as yourself). I also never said he should get away with it.

But something you and the other retards in this thread can't grasp is that he may be allowed to kill him under Florida's "stand your ground" law. I don't like the law, but it is THE LAW. The police just can't arrest him if they have nothing to prove that he wasn't threatened or that he had no justifiable reason to feel threatened. How often are people shot and killed without being arrested? Remember the woman who had a man break into her house, she called 911 and asked if she could shoot the man. They didn't say she could, but rather told her to use her best judgment. She shot and killed one of the men. She wasn't arrested. There was a brief investigation, but no charges or anything.

So why should this be any different? Legally, there is no blatant proof that he broke the law. The only thing he is guilty of at this point is using poor judgment, and that is only made in hindsight. Other than that, it is up to the state to prove that he wasn't in imminent danger by he kid.

This is why I said the black community needs to be outraged against the law, because the law does open up the possibility for Zimmerman to "throw the first punch" so to speak without breaking the law.

Quote :

"It doesn't matter whether the person he followed was actually a criminal or not. What matters is why he decided to follow the guy in the first place. And, at this point, it's pretty obvious to all but the most obstinate among us that Zimmerman followed Trayvon because Trayvon was black. At a bare minimum, that's being prejudiced."

My point about if the man was actually a criminal and Zimmerman's suspicions were right was that we wouldn't even be having this conversation. As much as it pains you to admit it, you know I'm right.

You also can't prove that he followed him because he was black. He thought he was a criminal. It's clowns like you who want to make the assumption without any evidence that Zimmerman thought he was a criminal because he was black. If the man Zimmerman shot was white, would we even be having this discussion? Is it at all possible to think someone is a criminal without looking at race? What about how someone is dressed?

In fact, Zimmerman never even mentioned race until he was asked by the dispatcher, and even then, he sounds unsure.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-racist-phone-records-back-claim-article-1.1057407

Quote :

" Zimmerman: This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about." Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. "

So where is it obvious that this was fueled by race and not by how the kid may have been wearing, or how he was carrying himself or anything else?

Quote :

" In contrast, Zimmerman hasn't even been arrested yet"

Why should he be arrested? No different than not arresting someone who defended themselves in their house.

4/8/2012 7:36:05 PM

^THANK FUCKING GOD

Someone else gets it.

That basically summarizes up everything all of us non racial and rational people have been trying to say all along.

We should just end this thread on that.



If the races were reversed, the black community would be defending black Zimmerman for defending himself from white Trayvon and avoiding being the victim of a hate crime. They would also be all up in a fuss that the only reason people are calling for the arrest of black Zimmerman, even though he was just defending himself, is because he is black and we just assume because a black person kills someone that automatically makes them a criminal.

It is ALWAYS a racial issue with the black community.

If you are black, you may be blinded to this and not able to comprehend what we are saying. Which is no fault of your own. You were more than likely raised that way.

[Edited on April 8, 2012 at 7:45 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2012 7:40:52 PM

Quote :

"Nobody is attacking his character."

try again. people were.

Quote :

"I don't like the law, but it is THE LAW. The police just can't arrest him if they have nothing to prove that he wasn't threatened or that he had no justifiable reason to feel threatened."

you simply don't comprehend the concept of "affirmative defense." google that shit. read up on it. and then come back and explain how the law means that it's the POLICE that have to show he wasn't threatened. The fact is, HE has to show that HE WAS THREATENED. that's how it fucking works. The outrage here is that he doesn't even have to do that, because he wasn't even fucking arrested. The police had all the evidence they needed in order to bring charges: a dead guy and a guy to claims to have killed the dead guy. That's literally all they fucking need.

[Edited on April 8, 2012 at 7:50 PM. Reason : ]

4/8/2012 7:47:13 PM

There is a difference in attacking someones character, and showing what kind of character a person actually is.

"My son is an angel, he is always perfect and wouldn't harm anyone, just look at this nice innocent picture of him"

"Well ma'm, what about your son dressed gangster in this more recent pic, and whats up with him being suspended for school, vandalizing things, and talking about doing drugs on his FB and Twitter"

"WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING MY SONS CHARACTER!?!?!?1 "



It's not attacking someones character when someone makes them out to be something that they aren't and someone calls them out on it.

[Edited on April 8, 2012 at 7:53 PM. Reason : /]

4/8/2012 7:48:41 PM

maybe so, but NONE of that matters in the circumstances we currently have, because Zimmerman didn't know a damned bit of that shit when he saw a black kid walking down the street and automatically assumed the kid was a criminal. About the only thing that is really relevant is to show that Trayvon wasn't a 13-year old little kid. That's fine to point out, because it goes to show that it's not just a little kid being attacked by a grown man. But the rest of it IS character assassination, even if it's true. It's blaming the victim and acting like it is in any way relevant.

4/8/2012 7:53:10 PM

When someone says in a 911 call that someone is acting suspicious and looks like they are on drugs, and people call him a racist because that was an innocent little black angel, then it turns out that the kid was actually into drugs, and had gotten in trouble in the past for drugs, and vandalism, it doesn't make Zimmerman's claims look so far fetched and having nothing to do with race. It also makes it a lot more possible that guess what, PERHAPS Trayvon actually was acting suspicious and up to something.

Cops get called on "suspicious" people all the time.

Guess what, sometimes the way you look or act makes you suspicious and has nothing to do with the color of your skin.

4/8/2012 7:57:56 PM

Quote :

"If a white famous athlete on the levels of OJ's fame back then had been acquitted of murdering his black ex wife with all that evidence and racial accusations that was present during that case, the black community would have been OUTRAGED and said the only reason he got off was because he was white and famous and how the black victim isn't being served justice. Seriously, if you can't understand this, then that's your own problem."

white guys don't marry black chicks, duh.

4/8/2012 8:09:09 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot.

Because all white guys are racist.

4/8/2012 8:10:55 PM

Quote :

"you simply don't comprehend the concept of "affirmative defense." google that shit. read up on it. and then come back and explain how the law means that it's the POLICE that have to show he wasn't threatened. The fact is, HE has to show that HE WAS THREATENED. that's how it fucking works. The outrage here is that he doesn't even have to do that, because he wasn't even fucking arrested. The police had all the evidence they needed in order to bring charges: a dead guy and a guy to claims to have killed the dead guy. That's literally all they fucking need."

Quote :

"In its simplest form, a criminal defendant may be exonerated if he can demonstrate that he had an honest and reasonable belief that another's use of force was unlawful and that the defendant's conduct was necessary to protect himself."

You don't think he had an honest and reasonable belief that the guy was defending himself when all of the facts between the confrontation between he and the kid aren't present, and when there is a lot of doubt as to how the confrontation went down? Remember, he's affirming that his cries for help are his (which is plausible) and he says Trayvon was on top of him and hitting him (again, plausible given that Zimmerman's back was wet from the grass and he had marks on his face). He has more than enough circumstantial evidence to introduce reasonable doubt. At this point the only rock solid evidence we have is a phone recording, which nobody at this point knows whose voice is whose on the recording.

Not to mention an affirmative defense only applies to a court trial and not for an arrest. That's why many people who claim self-defense aren't arrested.

Keep in mind that the investigators need something to solidify their belief to the jury that Zimmerman was acting more as a vigilante and not as a concerned neighbor. Otherwise you're really requiring every case of self-defense to require a trial. Keep in mind that Zimmerman confronting Trayvon is not illegal. We know that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, but what happened after that, nobody can prove either way. The prosecution has to show that Zimmerman acted with that of a guilty mind (Mens rea), otherwise the most they could try him for is manslaughter.

Quote :

"maybe so, but NONE of that matters in the circumstances we currently have, because Zimmerman didn't know a damned bit of that shit when he saw a black kid walking down the street and automatically assumed the kid was a criminal"

You're making a lot of assumptions with that claim. Do you know what Zimmerman did when he approached Trayvon? Who was on top of who? Who threw the first punch? Who was screaming for help? Zimmerman also said he thought that Trayvon's hand was in his waistband as if he was holding a gun (he obviously was not, but in a self-defense case he can use this as a mistake of fact, which requires no proof from Zimmerman's side and can be used to escape responsibility). And how do you know that he chased him because he was black or that it was a coincidence that he was black?

Then you have eyewitnesses who all have inconsistent stories which will just show that each of them don't know shit and pretty much all of their accounts will be thrown out.

And just to be clear, I'm simply going based on the facts presented so far. Maybe there is a smoking gun. But if there is one, it's not one that you know of, and at this moment, people saying that his is racially motivated or that Zimmerman did all of this on purpose and all the other bullshit are just full of shit.

[Edited on April 8, 2012 at 9:16 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2012 9:14:11 PM

Quote :

"white guys don't marry black chicks, duh."

damnit I'm screwed

4/8/2012 9:15:06 PM

tacolu, you're unabashedly racist. your arguments have no merit in this thread anymore.

4/8/2012 9:21:14 PM

Quote :

"tacolu white person, you're unabashedly racist. your arguments have no merit in this thread anymore."

I don't believe tacolu is racist, I don't know if God really thinks so either but it's to God's advantage if he can convice people of this. But whatever.

So if a person wants the absolute truth and not just a knee-jerk reaction followed by a rushed decision to judgment they're racist. I've been wrong all these years, I thought racism was hating people of other races.

4/8/2012 9:41:46 PM

Anyone who believes that Black people are genetically inferior is a racist.

4/8/2012 9:43:22 PM

lol when did I ever say they are genetically inferior.

Quote :

"tacolu, you're unabashedly racist. your arguments have no merit in this thread anymore."

Typical response from someone who just lost their argument.

I actually have no problem at all with most black people.

But I hate ones that try and make a racial issue out of everything.

Guess what, you are black, sometimes shit isn't going to go your way, or your going to be wronged and it is just because sometimes life isn't fair and it happens to most people. It's not because you are black.

Also, I hate Niggers.

There is a difference, which I doubt most black people can understand.



[Edited on April 8, 2012 at 10:26 PM. Reason : ,]

4/8/2012 10:23:01 PM

When can this guy be indicted?

4/8/2012 10:25:30 PM

When there is enough evidence to do so.

Which up until this point there isn't and more than likely won't be.

Hence why he is still as free as we are.

4/8/2012 10:26:58 PM

^^^^where did that come from?

oh yeah, youre the biggest racist in this thread, and youre trying to keep your racist rant going for another dozen or so pages.

[Edited on April 8, 2012 at 10:27 PM. Reason : ^]

4/8/2012 10:26:59 PM

My god our species is a joke. I weep for humanity.

4/8/2012 10:28:13 PM

please just start ignoring God and slow this thread the fuck down,

4/8/2012 10:28:34 PM

I love how black people immediately call white people racist if they don't support, agree, or side with the black person in an issue.

Me: "I hate Obama"

Black friend: "WTF? You're racist"

Yep, you got me. I only hate him because he is black.

It has nothing to do with the fact that he is a fucking god awful president.

4/8/2012 10:34:13 PM

^^^^ He stated it earlier in the thread.

4/8/2012 10:35:30 PM