not voting for a democrat against trump is helping trump.

if you previously did not vote for the democrat (clinton) you helped trump then, too.

you said you wouldn't vote for a democrat (warren) if she was the candidate

that is helping trump

you have helped trump, and you've said you will help trump again

9/26/2019 3:18:58 PM

Before I click on the last page to see who you're replying to I'm guessing it's Duke.

[Edited on September 26, 2019 at 3:32 PM. Reason : Shit I was wrong ]

9/26/2019 3:31:27 PM

Solid guess tho

9/26/2019 8:12:17 PM

1. You don't understand how the election works. Voting for Trump is the only way to help Trump. Trump can't win without people voting for him.

2.This is a tactic used by people who know they don't have a candidate who can inspire people to vote FOR them so they have to use the opposition to try and motivate people to vote against. Negative motivation is always weaker than positive motivation in terms of getting people to show up and vote. That should have been a lesson of 2016.

3. Even if I voted for Trump (never would), it wouldn't help him in states like New York and California. The margin is too big. However, votes for green candidates help them build a party.

4. Even if I did somehow help Trump, I don't care anyway because a Clinton or Biden presidency is just as bad or worse once you consider how much people have become engaged in activism due to Trump.

9/26/2019 9:31:57 PM

bIdEn iS wOrSe tHaN tRuMp!

9/26/2019 10:20:40 PM

He also believes Warren is no different than Trump. It’s obvious.

I don’t understand how you can possibly claim to care about the environment and then turn around and say actually Trump is better than Clinton/Biden. It’s rank stupidity.

I tend to support pseudo-drastic measures like the Green New Deal but I also realize that if the alternative is a scaled down more centrist version or complete deregulation of entire energy industries, well its an easy choice.

Plus those centrists WILL be more pliable given the Democratic base than a guy like Trump whose base only cares about pissing off progressives and liberals.

[Edited on September 27, 2019 at 7:34 AM. Reason : I don’t think GND is drastic but to a lot it is which is why I used pseudo]

9/27/2019 7:32:24 AM

12 candidates on one stage for one night is pointless at best and bad for the party at worst

9/27/2019 11:24:59 AM

That's exactly how Trump got the Republican nomination. He was the loudest and quite frankly, the most entertaining, in a "it's fun to watch a train wreck" kind of way.

9/27/2019 11:42:33 AM

Quote :

"He also believes Warren is no different than Trump. It’s obvious. I don’t understand how you can possibly claim to care about the environment and then turn around and say actually Trump is better than Clinton/Biden. It’s rank stupidity. [Edited on September 27, 2019 at 7:34 AM. Reason : I don’t think GND is drastic but to a lot it is which is why I used pseudo]"

Nice strawman. I said neither of those things and I think you have so much passion that you see what you want to see instead of what is actually written. I don't even think you are being dishonest. I only say this now because you did the same thing with the transcript. Words and sentence structure carry meaning and you can't just swap out words where you want.

Warren was nowhere in my previous post because I don't know about her but based on what she says, she would be the greatest president ever (low bar). The only question is 'can we trust her?'. I think the only difference between me and you on Warren is that you think she is 100% genuine and believe she would fight to execute all of her plans. If I believed all that, I'd be completely on board. To me, its blind trust that she has changed. You've been burned before.

Things are a lot more complex than you think. The president doesn't control everything and its important to consider all factors because the sum of everything else has a much greater impact on reality than the person in the white house.

Quote :

"I tend to support pseudo-drastic measures like the Green New Deal but I also realize that if the alternative is a scaled down more centrist version or complete deregulation of entire energy industries, well its an easy choice. Plus those centrists WILL be more pliable given the Democratic base than a guy like Trump whose base only cares about pissing off progressives and liberals."

Centrists will not voluntarily move to the left. That is pure fantasy because there is always a next election and there is no way they would give up on their current strategy after success when they won't even give up on it after failure.

Lets evaluate this "easy choice"

scaled down centrist solution
-leads to climate catastrophe
-makes people complacent because they think the problem has been solved
-undermines all future attempts to solve the problem because "we already tried"
-wastes time that we can no longer afford to waste
-costs a lot of money that could be better spent elsewhere

complete deregulation
-leads to climate catastrophe
-fires up people to take direct action against it
-motivates people to come back more aggressively against climate change in 4 years
-saves money. people can't care about climate change when they can barely get by.

Both are awful but I can't find any silver lining in some centrist bullshit like paris. At least Trump gets people going. Its a very liberal notion that you can live your comfortable life and just vote for someone to take care of all of the problems. Well its not that simple, this isn't like how you hire your gardners and tutors. You have to be willing to make actually sacrifices. Voting is not enough. My biggest fear is that if we lose Trump for a friendly monster like Biden, the masses will go back to not caring just like they didn't care for 8 years of Obama.

I was working with desert angels and we barely had funds for water then suddenly, Trump came along and donations have poured in. Now we have the funds for unlimited water, food and can even hire immigration lawyers, AIRBNB rentals, and bus tickets. Anyone who is actually on the ground working in activism knows that the anger and passion around Trump has been the best thing happen on the front line. That doesn't mean we like him. We just want people to actively defy the system.

[Edited on September 27, 2019 at 12:58 PM. Reason : telling that me saying "centrist" makes dtownral think "warren"]

9/27/2019 12:44:25 PM

>iTs mOrE cOmPlEX tHAn yOu tHink

>tRuMP wOulD bE bEtTEr tHaN wArREN bEcAUsE a FeW cHArItIEs wOuLd gEt dOnATiOnS

9/27/2019 12:49:09 PM

On the topic of the next debate, I do wish that we had fewer people than last time. It's really hard to make headway and hear enough from contenders if the breadth is so large. I'd also prefer if it were more than just a Trump bashing party. We get it, Trump is bad. That's why we are all watching your debate. Give me fewer talking points on Trump and more on what distinguishes you all from each other.

9/27/2019 1:15:27 PM

So what was that about Warren being a Wall Street sell-out?
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/wall-street-democratic-donors-may-back-trump-if-warren-is-nominated.html

Quote :

"You don't understand how the election works. Voting for Trump is the only way to help Trump. Trump can't win without people voting for him."

Sounds like you don't understand how the election works. Only way to beat him is for someone else to get more votes than him. It doesn't matter how few he gets if someone else doesn't get more. Because our election process is bullshit and we award electoral votes to plurality winners and not majority.

Quote :

"Negative motivation is always weaker than positive motivation in terms of getting people to show up and vote."

Unless you're trying to get people to vote for Trump. Worked pretty well for him.

Quote :

"how much people have become engaged in activism due to Trump"

But...I thought negative motivation didn't work?

9/27/2019 1:48:46 PM

Yes, rich people like Warren:
https://twitter.com/IbrahimAS97/status/1177719744096559110?s=19

9/28/2019 1:36:17 PM

Quote :

"Things are a lot more complex than you think. The president doesn't control everything and its important to consider all factors because the sum of everything else has a much greater impact on reality than the person in the white house."

horosho, with respect to the general election, please read and take to heart the words of bernie sanders when he endorsed bill clinton (from his book, "Outsiders in the White House"):

Quote :

""In terms of who to support for president, the choice is really not difficult. I am certainly not a big fan of Bill Clinton’s politics. As a strong advocate of a single-payer health care system, I opposed his convoluted health care reform package. I have helped lead the opposition to his trade policies, which represent the interests of corporate America and which are virtually indistinguishable from the views of George Bush and Newt Gingrich. I opposed his bloated military budget, the welfare reform bill that he signed, and the so-called Defense of Marriage Act, which he supported. He has been weak on campaign finance reform and has caved in far too often on the environment. Bill Clinton is a moderate Democrat. I’m a democratic socialist. Yet, without enthusiasm, I’ve decided to support Bill Clinton for president. Perhaps “support” is too strong a word. I’m planning no press conferences to push his candidacy, and will do no campaigning for him. I will vote for him, and make that public. Why? I think that many people do not perceive how truly dangerous the political situation in this country is today. If Bob Dole were to be elected president and Gingrich and the Republicans were to maintain control of Congress, we would see a legislative agenda unlike any in the modern history of this country. There would be an unparalleled war against working people and the poor, and political decisions would be made that could very well be irreversible. Medicare and Medicaid would certainly be destroyed, and tens of millions more Americans would lose their health insurance. Steps would be taken to privatize Social Security, and the very existence of public education in America would be threatened. Serious efforts would be made to pass a constitutional amendment to ban abortion, affirmative action would be wiped out, and gay bashing would intensify. A flat tax would be passed, resulting in a massive shift in income from the working class to the rich, and all of our major environmental legislation would be eviscerated. The Motor Voter bill would be repealed, and legislation making it harder for people to vote would be passed. Union-busting legislation would become law, the minimum wage would be abolished, and child labor would increase. Adults and kids in America would be competing for $3.00-an-hour jobs. You think I’m kidding. You think I’m exaggerating. Well, I’m not. I work in Congress. I listen to these guys every day. They are very serious people. And the folks behind them, the Christian Coalition, the NRA, the Heritage Foundation, and others, are even crazier than they are. My old friend Dick Armey is not some wacko member of Congress laughed at by his colleagues. He is the Majority Leader of the U.S. House of Representatives. Check out his views. No. I do not want Bob Dole to be president. I’m voting for Bill Clinton. Do I have confidence that Clinton will stand up for the working people of this country—for children, for the elderly, for the folks who are hurting? No, I do not. But a Clinton victory could give us some time to build a movement, to develop a political infrastructure to protect what needs protecting, and to change the direction of the country." I wouldn't be terribly upset if he repeated this sometime soon."

if bernie sanders could suck it up and endorse bill clinton, and then later suck it up and actively campaign for hillary clinton, surely you can suck it up and vote for whomever the democratic candidate ends up being to remove donald trump from office

9/28/2019 2:57:18 PM

Thats my problem with Bernie. He doesn't even fight back against the democrats after they screwed him. Hell, he joined the democrats. My biggest gripe against him is not running as an independent. Just because I'd vote for Bernie and think he's a great guy, doesn't mean I think he's omnipotent and blindly follow everything he says. I don't think he's militant enough. He lets DNC push him around.

You can't view one election in isolation. How did electing Clinton work out through today? Do you think we would be in a worse position today if Clinton lost that election? I don't know because thats a very complicated question but its worth thinking about. You can't just look at single elections in isolation. The world goes on after the next 4 years and then what? In my opinion, decisions like that inevitably lead to someone like Trump. If you don't hold the line, things continue to shift further and further right. Where does it end? In the near future, a Trump 2.0 will be even further to the right and more extreme than Trump and you guys will be voting for someone like Trump just because Trump 2.0 is much much worse.

Quote :

"Sounds like you don't understand how the election works. Only way to beat him is for someone else to get more votes than him. It doesn't matter how few he gets if someone else doesn't get more. Because our election process is bullshit and we award electoral votes to plurality winners and not majority."

So you admit Trump has supporters and those supporters are the ones helping him win. Neutrality isn't helping him win unless you also admit that they is the stronger candidate. I"m just saying why not start giving those votes to someone who is actually good? Thats what I do.

Quote :

"Unless you're trying to get people to vote for Trump. Worked pretty well for him."

No he motivates people to vote FOR him. A much larger % of his votes came from people who wanted HIM compared to people who voted for Hillary because they wanted HER. The whole campaign was vote for HIM so he can win or vote for HER so he can't win. Its a losing strategy and it would be even worse this time now that his supporters know he has delivered for 4 years instead of simply believing he would live up to his banter.

Quote :

"But...I thought negative motivation didn't work?"

Activism is positive motivation. Voting democrat is voting so really bad things don't happen. Activism is going out and doing a good thing yourself. The key is that people don't bother to think about activism if they have a president who makes beautiful speeches that make them feel warm and fuzzy about the state of the country and world.

Quote :

"Yes, rich people like Warren: https://twitter.com/IbrahimAS97/status/1177719744096559110?s=19 "

Remember almost of the "journalists" working for MSM are actually plants and these are the people setting the national narrative.

[Edited on September 28, 2019 at 3:34 PM. Reason : follow the money etc etc]

9/28/2019 3:29:16 PM

Maybe, just maybe, Bernie is smarter than you and knows third parties arent real and the only way to change anything is to try to change one of the 2 parties. Just maybe.

9/28/2019 3:49:40 PM

asking workers on camera how long their strike fund can last is probably bad, right?
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1178012466133000196

9/28/2019 5:33:55 PM

There are already two young couples under 40 surviving to the next debate. The next POTUS could be the just among us.

9/30/2019 8:37:19 AM

Sanders raised $25.3 M in Q3, September was a record for the campaign for both total raised and number of individual contributions

[Edited on October 1, 2019 at 7:30 AM. Reason : 3.3M contributions this year, avg $19]

10/1/2019 7:29:23 AM

Ridiculously good fundraising numbers that glow away the rest of the field.

I still need to see him start rising in polls but with those numbers it’s hard not to see that happening.

10/1/2019 7:34:07 AM

^i wouldn’t say “blow away the field”...Last 2 quarters combined Buttigieg has raised as much as Bernies last 2 quarters

10/1/2019 8:18:19 AM

buttigieg has had a great Q2 and Q3 but his total for those quarters is still $7M less than Sanders, and he's still about $20M behind for the year

buttigieg will continue to do well though, i assume he will start filling biden's slot



i can't wait to read more stories about how sanders' fundraising has slowed and he should drop out

[Edited on October 1, 2019 at 9:01 AM. Reason : .]

10/1/2019 8:39:30 AM

good quarter for Sanders. I'm very excited to look at all the FEC numbers

Buttigieg raised $19M (down from his Q2 $24.8M) and is at 580k total contributors, a increase of 182k since end of Q2

little bit of a shakeup going on over at the Harris campaign
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/09/30/kamala-harris-2020-shakeup-campaign-013861

[Edited on October 1, 2019 at 9:11 AM. Reason : .]

10/1/2019 9:06:41 AM

^^where do you get those numbers? Buttigieg raised 24.9 and 19.1, sanders raised 25.3 and like 18.5. Ytd sanders is at 60.1, buttigieg 51

10/1/2019 10:33:03 AM

Sanders
Q1 - $20.7M
Q2 - $25.7M
Q3 - $25.3M


Buttigeig
Q1 - $7.1M
Q2 - $24.9M
Q3 - $19.1M

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/president/democratic-primary/candidates/fundraising-and-campaign-finance-tracker/

10/1/2019 10:57:22 AM

Yeah, I don't think gay is really a matter. Tim Cook is a gay, who cares??

10/1/2019 11:14:25 AM

that hurts him way less than his trouble with black voters

10/1/2019 11:42:53 AM

Booker raised 6M in Q3, 2.1M of which was in the last 10 days of the quarter

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/01/cory-booker-fundraising-014711

10/1/2019 12:14:32 PM

does warren, harris, and biden not releasing numbers yet mean they aren't as high as expectations?

lol:
https://twitter.com/LukewSavage/status/1179043724522864640

[Edited on October 1, 2019 at 1:11 PM. Reason : .]

10/1/2019 12:49:32 PM

Now they just have to figure out a way to twist this. Maybe they will just have to say whoever has the largest donations is actually bound for success? I don't know. Start your gymgines!

[Edited on October 1, 2019 at 1:46 PM. Reason : MSM order up some more "wall street exec says warren presidency would suck" articles STAT]

10/1/2019 1:21:22 PM

^ Indistinguishable from Trump, but ostensibly from the left.

10/1/2019 3:46:03 PM

^^^
nate silver is such a bastard

[Edited on October 1, 2019 at 3:52 PM. Reason : .]

10/1/2019 3:52:30 PM

Nate Silver is still, by far, the best around to make sense of polling and probabilities but man is he fucking TERRIBLE as a pundit. He’d be far better off staying in his lane.

10/1/2019 3:55:30 PM

he really hates bernie sanders for some reason

10/1/2019 3:56:26 PM

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1179123137658540033?s=21

New, SC poll and wow, Pete gets literally 0% support from African Americans. I do wonder if him being gay has a huge effect in a state like SC with a large proportion of evangelical African Americans. It has to.

10/1/2019 4:02:26 PM

warren only got 4% from african americans in SC

(biden 45%, sanders 13%, harris 6%, buttigieg 0%, yang 0%)


In the Nevada poll the non-white demographic (not sure why they just use non-white) was better for warren at 17% (sanders 27%, biden 24%) but still bad for harris (6%) buttigieg (2%) and yang (2%)

10/1/2019 4:18:52 PM

Kamala raised 11.6M in Q3 (vs 11.8M in Q2)

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/01/harris-campaign-money-third-quarter-015749

[Edited on October 1, 2019 at 4:35 PM. Reason : .]

10/1/2019 4:34:24 PM

^^sorry, article i read said he had raised 61.5 million so far. My apologies
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sen-bernie-sanders-raised-253-million-in-third-quarter-campaign-says/2019/10/01/5d8a0e00-e3c7-11e9-a331-2df12d56a80b_story.html

10/1/2019 5:07:35 PM

Of course they are homophobic but its more than that. They are wholly conservative. SC is one of the most backwards places on Earth. Thats the only reason they have that primary early so they can skew the primary to the right. Everyone who isn't perceived as strongly moderate is going to suffer in the south period. Add all that together and you get a festival for good ole Biden and a disaster for everyone else.

Theres also the South Bend police incident which is an admirable reason to avoid him.

10/1/2019 11:41:36 PM

I reckon 10% of people they polled would have any idea of what happened in South Bend. Early primaries and the polls surrounding them are all about name recognition, looks, and a few soundbites seen on tv.

10/2/2019 9:31:46 AM

Yang campaign raised $10M in Q3, up from $2.8M in Q2

a week ago the campaign set a goal to raise $1.5M by the end of the quarter.

they hit the $1.5M goal with a day to spare and then set a stretch goal to hit $2M, which they also hit

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/02/andrew-yang-10-million-third-quarter-017382

10/2/2019 9:44:05 AM

Is his goal to run as an independent?

10/2/2019 9:46:13 AM

Is Bernie's?

10/2/2019 9:51:06 AM

no.

other candidates are in politics, rich narcissists, or want to sell books. yang isn't in politics, doesn't immediately strike me as a rich narcissist. i see that he has a book last year but I haven't really seen it being promoted so I'm not sure that's his angle. if he's not a rich narcissist or trying to sell a book then i assume he's serious, and in that case must realize an independent run would be his only path to the ballot.

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 10:13 AM. Reason : .]

10/2/2019 9:54:35 AM

Quote :

" other candidates are in politics, rich narcissists, or want to sell books. yang isn't in politics, doesn't immediately strike me as a rich narcissist. i see that he has a book last year but I haven't really seen it being promoted so I'm not sure that's his angle. if he's not a rich narcissist or trying to sell a book then maybe he is serious"

you're exactly right, which is why the media and frankly much of the voting public hasn't figured him out yet. they expect him to be a Hermain Cain or Rent-Is-Too-High kind of guy and figure they can just dismiss him as not serious.

yes he's new to politics, but he's a thoughtful guy who has put a lot of work into developing a transparent set of policy positions not constrained by the establishment thought bubble. yes he still has a high learning curve as does any potential president, but your average politician has been letting Americans down for decades, so "being in politics" has become less essential a requirement in the minds of many voters, and is a big factor in his rising support.

yang isn't running for President because he wants to BE President. he just wants to solve problems in America. he thought he was doing it at his non-profit by teaching young people how to become entrepreneurs, but realized the problems were much bigger and that he maybe could help solve those. that's why he's running, he's not about ego or climbing the political career ladder or sticking it to political rivals. and that plus his innovation policy thinking are a big part of what his supporters appreciate about him.

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 10:27 AM. Reason : anyways, I'll go back to stanning Yang in chitchat and leave this thread for the rest of the field]

10/2/2019 10:25:49 AM

(i changed my language a bit in the part you bolded because i didn't intend for it to be as dismissive as it came across)

Quote :

" that's why he's running, he's not about ego or climbing the political career ladder or sticking it to political rivals."

I'm not sure why from your post, you said solving problems but if he doesn't want/expect to be president how is he solving problems? raising awareness for UBI?

10/2/2019 10:38:10 AM

Bernie had an emergency heart procedure last night.

Hope he recovers quickly but scary.

10/2/2019 10:41:25 AM

ouch, that's going to really hurt him in the polls

10/2/2019 10:46:24 AM

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 11:25 AM. Reason : <3]

10/2/2019 10:49:07 AM

Quote :

" if he doesn't want/expect to be president how is he solving problems? raising awareness for UBI?"

I didn't say he doesn't want to be President, I said he's not running because he wants to be President.
He wants to be President, so he can have a better chance of fixing the problems that he sees needs to be fixed.
Same as any other Presidential candidate.

And yes, he 100% fully expects to be elected president.

Raising awareness for UBI and the effect of technology on our economy and society are certainly primary goals, but there is much more to his campaign.

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 10:56 AM. Reason : https://twitter.com/Zach_Graumann/status/1164759826510913538]

10/2/2019 10:52:09 AM