Anecdotally, in my experience the only difficult part of the fast is somewhere around 10-12 hours when I start getting hungry. By pushing the start of the fast up to 4 pm, I blasted right through that while I was asleep. Im now 16 hours in with no hunger yet, and since I just took 200mg of caffeine these next 8-14 hours should be simple. I'll probably take another 200 mg before noon to be safe, but I'm pretty wired now given how empty my stomach is.


Also of note I consumed about 1.5 gallons of water yesterday. By the time I went to bed I was up to 179 lbs and tricked the scale into 23.2% body fat. I think this is interesting because I weighed 170 lbs not even a week ago. I think this is a good illustration of why when we "lose 10 lbs on a diet" we always gain it back immediately when we quit the diet. The first ten pounds are really a mirage of water, glycogen, and food in your stomach.



[Edited on December 10, 2012 at 8:01 AM. Reason : a]

12/10/2012 7:55:51 AM

Quote :

"Also of note I consumed about 1.5 gallons of water yesterday. By the time I went to bed I was up to 179 lbs and tricked the scale into 23.2% body fat "

Trick the scale? You really shouldn't use a scale if you're gonna talk body fat. Go to a trainer or doctor who can use calipers or bioimpedance for a more accurate measurement of body composition.

12/10/2012 9:16:36 AM

Yeah no Shit. I spent half of last page explaining that the scale isn't accurate. I know approximately what body fat % I am. The scale will just be monitored for relative changes, not absolute ones.

Since I'm going to be losing approximately 10% body fat in just a few months, the results will be profound enough that a scale won't really matter, the pictures will speak for themselves.

Had to take another 200mg caffeine and ramp up water intake as I am slightly hungry at the 20 hour fasting mark.

[Edited on December 10, 2012 at 11:50 AM. Reason : a]

12/10/2012 11:49:56 AM

Ive never posted in this thread before, but you have compelled me. What you're doing sounds crazy unhealthy.

12/10/2012 12:14:47 PM

There is nothing unhealthy or unnatural about fasting and it is the best way to burn bodyfat quickly without enduring calorie intake so low that you'll lose a significant amount of muscle mass.

I will say as I enter hour 21, I'm significantly more hungry than I should be. Likely a function of undereating 50g of protein and not finishing up with a slow digesting protein.

Also, I'm accustomed to going 14-16 hours everyday before I flood my body with food, so its also a function of what your bodies blood sugar is used to. This is why I encourage people new to fasting to work up to 14-18 hours rather than diving right in.

At this point I think ill call the fast around 6 pm when I get home which is 26 hours and then eat for ~4 hours before immediately beginning a new 24-36 hour fasting cycle. It's important to listen to your body when you initially alter your diet like this and preserving lean muscle has to be the ultimate priority even if it costs you a little bit of short term fat loss in the early going.

[Edited on December 10, 2012 at 1:12 PM. Reason : a]

12/10/2012 12:59:59 PM

Whatever he's doing has already given him some truly delicious looking tits.

12/10/2012 1:11:42 PM

Lol, well one negative side effect of alcohol is that it increases estrogen and reduces testosterone so you can develop a case of the bitch tits.

Pecs have always been my worst developed muscle group, and unfortunately you can't change the shape of your muscle only the size. With as much shoulder trouble as I have ill just have to live with a relatively unimpressive chest. All the more reason to compensate with shoulders and arms which develop quite easily for me. You can't triple stamp a double stamp, nor can you alter your genetics without steroids.

12/10/2012 1:25:32 PM

http://www.leangains.com/

12/10/2012 1:34:21 PM

Quote :

"lol you have fat storage in your lower abdomen from alcohol bloat. "

Looks like regular fat to me. Alcohol is a diuretic and it's not uncommon to weigh less than normal after a night of drinking, especially if you stuck to liquor. If you had a lot of beer or maybe did some drunk eating, yeah, you might look a little puffy the day after.

Body fat % by a scale isn't even worth tracking. Best approach, in my opinion: weigh every day at the same time, preferably in the morning after emptying your bladder. I normally see a 3-4 lb fluctuation from one day to the next, but it depends. You take note of this number and look at weekly averages. If you're doing it right, you should be losing 1.5-2 lbs a week, closer to .5-1 lbs when you approach 10% BF. Strength is a pretty good proxy for muscle retention. If your lift maxes are dropping then your deficit is probably too large.

Quote :

"There is nothing unhealthy or unnatural about fasting and it is the best way to burn bodyfat quickly without enduring calorie intake so low that you'll lose a significant amount of muscle mass. "

I don't think fasting is that much better for fat loss. Compliance is easier due to the smaller feeding window and it simplifies your life, but if you were to eat the exact same foods except throughout the day rather than in a 4 hour period, I think the rate of fat loss would be nearly identical. Yes, I've read all of LG countless times, increased catecholamine levels, I know. I just don't think the difference between approaches is dramatic.

As far as fasting being unhealthy, I'd love to see some studies supporting that assertion. No studies, right? It just sounds unhealthy.

Quote :

"With as much shoulder trouble as I have ill just have to live with a relatively unimpressive chest."

Cable work? Neutral grip DB press?

[Edited on December 10, 2012 at 1:48 PM. Reason : ]

12/10/2012 1:45:32 PM

how do you keep from getting light headed/passing out when you fast for that long?

12/10/2012 2:11:32 PM

LOL, at women eyeballing me in a grainy pic and telling me what bodyfat% I am. The difference between women and men bodyfat% is extreme.

Bodyfat is hard enough to eyeball, and if anyone would know better than me Matt just said I'm probably 18-20% which I agree with. It's football season/winter so I'm a solid 4-5% higher than I am in the summer because I don't worry about it.

Fat loss is easy for me, it just takes diet discipline. You don't need extreme amounts of cardio or eating bland crap you hate. I've done this countless times and the science is all there. Have you never met anyone you work with that is too busy to eat lunch everyday? How does he look, is he fat???


^ I didn't start getting light headed at all until the last hour or so. That is due to me not being used to pushing the fast beyond 14-16 hours. This will be overcome in a few days as my body gets used to a new regulated eating pattern. Your body does not NEED food that often, it just thinks it does if you've made it accustomed to getting it that often.

[Edited on December 10, 2012 at 2:17 PM. Reason : a]

12/10/2012 2:14:09 PM

i don't think its so much the fasting that has people chatting this thread up but moreso the fact that you drink so much and think that it's healthy to do so. all that alcohol cannot be good for your liver.

12/10/2012 2:35:10 PM

It sounds like your only fitness goal is to hide your alcoholism.

12/10/2012 2:39:17 PM

Okay ended the fast at 5:30 after 25.5 hours. Not going to lie the last 3 hours of that sucked, which is why i say make the transition slowly. I was to trained for 14-16 hours so when i didn't gorge then my body started screaming at me shortly after haha.

Weighed in at 173.4 and 21.4% bodyfat, which is down 2.6 lbs and 0.6% bodyfat from where I started, but obviously weighing in at mid day isn't an official measurement since I'm full of water today.

I polished off 2 gallons of water while at work which normally should have led to extreme amounts of bathroom breaks but didn't really. I think it's because the creatine is causing me to retain water right now because even after the first gallon i felt a bit dehydrated.

Feels good to have that first day over with. Already consumed 100g protein, just need another 150g shortly and then i can start drinking whiskey a little later. Planning to cut myself off around midnight and not eat/drink anything but water/caffeine/green tea on Tuesday at all if possible but definitely not before close to bed.

12/10/2012 5:44:50 PM

I still don't understand why you need to drink?

Are you an alcoholic?

12/10/2012 8:30:17 PM

Quote :

"CassTheSass cupid 35159 Posts user info edit post i don't think its so much the fasting that has people chatting this thread up but moreso the fact that you drink so much and think that it's healthy to do so. all that alcohol cannot be good for your liver. 12/10/2012 2:35:10 PM "

No, the fasting is retarded too.

12/10/2012 8:52:16 PM

I used to do intermittent fasting (2+ years). Worked fine with my schedule...no loss in performance, loss a little fat, etc...granted the fasts were only 16 hours with an 8 hour feeding window.


Still don't see a problem with fasting.

12/10/2012 9:06:28 PM

He has fasting down to a science, I'd like to see him do the same with drinking.

12/10/2012 9:06:41 PM

I like getting women more than I like keeping them. Alcohol helps with both. And it's fun.

12/10/2012 9:32:19 PM

Quote :

"No, the fasting is retarded too."

Quote :

"I'd love to see some studies supporting that assertion"

12/10/2012 9:40:50 PM

For some reason people who have failed at dieting have a vested interest in seeing other people fail at dieting. It's like since they haven't been able to do it, they don't want to see anyone else do it.

The negative energy people feed me is somewhat motivating. I gather speed from you fucking with me.

If it doesn't work you guys can talk all the crap about fasting you want (though it'll probably be my fault, not the diet's itself).

If it does work, I've documented a fairly easy way to lose a ton of bodyfat in a short period of time without devoting abnormal time to the gym/running. Isn't that what the people want? Don't they demand it?

12/10/2012 10:03:56 PM

Alright you guys convinced me not to drink tonight.

Re-started the fast at 11 PM. Going to fast 18-22 hours before I hit the gym tomorrow evening.

Consumed approximately 200g of protein, ~50g fat, ~25-30g carb. Should be enough to last until I take some BCAA prior to my workout.

Drinking on Wednesday though. Wednesdays are sacred. And thursday for a christmas function.

[Edited on December 10, 2012 at 11:16 PM. Reason : a]

12/10/2012 11:16:01 PM

Face, I understand the feelings about the haters. I got a lot of flack last year about some of my dieting strategies. Some of it was understandable. I agree a lot of people who have failed at body recomposition seem to have a chip on their shoulder.

Although, a lot of the negativity is directed at your dogma about refusing to drink less. That's the single best thing you could do for your health & physique.

[Edited on December 11, 2012 at 6:17 AM. Reason : words]

12/11/2012 6:17:12 AM

Quote :

"I like getting women more than I like keeping them."

I thought you had fallen in love recently.


I'm not going to hate on face's drinking habits. I drink consistently as he does...just not as much. I think the volume could be a problem...but if he can control it, then more power to him.

12/11/2012 6:33:51 AM

Woke up at 173.3 and 21.3. Pretty incredible those are nearly the exact measurements I weighed in at before I broke the fast last evening. Today's fast will yield significant changes on the scale I'd bet I'm 171 and 20.5 by the time I get home.

Already 9 hours in with minimal feeling of hunger. Beginning copious amounts of caffeine and water consumption.

12/11/2012 8:02:29 AM

Quote :

"For some reason people who have failed at dieting have a vested interest in seeing other people fail at dieting. It's like since they haven't been able to do it, they don't want to see anyone else do it."

to be honest - i have had a lot of success by just eating healthy and working out consistently. my lifestyle and allergy issues are not a "diet." i have 2 choices - i can either eat right and be healthy (low weight, low body fat) or i can eat stuff that is bad in general and bad for me and i die. i don't think people want to see you fail - again i think they're more concerned about your reasoning behind the mass amounts of alcohol you drink. and then the fact that you think it's perfectly healthy.

but then again, my ultimate goal isn't to watch the "fat melt off."

12/11/2012 8:11:36 AM

He didn't say drinking is healthy -- he said the diet is healthy. The guy already said the amount of drinking is non-negotiable, and the diet is the best you can do taking that into account.

You aren't going to nag someone you aren't fucking out of drinking, smoking, whatever fuck they want to do.

12/11/2012 8:52:50 AM

Figure this is a good question for eleusis or mattjm....

I know I need to spike my insulin to get maximum creatine absorption. My question is how is the best way to do this while trying to maintain low carb?

Currently I take creatine when I first break the fast, since my insulin should spike a lot then. I have a little bit of grape juice, but I don't like to drink more than like 3 oz bc of the high sugar content. Will grapefruit juice also work? It has some fat burning properties but I'm worried that its too acidic to work for creatine absorption.

Bear in mind I'm taking in 100g of protein (~60 from whey alone) when I break the fast and I've read that if taken with protein, you can get away with much less sugar intake to create the same insulin spike.

12/11/2012 10:18:23 AM

Yea, unbeknownst to low carb zealots, protein spikes insulin about as much as carbs do.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, just get 5grams in a day of creatine and have it with a little sugar.

Don't major in the minors, or waste time worrying about minutiae. Where you are in your dieting/training simply requires getting your calories, protein, and strength training/recovery right.

12/11/2012 10:34:41 AM

Okay that makes me feel better then. I'm an obsessive person about efficiency. If I don't major in the minutae I will just quit on day 6 haha.

For those of you who have never earnestly cut weight, cutting sucks. I don't buy into this whole "change your lifestyle" mindset. That's fine for obese and fat people , because they need to do that.

But for people who already eat somewhat healthy and workout occasionally and aren't willing to change their lifestyle to full time fitness I believe the most effective method is to take it full on for as long as you can before you invariably quit a few weeks later.

My motto is EMBRACE THE SUCK.

12/11/2012 10:52:40 AM

Quote :

"For some reason people who have failed at dieting have a vested interest in seeing other people fail at dieting. It's like since they haven't been able to do it, they don't want to see anyone else do it. "

I don't diet. I eat what I want. I drink what I want. I work out, but it's mainly to blow off steam/relieve work stress. And I maintain around 14% to 15% body fat (as a woman).

The key is moderation. And establishing a balanced lifestyle.

I do not want to see you fail. But I also think it's important to set yourself up for long-term success and happiness. Also, it's important to be realistic about the long-term effects of your lifestyle choices.

That's all. Good luck.

Quote :

"For those of you who have never earnestly cut weight, cutting sucks. I don't buy into this whole "change your lifestyle" mindset. That's fine for obese and fat people , because they need to do that. But for people who already eat somewhat healthy and workout occasionally and aren't willing to change their lifestyle to full time fitness I believe the most effective method is to take it full on for as long as you can before you invariably quit a few weeks later. "

I have cut weight before. And for most people, there are a couple of minor tweaks you can make to your lifestyle that will have a drastic effect on your physique, whether it's cutting back on soda or just being more aware of portion sizes. Or cutting back a smidge on certain guilty pleasures.

/preach

[Edited on December 11, 2012 at 10:56 AM. Reason : .]

12/11/2012 10:52:49 AM

are you working out while you are fasting? i think you may have said you were lifting weights but not doing much cardio.

i just wonder because i will go to sleep, wake up, wait a few hours, go to the gym on an empty stomach (usually i take a stacker or drink a sugar free rockstar). so that would put me usually around 12-16 hours without eating (i usually eat dinner at work around 5, but sometimes eat again later that night).

but my question is how do you keep from getting light headed? there have been plenty of times at the gym where i have to just stop because i think i will pass out otherwise. and that would be really embarrassing.

i started eating a little before i work out (half a tuna salad sandwich or something like that) but then people tell me it is best to work out on an empty stomach.

maybe i just get lightheaded easier than other people. i passed out in my kitchen earlier this year for pretty much no reason so now i am just paranoid i guess.

12/11/2012 11:46:23 AM

Quote :

"i started eating a little before i work out (half a tuna salad sandwich or something like that) but then people tell me it is best to work out on an empty stomach. "

I have had the same experiences. There are a lot of people that do fasted/BCAA-supplemented training, but I don't like it. I feel weak and I do get light headed.

The only thing that I see as being worth doing on an empty stomach is light cardio.

12/11/2012 1:18:41 PM

I don't know that I'm qualified to answer that question because I can only answer from my personal experience. Training fasted is fine for me. I do use BCAA prior to lifting weights.

16 hours fasted may be a bit too long for females, or it could be that you haven't built up to doing that many hours comfortably enough that you can lift fasted. I know based on how I felt from hours 22-25 a workout would have been hell for me. But a few hours before that I would have been fine.

I also supplement with multivitamins, calcium, vitamin d while maintaining a pretty balanced diet. It could be that you have mineral deficiencies in your diet. Someone with better medical knowledge would have to weigh in.

12/11/2012 2:21:54 PM

FACE 2013 FASTING AND STARVING BEACHBODY CHALLENGE

12/11/2012 4:27:15 PM

this thread moves now!

12/11/2012 4:31:04 PM

yep isn't it about time for the new thread?

12/11/2012 4:40:05 PM

yeah I have no goals though. I just want to stay INJURY FREE!

12/11/2012 4:45:02 PM

^Stop doing Crossfit.

I've come to the conclusion that crossfit isn't a training program. It's a sport. Sports = Competition. Competition = willing to sacrifice short and long term health for competitive advantage. With that in mind, it's not a big shocker so many people get injured "training" with crossfit.

12/11/2012 5:26:12 PM

^ I'd agree with that. Unless you need the adrenaline rush to stay motivated, other fitness programs are just as effective as CrossFit, especially if you have injuries.

12/11/2012 5:42:56 PM

Lifted heavy today (got to lift heavy to preserve muscle on a diet this low in calories) and then broke the fast at 6:30 after 17.5 hours. Then consumed 160g of protein in fifteen minutes lol with minimal carbs/fat because there's a slim chance I go out tonight and I didn't want to store fat if that happens. If I don't go out I'll eat a little more fat/carbs in an hour or two.

I would have gone a little longer but I wanted to ensure I got a good lift and give my body some time to absorb the protein if I go out.

I forgot to weigh in when I got home before I blasted myself with food/whey unfortunately, but my belt is barely fitting on the final loop right now so I'll probably be shopping this weekend or next.

12/11/2012 7:35:05 PM

I disagree with Matt's comment. It's very easy to stay healthy doing CrossFit if you're smart about it. There's just as much risk for injury doing anything in the gym. It's not limited to CrossFit. I can see how you might think that and I guess to a degree it depends in the programming and gym mentality. I'd still say you're making a pretty broad generalization.

12/11/2012 9:06:42 PM

I'M FAT AND HAPPY

12/11/2012 9:17:29 PM

Man, I started writing this long ass blog style response to Matt, but fuck it, maybe I'll come back to it.

I just wanted to give an update on my progress post microD, it's been 9 months.

12/11/2012 10:05:20 PM

Quote :

"I'd still say you're making a pretty broad generalization."

CrossFit is a direct competition for his business...so his generalization comes as no surprise.

12/12/2012 7:28:15 AM

Quote :

"CrossFit is a direct competition for his business...so his generalization comes as no surprise."

And crossfit is his business, so his bias comes as no surprise.

You can make the argument that crossfit is safe, if you do it safely. Well, no kidding!

The reason I make such a broad statement is this: I have never seen another fitness training program that injures more people.

And, in fact, my next new client consult is with a guy who used to do Crossfit, but quit because he doesn't want to keep getting injured.

One of my trainer's who is a crossfit addict, she's injured from doing a retarded WOD. Acraw, did you not blow out your back doing crossfit? Mike, I think I remember you complaining about injuries awhile back. As I was leaving my massage therapist about a month ago and I chatted up the lady leaving.... she was there due to chronic hip flexor issues, due to crossfit.

I'm not making this shit up. Crossfit is not for the average person if they want the health benefits of training. Crossfit is for athletes who do not fit in to a particular sport but still want to compete in something physical.

And, IMO, the rapid success of crossfit is due to the marketing based on this... People see these athletes who've been training all their life and think to themselves: "I really want that body and to be able to move like that" They get this idea that they have to crush the piss out of themselves every WOD AMRAP for time, not realizing that the top crossfitters usually come from a collegiate or elite level athletics and have been training for decades.

And, you can try to call me out for rupturing my achilles tendon... well to be fair I did not injure it training, but by being stupid and demonstrating something advanced while cold and stiff. I understand injuries do happen with all activity, but they happen a hell of a lot more frequently in crossfit boxes.


EDIT: So I decided to pop over to crossfit.com just to see how their programming looked for the last few days....

The first picture, this looks like a very safe and functional exercise:

And this programming....
"Four rounds for time of:
100 pound Dumbbell snatch, 10 reps
200 foot Sprint"

100lbs dumbbell snatches x40 while fatigued as fast as possible? Hello snap city for the average person.



[Edited on December 12, 2012 at 8:33 AM. Reason : exhibit 1 and 2]

12/12/2012 8:19:04 AM

I tend to agree. I don't get the whole kill yourself at the gym mentality it just seems like you are doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff.

I've decided to implement a new idea into my fasting. Instead of doing 18 hours on, 6 off I am going to try to fast approximately 18 hours and then eat all of my calories within a 1-2 hour window before beginning a new fast. That's right, just one giant meal of food and then back at it.

On days where I drink, this won't be entirely possible, but it gives me flexibility to begin/end a fast at any time. And squeeze as many fasting sessions into a week as possible. Also, its awesome for nights like tomorrow night when I have a holiday function to attend.

Speaking of which, I'm about 15 hours into my current fast. I'm going to crush a huge cheeseburger+egg at noon because its free. Then follow it up with half this huge pot roast I made. Turkey slices and spinach to chase it down
Fasting 4 lyfe.

[Edited on December 12, 2012 at 9:58 AM. Reason : a]

12/12/2012 9:54:56 AM

I can skip breakfast or lunch...but never breakfast and lunch. So if I eat dinner at 7ish...then don't eat again until noon the next day, that's technically a 17 hour fast. Is that what you guys are talking about? Basically just skipping breakfast? What if I have two cups of coffee with splenda and a splash of cream? I've been doing this the past few days and I'm feeling pretty good and I'm shedding those last few lbs that are always nagging...so it seems to be working.

12/12/2012 10:38:38 AM

12/12/2012 11:13:29 AM

Matt- Not...this...again...and...again...and...again

12/12/2012 11:21:04 AM