Literally the only one who will use this negatively (outside of troll twitter) is Trump.

10/2/2019 11:13:07 AM

“During a campaign event yesterday evening, Sen. Sanders experienced some chest discomfort. Following medical evaluation and testing he was found to have a blockage in one artery and two stents were successfully inserted. Sen. Sanders is conversing and in good spirits."

10/2/2019 11:21:13 AM

liberal pundits are absolutely going to use this against him

10/2/2019 11:24:21 AM

Trump fucking up so bad lately and the anchors on MSNBC/CNN do a better job calling him out than those running against him. Not looking good!

10/2/2019 11:28:10 AM

Quote :

"I didn't say he doesn't want to be President, I said he's not running because he wants to be President. He wants to be President, so he can have a better chance of fixing the problems that he sees needs to be fixed. Same as any other Presidential candidate. And yes, he 100% fully expects to be elected president. "

which is why i asked the question about running independent, if he is being serious that is his only option

Quote :

"Literally the only one who will use this negatively (outside of troll twitter) is Trump."

it will be covered in the news, talking heads will talk about his age and health (and ignore the ages of trump, warren, and biden), it will hurt him in the polls without any other candidates using it to attack him.

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 12:39 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2019 12:38:03 PM

Against attacks that both Bernie and Biden are already both too old to run, I don't see how Bernie weathers this operation.

10/2/2019 12:43:08 PM

Counterpoint: a baked potato is more sentient than the current President so maybe it won’t stick?

10/2/2019 12:44:24 PM

baked potatoebaked sweet potato

10/2/2019 12:54:18 PM

to add on to ^^^^ post:
assuming the likely reality that someone other than yang gets the nomination, what does he do? sanders was successful moving the party and getting some concessions despite losing the nomination but that was because he is a presence in democratic politics that wasn't going away and the party had to at least offer something to the support he had built, and his movement has shifted the party. yang isn't in politics, the party won't be forced to offer the same kind of concessions they offered sanders after the last primary and he won't have the same voice to move the party.

any impact of his is over when when the primary is over unless he makes a run as an independent, so if this is a serious movement, is that the goal?

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 1:16 PM. Reason : some]

10/2/2019 1:16:25 PM

Yang wants to get people thinking about UBI which he has already done. Obviously the goal of any campaign is to win but realistically, he just wanted to advance UBI conversation beyond the "but how would we pay for that" relic.


Also, the age old question of "what does Bernie have to do to get media coverage?" has finally been answered.

10/2/2019 1:27:51 PM

Quote :

"sanders was successful moving the party and getting some concessions despite losing the nomination but that was because he is a presence in democratic politics"

sanders was successful because he advanced a vision that unapologetically put the Normal American first. same as what Yang is doing.
Bernie's vision turns many off (or has been poisoned by the media/establishment however you want to frame it) because of its socialist associations and angry old man and angry supporters persona. It also attracts many for those same reasons, but the fact that many are vigorously opposed to Sanders counterbalances a big chunk of the momentum he does have.

Yang's platform addresses many of the same core complaints that Normal Americans have about politics and the economy and the culture surrounding both. He just does it with a different take, that has better solutions and is a fresh brand without Bernie's baggage. There's a LOT of overlap. I get people are loyal to Bernie for the movement he started, he's the OG. But doesn't mean Yang's movement won't prove to be a more successful evolution of Bernie's.

Quote :

"that wasn't going away"

so why assume Yang and his movement will?

Quote :

"and the party had to at least offer something to the support he had built, and his movement has shifted the party."

his movement shifted the party because it was a movement, and the influence of millions of passionate Americans is hard for even the establishment to ignore.

Quote :

"yang isn't in politics, the party won't be forced to offer the same kind of concessions they offered sanders after the last primary"

if Yang's movement grows as strong as Bernie's did, then the party will shift for it too, because like I said, parties shift for movements. And the party will probably more readily shift because at least Yang recognizes the benefits of capitalism with proper incentives, whereas Bernie and his supporters want to burn down capitalism completely. Hillary almost ran on UBI afterall.

Quote :

"and he won't have the same voice to move the party."

why not? big assumption

Quote :

"any impact of his is over when when the primary is over"

assumption

Quote :

"unless he makes a run as an independent"

he is running to solve the problems that got Donald Trump elected. first priority is winning. should that not happen, he has stated that he would not do anything that increases the chance of Donald Trump being re-elected.

he can and will continue to solve the problems that got Donald Trump elected, whether he wins the nomination and the Presidency or not. He just knows it'll be easier if he does win, so that's what he's going to do.

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 2:02 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2019 2:02:14 PM

Quote :

"so why assume Yang and his movement will?"

because he had expressed no interest in politics before running for president so i don't think he will be involved in politics after that is over. people who really want to do this spend time as community organizers or get involved in politics as local levels, they don't run for president.

Quote :

"his movement shifted the party because it was a movement, and the influence of millions of passionate Americans is hard for even the establishment to ignore."

it was a movement of left and left leaning people that captured a significant portion of the democratic party, enough that the democratic party had to offer certain concessions. yang is building a libertarian leaning coalition on a smaller scale, why would the party ever need to move for this?

Quote :

"if Yang's movement grows as strong as Bernie's did, then the party will shift for it too, because like I said, parties shift for movements. And the party will probably more readily shift because at least Yang recognizes the benefits of capitalism with proper incentives, whereas Bernie and his supporters want to burn down capitalism completely. Hillary almost ran on UBI afterall."

if it grows as big it won't be from the left, it will be because it taps into ron paul's former movement. why would this move the democratic party?
(bernie also doesn't want to burn down capitalism completely, he just wants to regulate the market)

Quote :

"he is running to solve the problems that got Donald Trump elected. first priority is winning. should that not happen, he has stated that he would not do anything that increases the chance of Donald Trump being re-elected. he can and will continue to solve the problems that got Donald Trump elected, whether he wins the nomination and the Presidency or not. He just knows it'll be easier if he does win, so that's what he's going to do."

he doesn't have a path though outside of running as an independent, so what is he trying to do?


related question:
Do you think Ross Perot made lasting impacts? Did he have a lasting movement?



[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2019 2:32:00 PM

We don't yet know how large or successful Yang's movement will become. But you keep assuming that it won't be either.

Bernie could have been the Ross Perot of 2016 but he wasn't, he lost but still had a lasting impact on the party that he wasn't even a part of but ran for President with

Trump could have been the Ross Perot of 2016 but he wasn't, he won and had a lasting impact on the party that he wasn't even a part of but ran for President with

people hating typical politicians is a big part of why both Bernie and Trump were successful. so why wouldn't it work for Yang too. we will see what happens.

in the meantime, I'm more interested in discussing the merits of policy and less interested in "my team is better than your team" dynamics

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 3:07 PM. Reason : even NCSU beats UNC every now and then afterall]

10/2/2019 3:05:25 PM

it's disingenuous to say that bernie wasn't "part of the party", he has been caucusing with democrats for decades and is part of the party in a much more significant way than a businessman entering politics for the first time

i brought up perot because i think he is a good comparison to yang, a pro-market technocratic businessman who's "all about the math", and because i think Yang could follow a similar path to influence if he wants to make a difference. I'm not sure about Perot's long term legacy, but he definitely influenced politics at the time and I think his reform party influenced the creation of the tea party which had a big impact changing the republican party.

there are motivations that make sense for other candidates that realistically don't have a chance getting the nomination, but I'm not sure what Yang's motivation is

10/2/2019 3:25:03 PM

Quote :

" he has been caucusing with democrats for decades"

I know, that's why I said it. Bernie supporters hate when other Democrats try to gatekeep him for being an Independent all these years, so would y'all doing it to a newcomer?

Quote :

" perot because i think he is a good comparison to yang"

sure, I understand the comparison. there's a reasonable Ron Paul comparison too, which I have mentioned. Ron Paul had a passionate fanbase and strong quarter over quarter growth while he ran for President, but eventually stalled out and arguably did not move his party very much. same could happen to Yang too. we shall see.

Quote :

" I'm not sure what Yang's motivation is"

I told you. He's just trying to do his part to solve the problems that got Donald Trump elected. In particular because the rest of the politicians (including Bernie) don't want to acknowledge the reasons that Yang is spotlighting or the proper solutions.

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 3:43 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2019 3:42:29 PM

Quote :

"I know, that's why I said it. Bernie supporters hate when other Democrats try to gatekeep him for being an Independent all these years, so would y'all doing it to a newcomer?"

one person has a lifetime in public service, the other is a rich businessman stepping into high level politics without a history of service?

Quote :

"I told you. He's just trying to do his part to solve the problems that got Donald Trump elected. In particular because the rest of the politicians (including Bernie) don't want to acknowledge the reasons that Yang is spotlighting or the proper solutions."

regarding the first part you explained that "doing his part" meant being president and surely even yang can realize he won't get the democratic nomination. if he is just trying to raise awareness this that makes sense i guess, i guess you would need to keep pushing to try to make the stage in november. any goals beyond that, if they are serious, would have to involve an independent run

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 3:50 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2019 3:48:04 PM

Quote :

" one person has a lifetime in public service, the other is a rich businessman stepping into high level politics without a history of service"

yes, Bernie has a lifetime in public service. yay Bernie!

Yang's net worth is around $1M from what I've read, and that includes the equity of his home which I'm sure takes up a big chunk.

Bernie's net worth is $2.5M for reference.

as for service, there are many ways to serve one's nation and communities. becoming a career politician doesn't impress me all that much, particularly if you were doing that for 30 years before you made much of an impact. before running for President, Yang founded and grew a non-profit that teaches recent graduates and young professionals how to start businesses in relatively neglected cities outside the coasts. they're both reasonable measures for one's commitment to the public good imo.

Quote :

" yang can realize he won't get the democratic nomination"

just cus you say it a lot doesn't mean it's true. look who is President right now.


[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 4:16 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2019 4:08:22 PM

that is not sander's net worth per his financial disclosure (it's $729,030 - $1,837,701), $1M would be in the rang for yang ($584,047 - $2,276,015) (who made millions selling a company and paid himself a healthy salary at VFA)

10/2/2019 4:44:18 PM

so they're both in the top 5-10% of Americans by wealth. I don't really see how either one's wealth at this level (esp compared to the rest of the field) is in any way a relevant concern for voters seeing as how both of them made their money in commendable ways, and I certainly don't consider your attempt to characterize Yang as a "rich businessman" and who "made millions" and "paid himself a salary" as anything more than another one of your attempts to discredit him just so you can protect yourself from the thought that another candidate might steal some of Bernie's thunder

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 5:44 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2019 5:41:17 PM

this whole conversation was worth it just to see dtownral call something disingenuous

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 5:58 PM. Reason : ***]

10/2/2019 5:57:00 PM

Hate to interrupt the love fest....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/us/politics/democratic-debate-lineup.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

I’m cool with the field narrowing down to the 5 that qualified for the November debate so far, or 8 if the “on the cusp” people get in too. As long as it is below 10 people

10/2/2019 5:58:50 PM

I'm actually really interested to see how Steyer does at the debate.

He's polling well which surprises me cus I don't see ANYBODY talking about him. The narrative of course is that he's reaching older people with millions of dollars in tv ads, which I guess seems plausible and explains why I wouldn't see anybody talking about him. so many old people in this country, where are they hiding!? cus I want to talk to them.....

not a fan at all of billionaires basically buying their way onto debate stage, but I want to learn more about what his actual platform is and figure out why so many people (whoever they are) are apparently supporting him in these polls

[Edited on October 2, 2019 at 6:35 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2019 6:33:13 PM

^ he's a Bay Area billionaire, so the money is obviously coming from his friends in Silicon Valley and rich Democrats. I think a lot of people underestimate just how stupid rich some people are out here are.

10/2/2019 6:46:59 PM

I thought he was self-funding for the most part?

10/2/2019 6:48:34 PM

Sure, Jan...

10/2/2019 6:59:18 PM

what's yang's gimmick gonna be this time?

10/2/2019 7:44:46 PM

when do we get the remaining q3 numbers?

10/3/2019 8:37:55 AM

The next debate is twelve candidates in one night. Not sure if Bernie will be fine. He can still make it with a fast recovery like Hillary.

10/3/2019 8:42:26 AM

they said he should be back to normal by next week, it's not an invasive procedure

10/3/2019 9:22:23 AM

It's also not a good look and it's not going to help his saggy polling any.

I wish he'd get out and endorse Warren, that could give her enough of a commanding lead to start winnowing the field and eventually push Biden out. I didn't want Biden before and I damn sure don't want him after this Ukraine business.

10/3/2019 9:29:26 AM

it's only october, we still have a few months of it not hurting anything to have multiple candidates

10/3/2019 9:34:39 AM

remember hillarys perceived health was a huge factor and it didnt involve surgery (invasive or not)... the majority of people are just going to see "a severe heart problem and 78 years old."

lol, that time she got tossed limp in the back seat of that SUV on camera like a sack of potatoes.

10/3/2019 10:41:12 AM

It was only a problem because Trump made it a major issue and the media chased the shiny object. There was a ridiculous amount of disinformation about her health floating around.

Aside from a few pundits mentioning age this will only become a big issue for him if another candidate makes it so. And no Dem is as plainly vile as Trump so they won’t. But rest assured, Trump will in a general.

(And much like any of the Biden nonsense NO ONE should make ANY decisions in a primary vote based on what Trump might do)

10/3/2019 10:56:04 AM

does the fact republicans are supporting trump's illegal actions and pushing conspiracy theories against biden undermine the argument that he has made that he's a good candidate because republicans like him and will work with him across the aisle and return us to a more civil time?

10/3/2019 1:03:24 PM

bUt WhAt AbOuT hIs MoDeRaTe PoLiCiEs?

10/3/2019 1:59:27 PM

powerful video someone made for sanders that's being shared all over social media:
https://youtu.be/3ZhkKATtqtU

10/4/2019 9:44:09 AM

Warren raised $24.6M, Buttigieg $19M, Biden $15.2M


Buttigieg needs to find a way to do better with POC so he can take Biden's spot

10/4/2019 11:33:10 AM

Sanders now saying he had a heart attack

10/4/2019 6:53:57 PM

Neoliberals are so lucky and they might even be pushing for Romney vs Hillary in 2020.

10/4/2019 7:34:16 PM

Voted for Romney in 2012, out of choices, I think he’d be ok.

10/4/2019 7:40:28 PM

^^ did the worms infesting your brain type that?

10/5/2019 10:41:58 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_oPh4hNajE
This analysis of Warren supporters really resonated with me. Its never been a problem with the people who give a legitimate reason for why they support Warren but most can't and that enrages me. He points out the main two types of this

1. The fetish for perceived intelligence amongst educated liberals.

This on seems to be the most common. They like her because they think she's so smart. As if that simply being smart is going to accomplish something good for the country. (This is what seems to be the popular POV on this board)

2. Identify politics for the sake of identity politics.

Its time for a woman and bernie is too old and too male.

These people boil my blood.

10/7/2019 7:15:43 PM

Klobuchar raised $4.8M in Q3 with 105k donors

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/07/klobuchar-48-million-third-quarter-038228

10/7/2019 7:44:25 PM

^^There is nothing wrong with being smart. The other side of the aisle has sold America this idea that it's better to be folksy than to be intelligent (as if a person can't be both), and to be intelligent is somehow elitist. I only want the best minds in the conversation. I think Bernie, Warren, Buttigieg, and Yang are the only ones who have shown their minds are always at work.

For every one person who would vote for Warren only because she's a woman, there is another who won't vote for her for the same reason. But let's also recognize how voters are flocking to Warren and not to Harris, so clearly just being a woman isn't enough. That's not identity politics.

10/8/2019 12:55:07 PM

Quote :

"^^There is nothing wrong with being smart. The other side of the aisle has sold America this idea that it's better to be folksy than to be intelligent (as if a person can't be both), and to be intelligent is somehow elitist."

Its not appreciating intelligence that is elitist. Its the idea that you can measure intelligence and that your perception of intelligence is accurate that is elitist. Like somehow you can listen to politicians talk and decipher who has the most intelligence.

Quote :

"For every one person who would vote for Warren only because she's a woman, there is another who won't vote for her for the same reason."

Unsubstantiated.

10/8/2019 3:51:51 PM

Can anyone tell me why it is important that the Sanders campaign didn't disclose his heart attack immediately? Did I miss some super important primary voting date that required us to have his full medical reports annotated?

10/8/2019 4:06:04 PM

Because anything Sanders does = bad

10/8/2019 4:52:48 PM

Conversely, can anyone tell me why Sanders campaign wouldn’t disclose it was a heart attack immediately?

10/8/2019 5:31:20 PM

It takes some time to even get those results

10/8/2019 6:02:12 PM

Quote :

"Unsubstantiated"

Because "Identify politics for the sake of identity politics...Its time for a woman and bernie is too old and too male" is based on actual research?

10/8/2019 6:25:10 PM