How many hours of programming are left? 3 hours and 30 minutes minus commercials. So basically they have the time it takes to show a long movie on TV to wrap up the whole show.

My point is, with so little time left every single minute counts in the programming. We've already seen how pathetic it can get (ghost dad Michael just straight up telling Hurley what the whispers were).

This show, plotwise, is kind of jettisoning the first five seasons. At some points I feel like this season is almost a completely new story.... which makes it easy for me to understand why they're having a hard time answering questions from past seasons.

[Edited on May 12, 2010 at 9:03 PM. Reason : .]

5/12/2010 8:59:54 PM

Honestly, how many questions are left that can't be answered with "Jacob + magic" or "no one fucking knows"? We are never going to know everything about the island. They aren't going to put us in a room with a bunch of TVs and Colonel Sanders and have him explain the origins of everything. That isn't what this show is, or has ever been about.

5/12/2010 9:07:51 PM

As a typical Lost apologist, this episode pissed me off. I can't defend this shit.

5/12/2010 9:20:40 PM

Quote :

"Honestly, how many questions are left that can't be answered with "Jacob + magic" or "no one fucking knows"? "

Every question can be answered with "no one fucking knows". The ball is permanently in their court. Shit's weak.

5/12/2010 9:34:35 PM

Yeah, I can definitely feel you on that. But did we really all watch 119 episodes of this show for answers?

Look, Jacob had to accept his fate without knowing a goddamn thing. That was the whole point of last nights episodes. Now, Jack (or whoever) has to accept his fate without knowing shit either. We, the audience, are not going to know (much) more than Jack or the other Losties. There are only two people on this show who seemed to legitimately know shit, Jacob and Faraday, and both them niggas are dead. This is just the way it's going to be.

5/12/2010 9:47:41 PM

^not necessarily. I'm sure there will be a little bit more of background for jacob/MiB. I doubt jacob's grandma is going to come out and explain anything but we might get a few more pieces of insight.


I like that. I don't want answers i want insight. Answers suck and are not even close to what this show is about. From the beginning this show has referenced all kinds of philosophers, great thinkers, and great books/novels. If you really think they were going to go through all of that shit and then make up some retarded shit on their own then you are just as guilty of stinking up this thread as mambagrl. I challenge someone to name one answer we have been given that wasn't shitty. Would it really make the show better if they subtitled 23 AD? Would it have been better if they spelled out widmore's intentions back in season 2 or 3 whenever the tape was first shown? Would MiB came out and told Sayid why he was alive and different? Would it be better if they explained why archeologist jack knew why the clothes had only aged 50 years?



yes. yes it would.

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

[Edited on May 12, 2010 at 10:11 PM. Reason : ]

5/12/2010 10:06:43 PM

Its clear that the smoke monster was not Jacob's brother. Just as much as it isn't Locke right now. The EXACT same thing happened. Of course they both wanted off the island. So does 95% of everyone else. Those who don't think the "mother" was some sort of smoke monster, how did she kill all those men?

I really have a beef with last episode because of the way it was presented. It wasn't anyones flashback, flash forward memory or story. For the first time in the shows history, it was just "lets just show an entire episode to tie up some loose ends" and they didn't even really do that. Now it will take even more similar scenes to answer all the questions presented last night.

This episode would have been much better as a jacob flashback, you know, when he was alive to have one.

Quote :

" That's more or less what the show's been about since day one. Faith vs. science. I don't think we're ever going to get a concrete answer to who's "right", but I think finale's conclusion has to lean one way or another. I'm guessing it's going to be more towards the faith side of the equation, and we'll never really know what any of this shit actually is."

I think the entire point of the alternate timeline is to show who ends up being "right". Something drastic is going to happen and it will be clear in the final episode.


Also, anytime I read somebody say "in the interviews..." I think "what a fucking faggot." Thats not part of the show.

5/12/2010 10:07:53 PM

^I'm sorry i watch/listen the podcasts a lot and generally they just hint about different ways things could be viewed, because in actuality there are no answers, but for the most part they just introduce things i never would've thought of then immediately offer a counterpoint so that it becomes my job to look for things to see which one seems to be more likely or fit better into what i think the show/island is

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

[Edited on May 12, 2010 at 10:17 PM. Reason : and theres only one more podcast]

5/12/2010 10:14:27 PM

Quote :

"I really have a beef with last episode because of the way it was presented. It wasn't anyones flashback, flash forward memory or story. For the first time in the shows history, it was just "lets just show an entire episode to tie up some loose ends" and they didn't even really do that. Now it will take even more similar scenes to answer all the questions presented last night."

to be fair, richard's episode wasn't really much of a flashback either. yeah it started out with him and the rest of the characters in 2007, but it didn't really phase in and out between 2007 richard and 1800s richard.

Quote :

"I like that. I don't want answers i want insight. Answers suck and are not even close to what this show is about."

i'm not all about getting answers. i don't care why the island is special or who built the statue or why there are supply drops. the island just is. many civilizations have inhabited the island. plane drops still come from dharma. don't care. i didn't even care about the numbers.

but when it's this late in the game, and we were constantly led to believe in the weeks and months leading up to season 6 that there was going to be a good amount of closure on things we had seen over the course of 5 other seasons, it is a bit disconcerting when we get an episode like last night's where it's, "okay so there's this light on the island and men want to possess it but they're all weak and corrupt by their very nature so we have to keep it away from them." i get that it could be symbolic and that jacob never actually knew what it was either, but for all you know, someone could say in the next couple episodes, "yeah that shit is actually ________ and that's why it's important."

i don't expect damon and carlton to pull a george lucas when he demystified the force, and they've explicitly stated that they aren't out to do that. but i have a hard time just saying "okay cool" to what i saw the other night.

Quote :

"then you are just as guilty of stinking up this thread as mambagrl."

i've thought on numerous occasions that you've stunk up this thread with some of your posts. not trying to get in an e-argument here, but a lot of your trite, paltry remarks have stood out to me more so than contributions of substance.

Quote :

"Would it really make the show better if they subtitled 23 AD? Would it have been better if they spelled out widmore's intentions back in season 2 or 3 whenever the tape was first shown? Would MiB came out and told Sayid why he was alive and different? Would it be better if they explained why archeologist jack knew why the clothes had only aged 50 years? yes. yes it would."

i guess you're being sarcastic here, but it's really not necessary.

5/12/2010 10:37:06 PM

I will not agrue that i have contributed tons to this thread, but i just kind of get bugged when i say something like "I like this episode" that i'm automatically trolling because no one else did.

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/12/2010 10:42:55 PM

maybe it's because i've seen you attempt to troll these message boards on numerous occasions as well as accuse people of trolling even if they weren't even intending for it to appear that way (me).

[Edited on May 12, 2010 at 11:19 PM. Reason : .]

5/12/2010 11:12:23 PM

Here is a good interview with Cuse and Lindelof about this past episode and some other things LOST. No spoilers as long as you've seen Across the Sea

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/exclusive-interview-lost-producers-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea



oh....and if you really want to know about the outrigger shooting mystery at least read the last 2 questions.

[Edited on May 13, 2010 at 8:28 AM. Reason : s]

5/13/2010 8:15:25 AM

^ pretty much that they are fucking with us with the outrigger scenes this season and they won't ever answer the question about who was doing the shooting (although they knew who it was all along just like they knew who adam and eve were originally in season one)

[Edited on May 13, 2010 at 9:07 AM. Reason : ]

5/13/2010 8:50:58 AM

haha

fuck these guys

5/13/2010 9:01:02 AM

that had the potential to be a really awesome turn of events and come full circle. and I especially liked your (^Ernie) hypothesis that it would be Juliet who ends up shooting Sawyer. But then i started thinking more, and another version of Sawyer was already on the original outrigger with Juliet and it would have just made shit that much more confusing. still though, it's something i wanted answered

5/13/2010 9:26:14 AM

So basically they got in over their heads and just chose the stuff they wanted to answer and answered it; leaving the rest of the mysteries open ended.

5/13/2010 9:38:13 AM

^ yep

i love how they get so defensive over it... basically a "fuck you, we don't have to answer everything"

5/13/2010 10:09:09 AM

depending on how the show ends these writers could end up being the most despised men in Hollywood

5/13/2010 10:41:14 AM

^^^ are you that dense?

the only cool thing about this show is that there are mysteries.

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

[Edited on May 13, 2010 at 10:58 AM. Reason : ]

5/13/2010 10:57:41 AM

I know!

I just hate reading a good mystery book and having no resolution to said mystery.

I also hate seeing good mystery movies and having no resolution to the mystery at the end.

Shut the fuck up. Its ridiculously clear they spun a web far too complex and now losers like you are trying to defend it by saying the show isn't any good unless they leave all of the questions unanswered.

[Edited on May 13, 2010 at 11:00 AM. Reason : *]

5/13/2010 10:59:39 AM

Yeah, I can totally understand that position. Even as someone who's enjoyed this season for the most part, and even this past week's episode, I can see why people would hate the show and the direction it's taken. For casual viewers especially, it's not what they signed up for.

5/13/2010 11:01:49 AM

There is a difference between mysteries and phenomena. A good example of a mystery that should be resolved is: "Who did Juliet shoot?". An example of a phenomena that can and will not be explained are the rules. The game of senet hinted at that. We do however know the some of the important rules.

1) The island won't let you die until its done with you
2) If you break whatever the fuck the rules are you're banished and not supposed to come back
3) Certain people can't kill each other
4) other shit probably thats not important.

All i'm saying is the show isn't any better if it spells out metaphysical details like this. Yes i would love to know who juliet shot, because in the grand scheme of things that doesn't actually matter, its just a little touch of story telling.

^casual viewers can go back to watching 24.



Also for those saying the mother was not a smoke monster. Jacob did speak to ben before he killed him, so that counter-argument is invalid. Though the sword was probably the same, not sure how/why it has shifted possession.



I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/13/2010 11:04:48 AM

as the article i linked said, the viewers have pretty much diveded themselves into different groups. the ones who watch for the mysteries, the ones who watch for the character driven aspects and then there are the two divisions of faith/science when it comes to the origin and powers of the island. The guys basically said 'hey we can't please everyone. we are writing the show the best way we know how'. but damn if i know i'm going to only be left wanting more! arghhhhh

5/13/2010 11:07:20 AM

At what point did they come out and say that they wouldn't be able to answer all the questions that had accumulated over the past 6 seasons? I'm pretty sure it was before the outrigger shootout, right? If so, why would they continue to pose questions that they KNOW they won't answer?

5/13/2010 11:13:13 AM

I don't need an explanation as to why they cant kill eachother or what exactly the light is.

I need an explanation for the shit they spent seasons building up as important and interesting.

Walt's powers
The Dharma Initiative
Whats with pregnant women
Do we actually know the origin of the 'Others' that they spent multiple season's focus on? (I probably just forgot this explanation)
Many people (non-candidates)saw dead realatives, why?
What happend to Alpert?
Whats the deal with that lighthouse?
Why is Desmond important?

Aside from a slew of those kinds of issues they have just trashed characters that they spent seasons developing and implying to the viewer are important.

French woman ended up useless, so did Alex.
The people in the temple, Dogun, etc.
They have completely destroyed Ben's character. He has no meaning and is a completely secondary character now.
Why was Faraday and that team of people in the show for so long? Mrs. Hawking? Its like they were brought in just to provide extra episodes. They have no actual relevance.
Killing off Jin and Sun with no real impact on the story.

The handling of characters is my biggest problem really. They don't die or leave for any particular reason. They are just killed off when the writers have no use for them. Its a joke.

A lot of this im sure can still be addressed. But you know it won't. This goes far beyond 'revealing the mystery takes the fun out of it'. Thats a bullshit line for LOST. The entire series has been very poorly structured and laid out to the viewer. It has gone off on countless tangents that get the viewer interested but end up being completely trivial and unresolved.

* edit *

Just remembered. It appears now it doesn't matter who the fuck raises Aaron. That kid isnt important anymore.

[Edited on May 13, 2010 at 11:24 AM. Reason : *]

5/13/2010 11:21:16 AM

Quote :

"They are just killed off when the writers have no use for them. Its a joke. "

this is one of my favorite things about lost.

5/13/2010 11:27:35 AM

In the podcast for last week they stated that they killed off jin and sun because in that moment Jin decided that he was going to stay with the woman he loved, and it doubled as stating that no character is safe. Most tv shows you watch and say oh i know _________ won't die because they're a main character and all of their issues have been resolved. Thats not reality thats not what they want lost to be about.

Quote :

"Walt's powers"

Won't be answered because he's too old, but maybe he is special in a similar way to MiB.

Quote :

"The Dharma Initiative"

What is there to know?

Quote :

"Whats with pregnant women"

Will obviously be answered in the next two episodes.

Quote :

"Do we actually know the origin of the 'Others' that they spent multiple season's focus on? (I probably just forgot this explanation)"

Has already been answered. Jacob brings people to the island to watch them and MiB interfered. Finally richard came along and Jacob gave him the job of interfering before MiB did.

Quote :

"Many people (non-candidates)saw dead realatives, why?"

MiB. Basically it goes as follows: there are dead people who are whipsers, then there are people who MiB can manipulate. The dead relatives all died on the island or their corpses were, Yemi in plane or balloon (can't remember) or Christian's corpse. Kate's horse is the only thing i know of that doesn't make sense, but fuck it i don't really care because that shit is so irrelevant right now.

Quote :

"What happend to Alpert?"

when? Last time we saw him he was with miles and ben going to destroy the plane. This is not a mystery.

Quote :

"Whats the deal with that lighthouse?"

Jacob was watching people, to see if they were inherently good or bad. He brought those people to the island. No idea what the degrees represent but we will never know, because no one thing would explain why they are degrees, the numbers for the machine, lotto numbers and all the other various things.

Quote :

"Why is Desmond important?"

We obviously will find this out at some point. The last time we saw desmond he just realized himself why he was important and then was stuck in a well to die.

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/13/2010 11:32:06 AM

This has been an AstralAdvent schooling!

5/13/2010 11:48:38 AM

I agree with Lokken. I'm tired of side stories and not finishing the story lines that were started. The whole shit with dogun, what the hell was the point? They make some crazy shit happen, and then just leave it at that.

Walt is too old? Gimme a break. They fucking do time travel like it's their job in this show.

Quote :

"when? Last time we saw him he was with miles and ben going to destroy the plane. This is not a mystery."

isn't he still stuck down in the well?

[Edited on May 13, 2010 at 11:56 AM. Reason : ]

5/13/2010 11:54:15 AM

Quote :

"Won't be answered because he's too old, but maybe he is special in a similar way to MiB."

So children growing up was something the producers weren't aware of before spending a season on the super power kid tangent?

Quote :

"What is there to know?"

Everything? They only spent well into the third season building up mystery and suspense about the initiative only to then reveal that they don't really matter.

Quote :

"Kate's horse is the only thing i know of that doesn't make sense, but fuck it i don't really care because that shit is so irrelevant right now."

This is exactly what the producers have been doing the past 2 seasons. They have no explanation so they say fuck it its irrelevant.

Quote :

"when? Last time we saw him he was with miles and ben going to destroy the plane. This is not a mystery."

I mean what happened to make him the way he is. We had a great episode about him but we still don't know what Jacob did, do we?

Quote :

"Jacob was watching people, to see if they were inherently good or bad. He brought those people to the island. No idea what the degrees represent but we will never know, because no one thing would explain why they are degrees, the numbers for the machine, lotto numbers and all the other various things."

So basically no idea why a lighthouse beyond the fact that it can attract ships to get people to the island.

The numbers are a whole different beast. They I believe WILL be addressed. But if they aren't its another example of something that was given profound importance, weaved into the backstory of characters and events, and then forgotten. You can't just say 'its a mystery!' to shit like that.

5/13/2010 11:58:52 AM

Quote :

" The handling of characters is my biggest problem really. They don't die or leave for any particular reason. They are just killed off when the writers have no use for them. Its a joke."

Really? The handling of the characters, at least the main ones, has been the show's main strength. Think about Jack specifically. Dude started out as a generally likable guy who was just trying to help people. Then you started to see that he was just masquerading as a leader in order to fulfill his desire to "fix things", without actually have any of the qualities that make a good leader, and generally just fucked things up big time.

You then saw him has a completely broken man after he left the island. He had to live with the guilt of the people who had died due to his actions and realizing that even though he got (very few) people off the island, he hadn't really accomplished anything. Upon his return to the island, he stopped trying to act like a leader, and started to develop the qualities that actually make a good leader. He started observing more, listening more, and only acted after he was presented with a logical plan.

Now, after the sub incident, he's solidified himself as the true leader of the castaways. People trust him now not just because of who is (a doctor, alpha male type), but because of things he's done to actually earn their trust. It's been a remarkably well done transformation and is really one of the show's greatest accomplishments.

5/13/2010 12:00:02 PM

Thats true for Jack.

But there are a good dozen others that were developed as much as Jack that have not received the same treatment.

5/13/2010 12:02:35 PM

Agreed, and I think that's simply due to each character's varying degree of importance to the grand scheme of things. After all,

5/13/2010 12:05:51 PM

Quote :

"I mean what happened to make him the way he is. We had a great episode about him but we still don't know what Jacob did, do we?"

yes. he asked Richard what he really truely wanted. Richard asked for his wife back and Jacob said he couldn't do that. Then Richard asked to die and Jacob said he couldn't do that. Then Richard asked to live forever and Jacob said ok, that I can do. I thought that was pretty well cleared up

5/13/2010 12:52:53 PM

Anyone else think that Eloise Hawking is going to come back in the last episodes and just sit everyone down and explain all the faith based answers scientifically? One can only dream...

5/13/2010 1:56:24 PM

Article above states there are no more answers coming

It's 100% character-driven from here on out

So no

5/13/2010 1:59:28 PM

what a bullshit show. so that's all the answers we're gonna get? i give that a big

5/13/2010 2:16:38 PM

hehehe.. i loled

5/13/2010 2:18:25 PM

^(/)_-)

5/13/2010 2:21:15 PM

Quote :

"what a bullshit show."

Been wondering how long it would take people to come to this realization. Better late than never I suppose.

5/13/2010 2:26:32 PM

Reading through the last couple pages of this thread, I can definitely understand both sides of the argument when it comes to the direction of the show.

Many people are upset because they feel like a lot of loose ends will not be sufficiently or satisfactorily tied up and they've sort of ditched some of the plotlines they started to explore and place importance on in earlier seasons. There is truth in this viewpoint and it makes sense. Many other people simply feel that the vague answers we've gotten are sufficient because they fit in with the mythology of the island and the whole purpose and grander themes of this show. There is truth in this viewpoint, too, and it makes sense as well.

Ultimately, if there really will be no more answers from here on out, the last two episodes are probably going to revolve around Jack and the light/the source. You just have to decide if you give a shit about those two things and if you don't, you're probably not going to enjoy the last two episodes. Again, it makes sense to me, since the light stuff was JUST introduced in the third-to-last episode, but me personally, I take the light as symbolic of what makes the island special. I, personally, am interested in seeing what happens in regards to the light in these last two episodes AND in seeing how Jack's newfound faith holds up in light of Sun's and Jin's deaths.

Like a couple posters have said before, as the show breaks down to science vs faith, so does the fan base. You have people who want scientific explanations for the weird happenings on the island, and they will be understandably upset when they don't get them, and you have people who don't really need exact explanations, but just the idea or importance of things that seem irrational. Those people are more likely to be OK with vague explanations for things like Richard's immortality or the light or even the Dharma Initiative. One group is not right, but one group will definitely end up more satisfied with the direction of the show--it's becoming clear that that group will be the "faith" group.

5/13/2010 3:12:44 PM

Quote :

"the light stuff was JUST introduced in the third-to-last episode, "

Thats the thing here. This is just plain wrong. Its basically a physical motif for what the show has been about since the first time we heard about lists and people who were good.

I'm AstralAdvent and I approved this message.

5/13/2010 4:09:24 PM

I addressed that later in my post. Learn to read. I said it was symbolic of themes that have been part of Lost for a long time.

5/13/2010 4:33:19 PM

first half of it was boring so i stopped reading after i read that.

I'm not too proud to admit that

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/13/2010 4:34:04 PM

It was in the very same sentence as the one you quoted.

5/13/2010 4:53:53 PM

I don't need a scientific explanation, just AN explanation.

Quote :

"yes. he asked Richard what he really truely wanted. Richard asked for his wife back and Jacob said he couldn't do that. Then Richard asked to die and Jacob said he couldn't do that. Then Richard asked to live forever and Jacob said ok, that I can do. I thought that was pretty well cleared up"

As an example, this ISN'T an explanation. It'd probably be nice if we knew what made Jacob special enough so that he can grant immortality at a whim. Last night's shit episode should have revealed that, but it didn't.

5/13/2010 4:58:18 PM

If I recall correctly, Jacob gave Richard the same wine that Jacob's "mother" gave him when she passed her duties onto him. The wine somehow grants immortality (well, not technically, since Richard and Jacob CAN be killed, but they don't age). How is that NOT an explanation?

EDIT: Just watched the YouTube clip of that scene...Jacob gives Richard something to drink, but I can't tell if it's wine or not.

[Edited on May 13, 2010 at 5:22 PM. Reason : .]

5/13/2010 5:17:54 PM

tis the blood of christ

5/13/2010 5:24:47 PM

haha. i think it probably has something to do with the source.

5/13/2010 5:29:27 PM

i have figured it out.

Source as in source code this shit is the fucking matrix

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/13/2010 5:36:24 PM