Quote :

"Shelby's attorney, Scott Wood, claims she fired because Crutcher reached into the vehicle. "

9/20/2016 4:36:14 PM

What does being on PCP and resisting arrest have to do with this shooting?! It's because he's black!

9/20/2016 4:37:44 PM

You keep saying resisting arrest, when as far as we know he wasn't resisting. At most he was disobeying orders...and walking away with his hands raised. Is that grounds for execution nowadays?

Do you honestly believe, in the same situation, that a white man would have been shot to death?

Completely disregarding race, you have to at least agree that police in this country need much better vetting and training.

[Edited on September 20, 2016 at 5:14 PM. Reason : like logic matters]

9/20/2016 4:54:13 PM

i don't understand why we go through this everytime. its obviously that the status quo is that police can kill at their own discretion and not face retribution. instead of reacting to every case, people need to move into doing something about it and brining political change.

theres no more denying what is happening. having the same debate over and over each time isn't getting anywehre.

9/20/2016 4:58:17 PM

I think the fact that a bomb making terrorist shot a cop in the torso, then continued firing at officers, and was still taken away alive in an ambulance yesterday helps bolster the case of the #blm activists that something is really wrong.

9/20/2016 5:13:49 PM

but this has happened thousands of times. why is it this one case that suddenly makes you think something is wrong?

9/20/2016 5:23:10 PM

Maybe we should make "how to comply with police orders" mandatory training for kids at public schools? Or for part of drivers education, show kids how to act when getting pulled over.

9/20/2016 6:32:43 PM

this isn't officially a police state though. why would you except a "free" society to adjust to illegal acts being committed against them.

you probably think schools should teach girls how to avoid being raped too.

[Edited on September 20, 2016 at 6:36 PM. Reason : k]

9/20/2016 6:36:07 PM

Quote :

"Exiled: Completely disregarding race, you have to at least agree that police in this country need much better vetting and training."

In my opinion, their behavior demonstrates that they are already "trained" too much, like they've literally had common sense trained out of them and been bombarded with too much information. And, to be clear, more accountability measures will likely just equal more bullshit that changes nothing.

9/20/2016 6:59:51 PM

well I'll be damned. Earl is making some valid points on this page.

9/20/2016 7:30:36 PM

Maybe we should decriminalize sherm

9/20/2016 7:31:16 PM

oh, on the contrary. people who smoke sherm deserve to die. nasty stuff

9/20/2016 7:36:39 PM

private policing is accountable policing

9/20/2016 7:47:18 PM

Here are some winning LEOs.
http://countercurrentnews.com/2016/09/30-cops-arrested-weekend-rape-child-molestation-child-pornography-domestic-violence/

9/20/2016 7:47:22 PM

Actually, having a basic understanding of how to react to police would be a good thing for anyone and everyone to know.

I'm a huge fan of actively or passively asserting your constitutional rights by not saying a damn thing, asking if you're being detained or if you are free to leave, not allowing a warrantless search, etc. but that isn't always an option.

When you're pulled over or stopped you don't necessarily know why and you're a terrible judge of whether it's justified. You may be doing absolutely nothing wrong and yet they may have just had a report go out on radio of someone matching your description having just committed an armed robbery. When they roll up on you your reaction should not be indignant outrage.

If you're treated like shit by an asshole cop the best time to rectify the situation is not while he's screaming at you to keep your hands on the wheel or to lay on your stomach. Comply, and then get a lawyer if you've been wronged. You aren't arguing or shoving your way out of any situation with a cop.

What people fail to realize is that each and every encounter with a cop is potentially a deadly situation because there is, at minimum, one person involved with a gun. If you assume that every cop is just an irrational, raging dickhead with a gun and act accordingly you're much more likely to end up coming out of it unscathed.

Now, all this said, fuck the cops. Most of them shouldn't be police, a lot of them have the exact wrong psychological makeup to do the job. There's a lot of things we could do to help fix things, like eliminate immunity from personal liability for gross negligence, we could stop supporting public sector unions and the ridiculous concessions to police unions. Most of the training police get is woefully lacking in things like conflict deescalation, self defense, and weapons competency. Police who are self assured in their ability to defend themselves are less likely to be ready to draw down.

So much of our policing philosophy is flawed. We don't need police out there operating as revenue generators. We have an oddly adversarial system where the cops are often out to get you because there are perverse incentives like receiving a % of fines and being able to keep the proceeds of asset forfeitures. Militarization and the constant "war on cops" narrative just adds to the divisiveness.

There are so many problems it's hard to get into them all, but on your end as an everyday person going about your life the only thing you can do in the moment of a stop is to react in the way that is most likely to keep the situation from escalating.

9/20/2016 7:48:24 PM

Not too many details yet, but it looks like the police killed a disabled guy in Charlotte waiting in his car to pick someone up from school. They were in the area looking for someone else.

http://buff.ly/2cPPQP8

[Edited on September 20, 2016 at 8:07 PM. Reason : H]

9/20/2016 8:06:46 PM

^facebook live video by his daughter:

https://www.facebook.com/keirramsprettybabe.scott/videos/1099055070172542/

9/20/2016 8:24:55 PM

Police say he had a gun. Family and witnesses sat he didn't. White people will probably believe the cops. Minorities probably won't. And that's where we apparently are as a country.

9/20/2016 8:37:57 PM

Him having a gun does not give them the right to shoot him anyway. In NC any fool that is not a convicted felon can have a gun on them that is not concealed. (no permit required) If he had it concealed, did not have a permit, and is not a felon the first offense of that is a misdemeanor anyway....

The double standard on that seems to be white person with a gun = practicing second amendment right, black person with a gun = criminal and thread to the police.

9/20/2016 8:49:09 PM

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the police, but the few times I've called them, it's been about drunk, white women on the road in broad daylight.

I did not call the police on the black guy I saw put down his groceries and adjust a firearm in his waistband--it made me uneasy, but it still didn't strike me as a crime.

9/20/2016 9:04:31 PM

Quote :

"the few times I've called them, it's been about drunk, white women on the road in broad daylight."

ah, so that solves this mystery then:

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=647429

[Edited on September 20, 2016 at 9:17 PM. Reason : .]

9/20/2016 9:16:49 PM

This one was busted planting a gun

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/new-videos-provide-fresh-look-at-st-louis-police-killing/article_e0530fba-5db7-500e-9b31-3dd4512fe5bc.html

9/20/2016 9:20:23 PM

Quote :

"When you're pulled over or stopped you don't necessarily know why and you're a terrible judge of whether it's justified. You may be doing absolutely nothing wrong and yet they may have just had a report go out on radio of someone matching your description having just committed an armed robbery. When they roll up on you your reaction should not be indignant outrage. If you're treated like shit by an asshole cop the best time to rectify the situation is not while he's screaming at you to keep your hands on the wheel or to lay on your stomach. Comply, and then get a lawyer if you've been wronged. You aren't arguing or shoving your way out of any situation with a cop. What people fail to realize is that each and every encounter with a cop is potentially a deadly situation because there is, at minimum, one person involved with a gun. If you assume that every cop is just an irrational, raging dickhead with a gun and act accordingly you're much more likely to end up coming out of it unscathed."

I feel like this completely true. But I also feel like it shouldn't be the case. The rest of your post kinda made that point, but still. It needs to be pointed out that we shouldn't have to cower when the police come around and stroke their egos.

9/20/2016 9:28:28 PM

I can honestly see why some people feel that when the police show up, the absolute best thing to do is to get the fuck out of that area as fast as they can.

9/20/2016 9:32:47 PM

I feel like the helicopter footage sums up the situation in America quite succinctly. They know nothing about this guy whatsoever, other than that he is black and his car is stuck in the middle of the road, and their immediate response is "he looks like a bad dude."

9/20/2016 9:35:40 PM

^^^^^Really, just once on a peeping tom/prowler, but I didn't make the call...just gave the report.

And once on a seemingly drunk woman behind me with her kids in the car, swerving all over and no seat belts...still think it coulda been a fun-loving babysitter just messing around for the kids though.

Since then, I've been convinced to not report anything to the police. I wouldn't mind making friends with one in case I ever need them.

^^Exactly...people are afraid for their lives.

9/20/2016 9:36:57 PM

Quote :

"They know nothing about this guy whatsoever, other than that he is black and his car is stuck in the middle of the road, and their immediate response is "he looks like a bad dude.""

I mean, I certainly didn't think that. But I'm not a racist fucking retard that's afraid of every black person I see.

9/20/2016 9:41:16 PM

http://www.wbur.org/news/2016/09/20/mass-high-court-black-men-may-have-legitimate-reason-to-flee-police

9/20/2016 9:42:50 PM

ain't much good that can come out of talking to LEOs

9/20/2016 9:42:55 PM

Quote :

"ain't much good that can come out of talking to LEOs"

boy did I learn this the hard way!

9/20/2016 9:43:52 PM

Quote :

"I can honestly see why some people feel that when the police show up, the absolute best thing to do is to get the fuck out of that area as fast as they can. "

I can't see how this makes sense. Sure, if you stay and comply, there is an absolutely miniscule chance of the cop getting excited over nothing and shooting you. On the other hand, if you run and try to evade them, i would wager that the chances of guns coming out goes up dramatically. I really can't see any situation where running makes anything better, unless of course you have done something wrong and think you can avoid jail time by running. The truth is it just adds more charges when you do get caught.

9/20/2016 9:52:08 PM

there's a difference between running from the police when they are after you specifically and just vacating an area when they roll up

for example, if i'm in a store and the police show up for something that i am not involved in, i'm gonna set my shit down and just leave out the nearest exit.

[Edited on September 20, 2016 at 9:55 PM. Reason : afds]

9/20/2016 9:54:33 PM

Just because the police are present in an area does not mean that you are under arrest. You are free to leave if you are not being detained.

9/20/2016 9:59:02 PM

Is that a cop three blocks away? Well, better go ahead and lay face down with my hands behind my head...

9/20/2016 10:11:53 PM

the secret to dealing with cops is to gut punch them, then pull their shirt over their heads as you flee. this is a sign of respect at their toughness and they will let you go with a hearty chuckle and wry shake of their head

9/20/2016 10:14:41 PM

aaronburro I absolutely wish it was the case that I or anyone could assume that a cop will act rationally and calmly during an interaction, but until such a time as that is what I can reasonably expect that's how I'll approach my police interactions. It's purely a utilitarian play on my part. Philisophically I want comprehensive change, which is why I've donated to groups like institute for justice and support the libertarian party and reason magazine which have been all over the police state for decades now.

We need almost a ground up rebuild of policing in this country. It needs to be a smaller force tasked with much less than they currently are and they need to have specialized officer for dealing with certain situations.

I support a portion of what BLM is working towards, but in some ways I think they're doing a disservice by over emphasizing the racist aspect. I don't think most cops are racists, I think they're mostly just assholes. As a black guy when a cop treats you like shit you probably think, "great a other racist cop" when actually he probably treats everyone like shit. As studies and meta analysis of data is being done were seeing that actually cops police more where there is more violent crime, they are more likely to use force with blacks than whites, but are not more likely to use lethal force when you actually start drilling down.

9/20/2016 10:47:37 PM

Black folks just need to bust out their Carlton voices and things should be smooth sailing

[Edited on September 20, 2016 at 11:00 PM. Reason : or maybe their Bill Lester voices. I assume Bill Lester has a Brad Daugherty accent.]

9/20/2016 11:00:01 PM

go the British route and don't give beat cops guns

9/20/2016 11:03:42 PM

I make unwanted turns when a cop is behind me while I'm driving.

9/20/2016 11:11:47 PM

I've definitely done that before. Cop behind me... guess I'll go see what's in that shopping center over there.

9/21/2016 12:05:44 AM

Quote :

"North Carolina’s legislature recently passed a law, which was signed by Governor Pat McCrory, to restrict public access to police shooting videos."

9/21/2016 1:03:42 AM

I wonder why

9/21/2016 1:25:46 AM

^^^^I think everybody does that.

There's lots of talk about decriminalizing most drugs. But let me throw something else out. What if we decriminalize speed? Or all minor traffic violations?

I wonder how many (if any) police entanglements that have escalated into something awful could have been prevented if not pulled over for something stupid related to traffic laws?

Like if the police were only called to the scene for accidents, or only allowed to pull someone over if the person/vehicle matches a description of something worse.

I'd be all for no more minor traffic violations. And besides, cameras are such now that if we truly believe we need to enforce speed and traffic laws, we could let automation fine people, and remove the human element, which is sometimes the most dangerous part.

9/21/2016 8:14:53 AM

Being able to stop motorists for minor traffic violations, and then finding a reason to escalate that rather benign violation into an arrestable offence is too lucrative and powerful tool for the police to willingly let it go.

9/21/2016 8:32:04 AM

But the kind of reform that kurtis is calling for can't, and will never come from within the law enforcement machine. It will have to come from outside legislation.

Then you'll have to deal with huge unions from NYC, Chicago, L.A., etc. We're entrenched, and it seems like an impossibility to get real reform.

9/21/2016 8:39:50 AM

Just curious, not commenting on the plan, but what is considered a minor offense and how would you punish those guilty if you can't pull them over? Things like broken taillights, expired registration, driving without a seat belt, speeding, not signaling, running a stop light/sign, etc...I get that running a light or passing a stopped school bus would probably be non-minor, but what about the other things? If there is no risk of getting pulled over for expired registration, why should I bother to get my car inspected and pay taxes on my vehicle?

9/21/2016 8:41:49 AM

Ok, so letting your registration or insurance expire, I wouldn't consider that minor - you would need a human involved. But if cameras are good enough now to grab license plates and send a bill to your house for tolls, then you can bet they are good enough to monitor for broken taillights, etc.

Too many notifications to your house without payment? Then you lose your insurance, then the men in blue come looking.

I don't know, it's pretty far-fetched, but just throwing that out there.

9/21/2016 8:45:00 AM

ehe

If a camera can catch me speeding, it can also catch me driving without a current registration and send a fine to my house in the mail.

9/21/2016 8:49:14 AM

^ Right, but how long can you miss payments for before the cops are allowed to come looking or pull you over?

It seems like you'd generate more uninsured motorists that way if you're depending on a system to mail people bills and people to mail payment back and if a cop is able to run plates to figure out if the driver is insured or not, it seems like you'd be right back at square one.

I like the idea of trying to reduce minor traffic stops in general, but I simply don't see it ever being that effective. I am a much greater supporter of body cams + investigations/oversight done by a third party

[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 8:52 AM. Reason : a]

9/21/2016 8:51:21 AM

Also, if we were able to take traffic patrol off the list of responsibilities, we could reduce the police forces. With the money we could save, we could put that into better automation.

It sure sounds like big brother, I know, but at the very least, we could find speeders without having a human intervene.

Things we probably could do today without the people element:

- running red lights
- speeding
- check tags for expired registration/lack of insurance/expired inspection

Just those three would cut down a large portion of traffic stops. I got a little side-tracked though. I started out by decrimanilizing the things above, and then went to automated ticketing. I'm still ok with decriminalizing speeding.

I say all this, but in 10 years it might not make a difference, because rather than the policing be automated, the driving may well be automated.

[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 8:58 AM. Reason : asdf]

9/21/2016 8:57:04 AM