I hate to bump this thread, but I read an article today (http://www.wralsportsfan.com/ncsu/story/3823453/) with some Lowe quotes that really pissed me off. Hell, you don't even have to read the article, just the headline. What the fuck has he been doing for two years as the HEAD COACH?

10/27/2008 6:31:49 PM

ehh remember he is still learning as a college coach as well.

He thought some of the seniors (i.e. grant) would step up and be the leader but that obviously didnt happen.

Give him time. Depsite our shitty ass season we still have a top 5 class coming in (with the potential to be top 2)

10/27/2008 6:37:55 PM

of course I give him the benefit of the doubt being the beginning of his 3rd year and he's recruiting his ass off, but a lot of the quotes I've been reading in the news from players/Lowe have caused me to be like WTF. I'll just be glad when all the Herb players are purged from this team and we can start evaluating him fairly based on his players/system.

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 6:44 PM. Reason : fard]

10/27/2008 6:43:56 PM

Quote :

"“That’s very unfair to J.J.,” Lowe said. “I’ve never seen a team that was better when its best player left.”"

So he's essentially stating State will be equal to or worse than last year's team.

10/27/2008 6:50:59 PM

Well his first year he had Atsur who was a great leader and had a ton of experience. His second year no one really stepped up consistently and lead (while I liked Gavin and he did step up a few times, he wasn't always there to step up, and Ben and Brandon were absent during a good many games). We really need the 05's (Ben, Brandon, and Courtney aka the BBC) to step up this year and leave a lasting legacy.

Oh how I can't wait to see if these guys learned from last year or if they will continue to not play hard. I think an experience like last year would be an eye opener and make them hungry.

I can't wait to see them playing in the palatial RBC Center again.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/115/302028260_643a1b681d.jpg


On a side note I found this cool pic of Tommy Burleson from State playing Maryland in the Greensboro Coliseum during the 1974 ACC Final. This was a picture that Sports Illustrated took. I also included a link to a 6 picture gallery from the event.
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/photo/College_Athletics/more/X18477/1/index.htm

10/27/2008 7:12:26 PM

haha look at that slack ass help defense by McMillen

10/27/2008 7:14:09 PM

Awesome:

10/27/2008 7:16:41 PM

Quote :

"“That’s very unfair to J.J.,” Lowe said. “I’ve never seen a team that was better when its best player left.”"

See Ewing Theory.

10/27/2008 9:04:05 PM

I still can't believe Lowe's comments about Hickson and the rest of last years team. I can understand why the returning players were upset. Lowe's first year they were picked near the bottom of the conference and almost won the ACC tourney. Then Lowe brings in the "All-Star" freshmen and completely changes an offense that was working. The "feed it to hickson" mentality did not work, but was consistently pushed on the players. I would be the teams "best player" too if the other 4 guys tried to get me the ball every time we came down the court.

10/27/2008 10:11:08 PM

Well they often didn't work with Hickson. They wouldn't move around or cut, they'd just stand around and watch him. You could say he didn't pass it back out, but he eventually did start doing so halfway through the year. Perhaps he would have passed it to them more if they had got themselves open more. Dude was leading the ACC in FG% as a freshman. Why wouldn't you get him the ball often? He was clearly the best player on the team and some of the other players didn't want to accept their roles. They would rather get the ball and try and go to work on their own showing off all their fancy moves rather than move without the ball and get a smart, quick open shot.

10/27/2008 10:18:56 PM

Quote :

"Then Lowe brings in the "All-Star" freshmen and completely changes an offense that was working. The "feed it to hickson" mentality did not work, but was consistently pushed on the players."

uhhhhhh, you're forgetting this little thing called atsur, and our lack of it last year.

Quote :

"Dude was leading the ACC in FG% as a freshman. Why wouldn't you get him the ball often? He was clearly the best player on the team and some of the other players didn't want to accept their roles"

Exactly. If he's the best guy you've got, you get him the ball. its just that simple.

if the other guys couldn't put on their big boy britches and deal with it the so be it...it wasn't JJs fault. if one dude was banging another dude's gf, then that too is not JJs fault.

10/27/2008 10:23:28 PM

Quote :

" I hate to bump this thread, but I read an article today (http://www.wralsportsfan.com/ncsu/story/3823453/) with some Lowe quotes that really pissed me off. Hell, you don't even have to read the article, just the headline. What the fuck has he been doing for two years as the HEAD COACH?"

I understand why the title pissed you off. Last year's chemistry problems, to one extent or another, reflect back on the coach. The players may be in college, but they're still just kids. A good coach has to find a way to make the team work together as one unit, and that simply didn't happen last year.

That said, I don't find the article all the offensive for one very big reason: You can't manufacture leadership where there is none.

You can bring in talented players. You can coach talented players so they reach their potential. But last year's team needed a leader, and it NEEDED to be Gavin Grant. Fells and Horner are role players. All our point guards were bad/inexperienced. McCauley was injured, had some discipline issues early in the year, and chronically underachieved all season. Costner looked bad, played worse, and easily was the biggest disappointment on the team. Hickson and Smith were newcomers, and everyone else was either terrible or injured.

Grant however was more interested in "being the man" as opposed to stepping up and keeping the team in line. There was no Anthony Grundy, Julius Hodge, or Engin Atsur to (A) hold teammates accountable for their play, (B) make sure everyone was on the same page, and (C) would take the role of "floor general" on the court, doing things like directing traffic, setting the tempo, and basically being a coach on the floor.

As a result, I don't find it unreasonable that Coach Lowe has stated outwardly that he will assume a leadership role b/c, as I've just pointed out, no one stepped up last season to do it themselves. Honestly I don't think he has any other choice.

Sidney Lowe interview
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/ncsu/video/3822498/

Solid interview, as usual saying all the right things.

Ben McCauley interview
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/ncsu/video/3822498/

Either he's just not a camera guy or Ben's "less than excited" about the Pack's chances this year. Also, love the "off the wall" comment in regards to saying outlandish things on media day. Can't imagine what he's referencing there

10/27/2008 10:25:05 PM

Quote :

"NEED MOR FLOOR GENERAL"

10/27/2008 10:39:40 PM

Alright Lowe, I'm managed to effectively purge most of last year from my memory banks. I vaguely remember our team blowing ass and you being an ineffective head coach with one of the most talented rosters we've had in years.

I'm willing to put all that behind me and give you my full support once again, like after the 2006 season. Maybe it's naivety, misguided hope, or just plain stupidity, but I think you're capable of being a great head coach. Don't let me down you fat mother fucker.

10/28/2008 10:28:52 AM

Erios completely won this thread.

10/28/2008 10:46:15 AM

I am taking a new approach to Wolfpack Basketball and will take the same approach to football next year and that approach will be instead of hoping for a great season, I fully expect a season full of fail. So when we pull out that last minute win against a heavy opponent (relatively) like NCCU or maybe Shaw, I can be happy instead of wondering why we could only beat them by a lucky free throw.

10/28/2008 11:46:24 AM

^Wait, that's a new approach?

I've been doing that for years. Expect a loss so that you won't be disappointed and then if you win

10/28/2008 12:26:42 PM

I just bet the ML on whoever is playing State, that way it's hard to be sad

10/28/2008 12:29:15 PM

I expect us to finish 10th in the conference, in front of Virginia and Boston College. Probably be a game or two under .500 and not make any postseason. I think that is unbiased and likely. Coach Lowe could get off my hot seat (like it matters what I think, anyway...) with a good recruiting haul regardless of where we finish. If we flame out on Favors/Wall and my season prediction comes true, it'll be pretty darn hot for him come March... I'm pretty confident John Wall will be running with the Pack at this point though.

10/28/2008 12:39:01 PM

Yeah sadly his job status could be hinging on getting one or both of them....

10/28/2008 12:50:08 PM

There is nothing sad about it. He is highly paid to do a job. His job wasn't to bring a program in the dumps back to any sort of relevance. His job is to bring the program to the next level.

Say what you want about the last coach, but he didn't leave the program in shambles. Yes, he didn't leave UNC like talent/depth when he left, but he obviously left enough to compete in the ACC given our Tournament run and we squandered any bit of momentum we had from that last year. Lowe wasn't coming from the end of the V era/Les Robinson era... This will be his third year as coach and if we aren't going to show much ON COURT momentum how else can we judge him but recruiting?

I want nothing more than for him to succeed. There would be nothing sweeter than an alum leading us back to national prominence. But if things don't turn and we actually lock up these recruits, how can we justify not at least questioning whether he can get the job done...

10/28/2008 1:15:41 PM

herb left talent, but it was specialized talent that fit his offense

i dont think you can hold sidney responsible for having to work under those constraints


not to mention the lack of PGs here.

10/28/2008 1:51:50 PM

Herb while seeminlgy leaving us as a program that had been to 5 straight NCAA Tournaments didn't really leave the program in a great state. Now part of that is the fact that once he left we lost some recruits (Dan Werner, Larrry Davis, and Chris Wright). Now if Herb had stayed perhaps Brackman and Simmons would have stayed on, but they didn't. Remember we only had like 7 scholarship players in Lowe's first year (Atsur, Grant, Fells, McCauley, Costner, Ferguson, and Horner), and yet the man still was able to beat a UNC team ranked #3 in the nation, as well as get to the ACC Championship game. Also we could have made it to the NCAA Tournament had Atsur not been hurt for a good portion of the schedule. Why? Because he actually had one a leader on the team, and two it happened to also be a very capable point guard in Atsur. A team is only as good as their big men and point guards. Last year we had the big men, but didn't have the point guard to make the team competitive. Throw in pouting players and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Lowe will be fine in the upcoming years. He already has a great, Top 10 class coming in. If he gets Wall and/or Favors we'll be really set.

10/28/2008 1:58:27 PM

next year will be our year!!

10/28/2008 2:01:18 PM

Quote :

"have the point guard to make the team competitive"

not to sound overly simplistic, but this is everymuch the silver bullet (or the ultimate liability if not there) that a QB is, if not moreso - especially in a competitive league like the ACC

10/28/2008 2:06:49 PM

Quote :

"herb left talent, but it was specialized talent that fit his offense"

Honestly, I don't buy that. These players were Top 100 recruits who were recruited to many high elite schools with varying offenses. A good coach molds his players around his teams style. Fells and McCauley are hardly traditional Herb-offense players. Fells athleticism is off the charts and McCauley is not an outside shooter by any stretch.

Look at the level and some of the schools recruiting the players from last years team:

Brandon Costner (5* PF -- #20 in class): Offers from Indiana, Kansas and UCLA among others
Courtney Fells (4* SG -- #30 in class): Offers from Alabama and LSU among others
Ben McCauley (4* PF -- #96 in class): Offers from Pitt, Ohio State and Cincy among others
JJ Hickson (5* C -- #13 in class): Had offers from damn near everyone

Some of the role players included 3* Dennis Horner, 4* Tracy Smith, etc, etc. We were unfortunate to lose Wright, Davis and Werner for sure and I lay that partly on Lee Fowler...

[Edited on October 28, 2008 at 2:08 PM. Reason : x]

10/28/2008 2:07:28 PM

^no pg = crap

10/28/2008 2:08:48 PM

Quote :

"There is nothing sad about it. He is highly paid to do a job. His job wasn't to bring a program in the dumps back to any sort of relevance. His job is to bring the program to the next level."

Agreed.

Quote :

"Say what you want about the last coach, but he didn't leave the program in shambles. Yes, he didn't leave UNC like talent/depth when he left, but he obviously left enough to compete in the ACC given our Tournament run and we squandered any bit of momentum we had from that last year. Lowe wasn't coming from the end of the V era/Les Robinson era... This will be his third year as coach and if we aren't going to show much ON COURT momentum how else can we judge him but recruiting?"

No, the program definitely was not in shambles. Yes, State did have talent as evidenced by the ACC tournament run. It's true that the Pack squandered the momentum built up from that same tournament run. Last season sucked for Pack fans and it was at times unbearable to watch.

The reasons for last season's epic collapse however can be found in my previous post. Does Lowe deserve some of the blame? Absolutely. Was it all his fault. Absolutely NOT. Again, your points are valid, but it doesn't justify hating on Lowe without asking WHY it happened in the 1st place.

Yes State had some talent. But then again, Sidney Lowe wasn't brought in to run Herb Sendek's offense. He came in saying on record that he wanted to run the floor. One problem - State's talent was designed around a Princeton-style offense, not an NBA run-the-floor offense. That's like bringing beer to a wine tasting party. I don't care how good the beer is - it's not what you need. Tom O'Brien may come in saying he wants to run a zone defense, but that doesn't change the fact that his players were recruited to play man-to-man. Some talent will make the transition, but some won't.

Simply put, you can't honestly expect to get the most out of existing talent when that talent was recruited around a fundamentally different playing style.

Secondly, Coach Lowe had little influence on his 2006 class. Throw that out. In his 2007 class, he got Hickson - a 1st round pick in the NBA Draft, and Tracy Smith, who looks like a solid PF. In 2008 - a modest class. A little underachieving? Yes.

Let's however look at the 2009 class, which as of last August was ranked #6 in the country by ESPN.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/columns/story?columnist=gibbons_bob&id=3555426

That also ignores the possibility of adding Wall or Favors. I understand being pissed that UNC's class is ridiculously good, but hey... everybody's class looks like crap compared the Tarholes.

Quote :

"I want nothing more than for him to succeed. There would be nothing sweeter than an alum leading us back to national prominence. But if things don't turn and we actually lock up these recruits, how can we justify not at least questioning whether he can get the job done..."

We can absolutely justify "questioning whether he can get the job done" once Wall and Favors make their respective committments. And even if they go elsewhere, State's 2009 class is still very solid. So I think it's more than fair to give Lowe until 2009 to see if he can make use of the talent he's bringing in.

Quote :

"Erios completely won this thread."

[Edited on October 28, 2008 at 2:12 PM. Reason : ]

10/28/2008 2:10:34 PM

Quote :

"The reasons for last season's epic collapse however can be found in my previous post. Does Lowe deserve some of the blame? Absolutely. Was it all his fault. Absolutely NOT. Again, your points are valid, but it doesn't justify hating on Lowe without asking WHY it happened in the 1st place."

If I was really hating on Lowe, I would not be as tame in my criticisms as I was. Expecting a 10th place finish in his third year and saying it is critical for him to lock up one of the highly sought after recruits we have interested is hardly a damning opinion. If we had done what we did in the ACC last year that is fine, but we lost games that with our talent level, we had NO business losing.

Quote :

"Yes State had some talent. But then again, Sidney Lowe wasn't brought in to run Herb Sendek's offense. He came in saying on record that he wanted to run the floor. One problem - State's talent was designed around a Princeton-style offense, not an NBA run-the-floor offense."

Again, looking at the caliber talent/athletes we had and where they were recruited to, I really don't but this. If some of these guys were offered to play in Kansas' offense or UCLA's system I don't see how they aren't able to translate that in to Coach Lowe's system. As I said, Fells, McCauley and Hickson are not Herb style players. McCauley I can see, but he isn't an outside shooter... he is just a good passer from the top. The lack of a high elite PG is a much larger cause of the teams problems than the mythical "these guys were only good in a Princeton-style offense" that likes to get thrown around.

Quote :

"Secondly, Coach Lowe had little influence on his 2006 class. Throw that out. In his 2007 class, he got Hickson - a 1st round pick in the NBA Draft, and Tracy Smith, who looks like a solid PF. In 2008 - a modest class. A little underachieving? Yes."

I personally think he made a mistake accepting the Marques Johnson transfer and recruiting Javi Gonzalez over Chris Warren. This isn't hindsight. I said that at the time when Warren desperately wanted to be offered by State and wasn't. He can fix that by getting Wall...

[Edited on October 28, 2008 at 2:16 PM. Reason : x]

10/28/2008 2:15:29 PM

Wow, you boys are bringing the fire in this thread.

10/28/2008 2:27:00 PM

i'm excited to see javi and farnold on the floor together. i'm not getting---well... i'm trying not to get my hopes up-- but it's good to see them trying something new.

10/28/2008 2:44:34 PM

Quote :

"i'm excited to see javi and farnold on the floor together."

were you excited when they both hobbled off? hopefully our guys can get healthy before conference play starts.

10/28/2008 3:29:28 PM

Quote :

"i'm excited to see javi and farnold on the floor together. i'm not getting---well... i'm trying not to get my hopes up-- but it's good to see them trying something new."

I'm not. I think our best starting 5 is:

C McCauley
PF Smith
SF Costner
SG Fells
PG Farnold/Javi

Whoever is playing 2, be it Farnold/Javi/Ferguson will be either undersized and/or not athletic enough to guard the 2's in this league...

10/28/2008 3:44:06 PM

thats a pretty slow team.

they want costner at the 4 to create the mismatch. thats what he played as a RS Fr.

with fells, + PG + SG we can handle the ball a lot better, get up and down the court and hopefully get some penetration. not doing those things last year killed us.

10/28/2008 3:51:29 PM

Quote :

"I personally think he made a mistake accepting the Marques Johnson transfer and recruiting Javi Gonzalez over Chris Warren"

I agree, Warren turned out to be spectacular as a freshman and we may have lived up to the hype last year if we had offered him instead of taking Javi and Marques. Not saying Javi won't ever be a good PG but he obviously needs alot more time to develop than Chris Warren did, and last year we needed a starting PG not a project.

10/28/2008 4:40:16 PM

Quote :

"If I was really hating on Lowe, I would not be as tame in my criticisms as I was. Expecting a 10th place finish in his third year and saying it is critical for him to lock up one of the highly sought after recruits we have interested is hardly a damning opinion."

I agree that in this regard you're being very fair to Lowe. The only difference between you and me here is that I think you can still call Lowe's recruiting class successful in 2009 even without Wall or Favors, especially when you consider how badly the 07-08 campaign went last year. That along with getting Hickson tells me that Lowe and his staff can in fact pull in big time recruits, which is an absolute must in the ACC.

Quote :

" If we had done what we did in the ACC last year that is fine, but we lost games that with our talent level, we had NO business losing."

This is where our paths diverge. Again, State did have talent, but it was also sorely lacking in several "intangibles," most of which brassmonkey already identified:

- Brackmon and Simmons, whom were instrumental in State's success in Herb's final year, BOTH did not return for their senior seasons
- State lost 3 key recruits after Herb's departure, which really hurt our depth the past two years (especially at PG)
- State lost their primary PG and source of leadership in Atsur, and no one stepped up to fill the void

Quote :

"Fells, McCauley and Hickson are not Herb style players. McCauley I can see, but he isn't an outside shooter... he is just a good passer from the top. The lack of a high elite PG is a much larger cause of the teams problems than the mythical "these guys were only good in a Princeton-style offense" that likes to get thrown around."

Good points on the big men and the lack of a PG. Let's drop the blanket "these guys were only good in a Princeton-style offense" and get more specific.

Forward/Center - The big men have certainly not been much of an issue for the Pack under Sidney Lowe. Costner and McCauley however are not guys you'll see running the length of the floor on a fast break. The only place Costner ran to in the past 2 seasons is the drive-thru at McDonalds. McCauley is athletic, but he's definitely not fast enough to run in an up-tempo offense. Grant and Fells were the only guys that could run in this group, which they did from time to time, but it was usually only on a solo break.

In addition, as good as these players were/are, none had the talent to create their own shot. Every single one of these guys required a setup man. The sharp decline in Costner and McCauley's numbers didn't happen by accident. It happened because State didn't have a PG that knew how to get them the ball. That is the "talent" that Lowe needed and didn't have.

On the other hand, Lowe brought in Smith and Hickson in 2007. Hickson easily had the talent to create his own shot, and by the end of the year Smith was earning playing time over Costner and McCauley despite being a freshman.

Guards: Lowe started from scratch in this department. Herb's offense never revolved around a "playmaker" PG, and the guards Herb recruited for the 06-07 season went elsewhere. He had a senior PG and no one else that was even serviceable, much less capable of being a playmaker. So Lowe has lived and died with Atsur (in 1st year) and his recruits. Here's my assessment:

2006-07: Lowe was left with no PGs to run his system. He got by with Atsur. Nothing much he could do.

Grade: N/A

2007-08: Lowe makes getting a PG a priority after seeing how things went with GRANT running the point. He recruits three guards to play the role - Johnson, Gonzalez, and Degand. Degand shows some promise but gets injured. Gonzalez, at least as a freshmen, appeared to be out of his league, and Johnson simply didn't pan out. All three options flopped. Critics call it bad recruiting/judgment, apologists chalk it up to bad luck. Take your pick.

Grade:
Apologist - C+
Critic - F
Me - C-/D+

In the end I called it a learning experience for Lowe and moved on. Yes, not offering Chris Warren was a bad call. A small blunder, but a blunder nonetheless. Still, hindsight is 20/20. Just ask anyone that overlooked Stephen Curry

2008-09: Lowe picks up Julius Mays... and that's it. An unheralded recruit similar to Gonzalez. Time will tell whether Lowe saw what others missed, or if he whiffed in similar fashion to last year. Keep in mind - Degand is back from injury, and Javi has a year under his belt. The Pack once again, if nothing else, has options at the point.

Grade: Depends on what you think of Mays and whether you think Degand or Gonzalez will step up.

2009: Lowe finally lands a Top 50 guard in Lorenzo Brown. Obviously a ton rests on whether John Wall finds a way to pass on the NCAA title runner-up, Memphis, but as it stands State has a guard that at least on the outside appears to be ACC calibur.


At the end of the day, your opinion with Lowe depends squarely on whether you (A) blame him for the chemistry problems last year, and (B) reject the "bad luck & learning experience" argument with regards to the PG situation. In the end, small mistakes have added up to a lot of frustration. Last season did indeed suck, but that's not an excuse to blow Lowe's mistakes out of proportion.

My opinion: Let's keep things in perspective. I think most will realize how little time Lowe has had the reigns, and that his shortcomings are only valid to a certain extent. In the end I believe Lowe deserves maybe 25% of the deluge of criticism he's gotten to this point.

My advice... as it always seems to be with Pack fans... is to calm down, grab a beer or two, keep showing up at the games, and let our coach do his freaking job... because no matter how you look at it, Lowe deserves at least 1 and probably 2 more at the helm before we can truly make an honest assessment.

[Edited on October 29, 2008 at 1:46 PM. Reason : I :heart: Julius Hodge ]

10/29/2008 1:44:36 PM

Quote :

"The only place Costner ran to in the past 2 seasons is the drive-thru at McDonalds."

what kind of idiot runs to a drive-thru?

the bottom line is, whether you think lowe is doing a good job or not, he was the only guy who wanted the job, and that was when the predecessor got 5 years for free and another 5 years just for making the tournament. who in the hell is going to want this job when the predecessor gets fired after not getting enough time to really get going?

[Edited on October 29, 2008 at 2:03 PM. Reason : can't fire him even if you want to. i don't want to, though.]

10/29/2008 1:50:40 PM

I think I did when I was shitcanned in the Bahamas on Spring Break. It wasn't much of a run though, more of a stumble. I don't really even recall why there was a McDonald's near the resort either. It was sort of out of place...

In any case, edit to follow to respond to ^^

Quote :

"This is where our paths diverge."

I agree with you in part that we had some major deficiencies. However, we have ACC talent and the deficiencies were not so great that we should lose to UNO and ECU and barely scrape by a school like Presybterian.

I can't disagree with most of your other points and like I said, I was fine with where we finished in the ACC last year given our depth and major problems. However, I just don't see how we lost/won close over some of the teams we played. I have to lie that blame with Lowe.

^ c'mon man.. no one is seriously asking for him to be canned. Just having a conversation...

[Edited on October 29, 2008 at 2:04 PM. Reason : x]

10/29/2008 1:56:38 PM

not right now they're not, but in a few weeks they will start.

i'm not trying to shut down the thread or anything, i'm just saying.

[Edited on October 29, 2008 at 2:15 PM. Reason : i love conversation!]

10/29/2008 2:08:12 PM

Quote :

"McCauley is athletic, but he's definitely not fast enough to run in an up-tempo offense."

He is actually a little deceptive. If you remember our win over UNC was started by him breaking down the floor quickly and beating handblow. He won't lead everyone down but he had a way of beating other teams big men.
PG problems and not boxing out were huge for us. We almost lost (and lost) to overmatched opponents simply because we wouldn't box out and would get out rebounded every contest.

10/29/2008 2:57:38 PM

Quote :

"We almost lost (and lost) to overmatched opponents simply because we wouldn't box out and would get out rebounded every contest."

Good lord I forgot about that. I remember throwing things at the TV while watching opposing teams' guards getting rebounds from our big guys. Painful... just painful...

If we see more team chemistry issues and poor fundamentals in the game, then that would make me seriously reconsider our coaching situation. That was one of the main reasons I agreed with Amato getting canned. You could make the argument that the offense would turn things around the following year, but there was no escaping the horders of penalties, turnovers, and all-around DUMB play on the field... not to mention the idiotic statements he made to the media.

In any given year, poor fundamentals, focus, and attitude. When those problems persist from year to year, that's when the blame should be shifted onto the coach's shoulders.

10/29/2008 6:01:05 PM

This thread will get a lot bigger this season........

11/15/2008 9:58:19 PM

indeed.

11/15/2008 9:59:44 PM

I'm guessing we looked like shit tonight?

11/15/2008 10:00:51 PM

So when we finish 16-16 again and no postseason and about 4-12/5-11 in ACC......will Lowe be on a really hot seat or is it entirely up to landing Wall and/or Favors?

11/15/2008 10:01:10 PM

nah, he won't really be on the hotseat for a few more seasons.

11/15/2008 10:02:55 PM

we suffered through 10 years with no titles under Herb Sendek, so we should at least give Lowe half as many years to prove what he can do with his own talent. Putting him on a hotseat now would just scare any decent coach away from coming here to be a replacement.

11/16/2008 1:22:30 AM

except that sendek came in and IMMEDIATELY made things better with someone else's players

lowe has done the opposite

however, i do agree that firing lowe now would not bode well for our program

but if we finish in hte bottom 3 again, he is def in the hot seat and i wouldnt be shocked/unhappy if he was let go

11/16/2008 3:11:52 AM

i would be both shocked and unhappy if lowe was let go after this season.

11/16/2008 6:42:20 AM

i would be both shocked and unhappy if lowe was let go after this season.

11/16/2008 7:48:41 AM