Why would you go all in without really knowing where the other guy stands? I'd played super tight all night. He also thought I was bluffing with three of a kind J's that made a boat.

I've been at tables when people repeatedly push and I just laugh like hell at the table. I saw a guy in Vegas blow through a grand doing that. I laughed harder with each all in.

9/29/2005 3:13:47 PM

oh ok......yea I liked players like that, just sit behind em and let bet off their stack, it can be annoying if you go broke when they actually pull a hand, but yea, in general those players are pretty cake

9/29/2005 3:23:00 PM

number two....

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $2 BB (9 handed) http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi'>converter



MP3 ($49)

CO ($294.90)

Button ($182)

Hero ($244.15)

BB ($55.50)

UTG ($106.85)

UTG+1 ($311.10)

MP1 ($128.30)

MP2 ($148.70)



Preflop: Hero is SB with 2h, Qc, 4d, Th.

2 folds, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, 1 fold, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, Hero completes, BB checks.



Flop: ($12) Ts, 4h, 4s (6 players)

Hero bets $11.4, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $11.40, CO calls $11.40, Button folds.



Turn: ($46.20) 8h (3 players)

Hero bets $43.95, MP2 calls $43.95, CO raises to $219.75,



CO was semi-loose, but very good.


pay it off?

9/29/2005 3:23:37 PM

^you didn't say the result of the last one.....did you fold or something?

^that's a tough one

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 3:30 PM. Reason : fds]

9/29/2005 3:27:08 PM

pilgrimshoes: calls $36.15
*** TURN *** [4d 5c Jc] [3s]
luckysod: checks
pilgrimshoes: bets $44
luckysod: calls $44
*** RIVER *** [4d 5c Jc 3s] [Th]
luckysod: checks
pilgrimshoes: bets $40
luckysod: calls $40
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pilgrimshoes: shows [Qs Ah 3h 2d] (HI: a straight, Ace to Five; LO: 5,4,3,2,A)
luckysod: mucks hand
pilgrimshoes collected $137.15 from pot
pilgrimshoes collected $137.15 from pot
luckysod leaves the table
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $277.30 | Rake $3
Board [4d 5c Jc 3s Th]
Seat 4: pilgrimshoes (button) showed [Qs Ah 3h 2d] and won ($274.30) with HI: a straight, Ace to Five; LO: 5,4,3,2,A
Seat 7: luckysod mucked [Jd 6d Jh 8c]


I figured it for an A2/A2 chop hi/lo


i was wrong i guess.


i really want to hear some more input on the other hand, its really eating me up...


whythe fuck would a solid player still be in (or even called preflop with 88xx, or was i getting slowrolled by TTxx?

9/29/2005 3:33:21 PM

what i think is this.....both players were drawing....middle player's call looked weak, so you're the only one he had to contend with, he had a decent draw and figured he had a good chance to take it down with a bet. Now with that said, there's still probably about 20% he actually did have 1010 or maybe 88with some draw on the flop, but i think he was just using his position....really hard to say without seeing how he had been playing for the past 20- 30 hands or so, i'm really not sure what i would've done

9/29/2005 3:38:26 PM

$1/$2 game is getting up and running.

got three possible 4. Buyin around $50

PM for more details

9/29/2005 6:34:15 PM

$50 for 1/2?

9/29/2005 6:57:39 PM

that's a standard buyin for limit

9/29/2005 7:06:51 PM

I thought it was NL

9/29/2005 8:12:56 PM

its NL...we didnt want to scare anyone away

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 9:18 PM. Reason : 4y6rth]

9/29/2005 9:06:27 PM

25 big blinds for nl is just plain old silly

9/29/2005 10:13:19 PM

Heads up for 2 bucks at Royal Vegas, I just came bacak from 30 chips to win. He had 1970, I had 30
He had me 65.66 to 1 in chips and I won. That's the best comeback I've ever had. Chip and a chair baby

9/29/2005 11:11:38 PM

hey guess what.

played that 20+2 plo event on stars again

final table now im chip lead with 7 left.

w00t!

90k (me)
56k
47k
26k
25k
23k
12k


1k/2k blinds.



wish me well... come sweat if youd like. ill talk to you on aim while its going on

10/1/2005 5:30:57 PM

chop chop for the win.


woot.

$900

my investment in two of these tournaments has been $44.

My return has been $1600+


i should start playing in this everyday.

10/1/2005 6:00:03 PM

10/1/2005 6:21:42 PM

^nice,

i got 5 stories.

50nl table, i have about $30, pocket pair QQ or better, i bet hard, lose to a runner runner straight, flush, trips with a lower pocket pair, etc...

down 150....

10/1/2005 9:15:18 PM

short stacked but alive in a $5+1 7 card stud tourney on PP... down to 26 players....

10/3/2005 2:11:24 AM

Down to 14... still short stacked....

[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 2:43 AM. Reason : out in 12th...]

10/3/2005 2:37:51 AM

Do I ever hate Bodog.........I make money, but its not worth the anger and frustration caused by the 3 or 4 times a day that I get screwed on unbelievable hands, i.e. this one which was luckily only in a .10/.25 room

Was dealt AJ suited diamonds, the other player in question here was dealt 8,3 offsuit but of course I didn't know that at this point

Raised to $1 preflop

Two people call, one of which is the guy with 8,3 offsuit, yes he called a pre-flop raise of 4 times the big blind with 8,3 offsuit

Flop was 3h, 7d, 10d giving me an A high flush draw, I bet $2 (keep in mind this is a .10/.25 table and the pot is only $3 at this point) player 1 folds, the other guy with a pair of 3s and no draws now calls the $2

Turn comes out, 8 of diamonds giving me an A high flush and him two pair, I bet $4.50, the other guy now calls this bet also, I'm sure you can see where this is going

River comes out, 3 of spades, I bet $5, get raised another $5 by the guy with 8,3 offsuit, I raise him another $5 putting him all in thinking to myself no way this guy called a preflop raise with 8,3 offsuit, he probably caught a flush when I did but since mine was A high I'm feeling pretty confident, so I'm sure you see where this is going

Guy of course calls the all-in......this doesn't happen once in a while on bodog, it happens 4, 5, 6 times a day, I once lost a $150 reraised pre-flop all in with AA to 2,6 offsuit.....the flop was 3,4,5, anyone else have these kinds of experiences on bodog all too often

10/3/2005 3:53:31 AM

You can reduce the frequency of this happening by not playing the .10/.25 tables, I can tell you that much.

10/3/2005 7:39:31 AM

^^ That and you can't ever bet a flush safely with a paired board. He just as easily could have called preflop with 33, 77, 88, or 1010. When he suddenly raised on the river that's your cue. Expect people to play crap and chase with bottom pair at those limits, just expect it.

10/3/2005 8:34:04 AM

On Friday in Omaha, which I've never played, I was dealt:

Ac Ad Qc 2c

There was a preflop raise, so I bet the current pot and Mr. Raiser bets the pot again.

I call with 4 people still in:

Flop is: A K 3

Mr. reraiser liked the flop so he bet the pot and I bet that pot again. At this point the other 2 people in left pretty quick. Reraiser bets the pot yet again as do I and after the 2nd round it puts both of us all in for about $50. We turn over and I have the nuts of 3 of a kind Aces. He has 2 pair K's and 3's. The only thing that could have saved him was two running kings.

So the turn was an A and it gave me the absolute nuts of 4 of a kind Aces. First time I've had that happen.

[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 8:40 AM. Reason : a]

10/3/2005 8:36:00 AM

^^

I have a great story about online with flushs from Saturday.

I had Ac 10c

Flop: 6c 7c 10d
Turn: 9c
River: 3c

I had an Ace high flush on the turn, so I bet and this guy calls. Last card I bet and he raises big so I go all in. Board isn't paired or anything so I feel safe, and subsequently lose $40 to a straight flush.

10/3/2005 8:39:20 AM

^^ hey let me into any plo game where 4 people stick around for a pot-repot hand.

10/3/2005 9:15:49 AM

I learned last night and on Thursday, in live games, that when you are one solid player at a table of call stations, you will inevitably end up in the showdown at a huge chip disadvantage because one of the call stations will end up with all the others chips quicker than you can skim the top when you have good hands.

Of course, this just makes finishing them off a little bit more challenging.

10/3/2005 9:30:35 AM

Punter16

Quote :

"Lesson: 27 How Bad are the Beats? Steve Brecher September 19, 2005 While playing on Full Tilt Poker, I have said that there are three topics I won't discuss in table chat; politics, religion, and whether online poker is rigged. That's because many people's opinions on those topics are hardened and not amenable to friendly or productive discussion. Away from the table, I'll venture a couple of comments about improbable events in poker. While not direct instruction in the tactics and strategy of play, these comments may help you take "bad beats" in stride -- and that, in turn, is an essential part of poker maturity. First, let's consider what most would view as a typical "bad beat" -- a lower pocket pair winning against a higher pocket pair in hold 'em, such as KK beating AA. When those hands share one suit, the chance of the worse hand winning is about 18%. The chance of the lower pair winning twice -- that is, the next two times that such hands happen to go against each other -- is about 3%. If in one session of play, a lower pocket pair beat a higher pocket pair twice, that might seem a little, well, weird to some players. Consider another situation involving chance. When two dice are thrown, the chance of rolling "snake eyes" (1-1) is about 3% -- about the same as a lower pocket pair beating a higher pocket pair twice. Suppose there were 600 craps tables using standard, unaltered dice with nine players around each table -- a total of 5,400 players -- and these tables operated for a three-hour "session." How many players would observe snake eyes being thrown at least once? The statistical expectation result is not important. The point is that it's easy to intuitively see that a large number of players would. Further, do you think some players might see snake eyes thrown several times in an evening -- say, three or four times? (That is equivalent to six or eight poker "bad beats.") And if some of those players would be inclined to report their observation on forums and in chat, then it might seem to some as if the dice were "fixed." Let's go back to poker. Recently, I played a hand of No-Limit Hold 'Em on Full Tilt Poker. An opponent four seats in front of the button open-raised pre-flop. It was folded around to me in the big blind, and I called. I semi-bluff check-raised the flop, continued with a semi-bluff bet on the turn, was raised all-in, and called the raise. I made my draw on the river. After the hand my opponent chatted: opponent: ur horrible steve opponent: why the [****] did u call that? opponent: horrible that this site rewards that (Confidential to opponent: I know these comments were made in the heat of the moment after a big loss and don't necessarily reflect your considered view.) Let's take a look at my call on the turn. I held Ad Td; my opponent held Kd Kc. The board was Qd 9d 7h Jc. With my opponent's actual holding, I had 16 outs to win the pot on the river, making me a 1.75 to 1 underdog. Of course, it could have been worse for me against other holdings, but even the worst case for me would have been to be up against K-T (a made straight), and then I would have been only a 3 to 1 underdog. After my bet and the opponent's all in-raise, I was getting pot odds of 3.7 to 1 to call, so the call is clearly correct. But it seemed to my opponent -- and to at least one observer -- that I made a bad call, and that my winning with a 36% chance to do so when I called was a bad beat for my opponent. The moral of this story: While "bad beats" (low-probability events) do occur, sometimes a closer examination of a poker hand can change first impressions and allow you to continue to play with a cooler, clearer head""

Pulled this from FullTilt.com a while back, it's also posted a couple pages ago.

10/3/2005 3:04:58 PM

So in relation what I posted earlier, here's another one:

Got on bodog a few minutes ago, 3 hands into it, playing .10/.25

I'm dealt KQ offsuit, guy in front of me raises to .50, I call, so do 3 or 4 other people

Flop is KKQ, feeling pretty good about that of course, I bet $1.50 not trying to really run anyone out because I just flopped a fullhouse, one call, then I get reraised another $4

I reraise him all-in, $22, everyone else folds, he calls and turns up AA

Turn was some irrelevant crap

River was an A, giving him a full house As full to beat my Ks and Qs



In reply to what you posted GrandMaster, I understand statistics, I understand outs, I understand the rule of 4/2, totally ignoring his decision to call a substantial raise with 8,3 offsuit, after the turn he had two outs, an 8 or a 3, meaning I was roughly a 96% favorite in that hand

Now I understand from time to time the roll of the dice is going to land on that 4% chance, but it doesn't happen 4% of the time on bodog, its more like 30-40% of the time that people with sub 5% chances of winning a hand get the card they need and I'm not saying this based on a small number of hands played on there, I had played 47,500 and some odd hands on bodog last I checked

[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 4:33 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2005 4:26:24 PM

Poker? I don't even know her.

10/3/2005 4:32:14 PM

^^start playing higher stakes ?


^liquor in the front then poker in the rear.

10/3/2005 4:39:51 PM

I used to play nothing but $1/$2, occasionally $2/$4 but rarely

I made good money in the higher blinds but I just got tired of the stress of the bad beats costing me $100 or $150 dollars at a time so I cashed it all out, now I just occasionally put in $30 or $40 and play a little .10/.25 or .25/.50, I can deal with the bad beats much better when they're costing me $20 or $30 instead

10/3/2005 4:45:12 PM

^ same here, but even with .50/1.00 people call you to the river and bet into you with bottem pair.

1/2 was a little less often, most people will hesitate with a 4.00 check raise on the turn. opposed to a 1 or 2.00 one to fish their gutshot or 2nd pair.

I don't know much at all about poker, i've only been playing holdem for 2 months. but that micro limit stuff loses alot more money for me over time than 1/2. Mainly because i'll go on tilt and turn in to one of the calling stations because "It's only a quarter to call. What's 50 cent, i already have 1.00 in the pot" etc etc etc. I turned my last 18 bucks into about 100 from grinding out .50/1.00 and 1.00/2.00


Then i wonbarely placed in a 100 + 9 sng that i split the buyin with a friend...and lost all 160 in about 2 days.

Yes. I suck. But i have a couple low limit ebooks if you want them punter....not that you need em..they're just a good read. The latest edition has been changed to cater towards online calling stations that you keep getting beat by over and over.




And bodog sucks...everyone knows PP has the softest ring games

[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 4:57 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2005 4:56:23 PM

Quote :

"And bodog sucks...everyone knows PP has the softest ring games "

Not true!

10/3/2005 5:14:25 PM

Quote :

"In reply to what you posted GrandMaster, I understand statistics, I understand outs, I understand the rule of 4/2, totally ignoring his decision to call a substantial raise with 8,3 offsuit, after the turn he had two outs, an 8 or a 3, meaning I was roughly a 96% favorite in that hand"

btw: he actually had 4 outs the two remaining 8s and the two remaining 3s, meaning you were roughly a 90% favorite

10/3/2005 5:30:32 PM

^^
Bodog

Limit Grade Availability
$.50-$1 C- 89%
$1-$2 N/A 0%
$2-$4 C 89%
$3-$6 C- 33%
$5-$10 C 78%
$10-$20 C 89%
$15-$30 N/A 0%
$20-$40 D 89%
Short Handed Hold'em
Limit Grade Availability
$.50-$1 D+ 11%
$1-$2 C 100%
$2-$4 F+ 33%
$3-$6 N/A 0%
$5-$10 D 33%
$10-$20 B 22%
$15-$30 C 22%
$20-$40 C+ 67%

----------------------

Limit Grade Availability
$.50-$1 B+ 100%
$1-$2 A- 100%
$2-$4 A- 100%
$3-$6 B+ 100%
$5-$10 B 100%
$10-$20 B- 100%
$15-$30 B+ 100%
$20-$40 C+ 100%
$30-$60 A 100%
$50-$100 B- 100%
$100-$200 D+ 100%
Short Handed Limit Hold'em
Limit Grade Availability
$.50-$1 B+ 100%
$1-$2 A 100%
$2-$4 C+ 100%
$3-$6 C 100%
$5-$10 A+ 100%
$10-$20 A- 100%
$15-$30 B 100%
$20-$40 B- 100%
$30-$60 B- 100%
$50-$100 N/A 0%
$100-$200 N/A 0%




I was going by bonuswhores.com

10/3/2005 5:42:10 PM

oh bodog blows harcore choad. (they do have some good overlays on their guaranteed tournies sometimes, so keep your head up for that one.)

and the players there think they are Gods gift to poker. like holding the "acc championships" with by far some of the worst players from their representative schools.

I was more talking about party poker not having the softest games.

bw.com's rating takes much more into account that game softness, IIRC..

Softest ring games are obviously euro based sites, or smaller sites.

Absolute for instance.

wicked soft full ring games. they are not quite always up and going however, and table selection can be rough. when the low limit O8 games are going, its a great place to learn.

and any prima skin at any level is ridiculously wacky.








(do realize that by soft full ring games, i mean many players to every flop, many players to every showdown, many "suckouts," and many bets on all streets)




funny you should bring up bw

ive lurked there for about a year and half and its termendously helped my game

10/3/2005 5:58:37 PM

^perhaps i was lacking a "full" understanding of what 'soft' referred to.

10/3/2005 7:07:02 PM

What is a "ring game"?

10/3/2005 7:26:52 PM

not a sitandgo, headsup, or full blown tourney.

money not actual chips

10/3/2005 7:31:30 PM

"money" not actual buyin-esque "chip stacks"


^lame explanation

10/3/2005 8:16:01 PM

Any of you guys find that varying what form of poker (omaha, stud, hold 'em, razz) you play leads to better overall outcomes? I started hot in hold 'em, building $100 into $275, but after months of play I began to "force" things too often and now am about even. After a while I feel like I "own the game" and make stupid moves due to impatient play.

I'd never played stud for money before last night, but I found it easier to keep my cool since I felt like I was in unknown territory (which i was). Just wodnered if this ever happened to anyone else.

Thanks FeebleMinded for the starting hand tips so long ago btw.

10/3/2005 8:34:23 PM

^only thing i can relate to is when i switched from 25 NL to 1/2 structured.

10/3/2005 8:46:22 PM

whenever I get to feeling unbeatable, I just sit and read a book for a couple days, then I come back alot more learned and refreshed

10/3/2005 9:01:19 PM

Obviously if you get to feeling unbeatable then you aren't. If you can build your 100 into 275 then no reason you can't build your 275 into 800. Clearly you have a lot to learn.

10/3/2005 9:41:08 PM

ummmm...this is coming from the guy who asked what a ring game is.

10/3/2005 10:51:37 PM

I never claimed anything about my skills.

Just because I make more at work per hour than you guys do playing poker online and only play occasionally and don't keep up with the latest lingo doesn't mean I don't know hold em and can't hold my own against you no problem.

I mean lets face it, if you are the baller that defensive comment just came across as, you wouldn't be on the wolf web.

10/3/2005 10:56:47 PM

damn son...cool off a bit. i apparantly touched a nerve. the point is that after a nice run of cards you can get a little cocky. jesus christ

i work a fulltime job. poker is a hobby. i've only ever put $200 of my own money in and I'm still playing a year and a half later, its nice ancillary income.

[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 10:59 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2005 10:58:46 PM

I just arrived in Connecticut last night, so I hit Foxwoods today. They have an interesting rake structure in which they take no rake, but they require a $5 fee every 30 minutes. I ended the night up $220, but it could have been more (lost $120 to a preflop all-in, I had QQ to AQ off).

I had the best poker play of my life tonight too. To preface this, let me say that I have read through "Mike Caro's Book of Poker Tells." It's very interesting reading, and I have read through it fully twice already. Anyways, here's the hand: I was dealt 33 and a guy that had been playing really aggressively all night raised it to $12 preflop. I called, and the flop was Q74 with 2 hearts.

The guy who initially raised quickly glanced down at his cards and then threw out a $25 bet. Two other players folded and the action was on me. At that very instant, I did something I have never done before. I paused for about 10 seconds, collected myself, and put him on Ax of hearts. Now granted, I had no idea what this "x" was. I really didn't think he had the queen, but we'll get back to that later. The reason I put him on Ax was because he raised every A preflop religiously, and the flush draw came from the tell of glancing at his cards after a flop with 2 of a suit. The fact that I didn't feel he had the queen was more of a logic play than anything. When somone has AQ suited, they remember exactly what cards they have. AQ suited is a really pretty hand, as far as poker hands go. There would be no need to look at your cards to see if you have AQ suited.

So I call the $25 bet. The next card is a 2, no heart. This time he bets $40. Well, I decide to stick with my original read and I call. The last card is a J, once again an over, but once again, you remember AJ suited. He looks at me, looks down,and quickly bets $120 and glances up at me as if to judge my reaction. By this time, the pot was right around $180, of which I had contributed $77. I wanted so bad to fold. Calling $120 on the river with just pocket 3's while there are 4 overs out there is quite annerving. He sure as hell was attempting to represent either the Q or even an overpair. Losing $77 sucks, but losing $197 would have crippled me. I really believed he was on a flush draw, but I have been wrong before. Plus, even if my read was accurate, what was the "x"? I wasn't so much worried about the Q or J, but the 7 and 4 were scary as shit. Sheepishly, I said, "I'm sorry you missed your flush draw" and threw the $120 in chips in and flipped over 33. Everyone at the table was like "oh shit." The guy got a pissed off look and threw his hand in the middle. I wasn't even worried about the pot. I told the dealer to stop shuffling the chips, and that I wanted to see his hand because I had made the call. His cards had landed in a way such that they could easily be unmucked, and the dealer grabbed them and flipped over A9 of hearts. My heart skipped a beat. I could not believe I had just made that play.

The next hour was a blur. I ended up cashing out, and not really getting involved with anymore big pots. I have never made a play like that before, and who knows if I ever will again. I totally attribute the win to me reading that book, and trying to pick up on tells that I normally pay no attention to.

10/4/2005 12:08:03 AM

QUALITY

great play man. i don't know if I woulda called with a pair of threes but damn nice play.

[Edited on October 4, 2005 at 12:12 AM. Reason : .]

10/4/2005 12:11:03 AM

Quote :

"Obviously if you get to feeling unbeatable then you aren't. If you can build your 100 into 275 then no reason you can't build your 275 into 800. Clearly you have a lot to learn."

Own the game =/= unbeatable. I was refering to playing too many pots believing my skill would make up for mediocre hands. Stupid, yes, and I should stick to what works (i.e. smart tight aggressive play). I asked whether anyone had this phenomenon happen to them and if playing a variety of games helped any.

I did not however need to be reminded I'm a novice, and I'll hold my own too thank you.

10/4/2005 12:16:42 AM