http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003118176

Quote :

"Polls: More Than 4 in 10 Americans Still Think Saddam Involved in 9/11 Attacks By E&P Staff Published: September 07, 2006 11:55 AM ET NEW YORK Five years after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, better than 4 in 10 Americans still believe that former Iraq leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in those attacks, according to two recent polls. An Opinion Research Corporation on behalf of CNN released today on numerous issues surrounding the Iraq war, asked whether Hussein was personally involved in the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Fifty-two percent said he was not, but 43% said they believe he was. "

Haha. I think we can safely assume that this 43% also believe the official fairy tale about bin Laden and the 19 camel jockeys pulling off 9/11 too.

9/8/2006 12:53:53 PM

Quote :

"Ooooooooh. Lots of deragotory names against those questioning the official story. Calling 1/3 of the country "nimrods", "loonies", "wackos", "paranoid", "psychotic", etc. Impressive. Quite a professional article. I'm convinced. I think I better support the official fairy tale now."

You bitch and bitch and bitch whenever anyone says anything bad in article about 9/11 conspiray theories. However you have no problem posting Alex Jones articles that throw around brilliant terms such as:

"mixture of kindergarten kids and Rhesus monkeys"
"pathetic excuse for an article"
"demented moronic level of thinking"
"how utterly stupid and retarded their claims sound"
"inept idiots who couldn't win a debate with a 3-year-old"

Your level of hypocrisy is only exceeded by your level of self delusion.

Quote :

"NY911Truth.org, by the way, is controlled opposition...pushing the lie that Bush & Cheney alone (and a few other puppet politicians) masterminded 9/11."

Prove it! Whenever any kind of entity doesn't agree with exactly what you think, you label it controlled opposition. Please provide some proof that the zionist NWO founded NY911Truth.org to throw of everyone if you're going to throw around ridiculous claims like that.

Quote :

"The all-knowing and eminently righteous government responds to those who don't buy the official fairy tale"

OMG! Is that slander? Hello pot! Meet kettle!

Quote :

"Haha. I think we can safely assume that this 43% also believe the official fairy tale about bin Laden and the 19 camel jockeys pulling off 9/11 too."

You've never addressed any of my questions about statements like this. Are arabs just stupid stupid people who can't do anything right? Whenever there is any kind of terrorist attack, the first thing that you do is immediately dismiss the possibility that a simple arab could pull it off.

By the way:

You don't even bring of valid points or address questions anymore. All you do is quote bomb articles from news sources that no one has ever heard of that tout the popularity of 9/11 conspiracy theories. Have you completely given up on defending your ideas, instead choosing to show us statistics about people who agree with you? If your case is so airtight, why can't you defend it?

Here are some videos of actual building implosions:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3734778582740389904&q=implosion

Hear the deafening explosions long before the building even moves?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6979955002470780153&q=implosion
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6209867556562706196&q=implosion
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5446838557512388694&q=implosion
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5360235832416833797&q=implosion

This is the same building. Notice the clearly visible explosions all over the building? Notice how the building collapse begins at the bottom instead of the top falling first?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5515424451823800690&q=implosion

Same features, different building. Loud explosions. Collapse begins at the bottom, not the top. I know that you love to point out the cloud of dust shot from the window during the collapse of the WTC, but the simple fact is that there is absolutely no need to set off additional explosions as the building is collapsing - momentum will do the job.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8719593880031165898&q=implosion

Heres the same thing in Raleigh, no less. There is no need to set off more charges during collapse. What you saw during the WTC collapse was air being forced out as the floors pancaked.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7000444892387259083&q=implosion

Heres a building in Las Vegas. Notice the many clearly visible sequenced explosions? Where were those when the WTC came down? One plume of dust coming out of a window is not evidence of a controlled demolition.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6449270076349123045&q=implosion

Heres another one. Notice the explosions all took place before the collapse, not during.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4451252877216031192&q=implosion

Heres a dorm in Minnesota. Loud and clearly visible sequenced explosions prior to collapse. There are even plumes of dust ejected from the windows during collapse, just like the WTC. Notice that you don't hear any explosion accompanying the dust plume.

There are a lot more videos out there if you want to see more. All of those buildings were significantly smaller than the World Trade Center, yet still produced deafening explosions. How many tons of explosives would have been needed to bring down two 110 story skyscrapers? Why doesn't a single video of the event include the sound of sequenced explosions?

Look at the explosions themselves. They all happened before the collapse. In every single video you see and hear charges going off followed by a dead silence, and then the collapse of the building. Ever single piece of evidence that you bring to the table lacks this. Instead you point to puffs of dust near windows as the prrof of explosives. Find me a video that features explosives being set off underneath a collapsing structure as it falls.

All of these building begin collapse at the bottom. The tops of the WTC (above the point of impact) fell into the rest of the builing with sufficient momentum to bring the towers down. Find me a video of this technique being used to collapse a high rise.

9/8/2006 1:24:43 PM

Same questions....35 pages later...

Who is avoiding a rational argument?

No, bin Laden didn't have any motive to carry out the 9/11 attacks.

Its not like he issued a fatwah or anything urging muslims to kill americans.

Keep ignoring evidence, little buddy.

Quote :

"Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans Published in Al-Quds al-'Arabi on Febuary 23, 1998 Statement signed by Sheikh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin; Ayman al-Zawahiri, leader of the Jihad Group in Egypt; Abu- Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, a leader of the Islamic Group; Sheikh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan; and Fazlul Rahman, leader of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh ... All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al- Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said "As for the militant struggle, it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life." On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God." This is in addition to the words of Almighty God "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated and oppressed--women and children, whose cry is 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'" We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson."

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm

Could you please address these questions? I'm not trying to redirect or distract here. I'm genuinely curious. You made statements regarding all of these questions in this very thread, I would just like you to explain them before moving on. I questioned these claims when they were originally made, but you ignored me. Why won't you answer them?

Why didn't they build a pipeline in 1998? Why did they blow up their own african embassies and then launch a missile attack on Afghanistan? They were set to build a natural gas pipeline with the Taliban then. Why mess that up for no reason?

You don't believe that Afghanistan was invaded for the sake of a pipeline? Then why are you defending that theory so stubbornly?

You just said that Afghanistan was invaded so that a pipeline could be built. Now you're saying that the zionists wanted to prevent the building of a pipeline - just like how Iraq was invaded to secure the oil supply even though the zionists don't care about the oil supply. How do you reconcile all of the conflicting information that you spout off on here?

By the way, how did the zionists cause the Revolutionary War?

Do you even know anything about american history? To say that the Civil War was caused simply by "illuminati agitators" is to ignore almost every detail of the decades that preceded the conflict.

Can we get some proof that John Wilkes Booth was an agent of the NWO rather than an upset Confederate sympathizer?

I would also like to see some proof that Pearl Harbor was caused by the evil edomite zionists.

You have provided absolutely no evidence at all that the Rothschilds are the zionists at the top running world events. They were a prominent family that supported the creation of a jewish state, that is all. Please provide some evidence other than "Here are some rich jews!"

So why should anyone believe your rantings anyway You have admitted that you hate jews. As such, you are far from an impartial source when you blame jews for every problem in the world.

So when was the Israeli false flag terrorist attack in Washington state?

What about the train bombing in Mumbai? Was that a government inside job? Whenever muslim terrorists attack western interests you immediately blame it on the zionists, what about this one?

Why is it spamming if I repeat unanswered questions, but it's ok for you to repost the same article in the same thread five times?

Can I get your take on this? I posted it in your Mel Gibson fan club thread but you must have missed it:

Here is Wikipedias definition of a conspiracy theory. Your Zionist NWO plot is in line with ever single point.

1. Initiated on the basis of limited, partial or circumstantial evidence;
Conceived in reaction to media reports and images, as opposed to, for example, thorough knowledge of the relevant forensic evidence.

2. Addresses an event or process that has broad historical or emotional impact;
Seeks to interpret a phenomenon which has near-universal interest and emotional significance, a story that may thus be of some compelling interest to a wide audience.

3. Reduces morally complex social phenomena to simple, immoral actions;
Impersonal, institutional processes, especially errors and oversights, interpreted as malign, consciously intended and designed by immoral individuals.

4. Personifies complex social phenomena as powerful individual conspirators;
Related to (3) but distinct from it, deduces the existence of powerful individual conspirators from the 'impossibility' that a chain of events lacked direction by a person.

5. Allots superhuman talents or resources to conspirators;
May require conspirators to possess unique discipline, unrepentant resolve, advanced or unknown technology, uncommon psychological insight, historical foresight, unlimited resources, etc.

6. Key steps in argument rely on inductive, not deductive reasoning;
Inductive steps are mistaken to bear as much confidence as deductive ones.

7. Appeals to 'common sense';
Common sense steps substitute for the more robust, academically respectable methodologies available for investigating sociological and scientific phenomena.

8. Exhibits well-established logical and methodological fallacies;
Formal and informal logical fallacies are readily identifiable among the key steps of the argument.

9. Is produced and circulated by 'outsiders', often anonymous, and generally lacking peer review;
Story originates with a person who lacks any insider contact or knowledge, and enjoys popularity among persons who lack critical (especially technical) knowledge.

10. Is upheld by persons with demonstrably false conceptions of relevant science;
At least some of the story's believers believe it on the basis of a mistaken grasp of elementary scientific facts.

11. Enjoys zero credibility in expert communities;
Academics and professionals tend to ignore the story, treating it as too frivolous to invest their time and risk their personal authority in disproving.

12. Rebuttals provided by experts are ignored or accommodated through elaborate new twists in the narrative;
When experts do respond to the story with critical new evidence, the conspiracy is elaborated (sometimes to a spectacular degree) to discount the new evidence, often incorporating the rebuttal as a part of the conspiracy.

13. The conspiracy is claimed to involve just about anybody;
Conspiracy tales grow in the telling, and can swell to world-spanning proportions. As the adherents struggle to explain counter-arguments, the conspiracy grows even more (see preceding item). Conspiracy theories that have been around for a few decades typically encompass the whole world and huge portions of history.

14. The conspiracy centers on the "usual suspects";
Classical conspiracy theories feature people, groups or organizations that are discriminated against in the culture where the story is told. Jews and foreigners are a common target. Likewise, organizations with a bad or colorful reputation feature prominently, such as the Templars, the Nazis and just about any secret service.

HEAVEN FORBID THAT YOU DEFEND YOUR IDEAS LIKE A BIG KID

9/8/2006 1:26:03 PM

.







The MSM can't ignore those questioning the official story...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14723997/

Quote :

"9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply Many Americans suspect U.S. government involvement or complicity By Michael Powell The Washington Post Sept 8, 2006 [...] A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. [...]"

9/8/2006 4:15:25 PM

American Idol's number of viewers multiply

OH shit it must be a great show!

9/8/2006 4:17:24 PM

salisburyboy, you don't even discuss 9/11 any more, you just post articles about people who think that there was a conspiracy and hope that we jump on your pathetic little band wagon.

You are incapable of intelligent discussion.

9/8/2006 4:32:25 PM

Check out this lengthy article this global jewish news service devotes to arguing against the "lie" that the Jews were behind the 9/11 attacks...

http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=17010&intcategoryid=4

Quote :

"The lie that just won’t seem to die The Jews were behind 9/11 attacks By Richard Greenberg August 31, 2006 NEW YORK, Aug. 31 (JTA) — The terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, are synonymous with wanton destruction. But they also produced an offshoot that seems virtually indestructible. In addition to causing massive loss of life, the attacks spawned a host of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories that implicated the Jews and Israel in the bloodshed. As it turns out, those canards were not fleeting expressions of paranoid fantasy that dissipated once they were debunked. On the contrary, nearly five years later, the various “Jews-did-it” scenarios emanating from the wreckage of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon have proven stubbornly resilient. “If anything, they’re flourishing,” says Chip Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, a liberal think tank based in Somerville, Mass. “The idea that Jews were somehow involved in 9/11 has now become a permanent feature in the conspiracy pantheon, like the JFK assassination and the Oklahoma City bombing,” says Mark Pitcavage, director of fact-finding for the Anti-Defamation League."

The reason this belief won't die and is growing is because......it is true.

Quote :

"The phenomenon might seem baffling, if not disturbing, but its practical impact is unclear. The Internet is the chief incubator and disseminator of apocryphal 9/11 story lines, and cyberspace remains awash with chatter purporting to link the Jews with America’s worst terrorist attacks, according to Pitcavage. But the same message, he added, is being spread through books, pamphlets, videos and speakers. The purveyors are an eclectic aggregation that spans the geopolitical spectrum. They include neo-Nazis and other white supremacists in the United States and elsewhere; anti-government zealots; young anti-war activists; Holocaust deniers; Lyndon Larouche supporters; New-Age ideologues; propagandists and journalists within the Arab and Muslim world; and assorted devotees of the early-20th-century forgery, “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” which purports to document a Jewish plan to dominate the world."

That last paragraph is quite illuminating in a number of respects. It identifies the prime enemies of organized Jewry....ie, racially conscious whites who oppose their Jewish/Zionist-controlled governments, oppose the Zionist-orchestrated wars, don't buy the Holocaust fable, who believe the Protocols document is genuine, etc.

Quote :

"A conspiracy-tinged view of world events seems to be gaining traction in America and elsewhere, according to Lou Manza, chairman of the psychology department at Lebanon Valley College in Annville, Pa. As evidence of this trend, he cites polls indicating that suspect theories of all kinds have gained popularity over the past 10 to 15 years. Among the possible explanations for this emerging worldview: In today’s information-bloated environment, the conviction that all-powerful forces control global events makes life easier for believers by obviating the need to think critically about complex issues. "

Or....the internet. You know...an alternative news and information source. As opposed to only having Jewish-controlled media and information sources, as largely existed prior to the internet.


[Edited on September 10, 2006 at 2:37 PM. Reason : 1]

9/10/2006 2:36:07 PM

Quote :

"The reason this belief won't die and is growing is because......it is true."

Then why haven't you been able to prove it in 47 pages (or the 30 page thread that preceeded this one)?

Quote :

"That last paragraph is quite illuminating in a number of respects. It identifies the prime enemies of organized Jewry....ie, racially conscious whites who oppose their Jewish/Zionist-controlled governments, oppose the Zionist-orchestrated wars, don't buy the Holocaust fable, who believe the Protocols document is genuine, etc."

No, it makes it clear that a variety of people can fall victim to nonsensical conspiracy theories if they are packaged neatly and put on the internet.

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to prove that the Protocols are genuine.

Quote :

"Or....the internet. You know...an alternative news and information source. As opposed to only having Jewish-controlled media and information sources, as largely existed prior to the internet."

Again, feel free to prove that the media is controlled by evil zionists if you're going to keep this up.

By the way:

You don't even bring of valid points or address questions anymore. All you do is quote bomb articles from news sources that no one has ever heard of that tout the popularity of 9/11 conspiracy theories. Have you completely given up on defending your ideas, instead choosing to show us statistics about people who agree with you? If your case is so airtight, why can't you defend it?

Here are some videos of actual building implosions:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3734778582740389904&q=implosion

Hear the deafening explosions long before the building even moves?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6979955002470780153&q=implosion
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6209867556562706196&q=implosion
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5446838557512388694&q=implosion
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5360235832416833797&q=implosion

This is the same building. Notice the clearly visible explosions all over the building? Notice how the building collapse begins at the bottom instead of the top falling first?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5515424451823800690&q=implosion

Same features, different building. Loud explosions. Collapse begins at the bottom, not the top. I know that you love to point out the cloud of dust shot from the window during the collapse of the WTC, but the simple fact is that there is absolutely no need to set off additional explosions as the building is collapsing - momentum will do the job.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8719593880031165898&q=implosion

Heres the same thing in Raleigh, no less. There is no need to set off more charges during collapse. What you saw during the WTC collapse was air being forced out as the floors pancaked.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7000444892387259083&q=implosion

Heres a building in Las Vegas. Notice the many clearly visible sequenced explosions? Where were those when the WTC came down? One plume of dust coming out of a window is not evidence of a controlled demolition.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6449270076349123045&q=implosion

Heres another one. Notice the explosions all took place before the collapse, not during.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4451252877216031192&q=implosion

Heres a dorm in Minnesota. Loud and clearly visible sequenced explosions prior to collapse. There are even plumes of dust ejected from the windows during collapse, just like the WTC. Notice that you don't hear any explosion accompanying the dust plume.

There are a lot more videos out there if you want to see more. All of those buildings were significantly smaller than the World Trade Center, yet still produced deafening explosions. How many tons of explosives would have been needed to bring down two 110 story skyscrapers? Why doesn't a single video of the event include the sound of sequenced explosions?

Look at the explosions themselves. They all happened before the collapse. In every single video you see and hear charges going off followed by a dead silence, and then the collapse of the building. Ever single piece of evidence that you bring to the table lacks this. Instead you point to puffs of dust near windows as the prrof of explosives. Find me a video that features explosives being set off underneath a collapsing structure as it falls.

All of these building begin collapse at the bottom. The tops of the WTC (above the point of impact) fell into the rest of the builing with sufficient momentum to bring the towers down. Find me a video of this technique being used to collapse a high rise.

9/10/2006 2:47:04 PM

Same questions....35 pages later...

Who is avoiding a rational argument?

No, bin Laden didn't have any motive to carry out the 9/11 attacks.

Its not like he issued a fatwah or anything urging muslims to kill americans.

Keep ignoring evidence, little buddy.

Quote :

"Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans Published in Al-Quds al-'Arabi on Febuary 23, 1998 Statement signed by Sheikh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin; Ayman al-Zawahiri, leader of the Jihad Group in Egypt; Abu- Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, a leader of the Islamic Group; Sheikh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan; and Fazlul Rahman, leader of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh ... All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al- Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said "As for the militant struggle, it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life." On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God." This is in addition to the words of Almighty God "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated and oppressed--women and children, whose cry is 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'" We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson."

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm

Could you please address these questions? I'm not trying to redirect or distract here. I'm genuinely curious. You made statements regarding all of these questions in this very thread, I would just like you to explain them before moving on. I questioned these claims when they were originally made, but you ignored me. Why won't you answer them?

Why didn't they build a pipeline in 1998? Why did they blow up their own african embassies and then launch a missile attack on Afghanistan? They were set to build a natural gas pipeline with the Taliban then. Why mess that up for no reason?

You don't believe that Afghanistan was invaded for the sake of a pipeline? Then why are you defending that theory so stubbornly?

You just said that Afghanistan was invaded so that a pipeline could be built. Now you're saying that the zionists wanted to prevent the building of a pipeline - just like how Iraq was invaded to secure the oil supply even though the zionists don't care about the oil supply. How do you reconcile all of the conflicting information that you spout off on here?

By the way, how did the zionists cause the Revolutionary War?

Do you even know anything about american history? To say that the Civil War was caused simply by "illuminati agitators" is to ignore almost every detail of the decades that preceded the conflict.

Can we get some proof that John Wilkes Booth was an agent of the NWO rather than an upset Confederate sympathizer?

I would also like to see some proof that Pearl Harbor was caused by the evil edomite zionists.

You have provided absolutely no evidence at all that the Rothschilds are the zionists at the top running world events. They were a prominent family that supported the creation of a jewish state, that is all. Please provide some evidence other than "Here are some rich jews!"

So why should anyone believe your rantings anyway You have admitted that you hate jews. As such, you are far from an impartial source when you blame jews for every problem in the world.

So when was the Israeli false flag terrorist attack in Washington state?

What about the train bombing in Mumbai? Was that a government inside job? Whenever muslim terrorists attack western interests you immediately blame it on the zionists, what about this one?

Why is it spamming if I repeat unanswered questions, but it's ok for you to repost the same article in the same thread five times?

Can I get your take on this? I posted it in your Mel Gibson fan club thread but you must have missed it:

Here is Wikipedias definition of a conspiracy theory. Your Zionist NWO plot is in line with ever single point.

1. Initiated on the basis of limited, partial or circumstantial evidence;
Conceived in reaction to media reports and images, as opposed to, for example, thorough knowledge of the relevant forensic evidence.

2. Addresses an event or process that has broad historical or emotional impact;
Seeks to interpret a phenomenon which has near-universal interest and emotional significance, a story that may thus be of some compelling interest to a wide audience.

3. Reduces morally complex social phenomena to simple, immoral actions;
Impersonal, institutional processes, especially errors and oversights, interpreted as malign, consciously intended and designed by immoral individuals.

4. Personifies complex social phenomena as powerful individual conspirators;
Related to (3) but distinct from it, deduces the existence of powerful individual conspirators from the 'impossibility' that a chain of events lacked direction by a person.

5. Allots superhuman talents or resources to conspirators;
May require conspirators to possess unique discipline, unrepentant resolve, advanced or unknown technology, uncommon psychological insight, historical foresight, unlimited resources, etc.

6. Key steps in argument rely on inductive, not deductive reasoning;
Inductive steps are mistaken to bear as much confidence as deductive ones.

7. Appeals to 'common sense';
Common sense steps substitute for the more robust, academically respectable methodologies available for investigating sociological and scientific phenomena.

8. Exhibits well-established logical and methodological fallacies;
Formal and informal logical fallacies are readily identifiable among the key steps of the argument.

9. Is produced and circulated by 'outsiders', often anonymous, and generally lacking peer review;
Story originates with a person who lacks any insider contact or knowledge, and enjoys popularity among persons who lack critical (especially technical) knowledge.

10. Is upheld by persons with demonstrably false conceptions of relevant science;
At least some of the story's believers believe it on the basis of a mistaken grasp of elementary scientific facts.

11. Enjoys zero credibility in expert communities;
Academics and professionals tend to ignore the story, treating it as too frivolous to invest their time and risk their personal authority in disproving.

12. Rebuttals provided by experts are ignored or accommodated through elaborate new twists in the narrative;
When experts do respond to the story with critical new evidence, the conspiracy is elaborated (sometimes to a spectacular degree) to discount the new evidence, often incorporating the rebuttal as a part of the conspiracy.

13. The conspiracy is claimed to involve just about anybody;
Conspiracy tales grow in the telling, and can swell to world-spanning proportions. As the adherents struggle to explain counter-arguments, the conspiracy grows even more (see preceding item). Conspiracy theories that have been around for a few decades typically encompass the whole world and huge portions of history.

14. The conspiracy centers on the "usual suspects";
Classical conspiracy theories feature people, groups or organizations that are discriminated against in the culture where the story is told. Jews and foreigners are a common target. Likewise, organizations with a bad or colorful reputation feature prominently, such as the Templars, the Nazis and just about any secret service.

HEAVEN FORBID THAT YOU DEFEND YOUR IDEAS LIKE A BIG KID

9/10/2006 2:47:54 PM

Check out this poll...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/

Quote :

"Do you believe any 9/11 conspiracy theories that indicate the U.S. government was involved? * 28329 responses Yes, I believe there's evidence. 59% No, that's ridiculous. 30% I'm not sure. 11% "

Ahaha. Who's winning this information war again?

[Edited on September 10, 2006 at 2:54 PM. Reason : ``]

9/10/2006 2:53:30 PM

Oh my God! Salisburyboy is ignoring questions?!?!

How much do you want to bet that Alex Jones posted a link to that survey on prisonplanet and flooded it with his fairy tale believers?

How else would you have seen something on msnbc?

I was right. At the very top of the title page of prisonplanet.com.

[Edited on September 10, 2006 at 3:06 PM. Reason : .]

9/10/2006 2:58:04 PM

unofficial polls dont mean jack shit, especially spur-of-the-moment internet polls from online sites. ask any professional polling agency about what it takes to have a legit, unbiased poll.

9/10/2006 3:08:00 PM

the only thing that means anything to you apparantly is whatever the MSM or government overlords tell you to do or believe

9/10/2006 3:31:06 PM

prove to me that poll was unbiased and legit

btw going by this logic

Quote :

"the only thing that means anything to you apparantly is whatever the MSM or government overlords tell you to do or believe"

that poll is just an instrument of the MSM. so if you believe it to be true, then you are just a mere puppet of the government overlords and MSM, right?

Assessing a Poll's Validity
http://mtsu32.mtsu.edu:11050/271/pollvalidity.htm

[Edited on September 10, 2006 at 3:47 PM. Reason : .]

9/10/2006 3:36:13 PM

Ahahaha.

So now that we have discredited your little poll as a load of bunk skewed by alex jones himself, all you can do is slander us as people who don't think for ourselves.

Another pathetic job of sidestepping the debate because you are incapable of defending your ideas.

You are a sad sight to behold, little buddy.

9/10/2006 3:37:41 PM

THERE WAS NO CONSPIRACY. THIS THREAD SHOULD PERMANENTLY BE DELETED !!!

9/10/2006 3:53:01 PM

Quote :

"THERE WAS NO CONSPIRACY"

So even if you buy the official fairy tale, there was no conspiracy? As the story goes, bin Laden and the 19 camel jockeys who couldn't fly Cessnas didn't conspire and plan the 9/11 attacks out of the cave in Afghanistan?

Quote :

"THIS THREAD SHOULD PERMANENTLY BE DELETED !!!"

Censorship of those questioning the official conspiracy theory is your only chance of preserving the official lie about 9/11. The truth destroys a lie, and there's no reversing it.

9/10/2006 4:01:25 PM

Quote :

"THERE WAS NO CONSPIRACY."

dude. get over this elaborate display of fiction. our government would not do this to us. really. it's people like you that our a disgrace to our servicemen and people who died in those attacks.

9/10/2006 4:40:54 PM

THE MERRY GO ROUND BROKE DOWN
AND WE WENT ROUND AND ROUND
EACH TIME T'WOULD MISS
WE'D STEAL A KISS
AND THE MERRY GO ROUND WENT

OOMPA PA OOMPA PA OOMPA OOMPA OOMPA PA PA

9/10/2006 5:15:41 PM

Quote :

"As the story goes, bin Laden and the 19 camel jockeys who couldn't fly Cessnas didn't conspire and plan the 9/11 attacks out of the cave in Afghanistan?"

They could fly aircraft with enough proficiency to hit a target. Feel free to try to disprove me.

Now please address your camel jockey comment. You've never addressed any of my questions about statements like this. Are arabs just stupid stupid people who can't do anything right? Whenever there is any kind of terrorist attack, the first thing that you do is immediately dismiss the possibility that a simple arab could pull it off.

Regardless, you know what he means. You aren't that stupid (are you?). Amsterdam is stating that there was no government conspiracy. You can bitch and moan and try to divert the discussion with your hissy fit over semantics, but its clear to everyone what he means.

Quote :

"Censorship of those questioning the official conspiracy theory is your only chance of preserving the official lie about 9/11. The truth destroys a lie, and there's no reversing it."

This thread should be deleted because it is on a discussion board, yet there is no discussion in it. Just you spamming with articles that you have cut and pasted directly from prisonplanet and similar websites. I have compiled a tremendous list of unanswered questions (that you yourself brought up), yet you have ignored them for 35 pages.

Now please start playing with the big kids and point out where you destroyed the "official" story.

9/10/2006 5:58:40 PM

actually this thread should be moved to chit chat. it's bullsh!t.

9/11/2006 7:37:09 AM

A thread similar to this should exist, as there are many problems found within the "official" story of events. However, salisburyboy's mindless posts ensure that there can never be a serious discussion.

9/11/2006 12:14:26 PM

Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks...

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=8512

Quote :

"Iran says U.S., Israel ordered September 11 attacks Wed. 06 Sep 2006 Iran Focus Tehran, Iran, Sep. 06 – The Supreme Commander of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps accused the Bush Administration and the Israeli security service Mossad of ordering the September 11, 2001 attacks in New York and Washington, DC. “The events of September 11 were ordered by U.S. [officials] and Mossad so that they could carry out their strategy of pre-emption and warmongering and unipolarisation in order to dominate the Middle East”, Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi told military commanders on Tuesday. His comments were reported by the state-run news agency ISNA. [...]"

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/284273_conspire08.html

Quote :

"Indications add up to government conspiracy Friday, September 8, 2006 JAMES MORGANTE GUEST COLUMNIST An Aug. 8 Seattle P-I editorial asked, "Where are the facts? Where is the evidence?" about government complicity in the 9/11 attacks. The case for complicity begins with motive and benefit. In his 1997 book "The Grand Chessboard," Zbigniew Brzezinski argues that the key to global dominance in the 21st century lies in control of Central Asian oil and gas reserves. Establishing a U.S. presence there would require the kind of military deployment that only "a direct external threat" could justify. [...]"

9/11/2006 12:23:46 PM

Quote :

"Iran says U.S., Israel ordered September 11 attacks"

if IRAN says it it must be true

9/11/2006 12:24:39 PM

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

Quote :

"Iran Army Chief says that U.S. and Mossad behind the 9/11 attacks..."

That's worse than using prisonplanet as a source

9/11/2006 12:26:49 PM

Quote :

"That's worse than using prisonplanet as a source"

Why? Because the Jewish-controlled MSM and U.S. Government would have you believe that Iran is in "the axis of evil" and are "the bad guys"? The same MSM and Governemnt that INTENTIONALLY LIED about Iraq to start the Iraq war...and 9/11...and many other issues. And now they are lying about Iran to try to start a war with them.

Why do you have such faith in the MSM and U.S. Government when they lie to you over and over and over again?

Iran actually has credibility. The MSM and U.S. Government do NOT.

[Edited on September 11, 2006 at 12:39 PM. Reason : ``]

9/11/2006 12:37:14 PM

Why? Because the Iranian-controlled Iran Focus and Iranian Government would have you believe that the US are the "bad guys"? The same Iranian Government that INTENTIONALLY TOOK AMERICAN HOSTAGES in teh 1980s. And now they are lying about the US to try and start a war with them.

Why do you have such faith in Iran when they hate you as much as any other American?

9/11/2006 12:39:19 PM

Why do you have such faith in Iran to tell the truth?

9/11/2006 12:39:20 PM

Quote :

"Iran actually has credibility."

The ONLY reason you think Iran has credibility is because they happen to agree with you.

9/11/2006 12:40:56 PM

The Jewish MSM and the U.S. Government have ZERO credibility. They lie to you about virtually everything of any importance, and continue to cover-up the truth on HUGE issues. They lied to trick us into war in Iraq. They're lying about 9/11.

But some people apparantly trust whatever they say for some odd reason. Maybe they enjoy believing lies.


[Edited on September 11, 2006 at 12:46 PM. Reason : ``]

9/11/2006 12:43:51 PM

Help me follow your logic here...


The US government lied. Therefore, Iran's government is telling the truth.


Did I get it right? Becuase that's exactly what you're saying.

9/11/2006 12:45:32 PM

THE MERRY GO ROUND BROKE DOWN
AND WE WENT ROUND AND ROUND
EACH TIME T'WOULD MISS
WE'D STEAL A KISS
AND THE MERRY GO ROUND WENT

OOMPA PA OOMPA PA OOMPA OOMPA OOMPA PA PA

9/11/2006 12:46:40 PM

So, the U.S. Government DELIBERATELY LIES about Iraq's threat to trick the U.S. public into war, and you aren't the least bit suspicious when they start pushing for war against Iran? You actually believe the Government 100% with what they're saying about Iran no questions asked?

9/11/2006 12:48:23 PM

the US didnt have to trick the public...just Congress...is the whole US intelligence community a bunch of Jews?

9/11/2006 12:50:19 PM

^^^ WHEE!!!!

^^ It doesn't matter what the US/MSM/Zionists says. Whether they lie or not has zero bearing on the credibility of Iranian government.

Your enemy's enemy is not necessarily your friend.

9/11/2006 12:52:39 PM

i think i've figured it out if you guys havent already

salisburyboy is a radical Islamic fundamentalist

hey look how awesome Iran is:

Men and women can't learn in same classrooms, or buildings http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=8404

Men and women can't go to same parks http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=8086

Iran to stone woman to death for adultery http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=8061

Gosh what a great fucking country

9/11/2006 12:56:23 PM

Just because Iran isn't so pleasant in some respects doesn't mean they can't tell the truth about some issues....specifically the j00ish state of "Israel."

And who is more credible...the Arabs/muslims or da J00z? I don't agree with islam or many aspects of muslim/arab culture, but the fact of the matter is that muslims/arabs were framed for 9/11 and Iraq was invaded on an unjustified basis. And "the tribe" were the ones who masterminded these wars of aggression against muslims/arabs. Same thing with the recent war in Lebanon. Who started it? Da j00z did.

The muslims/arabs have MUCH more credibility than the state of Israel, the Jewish-controlled MSM, or the U.S. Government.

9/11/2006 1:05:19 PM

Quote :

"the fact of the matter is that muslims/arabs were framed for 9/11 "

so who hijacked the planes? the j00z?

9/11/2006 1:08:34 PM

Quote :

"Just because IranUS/MSM/Zionist isn't so pleasant in some respects doesn't mean they can't tell the truth about some issues....specifically the j00ishIslamic state of "Israel."Iran"

I can do that, too.


EVIDENCE THE JOOZ ARE CONTROLLING MY THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS!

[Edited on September 11, 2006 at 1:20 PM. Reason : ]

9/11/2006 1:14:41 PM

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

this needs to be posted again

9/11/2006 1:17:36 PM

Its neat how Iran turned into the last bastion of truth after they said something that salisburyboy agrees with.

9/11/2006 1:21:44 PM

No, da J00z, the jewMedia, and the government...in their infinite wisdom...are the only sources of truth. Anyone who disagrees with them is not only wrong, but borderline insane and a "conspiracy theorist."

9/11/2006 1:26:25 PM

cocaine is a helluva drug

9/11/2006 1:27:06 PM

But by your logic, anyone who disagrees with the 'jewMedia' is automatically right.

That's not logic.

9/11/2006 1:29:36 PM

Quote :

"But by your logic, anyone who disagrees with the 'jewMedia' is automatically right. That's not logic."

No. I never said that. And I don't agree with that. The MSM can tell the truth sometimes. But they also don't tell the truth sometimes.

My main point is that the MSM does not have much credibility when it lies and covers-up the truth on such monumental issues as 9/11, the Iraq War, etc. At least Iran is telling the truth about 9/11, which tells you they have more credibility than Western MSM & governments.

9/11/2006 1:45:11 PM

cocaine is a helluva drug

9/11/2006 1:45:53 PM

So, both lie and tell the truth, depending on the situation?

9/11/2006 1:48:56 PM

Quote :

"The MSM can tell the truth sometimes. But they also don't tell the truth sometimes."

So basically, when they make statements that don't contradict you, they are telling the truth.

However, when they make statements that don't agree with you, they are pushing zionist propoganda?

You remind me of a japanese guy whose autobiography I read. He hid in the mountains on a small island in the Phillipines until 1974 because he didn't believe that WWII was over. The japanese government knew that he was there. The dropped leaflets telling him that the war was over, he saw newspapers telling him that the war was over, he even had friends and family come to the island and tell him that the war was over. However, all of that information conflicted with what he wanted to be true, so he wrote it all off as propoganda and lived by himself in the jungle for 30 years, occasionally emerging to shoot villagers and steal food.

9/11/2006 2:00:04 PM

I hope I don't regret this later...

salisburyboy

Suppose I'm a Pyrrhonist. This means I am a skeptic of everything. God, all governments, law, science, religion, perception, experience, and all descriptions therefrom including my own. Literally, a skeptic of everything. The best you could get me to admit is that some things are more likely than others, not that some things happen (i.e. terrorists kill Americans) and others don't (i.e. American gov't deliberately kills Americans). In other words, I would have no underlying presumptions about our motivations or the motivations of any other group, just the knowledge that the Twin Towers, Pentagon, and a field in PA were hit by something and orchestrated by someone because they were not random.

Let's say then, that I grant you that governments, mainstream media sources, blogs, individuals, and everyone lie and misrepresent facts often.

I'll only ask one question at a time, and will grant you as open a mind as this philosophy allows:

1) How would you go about convincing me that 9/11 was an inside job carried out by the government and Mossad instead of by Osama Bin Laden?

9/11/2006 2:05:53 PM

set that shit up

9/11/2006 2:16:03 PM