This should be a soapbox thread.

Anybody think this is going to have broader scope than just UNC? I mean yea, we dislike the school so we're only talking about UNC here, but I could see this busting the lid off of high revenue college athletics across the country.

I wish this would bring college sports to its knees, but we know it won't. This has been going on for far too long, and there's just too much money involved.

10/24/2014 9:18:48 PM

Quote :

"Anybody think this is going to have broader scope than just UNC? "

no

who's gathering the evidence?

[Edited on October 24, 2014 at 9:39 PM. Reason : /]

10/24/2014 9:39:31 PM

Except this doesn't happen at every school.

Athletes in easy majors, getting extra help from tutors? Yes. That stuff goes on everywhere. But UNC disgraced an entire academic department in the name of athletics. That is not a common thing.

10/24/2014 9:41:59 PM

Also, there's no way the NCAA would ever take it upon themselves to fix academic issues in college sports. That's just gonna lose them a lot of money and make them look worse.

10/24/2014 9:47:58 PM

^^Exatly. I remember having plenty of classes with athletes, but they were real classes. My suitemate had 2 or 3 classes with Rivers. I had a creative writing class that the entire starting O-line was in one semester. Anthony Grundy and Cliff Crawford were in one of my American Lit classes, etc. And we all know about "rocks for jocks" at NC State, right?

I know those guys weren't scholars of the highest magnitude (the creative writing stories were horrendous, but they turned stuff in for peer review and critique every week) but they were in an actual class that met and had assignments. Anthony Grundy was clearly not interested in the material, but he was there and he read the stuff we were supposed to read because he could answer when called on even if it wasn't going to add a lot of depth to the discussion of a short story.

My uncle went to Mizzou with a partial golf scholarship, lived in the athletic dorms for a few semesters and used to take a couple of "basketball player classes" every year to boost his GPA and he used to joke about the year he took "library sciences" with their starting center who proceeded to get a D in that joke of a class.

Easy classes that athletes and advisers know about is one thing, and that does happen everywhere, but creating fake classes and having administrators telling departments what grades to give the players... that's more than a little bit more.

[Edited on October 24, 2014 at 9:51 PM. Reason : cadfasdfsdf]

10/24/2014 9:51:08 PM

So for those of you screaming how racist it was that the AFAM major was the one they fabricated, it wasn't just AFAM

10/24/2014 10:42:53 PM

I dunno about other universities, but NC State doesn't have a problem with fake classes and grade changes.

And we've got the "disgraceful" graduation rate to prove it.

10/24/2014 10:48:53 PM

its quite the exclusive club

10/24/2014 10:52:49 PM

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11758171/roy-williams-addresses-north-carolina-academic-fraud-report

10/25/2014 12:28:31 AM

Quote :

"It's been a pain in the rear end"

Classic Roy

Quote :

"Williams said he made the change his second year at Carolina. "I talked to coach [Joe] Holladay about this, to make sure we don't push anybody in any direction, just make sure that we allow kids to choose their own major," Williams said. "I didn't like the fact that we had so many guys in the same major.""

He was fine with his entire 2009 team majoring in Communications though. But gotta get those 2005 kids out of AFAM, gosh darnit

[Edited on October 25, 2014 at 12:37 AM. Reason : .]

10/25/2014 12:35:23 AM

Even if we take Crowder's earnestness and Nyang’oro's fecklessness at face value, with the number of people involved and the length of time this bullshit was going on, there's no way Ol' Roy and the rest of the athletic department staff and administration didn't know exactly what was happening. If they didn't, they were grossly negligent in not knowing.

The emails make pretty clear that none of this was hidden. With all of the investigations conducted since this began to surface a few years ago, there's absolutely no way the administration was surprised by Wainstein's report. UNC has been lying and obfuscating for at least the past several years. I just can't see any legitimate way the school didn't know what was happening and somehow failed to uncover all of this during the past couple of years.

Something is going to have to give with the NCAA. Throughout the O'Bannon lawsuit, Northwestern's football union, the calls for compensating players, etc. the NCAA has been pushing their narrative of the amateur student-athlete. What's happening at UNC totally undercuts all of that. I'm sure they'll find a way to flush all of this though. Because money.

10/25/2014 1:55:12 AM

^I mean, the real solution here is to treat college sports as the minor-leagues that they are (and have been for quite some time). Don't give the kids scholarships, and pay them for the job that they are being asked to do. Completely divorce the sport from the institution of academia.

The NFL keeps looking to expand their brand to Europe, which is stupid, in my opinion. American Football isn't going to sweep over London and displace soccer any time soon. The NFL would be much wiser, in my opinion, to follow the European Soccer model here in the states rather than try to usurp their market share in Europe. And that would mean the creation of 2nd and 3rd tier professional football leagues that fall underneath the NFL umbrella. Complete with youth academy systems, professional training at a young age, etc. The NBA could EASILY set up this system practically overnight by emphasizing the NBDL. If a highschool kid can go to a university and not get paid, vs. go to the DL and get paid and potentially move up to the NBA? It would be no contest.

Let universities worry about academics, and let professional sport leagues worry about athletes.

But that will never happen. Because money.

10/25/2014 2:09:04 AM

I'd be willing to bet 90% + of the student athletes at UNC who took fake classes never played a minute of professional sports. The "pay the kids, treat it as a minor league" argument doesn't hold much weight to me when a minuscule percentage of athletes actually make it to the pros. The vast majority have to get real jobs, and when the school doesn't give a shit about their education, it's a big problem.

For every moron like Julius Peppers, there are 50 morons who don't see that pro sports payday

[Edited on October 25, 2014 at 2:30 AM. Reason : .]

10/25/2014 2:28:51 AM

^that doesn't change anything. Pay them whatever market rate is for a minor league sport. If they then choose to use that money to pursue an education, that's their prerogative.

If they chose not to do that, then burn-out, and are too fucking stupid to do anything else with their lives, that's on them.

It shouldn't be the universities responsibility to supply athletes with an education if they are unfit to receive one. And the elephant in the room is that MANY universities fool themselves into believing that they are doing these kids a favor by providing them an education, even though there's no way in hell some of these kids are fit to walk on a college campus.


And just for the record, I'm suggesting that athletics are completely de-coupled from the university. As in, completely severed. The university athletic programs dissolved, and minor league sports franchises would take their place (complete with players unions, etc.) It will never happen, but it would solve a lot of issues.

10/25/2014 3:07:23 AM

http://www.nationofblue.com/2014/10/lexington-restaurant-gave-away-unc-degrees-with-each-meal-today/#.VEtccSgpA0N

Quote :

"Bourbon n’ Troulouse, a restaurant in Lexington, gave customers a University of North Carolina degree with each meal purchase today."

Even the Kentucky fan base is loving it!

[Edited on October 25, 2014 at 4:45 AM. Reason : ....]

10/25/2014 4:44:53 AM

I hate Kentucky a little less today.

10/25/2014 7:17:15 AM

lol

10/25/2014 8:55:45 AM

Roy's Presser:

http://northcarolina.scout.com/story/1472786-unc-fayst-roy-williams-postgame

Around 3:40 he talks about he was "dumbfounded" about what came out in the report and hadn't even heard of those so-called "paper-classes" until a couple years ago.

10/25/2014 10:47:06 AM

Quote :

"The NFL would be much wiser, in my opinion, to follow the European Soccer model here in the states rather than try to usurp their market share in Europe. And that would mean the creation of 2nd and 3rd tier professional football leagues that fall underneath the NFL umbrella. Complete with youth academy systems, professional training at a young age, etc."

Why would the NFL want to pay for something they currently get for free?

There used to be minor league football in this country. I'm talking before the USFLs of the world came into existence. They all went out of business. NFL did run a minor league not that long ago, it was NFL Europe. The league doesn't exist anymore and the developmental aspect of it that was intended did not work because coaches if they wanted to develop a player wanted the player to be on his team at practice to learn his system, not in Stuttgart learning some other coach's system. It's one reason an NFL-ran AAA baseball-type system can't work.

10/25/2014 11:12:11 AM

ya know wat i see happening from this is.....

you will see an even bigger push to just make student athletes paid employees instead of students. there has already been a call for it, so now it will be even louder.

10/25/2014 11:12:42 AM

^ then completely dissolve the notion of university sport and have these guys be on minor league football teams where they are no longer students of the university

my idea I've posted in the past if people want to pay students:

Quote :

""-The college football program is a club independent of the university whose costs are fully covered by boosters, ticket sales, sponsorship, and such, whether university wants to help or not is their choice. -This club pays a license fee to use the university name (that should be worth huge money, Tuscaloosa Elephants: 14 fans show up, Alabama Crimson Tide: sells out Bryant-Denny). -This club pays rent to use the university stadium in cases where university owns said stadium. -This club covers the football players' room and board including school, if the club wants to pay the players money on top of that, they can. -Said club no longer has tax exemption for generated revenues and donations to college sports are not tax deductible. -No more bullcrap with academics since the university receives the same money either way. If the player goes to school and puts in no effort, he flunks out. If the player goes to school and puts in effort, he gets a degree. College football is a taxing outside activity, but the player having to juggle football with school and no outside help makes the football player no different than a guy in the marching band for instance. I play rugby union on my own time for free and have to juggle that with having a job and getting my Master's Degree as well. So can a 20-year-old football player. -Club personnel costs covered by boosters and such in aforementioned club and they can fire at will. The personnel are no longer university employees.""

[Edited on October 25, 2014 at 11:19 AM. Reason : /]

10/25/2014 11:17:22 AM

I would love some of this shit to go to trial (either criminal or civil) and people get caught lying under oath.

10/25/2014 11:17:56 AM

Warms the cockles of my heart
http://www.tmz.com/2014/10/25/al-sharpton-unc-scandal-black-people-donald-sterling/

10/25/2014 11:19:51 AM

^

Quote :

" Of course, UNC is all over the news after a probe into alleged academic fraud at the university revealed rampant academic fraud ... specifically in the African and Afro-American Studies department that allegedly resulted in higher grades for athletes. "

how is this alleged? the data's right there in the report, we can even go back and look at Julius Peppers' transcript if they want

[Edited on October 25, 2014 at 11:26 AM. Reason : /]

10/25/2014 11:23:19 AM

I mean, its TMZ who cares. I was referring to the video.

10/25/2014 11:26:00 AM

In terms of paying college athletes, would Title IX force all athletes to get paid the same amount?

10/25/2014 11:33:30 AM

hey, y'all, no one cares about your sixteen point plans to turn college sports into minor leagues. we're here to talk about carolina getting hit w/ LOIC.

10/25/2014 11:46:44 AM

Man, I can't help but think that not a damn thing is gonna come out of this besides "time served" or some pointless probation.

10/25/2014 1:19:57 PM

Thank you, simonn. Take that shit to another thread.

10/25/2014 1:45:13 PM

I think Wolfpack Nation* has done its job. Now it is left to the NCAA to hammer UNC


*- Dan Kane is part of WPN obviously

10/25/2014 1:50:54 PM

^^

10/25/2014 2:06:34 PM

How about move your gay ass minor league shit to another thread

YEA. SUCK ON THAT ONE.

10/25/2014 2:19:50 PM

Quote :

"we're here to talk about carolina getting hit w/ LOIC."

What on earth makes you think the NCAA possess a pair of balls to do a relevant punishment?

10/25/2014 5:15:43 PM

it's either that or fold as an organization.

10/25/2014 5:21:11 PM

^which could just as conceivably happen. Hence the talk about minor leagues.


This is our concern, dude.

10/25/2014 5:28:24 PM

^lolz. That BL reference really cracked me up for some reason.

But srsly, I think this is a make or break opty for the NCAA. At some point schools are gonna say fuck it, we'll test the odds the NCAA won't do shit. Unless they bring the death penalty on UNC. With all the talk about the amateurism issue, and all the money at stake for folding, they really must act decisively. Ther are too many eyes on this now.

10/25/2014 6:09:26 PM

^^ you're nuts if you think the ncaa is going to voluntarily go away.

10/25/2014 6:24:03 PM

Ncaa will hammer unc. But i expect basketball to remain unscathed.

10/25/2014 7:54:45 PM

Basketball and Roy Williams came out of this report looking about as good as they could've hoped. Aside from a good chunk of bball players taking paper classes, there wasn't much in the emails and stuff proving direct knowledge of the paper classes by the bball coaches.

Now...we aren't stupid. Obviously Roy and the staff knew these courses were there. But they weren't stupid enough to have university emails saying so.

10/25/2014 7:58:35 PM

^ yeah, IMO I think Roy very much knew what was going on, but I have to give him some credit for two things: 1) he had the foresight to see the kind of shit that could/would happen, and 2) he likely communicated shit verbally rather than electronically

as the old saying goes, it's only cheating if you get caught

10/25/2014 9:01:15 PM

Maybe someone recorded conversations?

10/25/2014 10:02:50 PM

Highly unlikely unfortunately...

10/25/2014 10:05:48 PM

Quote :

"I don't even know how to turn on the computer, let alone do the email or online"

--Roy Williams*

[Edited on October 25, 2014 at 10:24 PM. Reason : *in my imagination]

10/25/2014 10:24:19 PM

I like to imagine Roy Williams as a Stringer Bell character. He always turns on xerox machines when talking in person and never communicates over the phone. Then he takes Econ classes at night.

Quote :

" you're nuts if you think the ncaa is going to voluntarily go away."

Of course I don't think this. I do, however, think that colleges may consider leaving the NCAA. The current amateur student-athlete business model is antiquated and I really don't see it lasting much longer. It's basically being held together by force right now. I'll keep my eye on the Northwestern players union, because I could see that being the scratching force that unravels this paper-ball. And having universities get caught with bogus departments could really add to the NCAA's unwinding, in my opinion.

10/25/2014 10:36:49 PM

I now like Al Sharpton and the funny/ironic part is that it will be random shit like him bringing that up on his own that will result in action being taken by the NCAA.

10/25/2014 11:16:33 PM

Quote :

"So for those of you screaming how racist it was that the AFAM major was the one they fabricated, it wasn't just AFAM "

This should get far more attention. It suggests that the fraud may have reached much farther and into other departments. I know it won't get much play, but I would just love for UNC to have this dirt going on in a department other than AFAM, despite their pleas that it was isolated to AFAM; it'd be even better if we then find out that CURRENT athletes are flocking to those classes.

10/26/2014 12:48:51 AM

I'm picturing Roy as Paulie in Goodfellas.. never talks to anyone, just associates. They never call from the house, they have to go across the street to a payphone.

10/26/2014 12:53:11 AM

Roy was in a year for contempt and he had this wonderful system for doing the BBs. He used a razor and he used to make em so thin that it would liquefy in the BB gun with just a little oil. It was a very good system.

10/26/2014 1:22:33 AM

Medium rare.

Hmm.. An aristocrat!

10/26/2014 1:26:47 AM

The scandal made it to Weekend Update on SNL last night. The joke was something like "When asked about the scandal, the UNC athletes said it was "ungood" and "distrue"". Or something like that, I don't remember exactly.

10/26/2014 10:18:28 AM