In the spirit of this thread, I will buy a Michael Jackson CD

5/31/2006 7:46:36 PM

What I do know about the case is that they're innocent. That's really all I do need to know about it.

Quote :

"talk about it more when you've been a lawyer for more than a few years. "

talk about it while you're kissing my ass, undergrad

5/31/2006 7:58:19 PM

so you're admitting that your opinion is entirely based on personal opinion? cool. that's all wanted to hear.

5/31/2006 8:04:08 PM

Whatever you say. I have not explained my position enough on here already, so feel free to mischaracterize my position as it pleases you to do.

5/31/2006 8:05:46 PM

point me to your support. you're just dodging that you don't have any real support outside of opinions and what the media has told you.

added:

and where have i mischaracterized your opinion? all i've said is that you don't have support. and you haven't shown me any. you guys keep trying to put words in my mouth, but really all i'm saying is that none of you (either side) have any real leg to stand on, because you don't know the facts well enough to make an informed decision.

[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 8:08 PM. Reason : aefa]

5/31/2006 8:06:45 PM

The media reports the facts. I really doubt that they just make things up off the top of their heads. Dan Rather has retired, you know.

5/31/2006 8:07:43 PM

no, but they can report information that is supplied to them, which may be skewed in one direction or another.

just look at coverage over the "debate in scientific circles over <insert hot-button topic over evolution, global warming, etc>. There is no such thing as "objective media." i would assume you're aware of this.

5/31/2006 8:10:43 PM

The media has direct access to all the court documents - I don't believe that there are any under seal at this time?

This, however, is not a thread for debate. This is a very simple thread - if you want to buy a t-shirt to support the innocent Duke boys, then buy it from this group. If you don't, then stfu. I am having a hard time seeing what could be clearer?

[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 8:15 PM. Reason : add]

5/31/2006 8:14:24 PM

there are sealed documents. i've read that in numerous news articles. hold on. i'll find one.

5/31/2006 8:19:54 PM

no need - the fact is that there is no evidence in this case; that the only evidence points toward innocent, not toward guilt. That is all; there is nothing else. If there were anything else it would be included in the documents.

Quote :

"there are sealed documents. i've read that in numerous news articles. hold on. i'll find one."

whoa whoa... did you just use "I've read that in numerous news articles" as a reasoning for your statement? How come you get your boxers in bunch then when you say I do it?

Quote :

"This, however, is not a thread for debate. This is a very simple thread - if you want to buy a t-shirt to support the innocent Duke boys, then buy it from this group. If you don't, then stfu. I am having a hard time seeing what could be clearer?"

[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 8:24 PM. Reason : woe to ye, ye hypocrite...]

5/31/2006 8:21:53 PM

Quote :

"WHEN WILL ALL THE EVIDENCE BE REVEALED? State law requires prosecutors to turn over all of their case files to defense lawyers, but nothing requires the evidence to be turned over to the public. In open court hearings, lawyers often discuss some of the evidence, but the state's case may not be revealed until trial. No trial dates have been set. When a report on the DNA testing is complete, Nifong is required by law to turn it over to all 46 members of the lacrosse team who submitted DNA samples."

from http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/439797.html

5/31/2006 8:24:29 PM

So.. 1) there are no documents under seal, as you said, and 2) you are quoting from a news article to show me why I should not base my decisions on what I know from the media. Are these fair assessments of your post?

Quote :

"This, however, is not a thread for debate. This is a very simple thread - if you want to buy a t-shirt to support the innocent Duke boys, then buy it from this group. If you don't, then stfu. I am having a hard time seeing what could be clearer?"

5/31/2006 8:26:06 PM

Quote :

"whoa whoa... did you just use "I've read that in numerous news articles" as a reasoning for your statement? How come you get your boxers in bunch then when you say I do it?"

you're not even quoting the articles you're basing your opinion on. i just have shown one.

PLUS, there's not much wiggle room for press when it comes to whether or not some documents are sealed. either they are or they aren't. in this case, some of the documents are sealed.

5/31/2006 8:26:50 PM

show me. your statement did not show that any documents are under seal.

The only sealed documents there have been in this case were the indictments that were handed up to the Superior Court. Indictments are always sealed before execution. They are no longer sealed.

and judging from the tenor of your comments I highly doubt that your objection was that I did not provide links to my articles. Your objection seemed to be that I was basing my judgments partly on what I know from the media coverage. But then you turn forth and do the same thing. What is the meaning of this?

Quote :

"This, however, is not a thread for debate. This is a very simple thread - if you want to buy a t-shirt to support the innocent Duke boys, then buy it from this group. If you don't, then stfu. I am having a hard time seeing what could be clearer?"

[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 8:30 PM. Reason : !]

5/31/2006 8:28:08 PM

you haven't even presented ANY support for your arguments outside of a wolfweb post. i have nothing to argue against here.

i can accept if you argue my points with some sort of facts, but when it's jsut YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE I SAY SO. and oh yeah NO DEBATING IN THIS THREAD. it gets really stupid and old.

5/31/2006 8:29:42 PM

i'll concede the sealed documents. i honestly don't THAT much about this case. but to pretend you know enough evidence to decide innocence or guilt is what has driven me. you have shown no support for your opinion.

5/31/2006 8:30:57 PM

the facts are there is no dna match, one of the accused people was not even there at the time, one of them was supposedly raping the girl while he talked on the phone with his gf, the girl failed to identify her "attacker" the first time, and then suddenly remember "Oh yeah, it's him.. sort of. If only he had a mustache...", and that the girl has a history of making false rape reports.

Those are the facts. And of course you can't argue against them - which is what I'm saying. CLEARLY INNOCENT.

Quote :

"This, however, is not a thread for debate. This is a very simple thread - if you want to buy a t-shirt to support the innocent Duke boys, then buy it from this group. If you don't, then stfu. I am having a hard time seeing what could be clearer?"

[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 8:33 PM. Reason : if nifong is full of shit then the jury must acquit]

5/31/2006 8:32:18 PM

there are plenty of people who have been found guilty in a court of law who have claimed alibis that were false. how do you know that they're not just covering their tracks? also, i read somewhere else on this site (may be false information i know) that said that most sexual assault and rape cases don't show conclusive dna matches when tested anyway.

there i just argued against them. see: it's possible.

also:

Quote :

"and that the girl has a history of making false rape reports. "

i've read of her claiming three men raped her when she was 14, and that they weren't charged. you should know that that doesn't mean that she wasn't raped. it just means that she couldn't prove it.

[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 8:36 PM. Reason : asd]

5/31/2006 8:35:02 PM

you did not raise arguments, you raised speculation. It is speculatively possible that this guy was raping this woman in a car while talking to his girlfriend on the telephone, ordering at cook out, and using the atm, and did not leave any DNA at all, that through a miracle of human cloning three men suddenly became 20 men, then merged back into 3, and that before the rape one of them suddenly grew a mustache (testosterone flood I guess?) and then shaved it off immediately afterwards, and the other man raped the girl from miles away using his bionic 3 mile long penis...

however, there comes a point where these conjectures become more and more outlandish, unto the point where I am comfortable concluding that they are...

CLEARLY INNOCENT.

[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 8:40 PM. Reason : clearly innocent]

5/31/2006 8:39:23 PM

or maybe the timeline is wrong.

5/31/2006 8:40:03 PM

when talking about criminal charges, "maybes" dont cut it. In any case, you have not responded to any of the other things. It is the COMBINATION of these things that lead me to conclude that the accused are...

CLEARLY INNOCENT.

Quote :

"i've read of her claiming three men raped her when she was 14, and that they weren't charged."

You've READ? in the MEDIA??

Shame on you!

Quote :

"This, however, is not a thread for debate. This is a very simple thread - if you want to buy a t-shirt to support the innocent Duke boys, then buy it from this group. If you don't, then stfu. I am having a hard time seeing what could be clearer?"

[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 8:44 PM. Reason : add]

[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 8:44 PM. Reason : add]

5/31/2006 8:42:47 PM

Wolfpack2K posted this in the main thread too, but I wanted to make sure it got read.


If you are planning to purchase a Duke Lacrosse t-shirt, please hold off for a few days. Friends of Duke Lacrosse is having t-shirts printed up and will be selling them in order to help raise money for legal defense.


I think it would be much better to buy from them - not only do you get a t-shirt, you get to contribute to their legal fund and you get to also avoid lining the pockets of profiteers who are out to make money from what is happening to these men.


Wolfpack2K will keep us updated on when the t-shirts become available for purchase. Thanks everyone.

5/31/2006 8:59:31 PM

Quote :

"talk about it while you're kissing my ass, undergrad"

wow, your money was well spent on law school. nice one, counselor

5/31/2006 9:04:53 PM

^^ Thank you.

[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 9:58 PM. Reason : add]

5/31/2006 9:58:32 PM

Quote :

"Smath74 All American 68907 Posts user info edit post being found guilty or not guilty is not the same as doing it or not doing it. it's clear they didn't do it. if they are found guilty, it will be a failing of our court system. "

i blame some of the short comings of our court system to attorneys attacking people personally/using speculation instead of making a case from actual evidence.

5/31/2006 10:58:02 PM

wolfpack2k, i'm not charging anyone with a crime. you can't seem to get that through your skull. i'm just saying that you don't know nearly as much as you think you do. there could be far more to this case than has been presented. you are not privy to all the information that is out there.

6/1/2006 12:32:07 AM

SHUTTHEFUCKUPITSFUNTOTAKESIDESITMAKESMYLIFELESSMEANINGLESS

6/1/2006 12:36:27 AM

Wolfpack2K posted this in the main thread too, but I wanted to make sure it got read.


If you are planning to purchase a Duke Lacrosse t-shirt, please hold off for a few days. Friends of Duke Lacrosse is having t-shirts printed up and will be selling them in order to help raise money for legal defense.


I think it would be much better to buy from them - not only do you get a t-shirt, you get to contribute to their legal fund and you get to also avoid lining the pockets of profiteers who are out to make money from what is happening to these men.


Wolfpack2K will keep us updated on when the t-shirts become available for purchase. Thanks everyone.

6/1/2006 1:05:58 AM

glad to see you're able back up your position. so tell me how i can shell my money to support these people who are so obviously innocent, oh great 1

6/1/2006 1:11:05 AM

any news on the friends of duke lacrosse shirts wolfpack2k?

6/1/2006 1:23:13 AM

None right now - though I do know that they are selling wristbands, Livestrong style. The bands say "Innocent!" and have the numbers of the players on them. $3 each, minimum order of 10. I just ordered 10, and I only have 2 wrists, so if you'd like one I'd be glad to sell you one for the $3 I paid for it.

Any of you who are interested in ordering 10 (or more) of your own, PM me and I will send you the order form.

6/1/2006 2:38:43 AM

i dont think you have two wrists. I havent been presented with enough evidence to be convinced that you have two wrists. I mean hell, for all we know, you could be some wierdo with three.

6/1/2006 9:43:22 AM

I guess you just have to go on what the media reports. And that is not nearly enough information. I mean, the media can only report what I tell them, and why in the world would I make a press release saying "I have three wrists". So under sarijoul's reasoning, that may very well be true, you have no way to know how many wrists I have.

But I do have about 5 wristbands available (at least in 2 to 3 weeks when they arrive) if anyone wants them.

6/1/2006 1:43:41 PM

Can I get 4 shirts and 4 wristbands?

6/1/2006 4:38:39 PM

6/1/2006 5:53:26 PM

ahahahahaa

6/1/2006 5:55:21 PM

^^^ You can have 4 wristbands, when I get them. I'll let you know about shirts when they become available.

6/1/2006 5:57:59 PM

ahahahahaah

[Edited on June 1, 2006 at 6:31 PM. Reason : ewrqwerqwerqwrqwer]

6/1/2006 6:31:37 PM

Quote :

"None right now - though I do know that they are selling wristbands, Livestrong style. The bands say "Innocent!" and have the numbers of the players on them. $3 each, minimum order of 10. I just ordered 10, and I only have 2 wrists, so if you'd like one I'd be glad to sell you one for the $3 I paid for it. Any of you who are interested in ordering 10 (or more) of your own, PM me and I will send you the order form."

Wow. I hate to break it to you buddy, but if I ever had wanted to buy one of these items, you unabashedly removed any possibility of that. I'm sure the Duke players thank you.

Not to mention, if this is all about supporting the Duke players' defense fund, why are you charging $3 for the wristband? The players got their $3...but you'd rather have that fashionable Dukie attire, huh?

6/1/2006 7:04:59 PM

I don't care who you buy them from - if you want to buy an order of 10, I'll be glad to email you the order form.

Quote :

"sarijoul All American 2571 Posts user info edit post ahahahahaa "

You say that you have not already proclaimed these men guilty in your own mind, but then you laugh at shit like that?? That's the thing about lying - you need to be consistent, otherwise you get exposed.

6/1/2006 7:22:57 PM

i think its a racist joke....it might not help the cause but its funny as hell, shit most white males would likely agree that its better to fuck a goat than a nasty ass black stripper that whores herself out for money...i mean that is an abomination, its not even a funny joke to talk about doing a black stripper.

6/1/2006 10:35:14 PM

I'd buy one of these.

6/1/2006 11:03:21 PM

Quote :

"You say that you have not already proclaimed these men guilty in your own mind, but then you laugh at shit like that?? That's the thing about lying - you need to be consistent, otherwise you get exposed."

it's funny because there are lots of racist bastards like icanread. and because it's fucking funny.

6/1/2006 11:13:47 PM

its funny because blacks arent real people.

6/2/2006 1:36:07 AM

i wonder how much money this 'tshirt and wristband' scheme will generate? $500, maybe $1,000...shoot, lets say $5,000....thats a far cry from what would be needed to pay for their defense. i'm sure your going to say 'every little bit helps', but come on...who's to say that the money isn't going in your pocket?

6/2/2006 7:54:58 AM

sticking it to the man: priceless

6/2/2006 8:09:37 AM

I still think he has 3 arms

6/2/2006 2:38:57 PM

I thougt this thread was about shirts.

6/2/2006 3:27:34 PM

It is, but shirts are currently "on their way", so right now it is about armbands, which folks can order from Friends of Duke Lacrosse, $3 each, minimum order of 10. I will let everyone know when the shirts become available.

6/2/2006 3:30:24 PM

^^^ so he didn't kill helen kimble

6/2/2006 4:39:56 PM