of course.

10/6/2006 10:23:40 AM

notice the changes to neteller's terms and conditions:

Quote :

"15.6 IN NO EVENT SHALL NETELLER OR ITS AFFILIATES, SUBSIDIARIES, AGENTS OR SUBCONTRACTORS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, PUNITIVE, EXEMPLARY OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, WHETHER BASED ON NEGLIGENCE, WILFUL MISCONDUCT, TORT, CONTRACT (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION FUNDAMENTAL BREACH OR BREACH OF A FUNDAMENTAL TERM) OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LAW, OR FOR ANY DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF DATA, LOSS OF INCOME, FAILURE TO REALIZE EXPECTED REVENUES OR SAVINGS, LOSS OF PROFITS OR ANY ECONOMIC OR PECUNIARY LOSS. "

Quote :

"17.2 These Terms of Use shall be governed by the laws of the Isle of Man. All disputes arising out of or relating to these Terms of Use shall be resolved by the Courts of the Isle of Man, except where Isle of Man legislation requires a specific dispute to be resolved by the courts of another jurisdiction. "

interesting.

10/6/2006 11:41:25 AM

^what exactly does that mean?

i just need to know if I can take my money out of pokerroom.com and deposit it to either firepay or neteller

10/6/2006 11:50:38 AM

Now, im no lawyer, but if im reading the inferences there correctly, NT is basically saying

"we are not under US jurisdiction, we ain't changin' shit"

however, they covered their asses in case someone else gets in trouble they arent liable.

10/6/2006 11:54:40 AM

The Isle of Man don't fuck around.



[Edited on October 6, 2006 at 4:58 PM. Reason : .]

10/6/2006 4:56:43 PM

LOL

10/7/2006 1:37:16 PM

got my email from cdpoker today saying my account was being closed. what a bunch of fucking pricks we have in washington

10/9/2006 8:13:40 AM

i was reading about the isle of man a while back for some reason (CAUSE IM SO SMRT). they dont tax corporations and they give bigtime incentives to 'banks' for doing business there. they also have the worlds longest underwater power cord!!!1

10/9/2006 8:28:24 AM

I didn't read the entire thread because I don't have a dog in the fight, so I don't know if this has been posted or not.

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20061006.html

I wonder how much validity there is in the link to terrorism he mentions in the article.

Quote :

"Is the end here really worth the effort? The United States already has strict, even draconian, controls over fund transfers that might potentially be used to pay for terrorist activity. Buy a house or open a brokerage account and see how deep an interest the bank takes in where the heck your money is coming from. Now it is proposed that they apply the same diligence to transactions as small as one dollar. This is ridiculous, not just because it is an unwarranted invasion of privacy, not just because we as consumers will ultimately have to pay for the cost of snitching on ourselves, but because the system of regulation ultimately won't work. With an Internet gambling market approaching $20 billion per year, there is a huge incentive for new enterprises to spring into being specifically to get around this law. Frankly, it ought to be easy. Just off the top of my head I can think of several possible approaches to subverting this new law. Working within the banking system it might be possible to aggregate payments to make their individual origins less obvious, especially if the aggregation involves some non-gambling money. Remember, these restrictions are being placed on the U.S. banks, not their foreign counterparts, so any bank in the Caymans or on the Isle of Man ought to be able to chug through such aggregated payments without violating any local laws. Another option, since intrastate gambling is authorized, is to make interstate and international gambling debts effectively local by creating thousands of local virtual bookies. All of these are old school ideas that don't even need technology to implement. What if we bring to bear the capabilities of Web 2.0 and create payment mashups by the dozen Ð little PayPals that rise and set like the Sun? Any random group of 535 nerds is smarter than the 535 members of the U.S. Congress and able to circumvent ANY regulation if there is enough profit incentive to do so. Well the U.S. Congress has just created such an incentive where there was none before. And once these various payment schemes start appearing, what's to say some of them can't be equally used to finance terrorism? Of course they can be used for that purpose. Thanks a lot Senator Frist. Here's a law that purports to end Internet gambling but will instead enable it, a law that is intended to make certain types of financial transactions harder to do but will ultimately make them easier, a law that says nothing about terrorism but will ultimately abet it, making us all less secure in the process. There is, to my knowledge, no center for Al-Qaida hacking, nor is terrorism as an industry big enough to attract much third-party software development. But ally the interests of terrorists and Internet gamblers who all want to be paid, that's a $20 billion incentive to corrupt the world financial system -- an incentive that didn't exist before last week. And what will be our institutional response to these obvious flaws when they come to light? More regulation of course! More scrutiny of financial transactions, not less. But as we've seen in recent years, this greater scrutiny often comes with lax or unequal enforcement, depending on your campaign contributions. Once again, Congress is proposing to regulate something it ought not to -- something that in any practical sense is probably beyond its power. And the result will be only bad, not good. And Congress's response will probably be even more regulation, not less. And all this to push one man's presidential ambitions? There ought to be a law against THAT."

The new GOP and big government, here to stay.

10/9/2006 10:46:24 AM

I need to re-register as an independent.

The GOP ain't doing it for me anymore.

and this has little to do with this law.

And to stay on topic, fuck the GOP for passing this law as well.

10/9/2006 10:52:36 AM

is anyone still playing?

i still refuse to buy out totally but I did cashout a nice sum of money

10/9/2006 11:58:23 AM

yes, I played last night

10/9/2006 1:02:20 PM

Yeah I still play too (and I live in Washington ) I do notice a lot less players from the US, but there still is a significant chunk.

10/9/2006 2:06:00 PM

party poker seems to be keeping their business up still.....a lot of people were on last night playing

10/9/2006 3:42:53 PM

i'm still playing on absolute, no problems yet

10/9/2006 6:30:16 PM

Anyone see the new front page of party today?

Titan just e-mailed to say they were cutting off US players.

10/9/2006 10:43:10 PM

and it begins...

10/9/2006 11:18:26 PM

Fuck iPoker. I will miss the cryptos and party though


For those of you talking about cashing out your rolls, I wouldn't. Nothing has really changed from the players perspective(aside for the inconvienience caused by sites closing down). Once the future poker landscape becomes more clear you may regret cashing out(because it will be a pain in the balls to get it back online). I'd say that scenario is much more likely than sites stealing your money. I still have 10k online with no plans of cashing out or quitting any time soon.

10/10/2006 3:39:37 PM

so if you forsee having problems getting it on,

a.) how you gonna get it out
b.) how are the fish gonna keep putting it on, or are you accepting a degredation of game quality

10/10/2006 3:45:05 PM

1) Good question. I've been thinking about my neteller card lately, and they probably could make it so that it doesn't work on any US ATMs. Not much I can do except wait and see what alternative solutions appear.

2) Game quality has been going down at a steady pace since I've been playing. Hopefully some largely euro networks will keep allowing US players, I've done fine against their fish.

10/10/2006 3:51:09 PM

Quote :

"1) Good question. I've been thinking about my neteller card lately, and they probably could make it so that it doesn't work on any US ATMs. Not much I can do except wait and see what alternative solutions appear. "

unless they dissassociate (sp) with STAR, that wont happen.

10/10/2006 3:53:33 PM

no idea how all that works, but it seems like something the government could probably control.. as opposed to our actual play

10/10/2006 3:55:12 PM

but NT has plenty of legitmate uses


remember, under the patriot act, the gubberment could already access your NT accounts........


and it aint like its not blantantly described where the money flows to/from.

10/10/2006 3:57:03 PM

*fingers in ears and eyes closed* the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling

10/10/2006 4:00:34 PM

I'm actually more concerned over a letter i got from the IRS at my previous residence over the weekend.

AHH CHRIST, NOT AGAIN

10/10/2006 4:02:01 PM

i registered on ultimatebet last night and made a deposit through neteller with no problems.

10/10/2006 4:17:07 PM

First ban it, driving the value of offshore sites into the ground. Then the US companies buy them for cheap, and launch a lobbying effort to get it legalized.

Multiple representatives get their pockets lined, big casino execs get richer, Americans get what they want all along. You gotta love this place.

http://techdirt.com/articles/20061010/174247.shtml

10/11/2006 11:02:45 AM

i got a letter from firepay today saying that they no longer will accept money from gambling sites

10/11/2006 11:25:41 AM

Quote :

"and it begins..."

10/11/2006 1:39:13 PM

Quote :

"DOW JONES NEWSWIRES October 11, 2006 12:31 p.m. A Neteller PLC executive said the British company, which handles payments for online gambling companies and others, will continue to operate in the U.S., despite the recent passage of antigambling legislation. "We are staying in the U.S.," said Bruce Elliott, Neteller's executive vice president, marketing and sales, told a online gambling conference in Barcelona. "I don't think we have a very big problem."... "

*fingers crossed*

10/11/2006 1:54:22 PM

my first post in this thread, though i've been keeping up with all of it. it really is bullshit.
if you're intelligent enough to have your own bank account, then i sincerely doubt you're going to waste all your money on a game you have no idea how to play.
i've always thought of state lotteries as a stupidity tax. who are the majority of the ppl who play them? fucking imbred degenerates who make money from cock fights or from robbing liquor stores.

lil video about the asshole bigwigs who decided this bill was a good idea....

http://youtubepoker.blogspot.com/2006/10/truth-behind-online-gambling-ban.html#links

10/14/2006 2:40:31 AM

http://techdirt.com/articles/20061020/083354.shtml

10/22/2006 10:38:41 PM

Quote :

"Gambling IS illegal"

only when the govt can't make $ texas off of it.
notice we have the most profitable form of gambling (for the state) legalized here
The Lottery

Btw imho gambling is illegal because the rich folk suck at it and know they can be easily separated from there money by someone with any knowledge of what they're doing (at least at the poker table).

and rather than taking advantage of this situation and taxing the game somehow, they decide to outlaw it.

stupid bastards...


btw... the stock market is 10x the gamble a poker table is.

[Edited on October 23, 2006 at 7:11 AM. Reason : .]

10/23/2006 7:10:18 AM

Quote :

"btw... the stock market is 10x the gamble a poker table is."

You must be really good at poker or fucking horrible at investing.

10/23/2006 7:41:12 AM

hahaha yeah i'm actually decent at both..

My point is... you cannot control when you lose money in the stock market... the thing could crash cause of any natural disaster.

but at poker you should always have a good idea of what your chances are and if you want to risk them. Basically know your "pot odds" at all times which you cannot do in the stock market.

10/23/2006 11:04:11 AM

Quote :

"My point is... you cannot control when you lose money in the stock market... the thing could crash cause of any natural disaster."

No, but you can minimize risk by diversifying.

Poker is the same way. You can minimize risk and keep your standard deviation/variance low, but the retard with the inside straight draw will still hit every now and then.

10/23/2006 11:48:29 AM

what's wrong with a gutshot?

10/23/2006 11:54:56 AM

Quote :

"hahaha yeah i'm actually decent at both.. My point is... you cannot control when you lose money in the stock market... the thing could crash cause of any natural disaster. but at poker you should always have a good idea of what your chances are and if you want to risk them. Basically know your "pot odds" at all times which you cannot do in the stock market."

I fail to see how you are decent at both when you can't make connections correctly between the two to arrive at a proper analogy that can characterize the two in a similar light.

10/23/2006 12:01:03 PM

Quote :

"btw... the stock market is 10x the gamble a poker table is."

Quote :

"You must be really good at poker or fucking horrible at investing."

I wouldn't say the market is a gamble. With a diversified portfolio, you should be earning at least the market average, around 10%. Warren Buffet is 30-40%? In poker, I'm sure all the players here have made at least 1000% on their investment. Poker isn't a game of chance, but it is more of a gamble than the long-term market. But higher risk yields higher return. Also, poker requires a lot of mouse clicking. And it's pretty damn stressful sometimes.

[Edited on October 23, 2006 at 12:09 PM. Reason : ^ there are security measures now that prevent the stock market from crashing]

10/23/2006 12:07:58 PM

from 3 days ago:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_news/article/3348

[Edited on October 23, 2006 at 12:18 PM. Reason : doyle's thoughts: http://youtubepoker.blogspot.com/2006/10/doyle-on-fox.html#links]

10/23/2006 12:16:59 PM

so much for a fucking FREE country. Apparently i can not even play online poker with my hard earned money b.c gambling is bad. yet somehow the lottery is "OK", which is pretty much the state ripping people off for a chance at winning big $$$.

i have always beleived that the ban on victimless crimes is bullshit

[Edited on October 23, 2006 at 12:27 PM. Reason : k]

10/23/2006 12:26:24 PM

the big wigs added the bill to protect kids from gambling addiction.
doyle mentioned that poker is better for kids than porn or drug-use at clubs.
i agree with the club part.

it's funny how nobody says someone is addicted to playing football or basketball.
poker is just another sport, where skill is important.
if these parents were so worried about their kid sucking at poker, then they'd stop giving him his weekly allowance.

[Edited on October 23, 2006 at 12:32 PM. Reason : so fucking stupid.]

10/23/2006 12:31:29 PM

^^^see it is ok if the US makes money off of gambling but the second someone else is, gambling is illegal blah blah blah

10/23/2006 12:43:21 PM

Quote :

"what's wrong with a gutshot?"

Nothing at all if you like the variance to be in the hundred of bbs

10/23/2006 12:49:23 PM

there are some statements in this thread that dont make any damn sense.

10/23/2006 1:03:36 PM

well, even monkeys can find a blind squirrel's nut

10/23/2006 1:05:24 PM

10/23/2006 2:21:35 PM

bttt for gk2004

1/23/2008 11:25:51 AM

For whom?

1/23/2008 12:19:46 PM

It sucks they banned online poker. I miss being able to play online

1/23/2008 1:45:09 PM