so he should lead by example then

2/28/2007 1:57:03 PM

Quote :

"I find it funny/sad that so many people are turning a blind eye to what has been made a political issue"

Isn't every issue of national/global importance, political?

Quote :

"too bad he's telling the average folks how they should live while he does as he pleases since he can afford to pay his "pollution money""

He is retrofitting his house with solar panels.

What more can he do other than a complete upside-downing of his life?

Typically, when someone does this sort of thing in order to push a cause, they end up getting labeled a nut or a whack job just the same.

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 1:59 PM. Reason : a]

2/28/2007 1:57:10 PM

well, for the most part enviromentalism in one form or another has been embraced by everyone

2/28/2007 1:58:08 PM

in a very loose usage of "one form or another"

2/28/2007 1:59:35 PM

yeah, because non-liberals hate the planet

whatever

2/28/2007 2:00:33 PM

i traded in my hummer for an expedition

2/28/2007 2:00:51 PM

good for you


unless it was a diesel

Quote :

"I hope you're all driving late model cars also I'd hate to think you're polluting the enviroment when you could just buy a newer car with better emissions"

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 2:03 PM. Reason : trade your old cars in for new ones TODAY]

2/28/2007 2:01:21 PM

Quote :

"He is retrofitting his house with solar panels. What more can he do "

well it depends if he wants people to quickly realize he is a hypocrite looking for money or if he wants to be viewed as someone who will go without some of the luxuries in life to show he truly believes in his cause

but he NEEDS a 20,000 sf house...he NEEDS a heated pool...he NEEDS these things so when he entertains Hollywood actors and alternative fuel CEOs he can make a good impression

2/28/2007 2:02:12 PM

hey, he uses a lot of energy

at least he's attempting to offset his carbon foot-print in one way or another

that's a lot more than 99% of the country can say they're doing

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 2:05 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2007 2:04:42 PM

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/naive

When you grow up, Twista, you'll understand.

2/28/2007 2:06:15 PM

put your money where your mouth is lefties


trade in your older car and truck and buy a new one NOW if you really care about pollution

2/28/2007 2:07:11 PM

Gore's never been especially absolutist about such things.

Do what you can.

That was the message at the end of the movie.

2/28/2007 2:09:00 PM

^^didn't you just say:

Quote :

"well, for the most part enviromentalism in one form or another has been embraced by everyone"

stop trolling, man

2/28/2007 2:10:03 PM

no, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy

I'm not trying to troll at all


if this issue means so much to you then you should have no problem updating to a newer vehicle that produces less emissions... which if Gore had his way you wouldn't have a choice


I think i do my fair share for the enviroment btw, probably more than any of you arguing for Al Gore here(was mentioned in the other thread and no one said shit)

2/28/2007 2:12:43 PM

Quote :

"Gore's never been especially absolutist about such things. Do what you can. That was the message at the end of the movie."

none of the people getting their panties all wadded up have seen the movie

2/28/2007 2:13:58 PM

I'm naive because I think Gore should do more given the position he's in? How's that again?

Some people look at Gore as the Jesus of the environmental responsibility revolution...yet it should just be OK that he spends and pollutes as he does, because he's rich and hey, at least he's doing SOMETHING

Well shit I recycled a 12 oz Dr. Pepper can today at work, at least I'm doing something, right?

2/28/2007 2:13:58 PM

Quote :

"I think i do my fair share for the enviroment btw, probably more than any of you arguing for Al Gore here(was mentioned in the other thread and no one said shit)"

I'd throw you a party, but the energy consumption involved would kill Mother Earth.

2/28/2007 2:14:26 PM

But as long as you tell people about global warming at that party, at least you're doing SOMETHING

2/28/2007 2:15:17 PM

^x7 . . .or you'll all die a horrible death!



DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 2:17 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2007 2:15:57 PM

Quote :

"put your money where your mouth is lefties trade in your older car and truck and buy a new one NOW if you really care about pollution"

I'm not sure why you conflate us debating about Gore being a hypocrite or not (or to what level of hypocrisy) with us being hard core green advocates to the extent that we would completely change our lifestyle to a greener lifestyle.

You do realize a lot of the people here are college kids, right?

2/28/2007 2:15:58 PM

something > nothing

2/28/2007 2:16:32 PM

what gore's doing given the power/voice he has on this issue to so many people ~= nothing

2/28/2007 2:18:29 PM

Nope, if you don't live in a mud hut you should just kill yourself.

2/28/2007 2:19:01 PM

^ no but he should practice what he preaches instead of "buying off" his pollution

Quote :

"I'd throw you a party, but the energy consumption involved would kill Mother Earth. "

I'd prefer you just did something to make this world a better place for my future family

Quote :

"I'm not sure why you conflate us debating about Gore being a hypocrite or not (or to what level of hypocrisy) with us being hard core green advocates to the extent that we would completely change our lifestyle to a greener lifestyle. You do realize a lot of the people here are college kids, right?"

yeah, I'm not trying to call anyone out, but the point about buying a new car seems relevant, Gore would have everyone of us buying new smart cars today if he could (while he pays his pollution money to do as he pleases).

I know most people here are colelge kids, but if they cannot see the BULLSHIT (as Penn and Teller would say) then they are blinded by their hero

like I said, it's the only earth we have, we have to protect it, but I refuse to let the government have more power in dictating what I do, when I do, and how I do things on that level

most smart conscious people on both sides of the aisle will do things to help the earth

as for this issue, no company or corporation is going to do a damn thing until it's economically feasable

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 2:22 PM. Reason : ...]

2/28/2007 2:21:36 PM

Quote :

"I'd prefer you just did something to make this world a better place for my future family"

Well, I don't go to parties...

2/28/2007 2:22:46 PM

Quote :

"what gore's doing given the power/voice he has on this issue to so many people ~= nothing"

youre right, its a mud hut or nothing
you cant argue with that logic, i guess im gonna go start to make some mud bricks

2/28/2007 2:22:51 PM

^x6 Are you assuming that because some of us disagree with Gore and the other global warming alarmists that we do "nothing" for the environment? I don't know about you, but I don't shit where I eat.

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2007 2:23:13 PM

no, you're assuming fuckface, get out of here. you add nothing, ever.

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 2:26 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2007 2:24:27 PM

Quote :

"as for this issue, no company or corporation is going to do a damn thing until it's economically feasable"

I just don't get how you can say this in one breath and then complain about the government trying to enforce it on the other hand.

A very real reality is, we destroy the Earth before the free market has a chance to fix it.

I agree that I don't like the government mucking around where they don't have to, but not nearly enough people are going to be interested in paying extra money to protect against such scenarios as a raped and pillaged Earth of disrepair.

2/28/2007 2:25:33 PM

The concept behind these CO2 credits is that he purchases someone elses CO2 credits that they don't need. If I understand the topic correctly, the CO2 credit is basically a tax on how much CO2 you emit. And the money you pay is given to individuals who don't consume their "share" of the credits.

A little behind this:

Quote :

"Here's how TerraPass does it. Suppose you own a 2005 Jaguar XKR convertible and that your trips back and forth to the golf course amount to 10,000 miles per year. According to the TerraPass web site, this means that you're using about 513 gallons and emitting 10,036 pounds of CO2 every year. Now for the good news. If you pay $49.95 for a Standard TerraPass, the company promises to take your money and pay other folks to reduce their CO2 emissions by an equivalent amount; offsetting all your CO2 emissions -- and they'll send you a bumper sticker to boot!"

Introducing, the Al Gore diet.

You can preach about dieting and how dieting is good for your body. I want to go on this Al Gore diet. Except I don't have to actually reduce my eating. No, I want a steak, a baked potato, and a side of Pig rinds for breakfast lunch and dinner. This is ok, under the Al Gore diet. But you have to pay to take someone else's food.

I eat. You starve. This is the Al Gore diet.

And the same applies to his lax participation in "reducing" his CO2 emissions.

2/28/2007 2:26:35 PM

Eh, tech might advance enough to counter the environmental damage.

At least for the First World.

And once we get good virtual reality, who gives a damn about the planet?

2/28/2007 2:27:13 PM

^^ God forbid if you are sick you go to a medical doctor that is overweight and maybe smokes for help.

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 2:28 PM. Reason : a]

2/28/2007 2:28:06 PM

^that makes no sense.

2/28/2007 2:29:02 PM

^x6

Quote :

"no, you're assuming fuckface, get out of here. you add nothing, ever."

Right, asslick. I started a 15-page thread on this subject already. PWNT! STFU!

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 2:30 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2007 2:30:26 PM

case in point

2/28/2007 2:31:03 PM

Quote :

""As for now, theres no incentive to reduce carbon emissions. Free market environmentalism might be the answer.""

But it would require a true free market. Point source polluters such as coal fired power plants have no economic incentive to not abuse the public atmospheric commons. As the costs for the pollution in terms of health costs, economic and social effects are currently born by society at large, it will always be more cost effective to do nothing.

If the government would stop subsidizing the costs of the negative externalities and place the actual market costs upon the producer, then they will be forced to remove their pollutants from their emissions or find a less costly way of disposing of it. The industries opposed to this system claim that the free market will fix this problem, but they do not want to participate in the free market because they are disposing of their by-products for no cost. If you want a free market solution, then you have to have a free market where industry is not dependent on a societal or governmental subsidy.

2/28/2007 2:31:14 PM

Quote :

"Right, asslick. I started a 15-page thread on this subject already. PWNT! STFU!"

started and contributed are two vastly different things.

2/28/2007 2:33:30 PM

^^^ You posted multiple times in my Gore thread, too, dumbass.

^ I contributed plenty--you just didn't like it.

V Usually, it's when I'm attacked first.

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 2:39 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2007 2:33:48 PM

but you resort to calling people asslicks and dumbasses.

2/28/2007 2:35:24 PM

Quote :

"The concept behind these CO2 credits is that he purchases someone elses CO2 credits that they don't need. If I understand the topic correctly, the CO2 credit is basically a tax on how much CO2 you emit. And the money you pay is given to individuals who don't consume their "share" of the credits."

you are getting terrapass mixed up with the emissions market that many companies use to trade their "shares" of emissions. he isnt stealing anyone elses food, he is giving money for offsetting technologies.

your starving analogy doesnt work

2/28/2007 2:35:56 PM

Quote :

"your starving analogy doesnt work"

Too bad, 'coz it's a good sound byte.

2/28/2007 2:37:52 PM

Then the idea behind carbon credits doesn't work.

If there isn't a finite pool of these credits, then people can just shell out money to pollute more... with no control. How is this helping the planet?

I am correct... polluters are purchasing other people's unused credits.

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 2:42 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2007 2:38:43 PM

the point of the passes is that the money is used on technologies that offset your greenhouse gas footprint, so no one is "starving"

the purpose of a limit on credits for corporations to trade is that it creates an economic solution. The companies that want the credits will have to pay more for them, and over time the number of credits will be reduced.

you are confused because you are trying to mix togethor two different things

2/28/2007 2:51:41 PM

Quote :
"A carbon offset is a service that tries to reduce the net carbon emissions of individuals or organizations indirectly, through proxies who reduce their emissions and/or increase their absorption of greenhouse gases.[1] A wide variety of offset actions are available; tree planting is the most common. Renewable energy and energy conservation offsets are also popular, including emissions trading credits."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset

Also, there are companies that produce wind power, solar power, etc, and sell credits to compensate that much green power to offset your non-green power use. In other words, if your own power source is coal, you pay a set amount per kwh of energy you used in coal to pay for someone else's use of a green power source.

2/28/2007 2:57:05 PM

How many trees would Gore have to plan to offset the emissions from his jet?



That just sounds like a completely retarded idea.

2/28/2007 4:04:44 PM

its basically a tax on pollution...but it doesnt prevent the pollution or really try to except for the threat of having to pay to pollute...plus the tree planting and other forms of "counterbalancing" the co2 budget are flawed...they simply try to remove as much co2 as your company emits...for one thing you cant accurately quantify it, but more importantly is the regional aspect...if TWW Incorporated has factories in Raleigh that emit a certain amount of co2, and they pay to have an approximately equivalent amount of co2-absorbing trees, those trees wont be planted in Raleigh...they will be planted on some land owned by the sequestering company and won't have any environmental impact on the air in Raleigh...theres not much air pollution in Canada...there is a lot of air pollution in many dense cities...how does planting trees in Canada affect the local air in a dense city?<]

2/28/2007 4:26:02 PM

that entire idea sounds like a kid in kindergarten made it up. It sounds retarded.

2/28/2007 4:27:21 PM

Quote :

"If you pay $49.95 for a Standard TerraPass, the company promises to take your money and pay other folks to reduce their CO2 emissions by an equivalent amount"

That shit sounds like a scam. I would imagine that there's some collusion going on.

2/28/2007 4:30:33 PM

Quote :

" That shit Global warming sounds like a scam. I would imagine that there's some collusion going on."

2/28/2007 4:34:11 PM

If so, it's one hell of a scam.

You gotta give it that.

2/28/2007 4:36:22 PM