I've never been in the market for a simple mp3 player like the ipod.

Maybe i should just suck it up and learn how to write apps for windows mobile. Then maybe I'll have a device that does what I want.

If sharing was a feature im sure jobs would have mentioned it. When someone posted that he made some jab at the zune saying "hurr we done used the wifi gooder" I though it meant a better way to share music. Not some pointless web browser and itunes store.

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 4:00 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 3:57:43 PM

I think to run a device like this, with the battery-hungry screen, wifi etc etc takes too much power to be run of a HDD. You'd probably get REAL shitty battery life. So I think Flash was a necessity, for battery's sake.

I think 32GB chips are just too expensive at this point to make it feasible.

It's too bad... I think this will really hurt the sales. A lot of people are unhappy bout this.

9/5/2007 3:59:03 PM

the ipod is successful b/c of their design, not storage.

they already have a hard drive based player, it's called the ipod classic, why make two ipods with hard drive based storage? it's called strategic marketing.

Quote :

"successful != great design i mean windows is everyhwere, but there are better OS's out there"

one is a choice, the other isn't.

Quote :

"it's simple - they screwed the pooch by going for thin instead of capacity in my and other people's opinion. "

uh, no they didn't, they have the ipod classic. the complainers out there are only complaining because they want the touch screen w/ a hard drive

flash is the most obvious choice here, a VAST MAJORITY of people buy the ipod b/c of design, not storage

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 4:04 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 3:59:08 PM

Quote :

"want the touch screen w/ a hard drive"

9/5/2007 4:07:56 PM

damnit

i just bought a 4 gb Ipod off Apple like last week for $149 now they have a new one for the same price with more features that holds more


wonder if i can send it back

9/5/2007 4:10:09 PM

don't be an asshat

apple could have made it thicker and included twice the flash memory

but they made it retardedly thin

i will most likely buy a classic...but I would have easily spent double that on a decent capacity touch

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 4:17 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 4:17:12 PM

i'm sure steve jobs will be crying himself to sleep tonight over all the missed business from people who wanted large capacity and touch

his pillow will be soaked for sure

9/5/2007 4:22:19 PM

think the old nano armbands and stuff will work with the new one??

are the specs any different?


pisses me off though, bout the time i settle in and buy an ipod they get a new one.

im sending it back though and gettin the new red edition 8 gig.

should be plenty for me all tho the touch would be nice, just too big for running

9/5/2007 4:27:13 PM

Quote :

"apple could have made it thicker and included twice the flash memory"

isn't there a huge cost issue with mass amounts of flash based memory?

if not, give me 32-40 gigs and im a happy guy. I can be selective if i need to be...id rather not but i can.

9/5/2007 4:31:44 PM

Quote :

"they already have a hard drive three flash based player, it's called the ipod classic nano/shuffle/iphone, why make two four ipods with hard drive flash based storage? it's called strategic marketing."

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 4:37 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 4:35:34 PM

Because they want to move away from harddrives for the most part. They do require a bit more in-warranty repair.

9/5/2007 4:41:47 PM

Quote :

"Please be advised that Apple announced new iPods on September 5, 2007. These new iPods are not eligible for the Back to School promotion. Rebate claims submitted in conjunction with these products will not be honored."

9/5/2007 4:46:03 PM

no discount on their educational store either (if that's what you were talking about)

9/5/2007 5:16:42 PM

jesus christ, you guys are some whiny fuckers.

if you don't want it, don't fucking buy it!

But to claim that Jobs/Apple has majorly fucked up or screwed the pooch or whatever is absurd. Given this iPod+iPhone lineup, this will probably the most successful (most sales & most revenue) next 6 months at Apple, ever.

If you want bigger capacity, just chill out and wait. Doubling the storage in a 16GB Touch would barely have made a difference, if any, in size or thickness (i.e. it's not so thin because they skimped on storage), but the cost difference is great. In the next year, you can almost bet there will be a 32GB flash version, and guess what - it will probably be 1mm thinner than the current 16GB version!


----
not to mention:
1) i don't recall anyone complaining about how thin the Nano is. in fact, everyone seems to be pretty damn happy with it
2) i do recall people complaining about how thick the iPod Classics are, even though the 5th Gen is pretty good, especially compared to 4G and lower.

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 5:35 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 5:32:36 PM

a few pages back but

Quote :

"so stupid, i mean come on dude it has to be flash based to make it that small, and i have 8gb and it's plenty, omg you must be that person that thinks they need all 400,000 songs in their music collection with them at ALL times.. i'd glady sacrifice size for speed, wifi, touch capabilities... not to mention a 32gb flash based device would be insanely priced"

if i cant fit every song i have on my ipod, it defeats the entire purpose of getting an ipod for me. if im ever in the car and want to listen to a certain artist or cd that is not on my ipod, then that is several hundred dollars down the drain that accomplished little over a well organized cd collection.

i understand your point, but people get them for different reasons, and believe it or not, many people get them for the same reason i did.

9/5/2007 5:38:04 PM

^^i concur

^but there are 2 ipods now, the touch is obviously the different bread... the ipod classic is exactly what you want, but people are complaining because the classic doesn't have touchscreen

people are trying to complain about the "lack of this" of the ipod touch when they're really just complaining about the "lack of this" of the ipod classic

1.8" hard drives are 5mm-8mm thick
flash based storage can be as thick as 1-2mm

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 5:44 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 5:42:36 PM

the classic doesn't have a big enough screen or the battery life to really be a video player either.
i think my digital camera has a bigger screen.



[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 5:44 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 5:43:37 PM

^different resolution tho i gather...

9/5/2007 5:47:02 PM

Quote :

"If you want bigger capacity, just chill out and wait"

My problem is I'm sick of waiting. Literally 20 months ago they started talking about this wonderful new ipod that would have a touch screen and be widescreen and suck you off and be the greatest invention in the whole world. I made this thread almost one full year ago stating:

Quote :

"Speculation is that the touchscreen video iPod might be 2.5 hours away. "

So you can imagine with all the buildup/hype/and personal disapointment that I felt from the overpricing/2 year commitment issues with the iphone, I really wanted this to be EXACTLY what I wanted. even if it meant paying more than I'm willing to pay, it would be nice to have the options for more storage space. Apple's finally made a product that's so close to what I (and judging by the reactions here, I'm not the only one) really want, but they fell short in a few important ways.

Do I think Apple will fail because of this? not at all. Will they still sell a billion of these new iPods? of course they will. Do I think they personally care what El Nachó wants. Not a chance in hell. But from my personal standpoint, I'm just so tired of playing this waiting game to get exactly what I want. Of course I could wait another 6 months or a year for the new revision. But it's getting old and frustrating. So that's why you're getting so much of the bitching and complaining.

9/5/2007 5:47:25 PM

spoken for the truth...

i know its not as elegant but the archos 605 series can have flash wifi touch screen and a battery that will last long enough to actually watch a movie with it. but you won't want to run with it.


seriously though a 32gig flash touch screen ipod would be sick.

9/5/2007 5:51:10 PM

where's the goddamn picture of the waaaaaahmbulance when you need it

9/5/2007 5:51:40 PM

^^seriously, archos has always been ahead of the game, the only thing it's missing is the apple name and UI/ID design

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 5:54 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 5:53:59 PM

do we need to do some basic economics here?

for most products, you have to balance the following three items:
1) Low Cost
2) Speed (time to market)
3) Quality
This is pretty much true across all industries. You can excel, at best, in two of those places and remain competitive.

Apply the same principle to creating an MP3 player. The factors are this (among others):
1) Large storage size
2) Long battery life
3) Small physical size
4) Large/expansive UI (big screen)
5) Cost
You simply can't have all 4 of those factors in a single device. It's impossible. Now as time goes on, we can have devices that get better at each factor, but there will always be tradeoffs. The existing iPod lineup has made the following tradeoffs, at varying magnitudes (denoted by + and -):

Shuffle: 1--, 2++, 3++, 4--, 5++
Nano: 1-, 2+, 3+, 4-, 5+
Classic: 1++, 2-, 3-, 4+, 5-
Touch: 1+, 2-, 3-, 4++, 5--

Now this is contrived and off the top of my head, but can you see how tradeoff have to be made?

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 5:59 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 5:56:52 PM

Quote :

"where's the goddamn picture of the waaaaaahmbulance when you need it"

I couldn't find it, but here's a picture I picked out just for you.

9/5/2007 5:58:24 PM

^^^ yeah i had an archos hd based mp3 player way before any others even existed. (that i knew of)

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 5:59 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 5:59:17 PM

good retort

WAAAAAAAHHHH APPLE WON'T CREATE THE PERFECT PRODUCT FOR ME!!!!!!

9/5/2007 6:00:02 PM

I would have to agree with a lot of people wanting more capacity. It really depends on how you use your ipod as to what capacity you need. For the majority of people who use it to walk to class or are constantly updating their Ipod then maybe 16gb is enough. I just can't see it though.

I use my Ipod for my music collection in my car rather then hauling around CD's. I have 6000 songs in there (much of it is crap that I could clean out), but I rip my favorites at lossless because you can tell the difference when playing on a nice stereo. I also keep videos of TV shows and movies for when I travel. The screen is small but is acceptable when sitting crammed in a coach seat but I would like it to be larger to view when I am in the airport lobbies. If you are ripping a DVD movie to a decent quality for even on an Ipod screen you are talking 500mb. For anyone that travels a lot, you know that laptops aren't good options for watching movies because on an international flight you might get one movie done before the battery wears out and the laptop takes up so much space on your tray. An Ipod works great because you can buy cheap battery extenders and already the last a long time for video.

There are other options out there, but none of them have the accessories that the Ipod has. I would pay 600 dollars for an Ipod Touch that had 60~100gb.

Prospero said many times that people don't buy Ipods for capacity but for design. Part of the design is that the Ipod design has always improved without sacrificing functionality until now.

I can only hope that the memory capacity is expanded in the next 6 months but I doubt it.

9/5/2007 6:05:25 PM

i'm not saying i wouldn't take more storage if it was given, but for my needs and how i use an mp3 player, 16gb is good enough for me along with a majority of people (but i'm not too keen on 8gb or less to be quite honest) but the design and other features are enough to make me overlook the storage

FWIW, the classic & touch aren't too far off from one another:

Quote :

"classic: Playback time (80GB model) * Music playback time: Up to 30 hours when fully charged * Video playback time: Up to 5 hours when fully charged Size and weight * 80GB model o Height: 4.1 inches (103.5 mm) o Width: 2.4 inches (61.8 mm) o Depth: 0.41 inch (10.5 mm) o Weight: 4.9 ounces (140 grams) Touch: Playback time * Music playback time: Up to 22 hours when fully charged * Video playback time: Up to 5 hours when fully charged Size and weight * Height: 4.3 inches (110 mm) * Width: 2.4 inches (61.8 mm) * Depth: 0.31 inch (8 mm) * Weight: 4.2 ounces (120 grams)"

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 6:11 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 6:11:06 PM

Extremely compelling updates. iphone versus ipod touch is going to be a tough decision.

It's also obvious that Apple looked at its market research and picked what sizes would appeal to the vast majority of its users. Thus, the outliers have nothing to do but whine.

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 6:22 PM. Reason : sdf]

9/5/2007 6:20:03 PM

Guys, I've got a great idea.

Lets start pushing the iPod as a video player too, while ramping up the storage constantly, so people have room to store the video we sell to them. Sure they have to watch them on a tiny screen, but who cares.

Then, lets make a new model and take the screen and make it as large as we possibly can on the device. People will really want to watch videos on it then!

Then, lets cut the hard drive size so that our top of the line special new iPod has 1/10 the hard drive space of our new classic iPod.

BRILLIANT!

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 6:32 PM. Reason : Just to clarify, I couldn't honestly care less]

9/5/2007 6:27:31 PM

Quote :

"Part of the design is that the Ipod design has always improved without sacrificing functionality until now. "

that's just not true.
Like I said before, the entire iPod game over the past 5-6 years is about tradeoffs. When they introduced the Mini, the Nano, and the Shuffle, each of them took a step back from its predecessor in terms of functionality (UI and storage), but made up for it in size. Successive generations of each line has gradually increased the functionality though, to close the gap back to the main iPod (bigger storage, better screen, or just smaller size).

The Touch is just another line that has to start somewhere. They took the iPod Classic, expanded the screen, gave it touchscreen, gave it wifi and a browser, and had to scale back on the storage because flash is the only option to keep a decent battery life. As time goes on, the Touch will continue to gain more features, get smaller, get better battery, and get bigger storage.

Until then, you'll have to be happy with the Classic.

9/5/2007 6:29:07 PM

God damn maybe I'm just getting old and senile, but has TechTalk always been this whiney?

9/5/2007 6:30:32 PM

Hello and welcome to the wolf web

9/5/2007 6:48:16 PM

Hello and welcome to the wolf web a thread about apple

9/5/2007 6:49:57 PM

^^ Yeah I think I'm just getting senile.

9/5/2007 6:53:11 PM

if it's not storage it's something else, this pretty much happens everytime apple comes out with something, then it goes on to sell millions.

9/5/2007 7:00:03 PM

Quote :

"I think to run a device like this, with the battery-hungry screen, wifi etc etc takes too much power to be run of a HDD. You'd probably get REAL shitty battery life. So I think Flash was a necessity, for battery's sake."

bingo

swapping new songs and videos is faster than recharging

9/5/2007 7:14:51 PM

Also, lower failure rates.

9/5/2007 7:17:32 PM

I bet 80% if iPod customers don't have music libraries exceeding 10GB anyway.

9/5/2007 7:34:00 PM

mine exceeded that before napster was shut down
(still mostly rips then just using napster for a timeline)

9/5/2007 7:43:38 PM

Now all it needs is GPS and bluetooth and I would totally buy one. I'd even spend like $500-600.

9/5/2007 7:46:09 PM

i want one that vibrates when it senses i'm horny

9/5/2007 7:56:13 PM

Quote :

"i want one that vibrates when it senses i'm horny"

But will it store more than 16 GB????

Actually the complaint about that model would be that everytime you see someone who makes you hot all the shit in your pocket will rattle.

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 8:13 PM. Reason : ]

9/5/2007 8:09:26 PM

hahahaha

all i know is i got a 4 gig flash card in my damned phone... i paid 32 bucks for it brand new from zip zoom fly you'd think they could fit 8 of them in this ipod..

9/5/2007 10:34:29 PM

Quote :

"swapping new songs and videos is faster than recharging "

You can only swap songs and videos at one place. When I am doing that I am already charging. I can charge anywhere in the world.

9/5/2007 10:35:46 PM

^^ I think that's probably a very different grade of flash memory in terms of longevity.

9/5/2007 10:47:51 PM

i'm sure it is

i know a 32gb ssd is pretty big but c'mon i mean you get what 70 charges out of the battery before having to swap it out anyway... or something like that.

9/5/2007 10:53:57 PM

Since I charge my mini almost every day and it's about 2 years old... I'd say 70 is lowballing it a bit.

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 11:07 PM. Reason : ]

9/5/2007 11:06:43 PM

^by a lot. I charge my iphone and my ipod before it whenever i'm home, it just sits in the cradle.

9/5/2007 11:08:01 PM

hahaha numbers backwards 400 cycles.... $70 replacement

9/5/2007 11:11:33 PM