I'm in the minority of people that think our team sucks and Sidney has tried just about everything but he can't overcome our suckitude at guard and lack of athletic ability at the 1-4 positions....regardless of "chemistry" issues.



Edit:---by lack of athletic ability I'm not really including fells, but he should be guarding the other teams 3, not their 1 or 2. That statement was really just for rebounding/defensive purposes.

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 3:25 PM. Reason : ]

3/18/2008 3:22:53 PM

^I agree, although I think it has more to do with our PG play than the 2-4's.....the same group did more than OK when Atsur was in last year.

3/18/2008 3:26:34 PM

Atsur could guard the other teams 1 or 2 usually. He wasn't athletic, but he was a really good defender with quick hands. That takes pressure off the guys guarding 2-5 because the other teams point guard has more trouble getting the play started with a guy like atsur on him.

3/18/2008 3:28:59 PM

^^ there is very obviously more to it than just losing atsur. at least in costner's case.

3/18/2008 3:29:53 PM

Costner became our Sean May, but, dare I say it, without the talent.

3/18/2008 3:32:07 PM

^^^I think the thing we missed most from him is his overall basketball savvy. he wasn't the best at anything, but he knew the game, and made good decisions.

^^you are correct about that.


[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 3:33 PM. Reason : .]

3/18/2008 3:33:07 PM

every player drafted in the first round is EXPECTED to be an impact. jj was EXPACTED to be an impact. JJ is EXPECTED to be an impact. maybe he will. maybe he won't. maybe he will end up in the dl in 2 years. maybe he will be an allstar. thats the nba draft.

3/18/2008 3:47:04 PM

EXPACTED

literally.

3/18/2008 3:47:50 PM

^hahaha

3/18/2008 3:51:14 PM

it's EXPACTED that he will VICTOR the NBA.

3/18/2008 3:51:56 PM

Haha.. I love how even the dude with 11 posts knows this piece of shit is Earl...

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 3:54 PM. Reason : jj should stay if the projections are correct...]

3/18/2008 3:52:48 PM

an article about next season....very true

http://scooterandhum.blogspot.com/2008/03/rebuilding-pack-is-tall-task-but-far.html

3/18/2008 8:07:30 PM

great article actually

3/18/2008 8:17:00 PM

^^ really good article...


mentions Costner leaving? I think that'd be a shame...if he smartens up in the offseason and starts working hard he can be a star like he was his freshman year

3/18/2008 8:23:20 PM

reads like one of you fuckers wrote it... trying too damn hard to point out that State hasnt always sucked, reeks of desperation

3/18/2008 8:40:26 PM

really good read

3/18/2008 8:49:16 PM

troll troll troll, just a trolling along

3/18/2008 8:56:21 PM

Hey, Jaybee1200 is trolling again

3/18/2008 8:56:45 PM

^^^^ But Jaybee, I thought you were a State fan too? Doesn't that automatically make you part of the lunatic fringe?

3/18/2008 9:00:31 PM

The idea of Javi & Degand playing in the backcourt, moving Fells to 3 is TERRIBLE!!! That would be the worst ACC backcourt I've ever seen. Neither one of those two is aggressive enough our good enough shooters to be a 2.

I like Mays, but he isn't the caliber recruit who is going to come in and contribute right away likely...

3/18/2008 9:01:18 PM

^ What would you have him do? This year we suffered from a glaring lack of athleticism and bad shooting. At least that line-up would somewhat address the glaring lack of athleticism. And Gonzalez and Degand aren't as bad shooters as you make them out to be.

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 9:07 PM. Reason : asdf]

3/18/2008 9:07:34 PM

Quote :

"Neither one of those two is aggressive enough our good enough shooters to be a 2."

better than having fells not show up for half of the games

3/18/2008 9:14:27 PM

Anything but that. We know Degand is going to run point and Javi would get KILLED defensively at the 2... just destroyed. He is undersized for a PG at this level really even... I can't even imagine how bad it would be at the 2. On top of that he can't get his own shot... Fells needs to play 2, period. It's good thing some numbnuts on a blog is suggesting this and not Sidney, because I'd think he officially lost it if he did...

I'd go with Degand, Fells, Costner, McCauley, Smith... no true C but that is what we'll be looking at next year to start if Hickson leaves.

^ Yeah, ok. A 6'0", non aggressive, can't get his own shot two guard. Brilliant. God... have you guys ever watched an ACC game? Fells defensive contributions alone, even on games he disappears offensively, is better than what anyone else on the roster could bring at that position.

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 9:17 PM. Reason : x]

3/18/2008 9:15:49 PM

Quote :

"The idea of Javi & Degand playing in the backcourt, moving Fells to 3 is TERRIBLE!!! That would be the worst ACC backcourt I've ever seen. "

Worst ACC backcourt you've ever seen. Did you watch us play this season?

Quote :

"Neither one of those two is aggressive enough our good enough shooters to be a 2."

So you're saying our best 3pt shooter needs to play 2? Degand shot a much higher 3pt % than Fells did this season.

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 9:32 PM. Reason : a]

3/18/2008 9:30:42 PM

:sigh:

I need to be studying for finals right now, not educating TWW really... Ok, just kidding (well not about needing to be studying), but seriously... if you think Javi is a good idea at the 2 you are out of your mind.

Degand might be our best % outside shooter but that is only because he took 16 shots! Fells took 140. And we need Farnold to be our starting point regardless...

All I'm saying is the bloggers idea to have a backcourt of Javi and Farnold is not a good one. In fact, it would be a disaster on the defensive side of the ball.

V part of the reason we were overmatched athletically is BECAUSE of Javi! How would moving him to a position where he is drastically undersized and can't get his own shot help that?!?! Basically it would mean not having our most athletically talented big man (Tracy Smith) be on the court as much, because we know Big Ben is going to be started.

As far as Farnold not being our starting PG... I can't imagine any scenario he won't be unless it's health related. I liked the way Javi played down the stretch... he plays really hard and you can't help but root for a guy that does that... but the fact is he isn't an ACC-caliber starting PG. Degand was MUCH better at getting the paint and distributing and made better decisions.

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 9:43 PM. Reason : typo.. last edit.. gotta study now]

3/18/2008 9:38:02 PM

^ I've watched quite a few ACC games. Have you? If you did, maybe you noticed how athletically overmatched we were at nearly every position on the court. That lineup you suggested would do nothing to remedy that.

And I'm not absolutely sold that Degand will come back and be the starter at point. He was ok, but nothing to make me think the job is automatically his. I wouldn't mind Sid trying him at the 2.

And you say Degand isn't aggressive enough to be a 2? Did you see the kid with the ball? There were a couple of times he outran the ball (he was dribbling) down court. I don't think he suffers from a lack of aggression. More like a lack of control. Something that can't be lacking in a quality point guard.

And I thought Fells would ball out at the 3 before I read this dude's blog. He's terrible with the ball in his hands trying to pass it down low, and he doesn't look for his shot/create his own shot enough to be an effective 2. I think he would create match-up problems for any 3 trying to guard him, and he's athletic/long enough not to have the same problem at the defensive end.

3/18/2008 9:38:30 PM

This issue is a non-issue. The best 5 will be Javi, Fells, Costner, Smith and McCauley until Costner says he's gone and no longer a Wolfpacker.

3/18/2008 9:57:04 PM

Quote :

"pttyndal All American 12693 Posts user info edit post troll troll troll, just a trolling along 3/18/2008 8:56:21 PM Ernie All American 23211 Posts user info edit post Hey, Jaybee1200 is trolling again 3/18/2008 8:56:45 PM statered All American 1135 Posts user info edit post ^^^^ But Jaybee, I thought you were a State fan too? Doesn't that automatically make you part of the lunatic fringe? "

not at all... to people that know their bball history you dont have to force feed them the past, they know already... to those that dont know it, they are obviously not informed fans of college bball, so they should be beneath you

if some idiot was like "alabama is shit, they havent won a championship in years" then I would just

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 10:24 PM. Reason : d]

3/18/2008 10:22:10 PM

gad so much stupidy in this thread

Quote :

"Syracuse incorporated Carmello pretty well,"

oh, ya think? ya think they were happy with that NC??

Quote :

"All I know is we won more games without him than with him"

as you say, that is oversimplifying things

Quote :

"plus we are getting the inverse of gavin grant next year which will really help us cutdown on turnovers."

look, i have been as hard on grant as anyone over the years. but if you think losing him will be a positive, you are out of your mind.

Quote :

"I don't know. Ask Roy Williams, Coach K, Jim Calhoun, Jim Boeheim, Rick Barnes, et al. They seem to do it quite often."

as was said, there is a large diff b/w a strong program bringing in a 1-and-done. for programs like that, a 1-and-done player can provide the spark to get to a NC. worst case would be they fall short, the player leaves and the cupboard is restocked the next year. players like this are rarely made the center of the team from their first day on campus. GT is really the only program i can think of that has had a large number of one-and-dones and isnt really a great program. and it takes a rare talent to come in and immediately be the bmoc, we're talking melo, durant, oden...not hickson. and i'm not actually sure how ofter boeheim does it.

Quote :

"hey see NC State as a great place to prepare their game for the next level and eventually, "

but as people try to tell you later in this thread, hicksons season and potential draft position won't show that, at least not in a way that is positive to nc state. it will show players, "hey if you come here, even if we already had a somewhat promising team i will immediately hand you the reigns whether you are ready or not. essentially, i will let you use the season as a year long nba tryout."

jj came in a middle round talent and is leaving as middle round talent, that is hardly an example of "developing nba talent"

and sure, that attitude might bring more players, but not the kind of players that win games.

Quote :

"etter question: would we have been better had we never recruited Brandon Costner?"

say what yo will about costner's reactions to his reduced playing time, but he has played far better on a far larger stage than hickson ever has.

Quote :

"And to answer the question as to whether it was worth our time to get him for a year, its a stupid question. JJ was the best player on the floor this year. "

jj may have been the most talented player with the most potential on the floor, but he wasnt consistently the best player on the floor, at least not against real competition. in acc play, hickson led the team in turnover by a wide margin and only led the team in scoring twice. not to mention that he would disappear for entire games.

Quote :

"If getting JJ means Costner and McCauley turn into little bitches and complain about PT, then fuck them. "

sure, mccauley and especially costner could have had better reactions to their demotions, but in the case of costner, if you had just finished carrying your team to the acc tourney finals and clearly establishing yourself as a talented player, how would you feel if your status as the offensive focus was taken away by a player who hadnt played a single minute of college basketball yet? as for mccauley, all he had ever shown the previous two years was hustle and bball iq. even this year, look at his game winning play against gt, he was just crossing half court when grant put that shot up and he still ended up with the put back dunk. now your coach just hands your starting spot away on a silver platter. i mean think about those two things, how would most players react??

sorry to mention he who must not be named, but this was one of the things about sendek that could be frustrating but that i really respected: nobody EVER was just given playing time, you had to earn it. scoot came in as a hs aa and set the bench for 2.5 years b/c he didnt have the defensive skills and hustle that sendek demanded. hodge was one of our most anticipated recruits ever and he had to EARN his playing time. for the love of god, the man didnt play a contributing play in tim wells on senior night!

Quote :

"JJ hasn't opened his mouth all year. He played hard, he didn't quit, and he got better as the season went on."

of course he hasnt opened his fucking mouth all year. wtf is he gonna complain about?? "damnit coach, why do you keep leaning on me when i am clearly not ready to be the centerpiece of an acc offense?!?!?!"

as for "he got better as the season went on"...did he really?

Quote :

"f recruiting a guy like JJ hurts your other players ego's, then tell your other players not to come back"

sorry buddy, but it is part of a coach's job to handle team chemistry. happy players win games.

Quote :

"ts as simple as that. I'm not gonna let two guys who led us to 5-11 in the ACC get their ego's in the way of my team and my career."

yes and 1 of those two guys put the team on his back and carried them to the acc tournament finals. the guy who replace them led us to a last place finish and a first round bounce and a losing record.

it was clearly the right move for his team and career.

Quote :

"'m sick of hearing people that are happy JJ is leaving so we can get Costner and Ben back to their old form."

who the fuck has said that?? i think nc state fans are universally hoping jj comes back.

Quote :

"If JJ was that kid that came in and let his attitude tear apart this team, then fuck him."

see you are focusing on the player, not the team. nobody is saying FUCK JJ HICKSON HE MADE OUR TEAM SUCK.

Quote :

"And you say Degand isn't aggressive enough to be a 2? Did you see the kid with the ball? There were a couple of times he outran the ball (he was dribbling) down court."

haha

flying down the court and outrunning the ball isnt aggressiveness, it is recklessness. besides, nym clearly meant aggresively attacking the basket and looking for your shot, two qualities you look for in a 2 guard. the ability to push the ball down the court at high speeds is what you look for in a point.

i think it is obvious to any ncaa/ncsu fan that a degand/javi backcourt is not something to look forward to, it is something to avoid if at all possible

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 10:54 PM. Reason : a]

3/18/2008 10:52:40 PM

^ Thanks for chopping my post and then restating some of it back to me like it was something you came up with on your own.



part of my original post:

Quote :

" And you say Degand isn't aggressive enough to be a 2? Did you see the kid with the ball? There were a couple of times he outran the ball (he was dribbling) down court. I don't think he suffers from a lack of aggression. More like a lack of control. Something that can't be lacking in a quality point guard. And I thought Fells would ball out at the 3 before I read this dude's blog. He's terrible with the ball in his hands trying to pass it down low, and he doesn't look for his shot/create his own shot enough to be an effective 2. I think he would create match-up problems for any 3 trying to guard him, and he's athletic/long enough not to have the same problem at the defensive end."

And I'm all for our point guard for pushing the tempo like a Ty Lawson does, but if he isn't in control and turns it over every third time down the court, what's the fucking point?

And the post you chopped will bear out that I agree with you as to what the job of a 2 is. I just disagree as to who on our team has the makings of an effective 2. We can't have a 2 guard (Fells) who disappears for half of the acc season. Do I think Gonzalez is the answer at the 2? Hell no. Degand? Maybe. Won't know until we try. The same goes for Fergie. But trying Fells out at the 3 and one of the other guys at the 2 will at least show Lowe is trying to work things out instead of clinging to something that obviously needed work.

And I would say the main thing to avoid if at all possible would be a repeat of the chemistry issues of this season. A degand/javi backcourt may not be pretty, but you can't definitively say it would be something to avoid because we never tried it. A backcourt consisting of Johnson and Ferguson would be a painful thing to watch, but if for some reason I thought it could be an answer to some of our problems (I definitely don't), I would want Lowe to try it.

3/18/2008 11:10:49 PM

Quote :

"ut he wasnt consistently the best player on the floor"

if you dont think JJ was the most consistent

then who was?

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 11:14 PM. Reason : k]

3/18/2008 11:11:04 PM

read that sentence again

i didnt say he wasnt the most conistent. i said he wasnt consistently the best player on the floor. nobody really was.

but there is a large diff b/w those 2 statements

3/18/2008 11:12:47 PM

i dont know of ANY player in any league that is consistently, game in and game out, the best player on the floor for EVERY single game.

but given that statement, do you agree with me that JJ was our most consistent player this year?

3/18/2008 11:15:55 PM

Bottom line is that we are going to fucking suck ass next year.

At least we won't have high hopes to be let down.

3/18/2008 11:17:38 PM

^ I would say we can't be any worse than this year, but wears theirs a NC State team, there's a way.

3/18/2008 11:19:15 PM

^^^prob by a small margin over grant, which is a positive, i've never said hickson had no positives. however, him being the most consistent is prob more of a sign of our team than hickson's skills.

Quote :

"i dont know of ANY player in any league that is consistently, game in and game out, the best player on the floor for EVERY single game."

consistently doesnt mean every single game. but i would say hickson rarely showed up as the best player on the court in acc play

and yes, a player handed as much as hickson was handed this year needs to be an oden, a beasley, a durant, an anthony, a hansborough, all of those players are/were consistently the best player on the court for their team.

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 11:29 PM. Reason : a]

3/18/2008 11:24:33 PM

for statered, while i def didnt plagiarize your post as you suggest, i will admit to only skimming it. i see that you noted he has a lack of control, but my point still stands that what he has shown isnt aggressiveness but recklessness.

and my point also stands that he has shown absolutely nothing that should lead you to believe he could be a functioning 2.

Quote :

"A degand/javi backcourt may not be pretty, but you can't definitively say it would be something to avoid because we never tried it."

ok i will give you that it might be interesting to see this as an experiment during the season against some really crappy team. but i contend that if your gameplan going into the season is a javi/degand backcourt, chances are that you are fucked.

3/18/2008 11:29:24 PM

trevor is the asnwer. he is our 1 and only shooting guard right now and has the best shot on the team we just don't get him the looks. we need to run him off screens as our offense somehow incorperate him coming off a curl to open up lanes on entry passes for our bigs (hell just make me offensive coordinator)

farnold(or freshman 1)
trevor (or freshman 2)
courtney
brandon(or ben if jj stays)
ben (or jj if he stays)

3/18/2008 11:35:45 PM

rwoody's superpost did a great job of picking random points from previous posts and responding to them completely out of context. A job at the Technician is waiting for you.

3/18/2008 11:39:35 PM

Quote :

"all of those coaches already have a stable program running, we are kind of starting from the bottom"

Well we weren't at the bottom till Sidney put us there....

And LOL at Javi being a better shooter, point, anything over Degand. Some of you have short memories.

3/19/2008 1:01:11 AM

Quote :

"all of those coachesUNC and Duke already have a stable program running, we are kind of starting from the bottom"

We will never be happy until we compete with UNC & Duke. Remember Herb, anyone?

3/19/2008 7:36:54 AM

Quote :

"trevor is the asnwer"

lol, if this is the case we are fucked

3/19/2008 9:36:55 AM

Quote :

"but wears theirs a NC State team, there's a way."

not to be a grammar nazi, but are you serious?!?

3/19/2008 9:43:42 AM

rwoody loses this thread...if for no other reason than because he took so much time to make that one post. What a fag.

3/19/2008 9:44:35 AM

Quote :

"trevor is the asnwer."

Hahahah, the moment I realized trevor had become our best player late in the season, I knew we were beyond redemption.

3/19/2008 9:48:26 AM

Here's to hoping Julius Mays comes in and rips it up. Not banking on it, but the guy at least appears to have a head on his shoulders, and comes with a winning mentality -- two things our team will be in sore need of next year.

Starting lineup I'm going with is:

PG: Degand (if he's completely healed)
SG: Mays (provided he doesn't suck)
SF: Fells (no-brainer)
PF: Smith (we need rebounders)
C: Hickson (obviously contingent)

^That lineup might not have the shooters, but they'll at least be able to run and get some easy trasition baskets. Should be good defensively as well.

2nd line
PG: Javi
SG: Turd
SF: Thomas/CJ Will
PF: Costner/Horner
C: Ben


[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 11:14 AM. Reason : ]

3/19/2008 11:13:10 AM

^ I like it, but I've heard that Thomas' injury rehab is not going well..

don't include him just yet...

3/19/2008 1:01:00 PM

X5^ Yeah. Bad grammar usually bothers me too, but last night I was really tired, and apparently I wasn't really proofreading what I typed.

3/19/2008 2:45:43 PM

I still don't even know what happened to Johnny Thomas. His knee is screwed up...ok...but what is actually wrong with it? ACL? all 4 ligaments? Amputation? insight please.

3/19/2008 3:48:42 PM

Anyone who thinks Costner isn't starting next year (at least at the beginning) is kidding themselves. I would be absoultely SHOCKED if the top 5 in the rotation weren't

1 Degand/Javi
2 Fells
3 Costner
4 Smith
5 McCauley

Of course if JJ stays that will change.

** and let me reiterate how HORRIBLE an idea it would be to play javi at the 2. I could live with Degand at 2 for a test run, but I still don't like it as I think he is primarily suited to run point.

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 3:53 PM. Reason : x]

3/19/2008 3:52:13 PM