I think it was probably 50/50

Obama came off pissed and angry a lot more than McCain did. McCain stumbled through a lot of his answers. Everybody on here is quick to point out when McCain repeats stuff like Maverick and his Miss Congeniality comments tonight, but the association with the Bush administration and McCain in every freaking issue is getting very old.

The beginning part where both talked about tax cuts was so much bullshit considering they're both in favor of a 700 billion dollar bailout... but oh well, that's politics.

I think McCain handled himself fairly well considering this was supposed to be his weakest area in debates and he still has the town-hall format next debate to look forward to, where he should have an advantage


[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:36 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 10:34:47 PM

Quote :

"I just switched to an HD TV, and McCain looks like he's about to tear (as in crying) up."

i think that's just something wrong with his left eye. called "Ptosis". some discussion of it by a neuroscientist here http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=386

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 10:35:28 PM

Quote :

"Obama came off pissed and angry a lot more than McCain did."

I was thinking the opposite. McCain seem to be much more upset than Obama does, look at his blinking particularly, he looks like he's about to flip out.

9/26/2008 10:36:57 PM

capital gains tax increases will delay my parents retirement. they own and run a bed and breakfast. when they sell the property to retire, the difference in the property value (which is linked to the business) will be open to the taxation. if it goes from 15 to 28%, they are looking at another $400k in taxes. when someone wants to cut your retirement funding by half a million dollars, you tend to not like that policy


aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnddddddddddddd mccain drops the pow card at the end

what a douchebag

9/26/2008 10:37:35 PM

Quote :

"I think the most striking thing so far is that both of them come off as far more competent than either Bush or Kerry from the last election."

yeah, that's true.

and it seems like here we're seeing a little more of what i would consider the "real McCain", who is a decent man and a good politician, instead of all this bullshit he has been pulling on the campaign trail for the past several months

9/26/2008 10:37:46 PM

douchebag with carolina jersey in front row

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:40 PM. Reason : ]

9/26/2008 10:38:19 PM

are you serious? obama was more angry? he's the only one of the two who tried to credit the other for work done...mccain just tried to attack him at every turn

9/26/2008 10:39:37 PM

Quote :

"Obama came off pissed and angry a lot more than McCain did."

yeah, i don't think that's necessarily true either. There were some points that McCain brought up that Obama had a very legitimate reason to get angry at, but he mostly handled them well.

9/26/2008 10:39:54 PM

^ the constant shaking of his head, trying to interrupt McCain constantly, looking down at the podium or back at the moderator looking for a moment to get back in there, rolling of his eyes

I'm not saying Obama was necessarily Hulk'ing up or anything, just given McCain's reputation, it seemed as if he was more calm than Obama most of the time

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:41 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 10:40:41 PM

as opposed to mccain always trying to laugh through every thing obama said...he was irritated as hell the whole time

if he didn't have a gimp hand, he probably would have tried to strangle him

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:42 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 10:41:41 PM

^^Because McCain kept repeating blatant lies and distortions about him.

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:42 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 10:41:54 PM

Quote :

"if he didn't have a gimp hand, he probably would have tried to strangle him"

nice

9/26/2008 10:42:36 PM

This was a debate on McCain's issue, and it was a draw substance-wise. And McCain's slide continues.

Personality-wise, Obama looked much more confident. I'm halfway wondering if McCain was intentionally going for a modest tone, but I imagine it's going to go over as weak.

9/26/2008 10:44:10 PM

Quote :

"looking down at the podium or back at the moderator looking for a moment to get back in there, rolling of his eyes"

i didn't see any eye rolling
but i don't see why he wouldn't keep an eye on the moderator

9/26/2008 10:44:35 PM

9/26/2008 10:45:21 PM

Don't know why you all are arguing. Did you not see this?

9/26/2008 10:46:24 PM

Oh, and

Ahmad...

Ahma... din... ejad

Ahmadin....ejad

Ahmadinejad




[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:48 PM. Reason : ...]

9/26/2008 10:47:17 PM

Quote :

"I predict boring debate, no big news moments, both sides claim they won "

omg I have psychic powers

9/26/2008 10:47:42 PM

i dont really think there WAS a winner. honestly, i dont see this changing a damn thing.

9/26/2008 10:48:00 PM

It seems a lot of people are calling this a tie.

^ which is good for Obama, which means in a way, Obama won.

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:48 PM. Reason : ]

9/26/2008 10:48:29 PM

^^ agreed.

Neither side said anything damaging but neither said anything amazing

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:49 PM. Reason : ^]

9/26/2008 10:48:56 PM

i'd say mccain won this one.

9/26/2008 10:49:30 PM

^^ I second. or third, or whatever

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:50 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 10:50:04 PM

All Obama had to do was show up and display competence. I don't think anyone could argue that he didn't.

McCain had to pull off some magic.

9/26/2008 10:50:11 PM

Quote :

"Neither side said anything damaging but neither said anything amazing"

They're going to rail McCain about how wrong he was regarding his BFF Kissinger.

Quote :

"Former U.S.Secretary of State Henry Kissinger today told an audience in Washington, DC that the U.S. should negotiate with Iran "without conditions" and that the next President should begin such negotiations at a high level."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/kissinger-backs.html

9/26/2008 10:52:25 PM

I thought McCain sounded like a condescending prick some of the time. He kept saying "what Obama doesn't understand" and that he's "naive." No, he disagrees with you. Those are subtle personal attacks and don't have a place in a debate.

One of the commentators on CNN said to some people it might sound like he was a grumpy old man lecturing Obama.

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 11:02 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 11:01:24 PM

Quote :

"I thought McCain sounded like a condescending prick some of the time. He kept saying "what Obama doesn't understand" and that he's "naive." No, he disagrees with you. Those are subtle personal attacks and don't have a place in a debate."

I think that's an intentional tactic, though. He wants to frame Obama as a young whippersnapper who is smart, but is just getting in over his head.

-----

Lehrer, at least at the beginning, was trying to get them to talk to each other. Obama did try to do that some, I think. I'm not sure if McCain looked or tried to make eye contact with Obama the entire time

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 11:07 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 11:07:09 PM

Quote :

"I wish Obama would proclaim HDTV for all middle class Americans."

lol!

9/26/2008 11:11:51 PM

Ties are unamerican.

Quote :

"if it goes from 15 to 28%, they are looking at another $400k in taxes. "

Quote :

"Sen. Barack Obama's campaign on Thursday spelled out the details of the Democratic presidential candidate’s tax plan on his website and in an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal. I just wanted to note the basic proposals for capital gains and dividend tax rates here: --- Families with incomes below $250,000 would pay current capital gains rates (a maximum tax of 15% on gains on assets held more than one year). Those earning more than $250,000 would face an increase -- a top rate of 20%."

small consolation i suppose

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 11:18 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 11:12:27 PM

50-50 imo. I was forced to watch this on msnbc after my folks objected to CNN and wanted Fox News, haha. I thought Obama did what he had to do. McCain needed to create some magic tonight and I personally didn't see it. He is going to have to pick it up in the next one, because he will likely be falling after the Palin-Biden show.

9/26/2008 11:13:05 PM

I applaud Obama on his ability to shorten up his answers. That must have been driving him crazy not to spend an hour stretching each question out into an infinite version of voting "present".

Obama pretty much kept his cool and didn't make any big mistakes.

On the next economy debate....

I hope McCain would chip more at the basic Obama marxist philosophy- making some people pay higher taxes not to gather money to run the country- but to make everything "fair".

Attack Obama's notion that there are some people who don't "need" the money they work hard to earn.

Ask Obama what percent of the nation's income is made by the top 10% of income earners, and what percentage of income taxes they pay.

Keep hitting on Obama's desire to have more gov't involvement in your lives. How gov't bureacrats will meddle in your health care decisions.

Remind everyone that another democratic presidential nominee promised everyone a middle-class tax cut and instead delivered the biggest tax increase in history- one which hit all taxpayers.

Point out how much Obama's promises will cost- and the fact that simply raising taxes on the evil rich won't raise enough money to make them happen.

I think McCain has a real opportunity to nail Obama on economics if he can highlight Obama's core marxist tendencies. Show Obama for the Class Warrior that he is. Point out how the gov't isn't suppose to pick winners and losers in life, how the gov't shouldn't be used to punish achievement.

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 11:20 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 11:16:59 PM

even though it was strategy, telling stories will not win you the presidency especially when you fail so badly on foreign policy

Quote :

""Obama came off pissed and angry a lot more than McCain did.""

i dont think so either. it was part of his strategy for him not come off as the "nice guy" ... same way McCain never looked at Obama. again, that was also strategy.

i thought it was a very long, tough debate. i think Obama gets the nod just b/c of the drama from the McCain camp and even declaring himself the winner before there was confirmation that he was going to show up. also, nice job at admitting to torture.

9/26/2008 11:18:55 PM

^^ riight, mccain is going to attack Obama for having views that at least half of Americans support right now.



Mccain can't attack anyone for being "marxist" as long as he supports the bailout. Everyone, republican or democrat, hates the bailout, and Mccain just embarrasses himself every time he talks about the economy without renouncing the bailout.

Mccain painted himself into a corner on economics by jumping the gun on this bailout shit. His position alienates the republican base and looks disingenuous to liberals. Republicans already think obama is a marxist and liberals just trust him more.

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 11:33 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 11:19:55 PM

Quote :

"Ask Obama what percent of the nation's income is made by the top 10% of income earners, and what percentage of income taxes they pay. "

This would be a failing strategy, because the other 90% don't care about the top 10% they care about themselves.

Quote :

" I think McCain has a real opportunity to nail Obama on economics if he can highlight Obama's core marxist tendencies. "

I don't think this is possible. McCain's position fundamentally is not good for most of Americans, and McCain would be better off staying away from this fact.

9/26/2008 11:20:58 PM

Quote :

"I predict boring debate, no big news moments, both sides claim they won "

There was a winner, and it was Obama. McCain needed a game-changer and he didn't earn it. Obama brought his consistent "A" game and Obama was the only one who turned to his opponent and railed him on a huge issue, Iraq, and created a striking difference between the two candidates. Also, I'd like to mention that immediately after the debates, Joe Biden provided his take on the debate on CNN and Palin was nowhere to be seen. In that respect, the Obama team won again. McCain, and even Palin, had a real opportunity to level the political playing field, and it simply did not happen.

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 11:31 PM. Reason : -]

9/26/2008 11:21:56 PM

obama didnt seem to know what he was talking about and appeared arrogant and condescending.


he is a douche

turd sandwich won

9/26/2008 11:23:56 PM

Quote :

"Remind everyone that another democratic presidential nominee promised everyone a middle-class tax cut and instead delivered the biggest tax increase in history- one which hit all taxpayers."

9/26/2008 11:26:41 PM

^^Obama just doesn't understand. He's naive.

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 11:27 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 11:26:52 PM

SPENDING ORGY!!!1

9/26/2008 11:31:26 PM

Quote :

"riight, mccain is going to attack Obama for having views that at least half of Americans support right now."

Great leaders teach. There is no reason to be envious that others have more than you. We should celebrate that there are rich among us...no poor person ever hired someone.

Quote :

"the other 90% don't care about the top 10%"

But Americans understand the basic principle of fairness. The rich are already carrying the rest of the country in taxes--paying more than 80% Show this and then ask Obama why they should pay more.

Both sides think their guy won. I'm obviously a fiscal conservative- I think McCain blew a lot of good opportunities to show viewers that Obama wants to lurch the country to the far left.

9/26/2008 11:32:43 PM

i'm not really crazy about either one of them, but i would definitely say mccain won this one

9/26/2008 11:35:18 PM

Bwahahaha your campaign advice to mccain is to be more didactic. Every wonder why libertarians are a joke?

9/26/2008 11:37:04 PM

anyone notice how mccain hardly ever looked at obama but obama looked at mccain a shitload?

9/26/2008 11:41:44 PM

I love that people are trying to peg Obama as some radical liberal (McCain included). Obama is about as centrist as you can get. McCain is somewhat right of center, but is a centrist at his core, even though his party has tried to pull him farther to the right. The people who call Obama "really" liberal have lost all sense of the political spectrum. Anymore it's who is right and who is farther to the right, not who is left and who is right.

As for the debate, McCain seemed to struggle. Obama was on point most of the debate, managed to keep his answers fairly concise, and actually tried to debate instead of talking to the camera. McCain had a hard time combating any of the accusations that Obama threw at him with anything other than a shit eating grin and a fake laugh.

9/26/2008 11:42:12 PM

^^ yes

Quote :

"Lehrer, at least at the beginning, was trying to get them to talk to each other. Obama did try to do that some, I think. I'm not sure if McCain looked or tried to make eye contact with Obama the entire time"

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 11:43 PM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 11:42:59 PM

Earthdogg is like the hooksaw for Libertarians. Please don't lump him in with us.

9/26/2008 11:48:21 PM

Quote :

"MSNBC Debate Poll: Who won the presidential debate? John McCain 35% Barack Obama 50% Tie 6.4% Not sure 8%"

Quote :

"CNN Debate Poll: Who fared better in the first presidential debate? Sen. John McCain 28% Sen. Barack Obama 67% Neither 6%"

Quote :

"CNN Debate Poll - Sorting for 50+ Voters 48% Obama 40% McCain"

Quote :

"CNN Debate Poll - Sorting for Women Voters 59% Obama 31% McCain"

Granted, I do support Obama, but the numbers they are reporting right now are all showing that Obama won the debate.

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 11:55 PM. Reason : -]

9/26/2008 11:48:30 PM

Quote :

"I love that people are trying to peg Obama as some radical liberal (McCain included). Obama is about as centrist as you can get. McCain is somewhat right of center, but is a centrist at his core, even though his party has tried to pull him farther to the right. The people who call Obama "really" liberal have lost all sense of the political spectrum. Anymore it's who is right and who is farther to the right, not who is left and who is right. As for the debate, McCain seemed to struggle. Obama was on point most of the debate, managed to keep his answers fairly concise, and actually tried to debate instead of talking to the camera. McCain had a hard time combating any of the accusations that Obama threw at him with anything other than a shit eating grin and a fake laugh."

you could have just posted, "my bias is with Obama" and it would have saved a lot of typing

9/26/2008 11:49:58 PM

i kinda thought it was a tie...so i guess in a way, mccain kinda won it

9/26/2008 11:50:20 PM

What type of poll is that? ^^^

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 11:57 PM. Reason : ^^^]

9/26/2008 11:56:55 PM