5

10/10/2009 9:58:15 PM

If you skip ahead to about 2:20 you can watch the portion of the President's speech tonight that addresses Don't Ask Don't Tell.

10/10/2009 10:28:07 PM

He's been saying that since he was campaigning. Did he introduce any legislation during his long tenure as the junior Senator from Illinois to address it? Has he introduced any legislation as President to do so? When is he going to STOP FUCKING TALKING and START DOING.

10/10/2009 11:06:35 PM

^ the president can’t introduce any legislation, he can only recommend it.

10/10/2009 11:29:02 PM

^ don't confuse him, you know burro has a flimsy grasp on facts.

10/11/2009 12:53:29 AM

^^ and ^ It's you two who are confused--and Obama.

Obama Pledges Again to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'
October 10, 2009

Quote :

"WASHINGTON — President Obama on Saturday renewed his vow to allow gay men and lesbians to serve openly in the military, but failed to offer a timetable for doing so — an omission likely to inflame critics who say he is not fighting aggressively enough for gay rights. 'I will end "don't ask, don't tell,"' Mr. Obama told an audience of nearly 3,000 people at a fund-raising dinner for the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest gay advocacy group. 'That is my commitment to you.'"

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/us/politics/11speech.html

Obama could immediately suspend prosecutions and investigations while the DADT review continues--yet he has not done so. This is fact.

10/11/2009 7:39:55 AM

I love how people say "this is a fact" about things, as if it ends debate.

10/11/2009 10:27:46 AM

^^… so how am I confused? Are you saying the president can introduce legislation?

10/11/2009 12:01:56 PM

Stop being morons people - it's obvious that Obama is picking his battles here and can't afford to waste any political capital unnecessarily while the healthcare debate is ongoing

10/11/2009 12:43:11 PM

Does anyone NOT realize that he's waiting until the healthcare bill passes before he enacts other reforms? I guarantee you that DADT will be repealed VERY soon after we get a public option.

10/11/2009 1:09:10 PM

you seem very confident that socialized healthcare is an inevitability.

10/11/2009 1:10:42 PM

That's because it is at this point. It's going to be weaker than inevitably planned, but a public option is at this point seems to me like an inevitability. I wouldn't have said that 2 weeks ago, but now both the house and senate are promising it, there's no way the dems won't have the numbers to at least bypass the filibuster. No democrat wants to be the one who didn't vote against a republican filibuster (though they may not all vote for the bill, reconciliation will get it through).

Yeah, we'll have an insurance mandate and stipends to cover it for some people, while the rest will be covered by a public option of some kind. My guess is they'll also work it out so that providers will be reimbursed medicare rates +5% rather than negotiated rates. And it'll hopefully pass and be signed before 2010.

[Edited on October 11, 2009 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

10/11/2009 1:49:46 PM

and we'll all be thusly fucked.

10/11/2009 4:51:14 PM

Some pictures of today's march, including Lt. Choi. We'll see if it has any impact on the DADT congressional hearings this month.





[Edited on October 11, 2009 at 7:25 PM. Reason : .]

10/11/2009 7:21:41 PM

(sooooooooooooo happy i wasn't driving downtown today)

10/11/2009 7:41:56 PM

Posted on Advocate.com October 10, 2009
Obama Long On Promises, Short On Specifics

Quote :

"It was a speech long on promises and short on specifics that will most certainly leave the LGBT community divided as to what it means."

Quote :

"Meanwhile, the LGBT blogosphere quaked with disappointment the moment the president finished."

Quote :

"One 22-year-old activist, Paul Sousa, instantly floated an email with the subject line, 'Obama's HRC Speech: FAIL.' 'Of course, it's nice having President Obama speak to us, but that's all it was -- more pretty words,' wrote Sousa, who participates in several grassroots activist groups, including Join The Impact. 'It was pretty much a rehash of his campaign promises.' Karen Ocamb, a veteran LGBT journalist and news editor of Frontiers In LA, pecked out a headline for the blog LGBT POV, 'Is Obama a sissy?'"

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2009/10/10/Obama_Addresses_HRC_Dinner/

10/11/2009 11:40:15 PM

i wonder if obama will ever find the happy medium between

OMG HE'S TAKING ON TOO MUCH AT ONCE, SETTLE THE FUCK DOWN

and

OMG HE'S NOT DOING ENOUGH FAST ENOUGH, HURRY THE FUCK UP

[Edited on October 12, 2009 at 12:26 AM. Reason : /.]

10/12/2009 12:26:48 AM

^^Paul & Karen both do good work, I've chatted with Paul some before & maybe Karen too. I've seen a mixed reaction online. I've seen some lgbt bloggers cheer him greatly for his speech this weekend for doing more than any other president ever has for the lgbt community in terms of recognition, in appointments to certain positions, on expanding equality amongst federal government positions, on immigration law as it relates to lgbts, and I've also seen some condemn him harshly saying they are changing their party affiliation away from democratic because of such horrible speeches that contain only words & not action. And then there are a lot of people between those two extremes. I for one am taking more of a wait and see approach. He made a lot of promises, and with congressional hearings on DADT set to happen this month, & with other lgbt legislation heading to his desk already, & more lgbt issues likely to come up, he'll have a chance to live up to those promises before this term is up.



Above is a speech by Lance Black who worked on the Milk movie. Below is a partial list of speakers for the weekends events.

Quote :

"NAACP chairman Julian Bond Academy Award winning screenwriter for the movie Milk Dustin Lance Black Gay rights activist & protege of Harvey Milk: Cleve Jones Lt. Dan Choi Mother of the late Matthew Shepard: Judy Shepard Actress Cynthia Nixon Musician/Performer Lady Gaga Stuart Applebaum Richard Aviles Jarret Barrios Marsha Botzer Staceyann Chin Tanner Efinger Hawaii Board of Education Member Kim Coco Iwamoto Michelle Lopez Robin McGehee David Mixner Nicole-Murray Ramirez Chloe Noble Tobias Packer Reverend Troy Perry New York City Council Speaker Christine C. Quinn Los Angeles Council Member Bill Rosendahl Babs Siperstein Maxim Thorn Urvashi Vaid Derek Washington Falls Church City Council Member Lawrence Webb Kit Yan Kip Williams Sherry Wolf "

10/12/2009 12:55:23 AM

^ Obama (1) does not support gay marriage and (2) has thus far refused to suspend prosecutions and investigations while the DADT review continues--Obama has the power to do this right now and if anyone disputes this please do so now. What has Obama done for the LGBT community other than talk, appointments?

Against the will of some social conservatives in his party, Bush appointed Mark Dybul, MD, as United States Global AIDS Coordinator:



And Obama promptly dumped him as a scapegoat for some of Bush's policies, remember?

10/12/2009 1:22:21 AM

Frankly, the fact that he made promises at all is a big deal. He stood to lose more by speaking out on the issue of gay rights than he could ever possibly gain.

Shit, half the gay people I know are conservative, and I challenge them on it. Basically, they see themselves as financially successful, and they care more about taxes going to black people than they do their right to get married. And none of the liberals or moderates I know are hinging their support for Obama/Democrats on gay rights.


Basically, I believe Obama and the people need to move on this shit and get it done.

But be realistic--the majority of people don't actually, like, really care. This is a perfect lip-service issue. Some folks might even wanna hold off so they can keep talking about, keep reasserting their righteous stance on civil rights.

10/12/2009 1:25:00 AM

NVM.

[Edited on October 12, 2009 at 4:28 AM. Reason : .]

10/12/2009 4:27:49 AM

The National Equality March in DC drew around 150,000-200,000 people, more than twice the 9/12 Demonstration, with no where near the level of promotion as the 9/12 stuff. I wonder if Fox covered this as much as the 9/12 stuff?

10/12/2009 7:27:21 PM

someone should take out a full page ad.

this is an outrage.

10/12/2009 9:52:33 PM

He's not going to do anything about it until after the health care bill is passed because it would put all of the crazy conservatives in a frenzy. It's fucking obvious, what's there to argue about here?

10/12/2009 10:08:59 PM

I've never seen the problem with Don't Ask, Don't Tell. It allows gays to serve and protects their privacy.

10/13/2009 12:32:15 AM

Quote :

"I've never seen the problem with Don't Ask, Don't Tell. It allows gays to serve and protects their privacy."

Shouldn't be a big deal to be openly gay in the military at all. It's not a big deal to be openly straight.

10/13/2009 12:48:57 AM

Obama's Gay Outreach: All Talk, No Action
By John Cloud Sunday, Oct. 11, 2009

Quote :

"Saturday night President Obama charmingly delivered a rather bleak message to the gay community on the eve of its latest march on Washington. In a speech to the world's largest gay political group, the Human Rights Campaign, Obama essentially said two things: I'm with you. But I can't do much for you."

Quote :

"Obama did pledge — as he has before — to end the Pentagon's 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy. But once again he said nothing specific about how he plans to do that and didn't acknowledge that he already has the statutory power to instruct the Pentagon that investigating service members' sexuality is not in the best interest of the armed forces. Also, he said that gay relationships can be 'just as real and admirable' as straight relationships, but he did not say gay couples should be treated equally. Obama, after all, still opposes equal marriage rights."

Quote :

"'Obama lost me,' said Zach Rosen, 28, who came to Washington from Philadelphia. 'He took a lot of gay dollars and gay votes, and then it was like Clinton — unkept promises.'"

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1929687,00.html

Much Worse Than I Expected
Andrew Sullivan
10 Oct 2009

Quote :

"But the sad truth is: [Obama] is refusing to take any responsibility for his clear refusal to fulfill clear campaign pledges on the core matter of civil rights and has given no substantive, verifiable pledges or deadlines by which he can be held accountable. What that means, I'm afraid, is that this speech was highfalutin bullshit. There were no meaningful commitments within a time certain, not even a commitment to fulfilling them in his first term; just meaningless, feel-good commitments that we have no way of holding him to. Once the dust settles, ask yourself. What did he promise to achieve in the next year? Or two years? Or four years? The answer is: nothing."

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/10/much-worse-than-i-expected.html

Yeah, keep posting inspirational pics of marches on Washington or wherever and being thankful for the crumbs Obama gives you, Supplanter et al. The fact of the matter is that Obama has already broken more promises than Bill Clinton ever dared to.

[Edited on October 13, 2009 at 5:15 AM. Reason : .]

10/13/2009 5:14:59 AM

Who wants to bet me that as soon as healthcare reform bill is signed, this happens within a few months?

10/13/2009 8:53:37 AM

^ And if that happens, it still won't answer this question: Why has Obama thus far refused to suspend prosecutions and investigations while the DADT review continues?

Obama has the power to do this right now and if anyone disputes this please do so now.

10/13/2009 8:58:04 AM

So, hooksaw, are you for or against DADT?

10/13/2009 9:06:14 AM

^^It has already been said. It would draw too much attention right now. Don't mistake the nature of DADT: if you end investigations, you end the whole thing.

10/13/2009 9:08:54 AM

^^ I thought DADT was half-baked when Clinton and Company cooked it up--and the policy came from yet another broken promise by a Democrat. FTR, I have stated here on numerous occasions that I think gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve openly in the military.

But why do you care so much about my position? The point here is the position--or the flip-flopping positions--of the one person who could do something about DADT investigations and prosecutions right now: Obama.

^ Wrong. Gay and lesbian advocacy groups have rightly pointed out that Obama could simply instruct the military not to enforce DADT--end of story for investigations and prosecutions. Obama has the power and he hasn't used it. Why?

I expect I'll get nothing more than the typical apologist blather concerning Obama's responsibility for DADT prosecutions. But Obama's trying so hard! But, but McCain! Bush!

[Edited on October 13, 2009 at 9:19 AM. Reason : .]

10/13/2009 9:13:59 AM

He definitely has the power to end DADT. Honestly, I can't see why he wouldn't...unless he agrees with the current policy. That, or he's afraid of the political ramifications. If it's the latter, I don't know what he's afraid of. He's already in the process of alienating the far left. Eliminating DADT would probably be a good thing, for him.

10/13/2009 10:01:52 AM

^^
No one is saying that. Like I said before, he's waiting until the health care bill is passed. Gay marriage is an extremely controversial issue and the last thing he needs right now is another reason for the far right to rally against him.

[Edited on October 13, 2009 at 10:05 AM. Reason : .]

10/13/2009 10:05:33 AM

^

Quote :

"He's not going to do anything about it until after the health care bill is passed because it would put all of the crazy conservatives in a frenzy. It's fucking obvious, what's there to argue about here?"

I don't think so. The "crazy conservatives" aren't going to get behind the healthcare bill anyway, in all likelyhood. I doubt the bill will get passed at all, at least not as the Democrats want it. If anything, he should eliminate DADT now, as it will distract from the healthcare bill, possibly increasing the chances of it getting passed.

[Edited on October 13, 2009 at 10:36 AM. Reason : ]

10/13/2009 10:34:55 AM

I don't think it's so much about who he might piss off as it is about distracting everyone and bringing attention away from it. If he does anything himself, it will cause all sorts of wheels to start turning in the congress, distract the media, etc. Also, it might anger the senate and cause all sorts of arguments about whether he should do things that way rather than waiting for a bill to pass that he can sign and get it done properly.

However, I'm sure there are plenty of people who support the health reform bill but who are not sure about repealing DADT.

10/13/2009 1:10:52 PM

Not everyone agrees that an executive order is the best way to go about things

http://www.sldn.org/news/archives/new-york-times-sldn-doesnt-support-executive-order/

Quote :

"If an executive order were issued, the next president could come along and wipe it away. Congress, and only Congress, can repeal the law, and it should do so cleanly. This is no time to entertain legal theories, interim or temporary solutions - like President Obama's issuing an executive order under his national security umbrella. If an executive order were issued, not only would there be an unnecessary and distracting showdown with the legislative branch, the next president could come along and wipe it away. Moreover, repeal by an act of Congress, coupled with a non-discrimination policy for the military, is the only sure-fire way to protect against future employment discrimination in the ranks based on sexual orientation."

As it is, Congress is taking forever to pass ENDA and the hate crimes bill, two things which passed Congress under Bush and should easily pass now. And the crazies will come out for both of these in droves. Already they're distorting both of the bills to rile up their bases, calling ENDA the "Pedophile Protection Act" or some other such bullshit.

DirtyGreek also has a point. Not everyone who supports healthcare reform supports DADT and not everyone who opposes health care reform opposes DADT. Congressmen could find themselves flooded with calls about DADT at a time when they're working out the details on healthcare.

If you want to talk about two (small) things that the Obama administration has done for gays, they gave travel compensation for State department employees' domestic partners and they're moving forward with getting rid of the travel ban for HIV+ immigrants. Yeah, they're irrelevant for most people, but there they are.

10/13/2009 1:36:30 PM

^ So what if another president "could come along and wipe [an order against enforcing DADT] away"? Four years of investigations and prosecutions is acceptable when (1) Obama made a promise to end DADT and (2) we don't know what the next president would or wouldn't do?



Eat your crumbs and like 'em!

BTW, some of you don't sound very confident that Obama will be re-elected. It ain't looking good, is it? I mean, the only thing you really have going for you is a weak Republican field.

10/13/2009 6:54:32 PM

Quote :

"I mean, the only thing you really have going for you is a weak Republican field."

that and the fact that the election is over 3 years away.

10/13/2009 7:41:38 PM

I just saw this speech from that same National Equality March mentioned before, by the head of the NAACP Julian Bond.

10/14/2009 11:26:24 AM

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-october-13-2009/queer-and-loathing-in-d-c-

[Edited on October 14, 2009 at 11:34 AM. Reason : give up on embedding]

10/14/2009 11:33:27 AM

Quote :

"I don't think it's so much about who he might piss off as it is about distracting everyone and bringing attention away from it. If he does anything himself, it will cause all sorts of wheels to start turning in the congress, distract the media, etc. Also, it might anger the senate and cause all sorts of arguments about whether he should do things that way rather than waiting for a bill to pass that he can sign and get it done properly."

I'm pretty sure hooksaw knows this, he's just trying to troll. Either that, or he's genuinely an idiot.

10/14/2009 11:33:28 AM

^^ Daily Show clips are a pain to embed, their embed source code doesn't agree w/ tdub at all.


I'll just point out he said 10s of thousands, but subsequently people having been saying hundreds of thousands which matches about what people I knew that went to the National Equality March said (I was hearing numbers from 100,000 to 250,000). Jon's point is that it is hypocritical for fox to get mad at other media networks for not covering 75 k teabaggers, when they didn't cover 10s of thousands of people at the National Equality March is strengthened if you consider that this was possibly 2 or 3 times as big as the tea party protests.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1929747,00.html

Quote :

"The march on Washington that gays staged Sunday on the National Mall drew something like 200,000 people — that's a good guess based on conversations with many of the organizers and local authorities, although estimates of Mall crowds are notoriously unreliable."

10/14/2009 11:27:35 PM

^ it’s strengthened even further when you consider that no major network was promoting the march like Glenn Beck/Fox.

Frankly, i feel like I overestimated the importance of the tea baggers protests and their shouting, after realizing how pathetic their turnout really was. I hope the congress-people feel the same way about them now too.

10/15/2009 12:35:32 AM

Don't Ask For Patience On Gay Rights
October 15, 2009

Quote :

"Barack Obama's 'fierce' support for gay rights, expressed well before he was elected president, had long come as sweet music to the ears of gay rights advocates accustomed to a mostly hostile reception in the halls of government. Sadly, President Obama's promises — reiterated once again Saturday night at the annual dinner of the Washington-based Human Rights Committee — are becoming a tired old refrain. Yes, it's a comfort and a sign of fundamental change in the political landscape that Mr. Obama was the featured speaker at the Human Rights Committee event: He and Bill Clinton are the only sitting presidents so honored. And his promises to help abolish discriminatory policies and laws such as the Defense of Marriage Act and the military's 'don't ask, don't tell' policy drew whoops and applause at the dinner. But gay Americans and their legion of straight supporters want action, not just another promise, to make all Americans equal before the law. There should be no second-class citizens in this country. Perhaps attacking 'don't ask, don't tell' will yield the quickest results. This Clinton-era law allows homosexuals to serve in the military only if they stay in the closet. A gay soldier can't be him- or herself. Service members 'found out' are hounded from the military — robbing the U.S. armed forces of thousands of badly needed troops, many of them among the bravest and most skilled. Since this awful policy was put into place, more than 13,000 service members have been discharged for being gay. It's an outrageous injustice. Since Mr. Obama became president just nine months ago, some 400 men and women who volunteered to serve their country have been unjustly shown the door, including fighter pilots and Arab linguists whose skills are needed in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. A bill has been introduced in Congress to abolish 'don't ask, don't tell.' It will wend its way slowly, if at all, through the legislative process as the House and Senate take up big-ticket issues such as health care and the economy, and as members drag their feet on something perceived to be controversial. Polls, however, show large majorities of Americans favor repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell.' Mr. Obama doesn't have to wait until there is a bill to sign. He can suspend enforcement of the policy by executive order so that no more patriotic Americans are cashiered from the services just because they are gay. He can do that today. He should do so before he makes one more promise."

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/editorials/hc-gay-rights-obama.art.artoct15,0,7694483.story

10/15/2009 6:44:29 AM

A bill is better. Executive orders do not advocate a representative democracy.

10/15/2009 8:35:09 AM

^ Tell this guy--and the many more like him:

10/15/2009 9:14:50 AM

Ok, how can I contact him?

10/15/2009 10:10:40 AM

There doesn't need to be a bill for this. The President has the power, which he can use legitimately, to get rid of DADT. How partisan do you have to be to be against DADT and acknowledge that it's wrong, but when a democrat is finally in office, it suddenly isn't the president's place? It's about maintaining the poltical status quo, now?

Seriously - stop mindlessly supporting the messiah, and start thinking for yourself. You know DADT is wrong, and you know he can effectively get rid of it. This is exactly what I expected out of Obama - business as usual. At least hoped that the people on the left that claimed to support individual rights would call Obama out, when necessary. That doesn't seem to be the case. Stop making excuses for Obama.

10/15/2009 10:23:03 AM

^^he's on facebook, & open to talking to people, at least in my experience

10/15/2009 10:25:21 AM