Quote :

"One of the cornerstones of our Republic is the concept that even the minority has rights that are protected, often to the displeasure of the majority"

Exactly. Anyone who doesn't think these smoking bans will be overturned by a federal court are only fooling themselves.
These bans are a classic example of unjust legislation championed by a popular majority.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:26 AM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 11:25:56 AM

this is the best law to be passed yet.. its about time.

5/14/2009 11:26:01 AM

^
Except that you're 100% wrong.

5/14/2009 11:26:43 AM

buy an e-cig...problem solved

5/14/2009 11:27:28 AM

yeah non-smokers all around the state are cheering today

5/14/2009 11:27:32 AM

Quote :

"but, allah be praised, i have sense enough to not go to smoky bars without being ready for the consequences."

lol. but there aren't any other choices for people that aren't ready for the consequences. that is the problem. we need bars to be equal opportunity establishments so that EVERYONE can get drunk. equal = fair. fair = equal.

i mean the best argument on either side is "its not fair"....followed by whatever else people want to stick in there (property rights, health care, i smell like smoke blah blah blah). so if everyone has to stop then things must be fair because everyone is equal. right? i think we've learned this lesson before.

and, as has been pointed out numerous times in both threads (though people are clearly skipping over it, or something) the private club thing, though it may be a loophole, is not a simple loophole. go back and read the statute posted in both threads.

finally, i still side with the smokers over the nonsmokers (even though i've already said it sucks when my hair and clothes smell like smoke, but, as an individual capable of making my own rational choices, i chose to go to a smokey bar) because to me, the best "its not fair" argument lies with the smokers. though i definitely understand the nonsmokers plight. i think that yes, for selfish reasons people will enjoy nonsmoking establishments more but lets hope there's no impact on the businesses/business owners. nonsmokers don't seem to think there will be so, i hope you are right. either way, i'm going to continue to go out and if something about a place bothers me (smoke, etc) i'll leave. most of the places i go out to aren't smoking anyway, or if they are smoking, it is only on a particular side (ie the raleigh times). so i probably won't even notice the change.

in other news, people with BO really bother me because i have asthma so it impacts my health. plus it isn't fair if i'm eating and i have to smell pit stains over there all night. so if we could eliminate that smell too, that'd be fabulous. mandatory deodorant for all? is it free? i love a good handout

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:30 AM. Reason : some non smokers are sad faced ]

5/14/2009 11:28:03 AM

BO bothers your asthma but not smoke?

5/14/2009 11:33:29 AM

Quote :

"Anyone who doesn't think these smoking bans will be overturned by a federal court are only fooling themselves."

it's unlikely they will be overturned. smoking is not a endemic feature of a person. it's something they can control (abet with some difficulty due to the addiction YMMV). not something they 'are'.

it also has a direct effect on those around the smoker, that, smoking or not, are usually not consulted about the activity at all, instead it is inflicted upon them.

the phrase "do you mind if i smoke?" is rarely a actual question.

one of my pet peeves are smokers on the high way that then flick the butt out the window (still glowing of course) where it, more often than not, collides with my car/windshield. on top of the car being hit by burning debris and the littering, I can smell it come into the car.

5/14/2009 11:33:34 AM

Quote :

"yeah non-smokers all around the state are cheering today "

this non-smoker is pissed. it's gonna hurt my business.

5/14/2009 11:34:39 AM

^it's not going to hurt business at all. because no bar (with a full menu) will allow smoking, so it's not like they'll go elsewhere. they'll be pissed initially, but then they'll realize that if they want a social environment to drink in while watching sports or just generally socializing, then you deal with the fact that you have to go outside to smoke.

there's no way this thing will be overturned. the whole "SMOKING BAN" thing has been in effect in numerous other states for quite some time. just because we're a big tobacco state doesn't mean shit.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 11:35:07 AM

Quote :

"Anyone who doesn't think these smoking bans will be overturned by a federal court are only fooling themselves."

On what constitutional grounds?

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

5/14/2009 11:37:11 AM

fed courts haven't overturned them anywhere else and it's been going on for a few years

never gonna happen willy

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:38 AM. Reason : freudian slip??]

5/14/2009 11:38:06 AM

Quote :

"BO bothers your asthma but not smoke? "

winky face, dude. winky face.

^^^ but what if it hurts business initially? a lot of these places are small businesses. and i guess it won't go into effect for a few months, which is good because then maybe the economy will be fairing a little better.

^ yea i don't think they'll get overturned. and i don't really care i am just saying. i really hope the small businesses aren't negatively impacted. because even if it is just initial, it still could be detrimental

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:39 AM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 11:38:53 AM

Quote :

"there's no way this thing will be overturned."

Yes, it will. You are a fool to think otherwise.

Quote :

"it's unlikely they will be overturned. smoking is not a endemic feature of a person. it's something they can control (abet with some difficulty due to the addiction YMMV). not something they 'are'. it also has a direct effect on those around the smoker, that, smoking or not, are usually not consulted about the activity at all, instead it is inflicted upon them. the phrase "do you mind if i smoke?" is rarely a actual question. one of my pet peeves are smokers on the high way that then flick the butt out the window (still glowing of course) where it, more often than not, collides with my car/windshield. on top of the car being hit by burning debris and the littering, I can smell it come into the car."

Such irrelevance and bigotry has no place in this issue.
It matters not that smoking isn't an endemic feature of a person -- smoking isn't even really the issue. The issue is private property rights. Second-hand smoke is not relevant at all because those around it are consenting to be around it.

And your point about littering butts from a car or otherwise is also completely irrelevant to the issue. I hate littering more than anyone I know. I am that guy that picks up litter, even butts, off the ground at parks and other places. It seems like such comments are intended to simply fan the flames of hate against smokers.

Quote :

"fed courts haven't overturned them anywhere else and it's been going on for a few years never gonna happen willy"

Yes, it will.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:41 AM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 11:40:48 AM

I don't understand you people who say you get mad that your clothes stink like cigarettes...my clothes never smell like cigarettes...you should be more mad that my clothes always smell like your girlfriend

5/14/2009 11:41:16 AM

Quote :

"The issue is private property rights"

you are so naive. the govt shits all over our rights all the time. what makes this different?

Quote :

"my clothes never smell like cigarettes"

just because you can't smell it doesn't mean they don't stink. my parents smoke like freight trains and neither one can smell the stink from their clothes and everything else they own

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:44 AM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 11:42:01 AM

Quote :

"winky face, dude. winky face. "

ah, it just got me thinking. because my father has asthma, and he has to sit on the opposite end of the place than the smoking section or else he is useless for the rest of the day.

I personally don't have asthma so I was actually hoping you had it so i could get your take on that aspect.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:45 AM. Reason : ba]

5/14/2009 11:43:26 AM

^^that nonsmokers are trying to say that it doesnt just because they don't want to smell like smoke

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:43 AM. Reason : ^]

5/14/2009 11:43:27 AM

^^ i have exercise induced asthma. so exercising hurts me. but i got that inhaler yo

5/14/2009 11:44:46 AM

Quote :

"just because you can't smell it doesn't mean they don't stink. "

no, like i said, my clothes smell like your girlfriend, not cigarettes

5/14/2009 11:45:14 AM

ok how about this. it's not about "smelling like smoke" when you leave the bar. it's about the fact that there are millions of people out there each year who die of lung cancer who never smoked a day in their life.

if smokers want to kill themselves, do it in the privacy of your own home or car or out in the open where people aren't directly subjected to your second-hand smoke.

5/14/2009 11:45:19 AM

lol you got me son

5/14/2009 11:45:42 AM

Quote :

"if smokers want to kill themselves, do it in the privacy of your own home or car or out in the open, or in someone else's private property where they allow it, where people aren't directly subjected to your second-hand smoke."

Fixed it.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:46 AM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 11:46:19 AM

Quote :

"there are millions of people out there each year who die of lung cancer who never smoked a day in their life."

there are not millions of people who die each year of lung cancer, at least not in the united states

and the majority of people who die of lung cancer, smoked for many many many years of their lives

5/14/2009 11:47:36 AM

^^I see we're going to ignore the fact that there are no constitutional grounds upon which to challenge this legislation and proceed with wishful thinking. Carry on, then.

@thumper: Second hand smoke is relatively innocuous in limited exposure and only correlated with an elevated risk of cancer, to my knowledge, with chronic exposure through childhood. As I've said previously I'm on the fence with this issue, but regardless of my position I'm pretty sure your factoid is inaccurate there.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:50 AM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 11:47:54 AM

^^^yeah that works for me. as a non-smoker, i will make sure (come january 2010) that if we're going out drinking at a bar to watch a football game, we choose a place that is smoke-free. i'm sure i'm not the only non-smoker who is happy to finally have a choice in that matter.

^^i'm sure you're right, but the number of people who have lung cancer and are non-smokers is really scary

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:49 AM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 11:48:13 AM

you've had a choice in the matter...there are over 1400 places to eat in mecklenburg county alone that are smoke free

people are just too lazy to seek out smoke-free bars

you've always had a choice...if anything, now there isnt a choice

5/14/2009 11:48:56 AM

how many bars in the raleigh/cary area are smoke-free? i'm guessing not many.

5/14/2009 11:49:27 AM

i dont know, i found the mecklenburg county ones by doing a google search

you'd think if 80% of the population are non smokers, there would be some non smoking bars and restaurants to cater to that vast majority of the population

5/14/2009 11:50:12 AM

most bars wouldn't be non-smoking because they know it would hurt their business

the good thing is, now they're forced into it, so there would be no competition with other bars that allow smoking, so it'll all even out eventually

5/14/2009 11:51:12 AM

i disagree that its a good thing that they're forced into it...seems like the competition would have plenty of bars with no smoking, and plenty of other bars with smoking, and everyone would make money

theres a place in Charlotte called Big Daddy's Burger Bar...lots of burgers, beers...and its no smoking

and its always packed

but they didnt wait for a government mandate

5/14/2009 11:52:05 AM

it won't hurt their business that much. folks will go outside and smoke.

see: every city that has already done this

5/14/2009 11:52:36 AM

exactly, i think people are forgetting just how successful this has been everywhere else. they didn't have businesses shutting down left and right because smokers boycotted. they just had an influx of outdoor stand-up ashtrays

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 11:54 AM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 11:53:33 AM

wooo woooo!! now my allergies dont have to suffer. no more clothes smelling like ass!

5/14/2009 11:54:25 AM

wel i'll be sure to blow my smoke in your face when you are entering and leaving the bar

5/14/2009 11:54:52 AM

i find myself holding my breath when i have to walk by folks smoking outside work, on campus, etc.

5/14/2009 11:55:55 AM

your precious little nose

5/14/2009 11:56:48 AM

Quote :

"wel i'll be sure to blow my smoke in your face when you are entering and leaving the bar"

and i'll punch you in the nads

5/14/2009 11:57:27 AM

sure ya will

5/14/2009 11:57:54 AM

along with everyone else

5/14/2009 11:58:12 AM

i ain't skeered

5/14/2009 11:58:47 AM

Quote :

"wooo woooo!! now my allergies dont have to suffer"

yeah now you just have to deal with the pollen, grass and mold allergies that make North Carolina one of the worst places to live in the country for allergy sufferers

5/14/2009 11:59:25 AM

yeah i know...but at least one of my problems have been eliminated. i dont have to wonder if ill get a headache from being at a bar or restaurant too long now

5/14/2009 12:00:17 PM

^ u mad x2?

5/14/2009 12:02:13 PM

i dont have allergies but i remember hearing on the radio a week or so ago that Charlotte was the 3rd worst city in the US to live in for allergy sufferers

no i'm not mad, you gonna be mad when some bars use loopholes to allow smoking?

5/14/2009 12:04:56 PM

i can think of several smoke free bars in dtown raleigh.

sitti, busy bee, foundation, lilly's, tobacco road, cafe luna, 518 (i THINK not 100% positive), the globe (i am pretty sure) and these are just the ones i can think of off the top of my head! there are more, i know.

i don't know about cary and other parts of raleigh. i feel like there are more nonsmoking places on glenwood south but i never really go there.

of course now there will be lots more but i'm just saying that there already were a lot of great nonsmoking places to go. i get that in other smaller towns etc, there weren't. but at least in raleigh/durham/ch/cary there IS/WAS a good selection.

5/14/2009 12:04:57 PM

^^lol he was talking to me

5/14/2009 12:07:21 PM

I am confused about one thing, the law seems to prevent bars from circumventing the law by being private clubs, but then wxii says:

The final exemption and the largest are any so-called "private" clubs, like West End Opera House. It includes bars that don't sell food, make more than 50 percent of their profit on liquor and have a members-only policy.

http://www.wxii12.com/news/19452640/detail.html

That doesn't jive with my reading of the law. Anyone?

5/14/2009 12:07:30 PM

I will definitely be able to spend more time at the bar now. I always have to leave early when I start sneezing uncontrollably, sinuses swell up, and I just can't breathe inside. Oh, and the snot!! (and I go prepared. I take my medicine, and take breathers outside.)

I don't think its about getting people to quit, it's about second hand smoke and the imposition smoking has on other people.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 12:10 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 12:08:05 PM

Quote :

"if smokers want to kill themselves, do it in the privacy of your own home or car or out in the open, or in someone else's private property where they allow it, where people aren't directly subjected to your second-hand smoke."

Quote :

"yeah that works for me."

Clearly it doesn't, because you want the government to rob private property owners that sell food or booze from the right to choose to allow it....

Quote :

"I don't think its about getting people to quit, it's about second hand smoke and the imposition smoking has on other people."

Except that's 100% irrelevant. Any adult around second-hand smoke is consenting to be around it, therefore they aren't being legally harmed. If you consent to a harm, (smoke, loud music, a boxing match, etc.) then the harm isn't illegal or immoral -- you consented to it.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 12:12 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 12:08:13 PM