Cause obviously, its only the people on the mainland we should be worried about

Fuck our troops in Korea.

7/4/2009 5:33:02 PM

what i said, pretty clearly, was that south korea should be the policy spearhead and they have often pushed for what our media talking heads would call inaction or pacifism.

7/4/2009 9:38:58 PM

^^ Troops around the world, by the nature of being troops, are always in danger. I wasn't trying to imply fuck the troops, i was talking more about actions that would involve our political system.

7/5/2009 2:52:40 AM

Also, nukes really aren't that big of a concern right now. I'd be much more worried about about chemical munitions (there is a reason I sleep with a gas mask under my bed)

7/5/2009 2:55:28 AM

Quote :

"I'd be much more worried about about chemical munitions (there is a reason I sleep with a gas mask under my bed)"

I hope you're joking about the mask. Chemical weapons are extremely ineffective and rely on an almost perfect storm to even be remotely effective.

7/5/2009 3:01:35 AM

the world is yawning right now...give us something to shoot down


[Edited on July 5, 2009 at 3:12 AM. Reason : \/ know* but pwnt imo with the armchair thing]

7/5/2009 3:06:12 AM

^^ I'm stationed in Korea. Also, pretty knowledgeable about types of chemicals out there, and no some of them can really fuck your day up.

However, if you feel like playing armchair general on defensive strategies against Chemical Munitions, you go right ahead.

[Edited on July 5, 2009 at 3:10 AM. Reason : a]

7/5/2009 3:08:58 AM

Quote :

"^^ I'm stationed in Korea. Also, pretty knowledgeable about types of chemicals out there, and no some of them can really fuck your day up. However, if you feel like playing armchair general on defensive strategies against Chemical Munitions, you go right ahead."

Yea, you are the only person on these forums to have been in the military. You, being in the military, automatically makes you an expert on anything related to warfare. Have you attended any courses at the CRBNS? Are you chem officer or nco? Sounds like your the one playing general... Of course, having nbc gear under your bed in Korea isn't crazy, but I would hazard a guess that most people don't know you, or where you live.

So please sir, enlighten us on your vast knowledge of chemical weapons and their deployment. Of course there are nasty chemical weapons, but deploying them effectively is something very, very tricky to do. I would especially like to know how chemical weapons are more of a threat than nuclear weapons. Spouting off stupid shit like that makes you lose pretty much all credibility. You have protection and even a possibility of warning against chemical attacks, you may actually, you know, survive. No amount of training or equipment is going to save your ass against a nuke set off in your neighborhood.

7/5/2009 5:14:56 AM

I never claimed to be an expert.

However,

Quote :

"Chemical weapons are extremely ineffective and rely on an almost perfect storm to even be remotely effective."

Is the one of the most retarded statement I have ever seen in my life. A chemically laden scud could do some serious fucking damage.

Quote :

"Of course there are nasty chemical weapons, but deploying them effectively is something very, very tricky to do"

They're called scuds and mortars. Welcome to the 80s.

Quote :

"I would especially like to know how chemical weapons are more of a threat than nuclear weapons."

That's asinine. Nuclear weapons are much worse than chemical. However, guess which one North Korea has in massive abundance, an effective delivery system for, and can actually fit on a rocket at this point in time.

Guess which one we should be more worried about at this point in time.

Quote :

"You have protection and even a possibility of warning against chemical attacks, you may actually, you know, survive. "

A scud could hit my base in about 5 minutes, the more northern bases, a lot sooner. I hope none of us well trained troops are far away from our chem gears. Also hope all those citizens in Seoul and other major cities have the exact same chem gear as I do.

Quote :

"No amount of training or equipment is going to save your ass against a nuke set off in your neighborhood."

A direct nuclear blast, no. Hell, for that matter a direct hit from a conventional mortar or a sniper rifle. Your point? You can survive the fall out of the low yield nuke depending on where you are and your ability to get rad meds.

[Edited on July 5, 2009 at 6:17 AM. Reason : a]

7/5/2009 6:16:46 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack
Man, guess that perfect storm needed for chemical weapons to be effective was there.



Replace the bombs dropped from aircraft to mortars and artillery shells.
Replace Halabja with Seoul, Incheon, Sokcho, an any other major city close to the border.
Perhaps everyone will get lucky and that perfect storm won't be there.

7/5/2009 6:43:51 AM

north korea has to realize though that they only have that first strike capability, after which they would be summarily annihilated.

7/5/2009 10:34:00 AM

Wouldn't it take a few weeks for us to turn the tables?

7/6/2009 4:05:44 PM

Still waiting on Ytsejam's follow up on the "ineffectiveness" of chemical weapons.

7/7/2009 12:00:40 AM

Quote :

" So, let's get some parameters here: What circumstances would it take for you to support an overwhelming attack on North Korea, whether it be nuclear or otherwise?"

You know, I saw a story about the way the North treats its people. For as much as Kim Jong Il is regarded as a madman, the system there is deviously genius. It's pretty simple, though -- if you commit a crime, then you and your entire family and locked away in a concentration camp, never to be seen again. Thinking about escaping to the South? Even if you make it, your whole family back home is gone. It's a sick kind of viral effect, enough to control a whole population for sure.

How does a man like Kim Jong Il stay in power so long? Probably by dividing power amongst his top generals and using extreme paranoia and tactics like the above to keep them fighting amongst each other and scared shitless at all times.

How do you pacify a man like Kim Jong Il? Let him appear strong to his clique, let him make threats, but concede just so much at the bargaining table, time after time. Then turn to your electorate / body politic / whatever and talk tough, say this time we won concessions and next time it'll be different. Wash, rinse, repeat, year after year. Over time, you develop a delicate calculus, a dance with the devil that seems credible on the surface.

The problem with this approach -- aside from the tremendous humanitarian and moral tragedy it has enabled, no minor thing -- is that it amounts to slow-motion appeasement, and we've seen how that turns out in the end.

I think the real problem with NK has been the continual failure of the world's political leaders and its people to see the inherent danger of appeasement, and to stop playing poker. Negotiation in this instance either draws out the inevitable, and leads NK's people to perpetual misery and the world to perpetual uncertainty or, worse, it enables the moment where Kim Jong Il finally overplays his hand and turns violent.

So, ... the circumstances are ... the sooner the better. Frankly I suspect it's going to be done eventually. The only question is at what price.

[Edited on July 7, 2009 at 1:57 AM. Reason : foo]

7/7/2009 1:53:21 AM

I have the perfect solution. Put together an unstoppable team of special forces with everything to prove and nothing to prove. Send them deep into Northern territory, sneaking into Kim Jong Il's bedroom in the deep of night. Sneak into his room and TURN ON HIS MOTHERFUCKING FAN. Problem solved.

7/7/2009 10:53:24 PM

^Yeah, the fan will suck all of the oxygen out of the room and kill him. That's what Koreans believe*

*seriously, look it up.

7/8/2009 11:35:13 AM

S. Korea to step up defense against nuclear-generated electromagnetic threats

Quote :

"SEOUL, June 24 (Yonhap) -- South Korea plans to step up its defenses against the threat of an electromagnetic pulse (EMP), which could paralyze its high-tech weapons systems in the event of a nuclear blast, a source said Wednesday."

http://tinyurl.com/nozh2l

7/14/2009 5:41:32 AM

did anyone read the article yesterday about how kim jong il might have terminal pancreatic cancer?

7/14/2009 12:22:31 PM

Heard it on BBC in the car. They gave him 5 years tops.

7/14/2009 12:51:12 PM

They said only 20% of pancreatic cancer patients make it a year. He was believed to be diagnosed when he had his stroke, about a year ago.

7/14/2009 1:10:40 PM

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004927.html

Quote :

"US Ignored Warnings of Cyber Attack DPRK-propoganda2.jpg Advance information did not prompt a response. The U.S. Government now admits they did not properly handle the situation. Sources have revealed that the South Korean government knew in advance that the distributed denial of service (DDoS) attacks that hit multiple web sites of major institutions in South Korea had begun earlier in the United States. Late last week South Korea's intelligence agency briefed its lawmakers on circumstantial and technical evidence behind their belief that North Korea was behind the recent cyber attacks. Other intelligence sources went as far as to state that Kim Chong Un, the third son of North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il, was the mastermind of the cyber attacks that have hit government computers in the United States, South Korea and other some 14 other countries. Foreign intelligence sources have also reported that the North Korean government sent a cyber contingent of approximately a dozen people across the northern border into China to conduct some of the operations and that Kim Chong Un actually was in commanded of that unit. Also sources have speculated that North Korean Research and Development Unit (110 or 101) and Cyber Warfare Unit 121 were the primary military units involved in the planning and execution of the DDoS style cyber attack. At least one Republican lawmaker urged President Obama to take retaliatory action (cyber attacks) against North Korea for the cyber attacks launched last week. Given the extremely limited telecommunication infrastructure (estimated 1.18 million phone lines) and the limited Internet connectivity (given the less than 80,000 broadband connections) a cyber attack would be next to useless. After studying and researching the cyber attacks the following observations are offered. 1. The current U.S. defenses against cyber attack are woefully inadequate against even moderate level attacks as we have just experienced. 2. The fact that these attacks were well-coordinated, lasted as long as they did and were able to bring down a number of sites says more about the state of our defenses than the moderate rated offensive cyber capabilities of North Korea. 3. This clearly shows the need for the international agreement for cyber attack investigation cooperation that has been called for by many cyber warfare experts including me. These attacks were routed/launched through compromised computers in 16 countries. 4. Reports that the Department of Defense was not alerted to the attacks and found out through the media indicate that better coordination between DOD, DHS, DOJ and other government organizations as well as the private sector is critical in times of cyber attack and therefore must be improved and maintained. 5. There are unconfirmed reports for typically reliable sources that a South Korean intelligence agency has obtained documents ordering North Korean army units to start the cyber attack. If true, this could be the smoking gun! Once verified, that would open the way for retaliatory action."

7/14/2009 4:16:31 PM

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/20/us.north.korea/index.html

Quote :

"In that interview, Clinton said North Korea has a "constant demand for attention," and she added, "maybe it's the mother in me, the experience I've had with small children and teenagers and people who are demanding attention: Don't give it to them.""

7/20/2009 10:16:39 PM

^that's kind of bad ass

7/21/2009 1:53:57 AM

lol that actually is pretty cool

7/21/2009 2:09:40 AM

yea i had a chuckle when i read that because that is what i have been saying this entire thread and this entire ordeal with NK.

7/21/2009 9:04:01 AM

Quote :

"N. Korea: Clinton 'funny lady, by no means intelligent'"

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/23/us.north.korea/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

hahahaha lmao sounds like she hit close to home on that one.

7/23/2009 12:03:20 PM

LOL.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/as_clinton_asia

Quote :

"North Korea's Foreign Ministry, still smarting from an earlier Clinton comment likening the regime to "small children" demanding attention, released a statement Thursday saying: "We cannot but regard Mrs. Clinton as a funny lady as she likes to utter such rhetoric, unaware of the elementary etiquette in the international community. Sometimes she looks like a primary schoolgirl and sometimes a pensioner going shopping." "

Now they're resorting to name-calling. North Korea really is the 3rd grader of planet earth.

7/23/2009 1:20:17 PM

I believe that would be the schoolyard equivalent of "nanny nanny poopoo, stick your head in doodoo."

What a joke.

7/23/2009 7:46:02 PM

maybe NK is that guy in elementary school that always teased the girl he had a crush on

7/23/2009 9:29:59 PM

Bill Clinton Heading to North Korea

Quote :

"Former President Bill Clinton was headed to North Korea to negotiate the release of two American television journalists who were sentenced to 12 years of hard labor for illegally entering North Korean territory, according to a person who was briefed on the trip."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/04/world/asia/04korea.html

8/4/2009 12:30:04 AM

hes there now actually

from howard kurtz's facebook post:

Quote :

"I doubt Bill Clinton would be going to N Korea unless a deal was in the works to free the two journalists. Just an educated guess."

one can only hope

[Edited on August 4, 2009 at 12:36 AM. Reason : .]

8/4/2009 12:31:08 AM

Report: N. Korea to free 2 U.S. journalists
Announcement of pardon comes after Bill Clinton meets with Kim Jong Il

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32277010/ns/world_news-asiapacific/?GT1=43001

8/4/2009 3:56:33 PM

Let 'em go Kim, or they'll send my wife!

8/4/2009 3:57:49 PM

Quick! Someone find a way to make this into Bill Clinton doing something wrong!

Ooh! Even better - Obama's an even worse prez than Bill because at least Bill was able to get the Journos freed. Am I right?

8/4/2009 3:58:32 PM

^ I have no desire to do that, but this had to be at least a little awkward:

Quote :

"BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- North Korea launched a scathing personal attack on U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Thursday after she likened the leadership in Pyongyang to 'small children and unruly teenagers and people who are demanding attention.'"

Quote :

"At a meeting of southeast Asian nations in Phuket, Thailand, a North Korean Foreign Ministry spokesman blasted Clinton for what he called a 'spate of vulgar remarks unbecoming for her position everywhere she went since she was sworn in,' according to the state-run KCNA news agency. The spokesman called Clinton 'by no means intelligent' and a 'funny lady.' 'Sometimes she looks like a primary schoolgirl and sometimes a pensioner going shopping,' the statement said."

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/23/us.north.korea/

[Edited on August 4, 2009 at 4:11 PM. Reason : Meh, North Korea specializes in insulting Western leaders.]

8/4/2009 4:10:16 PM

apparently gore asked clinton to go

[Edited on August 4, 2009 at 11:19 PM. Reason : ^haha i wondered about that earlier today.]

8/4/2009 11:19:20 PM

I assume the trip was a lot like those old Bond movies and Clinton would just shoot North Korean women a look and then they'd cut forward 20 minutes to the two of them in bed smoking and Bill making a one liner.

8/5/2009 9:42:59 AM

NK is going to be a country populated by little Bill Clintons 9 months from now.

8/5/2009 10:08:45 AM

8/5/2009 11:01:09 AM

Current TV's been running some of those girls' documentaries today. Just watched one on Uighurs that was really interesting.

8/5/2009 1:53:17 PM

Quote :

"As president, Mr. Clinton had sent Mr. Kim a letter of condolence on the death of his father, Kim Il-sung, according to a former official. For Mr. Kim, the former official said, freeing the women was a “reciprocal humanitarian gesture.”"

thats cool

8/5/2009 6:04:48 PM

that "press conference" with those women was so glaringly fake and contrived it wasn't even funny. I shudder to think just how bad the other woman would have been if the one they had speaking was the better speaker. I think Hillary's tears during the primary campaign were more convincing.

8/5/2009 10:04:56 PM

bump

12/18/2009 6:08:10 AM

This CBS News video paints a disturbing picture of what would happen in the event of an attack by North Korea on South Korea:

http://tinyurl.com/y922hsn

While this scenario is unlikely, it's not impossible. The death toll would be very high and the devastation would be tremendous.

12/18/2009 6:23:06 AM

http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-guide-to-travel/vice-guide-to-north-korea-1-of-3

Crazy

1/19/2010 9:47:53 AM

^ Wow. Just finished part 3.

That's absolutely insane.

1/20/2010 2:18:17 AM

North and South Korea exchange fire at border
Wednesday, 27, Jan 2010

Quote :

"North and South Korea are reported to have exchanged artillery fire near a disputed sea border. According to South Korea's news agency Yonhap, Pyongyang fired shells into the sea near Baengnyeong Island off the south's western coast on Wednesday morning. A Seoul presidential official said the south responded almost immediately, although no casualties have yet been reported on either side. North Korea has claimed the initial firing was part of an annual drill and resolutely stated it would continue in the near future. The south though said hours after the initial exchange further shells were fired in the direction of the disputed sea border. The latest clash comes a day after Pyongyang declared a naval exclusion zone around the border in the Yellow Sea waters. The border has been the sources of continued tension ever since the United Nations drew up a new boundary limit at the end of the 1950-53 Korean war."

http://tinyurl.com/y9xfnop

1/27/2010 7:14:50 AM

So, assuming that N. Korea did decide to get stupid and attack the South Koreans openly, would China come in and save their asses again?

1/27/2010 8:46:46 AM

This is just typical North Korean posturing. As bad as it may sound, it's pretty tame compared to the stunts they've pulled in the past. You know, commando attacks on the Blue House (Korean presidential palace), bombing airliners, botched presidential assassination that blew up two thirds of the cabinet, chopping up US soldiers with hatchets, regular shelling on the DMZ, minisub infiltrations, and tunnels large enough to drive tanks through... just to name a few.

1/27/2010 12:09:55 PM

Quote :

"North Korea: Shelling near South was drill ..... North Korea's state-run media said the shelling was part of its annual military training. "Artillery units of the Korean People's Army staged an annual artillery live shell firing drill in waters of the West Sea of Korea Wednesday morning," the KCNA news agency said. "No one can argue about the premeditated exercises staged by KPA units in waters of the north side. Such firing drill by the units of the KPA will go on in the same waters in the future, too." That exchange came a day after North Korea declared a "no sail zone" in a disputed area of the Yellow Sea, Yonhap said."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/01/26/koreas.artillery/index.html?iref=allsearch

Oddly enough, they volunteered to sign a peace treaty in an exchange for the dropping of sanctions a few weeks ago:

Quote :

"North Korea urges peace treaty, wants sanctions dropped North Korea on Monday proposed replacing the 1953 armistice that ended the Korean War with a formal peace treaty, a step it said would pave the way for breaking the international impasse over its nuclear program. But the communist state said international sanctions imposed after a series of nuclear weapons and missile tests should be lifted before it returns to the negotiating table, a suggestion the United States quickly dismissed. The cease-fire that ended the three-year Korean War never led to a permanent peace treaty, leaving the North Korean-South Korean border the world's most heavily militarized frontier. In a statement carried by the official news agency KCNA, North Korea said that a final settlement of the conflict is "essential" to talks aimed at persuading it to dismantle its nuclear program. "When the parties are in the state of war where they level guns at each other, distrust in the other party can never be wiped out, and the talks themselves can never make smooth progress, much less realizing the denuclearization," it said. "Without settling such [an] essential and fundamental issue as war and peace, no agreement can escape from frustration and failure as now." Pyongyang has refused to return to the talks, which also involve the United States, Russia, China, South Korea and Japan, insisting that it wants to talk directly with the U.S. government. But Washington says it will not lift sanctions or normalize relations with the North until it takes irreversible steps toward dismantling its nuclear program. "We're not going to pay North Korea for coming back to the six-party process," State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said Monday."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/01/11/north.korea.nuclear/index.html?iref=allsearch

1/27/2010 1:33:32 PM