Quote :

"Immediately the figure out the exact time that this event happens to everybody......yet nobody makes any effort whatsoever to send any sort of message back to themselves?"

this has been addressed, but to your credit knowing so would have required you to read the spoilers.

11/2/2009 9:55:30 AM

Quote :

"and the director was taking a shit ?"

yeah he was telling himself that "shit's about to fly" on that day.

11/2/2009 11:11:51 AM

^^What spoilers are you talking about? If you're referring to the book discussion, I still say those aren't spoilers because it's so different from the show. And weren't you the one that made the mspaint cloud picture calling mambagrl out for being too stupid to differentiate?

As far as the actual discussion on if it's a plot hole or not, I wouldn't mind actually getting some "non-spoiler" discussion on why or why not people think that it's a plot hole. Personally, I can't get over wondering why everyone on the planet didn't receive flashbacks of themselves looking at crib sheets of all the sports scores and stock reports for the last 6 months.

11/2/2009 11:18:27 AM

oh god, lost season 5 thread all over again

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11/2/2009 11:20:45 AM

^^ um, clearly because they all watched Back to the Future, Part II. Can't fuck up that space-time continuum.

Please pose a legitimate question next time if you want to facilitate discussion.

11/2/2009 3:14:43 PM

well, i haven't read any books or spoiler material, but I would guess that the things they saw were from the future that would have happened with no changes in behavior based on what they saw... and if they changed what they were doing that day, it wouldn't matter because they already saw the previous vision. (if that makes any sense)

11/2/2009 3:47:44 PM

I think I get what you're trying to say, but it just doesn't make any sense that way for one big reason that I can think of: the investigation wall. The fact that the agent sees himself investigating the source of the flashforward means that they had already taken place in that future. So it's not like we were seeing a flashforward of a future that would have happened if the FF didn't take place.

Which means if the future they saw was derived from a point on the timeline after the FF took place, the question isn't "why wouldn't they look at sports scores this time around?", but "why weren't they looking at sports scores the 'first' time around?"

11/2/2009 4:11:49 PM

i did make the cloud picture for her but namely because she was complaining about spoilers in regards to comments that were in very loose relation. also when i said reading the spoilers would be necessary it is evident i meant the information located within spoiler tags, such as that.

11/2/2009 4:50:48 PM

So...can we talk about the show now?

11/2/2009 4:52:47 PM

There are a lot of assumptions being made.

we don't know what everyone in the FF world is doing. Someone somewhere could be tracking sporting events, stocks, whatever in hopes that when they get to the future point of the flashforward... what? The past version of themselves will see them holding the sheet of paper with everything written on it and then they suddenly become wealthy? If they were wealthy, they wouldn't have been living the same life. They would have had to have placed the bets, picked up the money, etc. The whole instant change thing can get really messy.

You can avoid that with multiple time lines. But then what's the point? you're helping a different version of yourself get rich. This is all assuming that they can actually change what happened.


It's also been suggested that people have already used their FF to change things. Someone here suggested that Benford may have been in his office that late at night looking at the board because he knew the FF was going to happen and this would allow him to see a lot of the clues. It could be that originally, he had found all of those clues in months 4-5. Now he has found a bunch within a matter of weeks. Maybe he is changing the rate at which the case is progressing and in turn changing the future.


I would expect people around the world to think of all sorts of possibilities regarding their ability to change things. But I wouldn't expect the show itself to go along with it. They could have more characters going with bat shit crazy ideas. But then they have to take time from the main story.


And I see the idea of, "well they had to start the investigation somewhere and the FF was the catalyst." But that doesn't necessarily mean that the FF can actually cause any kind of change.

let's say a record is playing from start to finish on a turntable that you have no control over. At some point you see 10 seconds into the future for 5 seconds, and then go back to where you would have been otherwise. There's 5 seconds of music you never got to hear. But you heard 5 seconds that's about to come up. You can't change what's going to be played, but you know it's coming and have to listen to it again.

For that to be comparable, you have to go with more of a "fate/destiny" explanation.


I don't know. I actually hate that this show may end up dealing with changing time/not changing things, etc. when Lost is in it's final season and has a lot of that going on. Especially on the same fucking channel and with 2 of the same actors.

Maybe ABC will show the new Star Trek, Lost, and this shit all in the same night.


Also, I don't think it was the hobbit at the baseball stadium. It didn't seem like he was lying to the girl. And it wasn't the dad. So, that means someone new.

11/2/2009 5:03:51 PM

it was me.

11/2/2009 8:13:48 PM

i think i figured out one thing
what if in their flash forward someone was sleeping
wouldnt they see what they were dreaming about, and hence some people see dreams not reality
which would explain how some people saw things that couldnt not possibly come true

oh yeah, im da man

11/2/2009 11:22:46 PM

They've discussed that at least twice in the show.

11/3/2009 1:18:24 AM

i'm done. this show is horrible. maybe the book will be better because it won't be 95% banal filler.

11/3/2009 2:31:07 AM

plot hole:

now that we know charlie's FF. Why was she scared and how does she know "D. Gibbons is a bad man"? All she was doing in the future was teling Dillon its his house too while the dad sat on the couch reading and her mom said "hey baby"

11/4/2009 11:25:13 PM

plot holes are almost the opposite of unanswered questions.

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11/4/2009 11:42:02 PM

^^ we haven't seen charlie's FF. We've seen Dillon's (?). Charlie wasn't in the entirety of his FF, so she was obviously off doing something else.

11/5/2009 12:08:59 AM

ya but nobod can be doing two different things in FF's. If charlie interacts with Dillon in Dillon's FF then we know its the same in Charlie's FF. They only last a few minutes. I guess you are assuming when she went to the other room, men in masks has simultaneously grabbed her as they grabbed her dad at the office without making any noise (dillon, penelope and dad didn't notice anything). but still, how would that tell her anything about d. gibbons?

[Edited on November 5, 2009 at 12:23 AM. Reason : how do the children even know the names of each other and dillon know olivia's name? huge hole]

11/5/2009 12:23:17 AM

christ. I'm not assuming anything, you are.

Dillon was in the kitchen for a bit before she came in. He had time to read the address on the fridge and memorize it. Maybe she was in her dad's office and there was a note that said "D. Gibbons is a bad man." --- we really have no idea. So i'm saying, we don't know. You're making an assumption.

And yes, so far we're being led to believe there aren't any discrepancies in the FFs and that they are all true. However, they pulled the shit a couple of weeks ago where the dialogue was different in the beginning of the show than the end (same scene). I don't know why they did that, but it makes me think that things can be changed. Maybe they saw 2 different FFs, maybe they just varied slightly, maybe they saw the exact same FF. But we didn't see where charlie was or what she was doing for the majority of Dillion's FF. They could explain the d. gibbons things a million different ways.

Another thing, which may answer your question about the names, there were some things which people claimed to just know. Like Benford said that he could tell he'd been drinking for a while I think. That it wasn't a one time thing. His wife said that she had feelings for him and knew she was with him.

It's possible that the FF had a greater effect on children. And some of those things "they just knew" were more prevalent in the children. I don't really know, just speculating. But again, unanswered =/= plot hole.

I haven't seen anyone post an actual plot hole yet. Not saying there aren't any, but i haven't seen any in this thread.

11/5/2009 12:44:47 AM

i agree with ^^ except that perhaps the children see more of the FF than the adults

^the chinese guy and his girlfriends FF is obviously not on par, i think that some of these people, like his girlfriend and the pregnant chick, were dreaming

11/5/2009 2:20:16 AM

^ you're agreeing with her that it's plot hole that we don't know how Charlie knew to say "D. Gibbons is a bad man?"

with the chinese guy and his girl; she didn't actually see the guy she was marrying. she just knew it was her wedding day and she was walking toward someone, who she assumed was the chinese guy.

11/5/2009 2:39:21 AM

^i was agreeing that charlie and dillon saw each other and knew each other

as far as the chinese guy's girlfriend, lets call her betsy, why would she be at the wedding when the other dude is dead months before
he supposedly dies way before the FF time, so right there it says something is not right
i think she was dreaming about what it would have been
also what is the chance that their wedding is going on exactly on the FF date

what i actually think is he doesnt die but is blacked out from drinking

11/5/2009 3:13:15 AM

oh yeah, charlie and dillion definitely saw and knew each other.

hard to say about gabriel union (betsy). My whole point with mambagrl was that she was making the conclusion that it's a plot hole based on assumptions. I'd rather not make assumptions and just say "we don't know yet."

But some possibilities are:

She's not at her wedding (i think she said she thought it was her wedding)
Maybe she's weird and follows through with a ceremony in memorial to him
maybe it is a memorial or his funeral.
Maybe he doesn't die and she marries him
Maybe he gets killed and some super crazy thing takes his form and that's who she marries (it is sci fi afterall).
could be that he was just asleep for some reason.
blacked-out drunk

11/5/2009 4:05:36 PM

TODAY WE ARE ALL THE FAMOUS JETT JACKSON

11/5/2009 10:09:03 PM

holy mother of god the main dude is a horrible, horrible actor

i guess the solution is to start killing off all the better actors (POUR A LITTLE OUT FOR JETT JACKSON)

if so the director dude better watch his ass, Harold might live though, he's possibly bad enough

also where the hell did seth mcfarlane go?

11/5/2009 10:30:57 PM

I thought that was a fantastic episode... by far the best one yet. Though the ending was a bit of a stretch... has to be either a hallucination or a twin he never knew he had (which would be cliche and stupid).

11/5/2009 10:40:23 PM

the episode was pretty good. I hate that they killed that guy off. I thought he was one of the better actors on the show (really just based on this episode, he hasn't been in too much of the rest).

seems like they're definitely going with the nothing set in stone route. that really opens up a lot of doors.

11/6/2009 12:24:27 AM

good episode, changes everything
so what of the future FF will now be void cause of this
looks like the main dude and his wife might not have their problem
and the FF of the chinese guy's girlfriend dont show him in it, so thats still a "?"

11/6/2009 12:28:54 AM

PLOT TWIST! wondered how long it would be before someone tried to change their flashforward so drastically.

and i feel like the asian guy is just black out from his bachelor's party the night before. ha.

11/7/2009 1:15:26 PM

Asian guy could also be locked up in a pitch black room...

Doesn't explain the phone call that told him he would die from 3 gunshot wounds to the chest, but that could've been to mess with his head.

Either way, this episode changed a future that was seen by two separate people. I think they're gonna start going into goofy parallel universes and shit.

11/7/2009 1:45:48 PM

the one thing you can say is that the chinese guy did not get a call until he put his story on mosaic

why would that lady wait to see his story on mosaic before contacting him
wouldnt she have done it anyways, perhaps she did it to make him think he was gonna die

11/7/2009 6:14:29 PM

isn't the lady that called him the same lady that was working on the rutherford case with the dude that just killed himself?

11/7/2009 8:54:01 PM

did you even watch the whole episode?

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11/7/2009 9:00:48 PM

the lady that called roldie was older than the bird into the window lady

11/7/2009 9:16:49 PM

she was also a jap if i recall correctly

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11/7/2009 9:21:06 PM

yeah i watched it all. i just didn't feel like going back and looking at anything myself. it's easier to ask tww, and worth the couple of insults i get for being incompetent as long as i get my answer.

11/7/2009 10:24:53 PM

she was in hong kong so that makes her a jap

11/8/2009 12:09:01 PM

she looked asian.

90% of asians who are on tv are supposed to be japs. see: that chick in the other doctors memories, or the fact that the babysitter knew japanese/comforted that Japanese patient.

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11/8/2009 12:11:07 PM

you're assuming someone is japanese because they are an asian in hong kong and there were japanese in another plotline on the same show. strong logic.

11/8/2009 12:58:09 PM

Wait a minute, she was in hong kong, China... so she's japanese? The chick didn't look asian at all to me. She looked like she was maybe middle eastern.

just looked it up, the actress is from Iran. She was in The House of Saddam. So yea, probably not japanese.

[Edited on November 8, 2009 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2009 2:10:40 PM

rather uneventful episode

11/12/2009 10:46:18 PM

rather uneventful episode series

11/12/2009 11:01:21 PM

Didn't think it was too bad... I like where it's going but how stupid can Benford be? Seriously...

11/12/2009 11:17:43 PM

after knowing i had seen dude with the autistic kid before, i finally realized when he said something during the poker-game-setup-conversation that he was the guy in the Pirates of the Carribean movies

11/13/2009 7:05:59 PM

so what's the story with the rings? Any ideas? I'm thinking along the lines of Captain Planet.

11/16/2009 9:55:03 PM

lol first thing I thought of was HOLY SHIT CAPTAIN PLANET

11/16/2009 9:59:08 PM

^^^ haha, i recognized him immediately, but yeah something he said at that time was definitely commodore norrington-ish

11/17/2009 9:50:02 PM

Last time I checked Hong Kong was in China.

11/18/2009 9:52:32 AM

the rings keep them from blacking out?

11/18/2009 11:15:38 AM

THANKS FOR SPOILING IT FOR EVERYBODY ELSE!

11/18/2009 11:39:24 AM