Enough of all this debate about percentages. This is Chit Chat...

BRING ON THE RACISM!!!

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:18 AM. Reason : 5]

8/23/2010 11:18:14 AM

I'm trying to figure out how you decide who to give bad service to considering that your tip comes AFTER the meal

it seems like you've decided how much you're going to earn right from the beginning

8/23/2010 11:18:23 AM

^^^

1. Bragging about your average tip rate is blatantly bratty. And pathetic.

2. 15-20 percent (occasionally more) is not cheap.

Forming some sort of insult coalition with your server buddies where you start calling people cheap in order to pervert reality and increase your income is fucking bullshit.

8/23/2010 11:20:07 AM

Quote :

"BRING ON THE RACISM!!!"

Europeans are the worst tippers on the planet. I'd rather have one black customer than a dozen Germans. And the thing is, you know they got money and you know they know that they're supposed to tip, but they damn well don't.

Add to that their frequently unusual demands and their general haughtiness and you have a recipe for me serving them last.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:24 AM. Reason : the irony of krauts acting like a jewish stereotype is not lost on me]

8/23/2010 11:23:11 AM

Quote :

"I always tip well (15-20ish percent)"

I think the point of contention is all of these servers not considering that "tipping well", and having an attitude of 15% being "cheap" rather than "normal and expected", and 20% being the minimum.

8/23/2010 11:24:46 AM

Quote :

"BRING ON THE RACISM!!!"

I tried...



http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/8173902/

Quote :

"Apex woman reports racial slur on pizza receipt Apex, N.C. — An Apex woman who reported finding a racial slur printed on a pizza delivery receipt says she is getting harassing phone calls. Carla Robinson ordered two pizzas Friday from Domino's Pizza near Ten Ten Road. She said when the pizza delivery driver left, her 10-year-old niece brought the receipt to her attention. Robinson said the "N" word followed by "DON'T TIP" was printed on the receipt. She reported the incident and says she has since received more than a dozen harassing calls. “They were saying basically the same stuff that was on the receipt. They were saying 'N-this, you got me fired, you did this, you did that,' just being real ugly to me, just being real mean,” Robinson said. “I’m thinking it is 2010, it's never good to do that. You can't do stuff like that anymore."

Uh oh!
Somebody better alert William Barber, lol.

8/23/2010 11:25:01 AM

Quote :

"I'd rather have one black customer than a dozen Germans"

lol... you just implicitly typed "I'd rather have a dozen Germans than TWO black customers"

8/23/2010 11:25:57 AM

^^^^^You are dumb.

You say this:

Quote :

"You fuckers regularly tipping 20-25 percent are ridiculous."

Tipping 20% is ridiculous?? That should honestly be the average. Having said that, I'm okay with 15%...but 20% is not ridiculous. But you say that 20% is ridiculous, and then you say this:

Quote :

"2. 15-20 percent (occasionally more) is not cheap."

So is 20% ridiculous or just not cheap?? I'm confused. I also never said that 15-20% is cheap...you are putting words in my mouth. I basically said "not tipping $1 on a $9 beer is cheap." So are you disagreeing with me when I say that not tipping is cheap?? Because that, to me, is "ridiculous."

Quote :

"1. Bragging about your average tip rate is blatantly bratty. And pathetic."

I would probably call it more "bragging" than "bratty"...but whatever makes you feel better. It was just a counter towards you calling me "bratty". Because in order to above average tips, you have to either provide exceptional service and be very personable, or you need to be an extremely hot female with a great body. I'm not a female, so I'll go with the former. I'm just saying a bratty prick doesn't average high tips. I can be a prick on t-dub, but not behind the bar.

Quote :

"Forming some sort of insult coalition with your server buddies where you start calling people cheap in order to pervert reality and increase your income is fucking bullshit. "

What the fuck does this even mean?? If you honestly think that people who don't normally tip, or tip low, will raise the amount they tip because they know they get picked on by servers, then you are fucking retarded. If anything, they will tip less or not at all, because they share your shitty attitude.



[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:31 AM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 11:29:45 AM

My goal was to imply that I can probably expect more total tips from "x" number of black people than I can from 12x German people.

8/23/2010 11:29:47 AM

8/23/2010 11:31:20 AM

Quote :

"I'm sure your money is earned a lot harder than a server/bartender..."

You have gotta be shitting me. Being a server/bartender is hardly backbreaking.

8/23/2010 11:32:03 AM

The difference between germans and black people are that black people are educated about tipping and choose not to, whereas, germans are in a foreign country and don't know the unwritten laws of tipping.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:33 AM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 11:33:17 AM

I tipped jbrick 5 percent once, he mouthed "cheapskate" under his breath, and then I gave him till the count of 10 before I pumped his guts full of lead.

8/23/2010 11:33:45 AM

Quote :

"You have gotta be shitting me. Being a server/bartender is hardly backbreaking."

Have you ever been one?? Serious question.

8/23/2010 11:34:03 AM

Quote :

"he mouthed "cheapskate" under his breath,"

You're crazy if you think "cheapskate" is what I muttered. I'm much harsher than that.

8/23/2010 11:34:50 AM

Quote :

"Being a server/bartender is hardly backbreaking"

Not sure about serving, but bartending (especially owning a bar) is pretty serious imo

8/23/2010 11:34:59 AM

^^^No, but I got fucking mortared 3x last week.


^ Sure, compared to being a receptionist.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:36 AM. Reason : ]

8/23/2010 11:35:32 AM

Quote :

"in order to above average tips, you have to either provide exceptional service "

No you don't, you just have to be lucky enough to work behind a bar. Everyone makes bank back there.



Also, yes, I have been a waiter, and I thought that the tips I received (when I first started) were a direct result of the service they thought I provided... At first. That being said, with all the tips and tables and whatnot I waited (which is not backbreaking at all), I made hella good money for a guy working tables.

So shut up, you make damn good money for what you do.

8/23/2010 11:36:20 AM

Server pwnt. Stay home.

8/23/2010 11:36:21 AM

Nothing is lamer than people in the armed forces wanting extra credit for simply doing their jobs.

Its not like you got drafted, so shut the fuck up.

8/23/2010 11:36:51 AM

... LOL WUT?

8/23/2010 11:37:50 AM

I don't want any extra credit.

The only one around here who quite literally wants extra credit for doing his job is a fucking bartender.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:39 AM. Reason : I'm responding to his statement about his money being so "hard earned", when it is not.]

8/23/2010 11:38:47 AM

isn't a tip "extra credit for doing their jobs"

I mean in an economy that isn't fucking twisted where people are payed a fair and living wage for their labor

like Germany! (that's why they don't tip you)

8/23/2010 11:38:52 AM

Point is, most bartenders actually work harder than 90% of people in corporate jobs

Watch one on a busy night...he'll bust his ass harder than most people ever do

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:40 AM. Reason : x]

8/23/2010 11:38:56 AM

Quote :

"^ Sure, compared to being a receptionist."

Would you consider being a business owner backbreaking work? Because after seeing what my mom went through for 10+ years, I give her props for being able to stick with it that long. By the time you consider picking up anything the bar needs, making the liquor/beer orders, stocking the beer, stocking the liquor, cleaning up before opening, then bartending from 8ish to 2-3 in the morning, then cleaning up, then counting out the drawers, then locking up.. any person would be dog tired.

I don't know, maybe I have a skewed view of it because I saw the owner's side of things for so long..

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:41 AM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 11:39:42 AM

Quote :

"The difference between germans and black people are that black people are educated about tipping and choose not to, whereas, germans are in a foreign country and don't know the unwritten laws of tipping."

The Germans/Europeans know, because the laws aren't unwritten -- they're in every travel guide ever made. And I never had nearly the bad experience with black people tipping that some people claim.

Quote :

"Being a server/bartender is hardly backbreaking."

In the sense of requiring great feats of physical strength, no. But depending on the place it may be pretty high-stress, involving heavy demands on your memory, multitasking ability, and your constant activity than do a lot of better-paying jobs. Let me put it this way, nobody's dicking around on the wolfweb if they're working a dinner rush.

Quote :

"No, but I got fucking mortared 3x last week."

I'm not sure that "Getting mortared" is a reasonable standard for people to complain about their job or pay.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:42 AM. Reason : ]

8/23/2010 11:41:08 AM

^^I'd say it depends on the business.

...and those things aren't the ones that would be stressful and tiring about being a business owner, at least to me.


^ If being a bartender is considered mentally or physically taxing, we have problems in our society.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:54 AM. Reason : ]

8/23/2010 11:41:57 AM

I'll just revert to the old fallback


if you don't like the tips you're getting, go get a real job

8/23/2010 11:42:01 AM

jbrick83, it should be evident that what I'm referring to as ridiculous is the not-so-gradual increase in your tip demands from 15-20 percent to 20-25 percent. I had this argument two year ago, and 15-20 percent was considered good or okay. Two years later, you fuckers are all, "Anything less than 20 percent is cheap! CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP! CHEAP PRICKS! YOU'RE CHEAP! I'll still give you good service, but you're cheap!"

And if anybody is not making sense, it's you. On page four, you act like a dollar ain't shit. It's not even worth waiting for in change after you've been ripped off on a nine-dollar beer; furthermore, you claim that waiting around for our dollar in change makes us "cheap pricks." Well, if a dollar ain't shit, then it ain't shit. I could leave $3 on a $20 tab or $4 on a $20 tab...the difference between a 15 and 20 percent doen't matter either way cause it's just a dollar, right? Everybody you serve could decrease their tips by a dollar, and it would be a "cheap prick" move on your part to complain...cause a dollar ain't shit, according to you.

8/23/2010 11:42:12 AM

A dollar "ain't shit" on a $20+ tab

It does matter when you're talking $3, $4, or $5 for the tip

Then it makes all the difference

8/23/2010 11:43:37 AM

Well of course I left out other things, like the stress of customers, bar fights, payroll, setting up events, etc etc etc.

I'm just going to step out now because my mom also worked 40 hours a week as a paralegal during half that time, and 40 hours at our other business during the other half so maybe she's just superwoman

8/23/2010 11:43:56 AM

I mean this in the nicest way possible

You work at a crappy bar in a crappy shopping center in a crappy part of town, with college kids.

If you don't like it move on up.

8/23/2010 11:45:15 AM

Quote :

"No, but I got fucking mortared 3x last week."

I knew you were going to re-tort with "In my military job last week, I did RAWR RAWR RAWR!!" I'm not even going to try and argue against that.

But just an example...this is a small synopsis of my bartending job this past Saturday night.

Get into work a little before 6pm. I work at bar at the beach that has outdoor dining, so 1/3 of our bar is open to the outside, which is in the lower 90s for most of the day but feels like its in the lower 100s because of humidity. So I'm working in about 85 degree heat for the majority of the night. Needless to say I lost a few pounds of sweat.

I stocked beer when I first got there. That was about 10-12 cases. I changed two kegs that night. A full kegs weighs about 150-160lbs. We have two big shelves of kegs and both kegs that were changed were on the 2nd shelf. So that was fun. The other bartender and I rang up about $4,000 worth of drinks and food from 6pm to 2 am. And our food/drinks aren't expensive. They range from $2 PBR to $7.75 top-quality tequila. So that's a lot of drinks to serve and ring up. I'm not selling $100 bottles of wine to get to that total. During that time, I'm also refilling the beer coolers, ice bins, and taking bus tubs full of dirty dishes back to the dish pit. Our bar seats 25, so it's extremely long, so it's a lot running/walking back and forth.

At the end of the night (from 2pm to 3pm), it's cleaning up the bar (biggest bar I've ever worked behind, so it's a pain in the ass). That's wiping down every bottle, cleaning every bar mat, cleaning all the tables, putting up all the bar stools, sweeping the front porch, sweeping behind the bar, and mopping behind the bar. Then we have to re-stock the beer for the bar the next morning.

I usually get out between 3-3:30am most nights. So it's about a 9-hour shift with maybe about 30-45 minutes total of not doing anything and just standing for the whole night. No sitting, standing on a hard tiled floor, moving back and forth, sometimes lifting heavy stuff, dealing with drunk/retarded people, with loud-ass music blaring from 10pm on...and about 85-degree heat.

It's not the hardest job in the world, but it's not easy. It's more "back-breaking" than 100% of any office job. Sure, it's surpassed in the "hard" category by lots of other "labor-intensive" jobs, but those people also don't have to deal with drunk idiots.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:55 AM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 11:47:10 AM

Quote :

"N" word followed by "DON'T TIP"

Quote :

"black people are educated about tipping and choose not to"

lol,
reparations for slavery.... one tip at a time

8/23/2010 11:49:39 AM

yeah but what did you MAKE doing that, bar tender?

I used to work as a line/grill cook at a microbrewery and I had to change kegs often too
and for some fucked up reason our keg fridge was UPSTAIRS

it was also INCREDIBLY busy - one night we did $1900 in food in 1 HOUR

I made around $8/hr
so in a night I might earn $64 before taxes

please tell me more about your hard job!

8/23/2010 11:50:42 AM

8/23/2010 11:53:37 AM

Quote :

"No you don't, you just have to be lucky enough to work behind a bar. Everyone makes bank back there."

Not necessarily. Maybe 5 or 6 years ago, but only bartenders at certain restaurants and bars really kill it these days.

Quote :

"On page four, you act like a dollar ain't shit. It's not even worth waiting for in change after you've been ripped off on a nine-dollar beer; furthermore, you claim that waiting around for our dollar in change makes us "cheap pricks." Well, if a dollar ain't shit, then it ain't shit."

You have no reading comprehension skills, whatsoever. A dollar isn't shit. That's why the majority of people say that you should tip a dollar a drink or 15-20% on the final tab. So tipping one dollar on a $9 drink really shouldn't be a big deal. I think it requires extra effort so not tip on a $9 drink. Just hand the person a $10 bill and be done with it. And if you wait for that $1 back, you are not tipping at all. Which is being a cheap prick. So where exactly am I wrong again on that one??

Quote :

"I could leave $3 on a $20 tab or $4 on a $20 tab...the difference between a 15 and 20 percent doen't matter either way cause it's just a dollar, right?"

Pretty much. It's just a dollar. And honestly, that one dollar isn't going to change my view of you. I'll look at you as a normal customer. I think you're confusing me with your distorted view of the average server or bartender (or maybe just the original poster....I would personally NEVER bitch over a $3 tip on a $20 tab...you're definitely not a baller with that kind of tip, but you're not cheap either).

8/23/2010 11:55:01 AM

Quote :

"yeah but what did you MAKE doing that, bar tender? "

That night I think I made around $350. A little less than my average on weekend nights, but we added an extra (un-needed IMO) bartender because we had a popular band and we thought it was going to be busy.

I'm not complaining about the money, I'm just arguing with people who don't think it's a difficult job and there isn't a lot of physical work involved in it.

Quote :

"used to work as a line/grill cook at a microbrewery and I had to change kegs often too and for some fucked up reason our keg fridge was UPSTAIRS it was also INCREDIBLY busy - one night we did $1900 in food in 1 HOUR I made around $8/hr so in a night I might earn $64 before taxes"

That's not my fault you chose to cook on the line. I do sympathize with people in the kitchen. Those fuckers work harder (physically) than anybody in a restaurant...and for considerably less pay. But most of the people also couldn't work behind a bar (not saying you couldn't, but the majority of people on the line would get destroyed trying to work behind the bar).

8/23/2010 11:59:53 AM

Quote :

"I'm fine with that. Although brats don't usually average 30-35% tips behind the bar."

Quote :

". The other bartender and I rang up about $4,000 worth of drinks and food from 6pm to 2 am. "

What are you whining about again?

8/23/2010 12:01:06 PM

^

I'm not whining. I'm just trying to educate people

8/23/2010 12:02:44 PM

I tip expecting that the front of the house has some kind of tip-share with the back of the house

8/23/2010 12:03:37 PM

This argument is bullshit

it really boils down to: what's so wrong with kicking somebody a few bucks?

If you're going broke on tips maybe you're the one that needs a better job lol

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 12:04 PM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 12:04:32 PM

Quote :

"But just an example...this is a small synopsis of my bartending job this past Saturday night."

Sure, it's harder than plenty of jobs...but it's moderately physically taxing at most, carries pretty much zero pressure (as opposed to a lot of those physically easy office jobs), isn't particularly mentally demanding, etc. Most people work at least that long nowadays...that's why the term "bankers' hours" means a skate schedule. I feel like I'm cutting out early if I only work a 9-hour day, even at home in the States.

Basically, it requires no real education, not a lot of skills, and the most demanding parts of it are being on your feet all night and dealing with some douchebag customers. There are easier jobs out there (few of which pay as much as a decent bartending job, I'm guessing), but in any case, bartending is not demanding enough to rate a statement like "I'm sure your money is earned a lot harder than a server/bartender".



^ Nothing is wrong with kicking someone a few bucks. The argument is because servers are complaining about what you and I both defined in this thread as perfectly acceptable tips (you even described it as "tipping well").

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 12:08 PM. Reason : ]

8/23/2010 12:06:13 PM

cooking on the line blows

I made better money working in a steel cable factory without air conditioning and there was less of a risk to my safety and health

I'd get my "tip share" at the end of the night too - it was like $5 or $7

waiters are the house niggers of the restaurant plantation

8/23/2010 12:07:43 PM

Quote :

"tip-share with the back of the house"

That is the stupidest fucking shit I've ever heard of. (about tipping)
Way to show your ignorance.
When I tip a bartender, should they share it with Anheuser-Busch?

(stupid)

8/23/2010 12:08:12 PM

I'd say basically every office job is easier than waiting tables, and that includes "earning" the bullshit education that parents usually pay for lol

I WENT TO COLLEGE AND DRANK MY ASS OFF FOR 5 1/2 YEARS GOD DAMN IT I DESERVE MY PAY

Quote :

"waiters are the house niggers of the restaurant plantation"

haha snewf lives with hipsters in brooklyn for a year or two and is now n-word enabled

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 12:10 PM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 12:09:34 PM

I'm not talking about bartenders there, slick

I'm talking about waiters whose job it is to carry the food that I lovingly prepared (and sweat all over )

8/23/2010 12:09:36 PM

Quote :

"This argument is bullshit it really boils down to: what's so wrong with kicking somebody a few bucks? If you're going broke on tips maybe you're the one that needs a better job lol "

exactly


if you're dumb enough to work a job for shitty pay, that's your fucking problem, not mine.

8/23/2010 12:11:58 PM

^^^ again, depends on the office job

hardly any of them are physically demanding at all (other than potentially long hours), but the pressure and stress in some of them is much worse than something that's fairly menial and only moderately physically taxing.


plus, only a few waiters are really skilled labor (and many of them do it as a long-term, career-level job in nice places where their expertise is valued). most waiters are easily replaceable with pretty much anyone. some jobs pay not only for what you do, but what you are able to do if needed, and to retain you because you're highly skilled and/or specialized, and not easily replaced.

Not trying to run down bartending; just saying that (1) 15%+ is not "cheap", and any expectation of 25-30% is ludicrous, and (2) if you're bringing home a couple hundred bucks or more on a busy night, and a hundred or close to it on a slow night, you have nothing to complain about.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 12:14 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 12:21 PM. Reason : tipping based on a discounted amount, though, is lame...and i do try to tip in cash]

8/23/2010 12:12:21 PM

all over this fucking thread

8/23/2010 12:13:30 PM