Quote :

"I trust the principal over the kids, and he gave them an easy out (can't remember if it was turn the shirts inside out or change, either way), and they refused and got the news involved. Pretty douchebaggy."

Do you remember high school? The principal basically shamed them and told them they had the option of walking around looking like a fucking idiot for the rest of the day. Nobody wants to feel like they look like a fucking idiot; especially a self conscious high school kid.

It's all or nothing. You can't tell kids that the Mexican flag is ok any day of the year, but the American flag is only ok 364 days per year. This lawsuit is just driving the point home to any other overzealous administrators out there to make them think twice before they pull this kind of shit.

6/25/2010 1:12:15 PM

I remember most of my high school administrators being concerned about douchebaggy kids doing things to cause disruptions. Administrators in schools DO have more authority to handle things that are disruptive, as has been backed up by some legal opinions. If this goes to trial, I think it'll be for more interesting to hear the actual facts of the case, rather than the posturing that's being presented right now. Was it disruptive or was it a first amendment issue? Students DO lose some rights when they walk on school grounds, no way around that.

6/25/2010 2:01:39 PM

"Causing a disruption" sounds like an easy blanket term for anything that the school administrators don't like.

I think you're forgetting the most crucial point.
Let's say it was just a black shirt.
And me and my friends are like "FUCK ANYBODY WEARING A BLACK SHIRT".
And then you wear a black shirt anyway.
Who is in the wrong?

What if a gay student wore a shirt with a rainbow flag and it was "causing a disruption"? Would you then say that he is at fault and needs to go home or would you say that the people who have a problem with it are the ones who should be dealt with?

That's pretty much how I feel about this issue. If anybody has a problem with someone displaying an American flag in a public institution in the United States then deal with the person who has a problem with it; not the person displaying it.

6/25/2010 4:28:03 PM

Well, that's kinda my point when I say both that administrators can and should deal with disruption, AND that I'd like to see the facts of the case articulated in court. If there was no disruption, then I agree with your point. But what I'm suggesting is that we may not have all of the available information yet.

6/25/2010 5:28:23 PM

^^ That's different and you know it.

The students were wearing "American flag" t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo to deliberately be disruptive and to make an anti-immigrant political statement.

You can't paint it any other way. That IS what they were doing.

6/25/2010 5:54:00 PM

Quote :

"to make an anti-immigrant pro-American / patriotic political statement"

fixed

and if they were deliberately trying to be disruptive, why didn't they do anything that was actually disruptive?

6/25/2010 5:57:56 PM

Ah yes, because making other people feel unwelcome simply for their ethnicity is the American way.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[Edited on June 25, 2010 at 5:59 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2010 5:59:07 PM

Quote :

"Dominic Maciel said his father is of Mexican descent. “I have no problem with them wearing their Mexican stuff, their Mexican flags,” said Maciel. “I just thought I’d show my pride. American pride.”"

but hey God, I'll certainly trust you as the definition of what shirt a Mexican American student should wear to school...after all you are also the authority on how African Americans should act, based on your recent thread with BigHitSunday

6/25/2010 6:02:17 PM

That's the equivalent of "Hey I can make watermelon jokes because I have black friends, right?"

6/25/2010 6:03:11 PM

Actually, its the equivalent of "I can make watermelon jokes because my dad is black and I'm half black"

I love your exaggeration though, it makes me lol

6/25/2010 6:03:59 PM

And even if you were, you shouldn't.

(AND FOR THAT MATTER, WHY ISN'T THERE A W.E.T.?!)

6/25/2010 6:05:04 PM

Quote :

"And even if you were, you shouldn't."

God: a white guy who happens to be the authority on what non-whites should be able to do and wear

6/25/2010 6:05:58 PM

TreeTwista10: Sticking up for the poor oppressed White Christian male since 2001.

6/25/2010 6:06:31 PM

yeah, like that Mexican American kid I'm sticking up for!

6/25/2010 6:07:13 PM

If he's Mexican then I'm George Lopez.

6/25/2010 6:08:54 PM

Its funny. The kid's dad immigrated from Mexico. Now you don't think his kid should have the freedoms of this country.

lawlz

so you're pro immigration, but you don't think children of immigrants should be able to embrace their home country

i dont understand, but ok

6/25/2010 6:09:49 PM

We've been over this.

The first amendment doesn't really apply to schools. They have plenty of rules on what is acceptable clothing and what isn't. If they think that wearing an American flag t-shirt on the one day dedicated to Mexican heritage during a time when tensions about illegal immigration are at an all-time high is behavior unbecoming of a student, then they have the right to tell the kid to change his shirt or go home.

6/25/2010 6:11:50 PM

you're completely changing the argument now that you realize you're attacking the son of an immigrant and not one of your white peers

6/25/2010 6:12:57 PM

Haha, dude...

I give up. It's like I'm talking to a sixth grader who just finished his copy of Atlas Shrugged.

I'm going to go eat some pizza. Have a great night!

6/25/2010 6:14:34 PM

hope you dont wear an american flag tshirt into a place that specializes in italian cuisine, they'd have the right to kick you out for being a douchebag

matter of fact, dont wear blue jeans either, those could be construed as patriotic and american, and after all, tension is at an all time high when it comes to illegal immigration

6/25/2010 6:16:25 PM

Wow, this got needlessly personal and childish.

6/25/2010 6:51:53 PM

is this your first time in TSB or something? did you get your memory of it erased until just recently?

i get that you're making a concerted effort to civilize things in here, which is good, but it all just seems pretty naive

politics, religion, etc are topics that can often get people worked up

6/25/2010 7:20:28 PM

Quote :

"The first amendment doesn't really apply to schools. They have plenty of rules on what is acceptable clothing and what isn't. If they think that wearing an American flag t-shirt on the one day dedicated to Mexican heritage during a time when tensions about illegal immigration are at an all-time high is behavior unbecoming of a student, then they have the right to tell the kid to change his shirt or go home."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District

Quote :

"The court's 7 to 2 decision held that the First Amendment applied to public schools, and that administrators would have to demonstrate constitutionally valid reasons for any specific regulation of speech in the classroom. Justice Abe Fortas wrote the majority opinion, holding that the speech regulation at issue in Tinker was "based upon an urgent wish to avoid the controversy which might result from the expression, even by the silent symbol of armbands, of opposition to this Nation's part in the conflagration in Vietnam." The Court held that in order for school officials to justify censoring speech, they "must be able to show that [their] action was caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint," allowing schools to forbid conduct that would "materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school."[1] "

6/25/2010 7:31:15 PM

^^ easy dude, you don't have to get aggressive at me for making an observation. I was accurate.

6/25/2010 7:37:14 PM

yes you were accurate, and you were also Captain Obvious

6/25/2010 7:38:57 PM

I am not an American, and even I support the right of the kids to wear THEIR COUNTRY'S flag, even if I was Mexican.

Quote :

"going to school in america and bitching and moaning about people wearing american flag shirts = biggest fucking douchebags imaginable i like how you guys twist things around to shit on the 1st amendment when it doesnt agree with you THESE SHIRTS ARE A DISTRACTION TO THE LEARNING PROCESS!"

Quote :

"that is the fucking point its a school in america americans go to school there they fly an american flag at the school but wearing american flag shirts pisses off some Latin AMERICANS and faggots like you defend the offended ahead of the lunacy of them being sent home even when one of the 4 kids was latin american and his dad was from mexico! HOW DARE YOU SUPPORT YOUR OWN FREE COUNTRY OVER YOUR FATHER'S NATIVE LAND"

Gold.

On the flip side, would Mexican kids be sent home by the same principal for wearing Mexican flags on the 4th of July?

Uh, [NO].

If he did, he would be looking at an avalanche of accusations of racism and hatred for the brown and oppressed man, and probably, death threats. (and of course, calls to quit)

Also gold:

Quote :

"It's all or nothing. You can't tell kids that the Mexican flag is ok any day of the year, but the American flag is only ok 364 days per year. "

6/25/2010 7:46:25 PM

haven't yall learned by now that God is trolling y'all for the most part? He even does this in Sports Talk(re: The USA Goal that was disallowed by a phantom foul against Slovenia)

6/25/2010 7:52:12 PM

Never Forget

5/5/2011 11:31:37 AM