same can be said about most religious texts. read the old testament much?

5/22/2010 5:00:03 PM

Quote :

"missing the larger point."

I am so tired of hearing people throw that phrase around like they know what the larger point is...

did you ever once for a moment stop to think that if you want the majority of muslims to be on your side of the fence that perhaps alienating them and pissing on their prophet isn't the best way to go about it. It is THEIR prophet after all, not yours. They have the right to consider their prophet sacred without input from the peanut gallery.


As someone who speaks Arabic fluently, I can say that translating from Arabic to English rarely makes any sense.

[Edited on May 22, 2010 at 5:04 PM. Reason : .]

5/22/2010 5:02:08 PM

yeah, i get that. and those who do not agree with them have the right to not hold that same prophet to such a sacred value. tolerance cuts both ways.

and just to be clear, i didn't/wouldn't participate in "pissing on someone's prophet." but i fully believe that someone who doesn't treat that prophet to a sacred value should not have to fear for his/her life.

[Edited on May 22, 2010 at 5:07 PM. Reason : ]

5/22/2010 5:04:55 PM

there's a difference between not holding something sacred and actively trying to piss off those that do.

5/22/2010 5:07:04 PM

Quote :

"yeah, i get that. and those who do not agree with them have the right to not hold that same prophet to such a sacred value. tolerance cuts both ways."

No one is asking you to hold their prophet in any regards. No one is saying adopt their beliefs. I think the disconnect here is you people lack the understanding of mutual respect.

I can drink alcohol and eat pork, I'm not going to force my Muslim friends to do the same because I think its stupid not to be allowed to drink or eat pork

At the same time, I wouldn't go to a Muslim wedding drunk or bring my own alcohol. Its not going to kill me not to drink for one night out of respect for them. Just like its not going to kill all you aspiring artists ITT to not draw a picture of one person out of the billions that have walked this earth.

5/22/2010 5:08:05 PM

^okaaay. if the argument hinges on the degree of "respect" that is shown, than it is a weak argument, as respect is relative according to ones sensibilities

5/22/2010 5:09:29 PM

Its ok, you don't get it. No one is holding that against you. Happy drawing!

5/22/2010 5:11:17 PM

convenient. look, i didn't draw the fucking prophet, because i think its stupid (the act of drawing to offend, not the prophet). purposefully going out of ones way to offend someone is stupid. but, the freedom to disagree with someone else is not stupid, and that freedom should be protected.

and banning/censuring webpages because it doesn't fall in line to any established belief system is stupid, and generally damming to the population.

[Edited on May 22, 2010 at 5:16 PM. Reason : ]

5/22/2010 5:14:56 PM

Which is exactly why I don't hold it against you. Its your right to disagree.

Quote :

"and banning/censuring webpages because it doesn't fall in line to any established belief system is stupid, and generally damming to the population."

Not every country is like the United States. Heard of China? Iran? Any number of countries that ban websites on the regular.

Quote :

"i think its stupid (the act of drawing to offend"

This is what we've been saying all along.


[Edited on May 22, 2010 at 5:18 PM. Reason : .]

5/22/2010 5:17:04 PM

^which is awesome. thanks, by the way. but the pakistani/chinese/(other dictator) government doesn't seem to share your tolerant attitude. that's kind of fucked up, don't you think?

[Edited on May 22, 2010 at 5:20 PM. Reason : ]

5/22/2010 5:19:02 PM

Quote :

"^which is awesome. thanks, by the way. but the pakistani/chinese/(other dictator) government doesn't seem to share your tolerant attitude. that's kind of fucked up, don't you think?"

Which is why I live in America. I have lived in the Middle East for half my life though and "When in Rome...." you know the rest.

5/22/2010 5:22:07 PM

A Muslim response to 'Draw Muhammad Day'

By NIHAD AWAD, NAWAD@CAIR.COM

— Nihad Awad is national executive director for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the nation’s largest Muslim civil liberties organization. He may be contacted at: nawad@cair.com

Quote :

"I will be the first to defend anyone's right to express their opinion, no matter how offensive it may be to me. Our nation has prospered because Americans value and respect diversity. But freedom of expression does not create an obligation to offend or to show disrespect to the religious beliefs or revered figures of others. In reaction to the recent controversy over a depiction of Islam's Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in an episode of Comedy Central's "South Park," a Seattle cartoonist apparently declared May 20 to be "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day." I say "apparently" because cartoonist Molly Norris — the creator of the cartoon showing many objects claiming to be a likeness of the prophet — now says she never intended to launch "Draw Muhammad Day." On her website, she has since posted a statement that reads in part: "I did not 'declare' May 20 to be 'Everybody Draw Mohammed Day.'...The cartoon-poster, with a fake 'group' behind it, went viral and was taken seriously...The vitriol this 'day' has brought out, of people who only want to draw obscene images, is offensive to the Muslims who did nothing to endanger our right to expression in the first place...I apologize to people of Muslim faith and ask that this 'day' be called off." Norris even visited a mosque at the invitation of the local Muslim community. The creator of a Facebook page dedicated to the day also repudiated the "inflammatory posts" it inspired. He said, "I am aghast that so many people are posting deeply offensive pictures of the Prophet...Y'all go ahead if that's your bag, but count me out." Despite the cartoonist's and the Facebook page creator's seemingly sincere attempts to distance themselves from the fake event, Muslim-bashers and Islamophobes made sure the call to "Draw Muhammad" went viral on the Internet. They are hoping to offend Muslims, who are generally sensitive to created images of the Prophet Muhammad or any prophet. [The majority of Muslims believe visual representations of all prophets are inappropriate in that they distract from God's message and could lead to a kind of idol worship, something forbidden in Islam.] So how should Muslims and other Americans react to this latest attempt by hate-mongers to exploit the precious right of free speech and turn May 20 into a celebration of degradation and xenophobia? Before I answer that question, it must first be made clear that American Muslims value freedom of speech and have no desire to inhibit the creative instincts of cartoonists, comedians or anyone else. The mainstream American Muslim community, including my own organization, has also strongly repudiated the few members of an extremist fringe group who appeared to threaten the creators of "South Park." That group, the origins and makeup of which has been questioned by many Muslims, has absolutely no credibility within the American Muslim community. I, like many Muslims, was astonished to see media outlets broadcasting the views of a few marginal individuals, while ignoring the hundreds of mosques and Muslim institutions that have representatives who could have offered a mainstream perspective. Next, one must examine how the Prophet Muhammad himself reacted to personal insults. Islamic traditions include a number of instances in which the Prophet had the opportunity to retaliate against those who abused him, but refrained from doing so. He said, "You do not do evil to those who do evil to you, but you deal with them with forgiveness and kindness." Even when the prophet was in a position of power, he chose the path of kindness and mercy. When he returned to Makkah after years of exile and personal attacks, he did not take revenge on the people who had reviled him and abused and tortured his followers, but instead offered a general amnesty. In the Qur’an, Islam’s revealed text, God states: "Invite (all) to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching, and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for your Lord knows best who have strayed from His Path and who receive guidance." (16:125) Another verse tells the prophet to "show forgiveness, speak for justice and avoid the ignorant." (7:199) This is the guidance Muslims should follow as they express concern about an insulting depiction of the prophet, or of any other prophet of God. Instead of reacting negatively to the bigoted call to support "Draw Muhammad Day," American Muslims — and Muslims worldwide — should use that and every other day as an opportunity to reach out to people of other faiths and beliefs to build bridges of understanding and respect. The best and most productive response to bigoted campaigns like "Draw Muhammad Day" is more communication, not less communication — including not restricting the free flow of ideas with measure like banning Facebook. Research has shown that anti-Islam prejudice goes down when people interact with ordinary Muslims and have greater knowledge of Islam. Therefore, the best reaction to those who would mock the Prophet Muhammad (or the religious symbols of any faith) might be a mosque open house for the local interfaith community, a community service activity organized by Muslims and involving people of other faiths, or a newspaper commentary describing the life, legacy and personal character of the prophet, which is the opposite of the calumny some people fabricate about him. This should be of concern to all decent and objective people. We will all benefit if each of us — whether Muslim, Jew, Christian, Buddhist, or Hindu — exhibits the common human decency required by our respective faiths."

5/25/2010 2:50:24 PM

Quote :

"reach out to people of other faiths and beliefs to build bridges of understanding and respect."

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this is the way to go about it.

5/25/2010 3:01:22 PM

Quote :

"You do not do evil to those who do evil to you, but you deal with them with forgiveness and kindness waterboard them"

.

5/25/2010 3:40:09 PM

This is so ironic:

Quote :

"Creator of Everybody Draw Muhammad Day: "I did not 'declare' May 20 to be 'Everybody Draw Mohammed Day.'...The cartoon-poster, with a fake 'group' behind it, went viral and was taken seriously...The vitriol this 'day' has brought out, of people who only want to draw obscene images, is offensive to the Muslims who did nothing to endanger our right to expression in the first place...I apologize to people of Muslim faith and ask that this 'day' be called off.""

Quote :

"Creator of the Facebook page: "I am aghast that so many people are posting deeply offensive pictures of the Prophet...Y'all go ahead if that's your bag, but count me out.""

5/25/2010 4:10:31 PM

ironic, or response to death threat? The world will never know...

5/25/2010 4:15:36 PM

Quote :

"ironic, or response to death threat? The world will never know..."

humane cartoonist or scared douche bag? The world will never know...

5/25/2010 4:18:39 PM

Golovko trolling the shit out of this thread

5/25/2010 4:42:03 PM

Quote :

"Pakistan lifted a ban on Facebook on Monday after officials from the social networking site apologized for a page deemed offensive to Muslims and removed its contents, a top information technology official said. The move came almost two weeks after Pakistan imposed the ban amid anger over a page that encouraged users to post images of Islam's Prophet Muhammad. Many Muslims regard depictions of the prophet, even favorable ones, as blasphemous. "In response to our protest, Facebook has tendered their apology and informed us that all the sacrilegious material has been removed from the URL," said Najibullah Malik, secretary of Pakistan's information technology ministry, referring to the technical term for a Web page. Facebook assured the Pakistani government that "nothing of this sort will happen in the future," Malik said."

It looks like Facebook has committed itself to censoring political speech on its network. Good luck with that. And way to set a great example by apologizing to a government that denies its people the right to speak freely.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_internet_crackdown

6/1/2010 9:44:18 AM

Wow, fuck Facebook.
I mean, if you didn't have a good enough reason to not use Facebook already....

6/1/2010 11:07:38 AM

Fuck them for caving.

6/1/2010 11:20:00 AM

Man arrested in terrorist case was 'South Park' protester

Quote :

"The Virginia man who had issued "warnings" to the creators of Comedy Central's animated series "South Park," saying they risked death if they showed the prophet Muhammad in a bear costume, has been arrested and charged with giving material support to the Somali terrorist group al-Shabab. Zachary Chesser, 20, was arrested Wednesday on charges unrelated to the online "warnings" that he posted to "South Park" creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker over the show's 200th and 201st episodes, in which viewers were led to believe Muhammad was disguised in a bear suit -- only it turned out to be Saint Nicholas in the bear costume. Comedy Central censored the episodes when they were telecast in April, clumsily wiping out the cartoon bear-suited Santa Claus from its scenes. According to records, Chesser, an Oakton High School grad, told federal agents he twice tried to travel to Somalia to join al-Shabab as a fighter."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/21/AR2010072105953.html?hpid=topnews

7/22/2010 10:08:13 AM