Of course that's true [user]treetwista[/user]...

But that's beside the point. the point is that DC's can guess the plays well, so they aren't wrong often. Besides, it's not like the defensive plays aren't flexible, they just have a strength and a weakness as far as defending goes, and they tend to be effective if you pick them right.

Which DC's can do easily because Dana is predictable as fuck.

12/3/2010 11:38:18 AM

If there's anyone else who knows nothing about football and would like to argue with me, I'll be here for a few more hours, riding high from Astralwhatever's concession.

12/3/2010 11:40:09 AM

So you conceding that draws up the middle and dives go to the same place, and if you can guess where they're going you can defend them regardless of the setup of the offense at the time?

12/3/2010 11:42:16 AM

I've got the game on right now. Kickoff coming up shortly.

12/3/2010 11:42:22 AM

I've lost significant IQ points reading astral's argument

12/3/2010 11:42:26 AM

I'd like to ask a couple questions:

If Bible is predictable as fuck, they why did we lead the ACC in scoring offense? Are the other defensive coordinators dumber that you are? Maybe you should get your resume out there for DC.

12/3/2010 11:42:56 AM

Quote :

"So you conceding that draws up the middle and dives go to the same place, and if you can guess where they're going you can defend them regardless of the setup of the offense at the time? "

No, that is dumbest shit I've read in sports talk in a long, long time.

12/3/2010 11:44:08 AM

Lucky pass plays. Good red zone offense (mostly). RW scrambles for 30 yards to keep drives alive... I would never say because of better than average play calling.


Ernie... You're retarded if you don't think a DC can destroy a play he knows is coming.

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:44 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:44:14 AM

Quote :

"So you conceding that draws up the middle and dives go to the same place, and if you can guess where they're going you can defend them regardless of the setup of the offense at the time?"

ANSWER THE MAN ERNIE

also, you're conceding that every play is meant to gain yardage so if you have a defense on the field trying to stop the offense you have a chance to defend any play regardless of the play?

12/3/2010 11:44:16 AM

I'd love to play AstralEngine in Madden

12/3/2010 11:45:08 AM

I don't know that I could predict your plays the way I can Dana Bible, not having seen you run an offense for several years.


But I'm pretty fuckin good at Madden.

12/3/2010 11:45:57 AM

Quote :

"Ernie... You're retarded if you don't think a DC can destroy a play he knows is coming. "

Wait, are we talking about knowing the play that's coming or a dive and a draw being the exact same and defended the exact same

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:46 AM. Reason : Whatever you do, don't score on tree in the 4th]

12/3/2010 11:45:58 AM

no, talking about mechanical super batters that bat .1000 because they know where the pitch is coming regardless of speed or line

why would you put in 2 offensive plays that go to the same place and are defended the same way and are so damn predictable?

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:53 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:48:46 AM

And I still want you to give us some examples of us running sweeps and draws from the shotgun "a lot"

12/3/2010 11:50:10 AM

Oh, you're listening now? Ok, I'll be civil while I explain my position once more.

1. I don't think in any way that dives and draws (up the middle) are identical.

2. I know the defense needs to line up and prepare differently for each

3. I think if the DC knows the play is going to be a dive or draw (up the middle), he can demolish it

4. I think Dana Bible is pretty predictable about his play calling, and therefore a DC can know that a run play is coming and destroy it

5. I can call that Dana Bible is going to run up the middle, be it a draw (up the middle) or a dive, with some significant degree of accuracy.

6. Therefore: DC's have no problem defending against our run offense (as evidenced by our less than stellar run offense)

7. Therefore: Dana Bible needs to be fired, because predictability is one of his big weaknesses.


Edit: If you're refering to the first post I made quoting that other guy, I was being funny. I have no evidence we run sweeps out of the shotgun a lot. But we run sweeps a lot more than we should (I'd say seven or 8 a game) with absolutely no success in situations where we really need it.

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:52 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:50:16 AM

I can agree with a lot of that

But that's not what you were trying to argue earlier

If it was, you did a shit job of it

12/3/2010 11:52:15 AM

^It's the point I was trying to make, but it keeps getting derailed so often by nit picky arguments that I had a hard time trying to keep the focus on it. It's TWW, making rational arguments in the long term over posts becomes difficult.

12/3/2010 11:53:17 AM

A sweep is not the same as off-tackle run, you know

We rarely run off-tackle and we pretty much never run sweeps from any formation

As you may have seen, I went over the UNC game pretty thoroughly, and there was nary a sweep to be found

So what about shotgun draws that we run all the time? Any examples of those?

12/3/2010 11:56:38 AM

I was just fucking with that guys quote with a ftfy I don't even think it makes sense to run draws out of shotgun,because that ruins the play action effect later when you want to pass...

I'm really not a dumbass, there just has been a sincere breakdown in communication

and right, a sweep is around the edge, with some pulled blockers for leverage. I do know these plays

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 11:59 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 11:59:13 AM

Quote :

"Good red zone offense (mostly)"

Wouldn't exactly say that

RED ZONE OFFENSE G Scores-Chances Pct. TDs Rush-Pass Made-Att Fumb Int. Downs Other
1. Virginia Tech 12 51-57 89.5 36 24-12 15-16 2 1 1 1
2. North Carolina 12 40-45 88.9 26 14-12 14-16 2 0 0 1
3. Duke 12 38-43 88.4 22 15-7 16-17 1 2 1 0
4. Florida State 12 47-54 87.0 33 17-16 14-18 2 1 0 0
5. Maryland 12 37-43 86.0 27 12-15 10-12 1 3 0 0
6. Wake Forest 12 26-31 83.9 18 14-4 8-8 1 1 2 1
7. Virginia 12 39-49 79.6 30 15-15 9-11 0 5 3 0
8. Boston College 12 31-39 79.5 13 8-5 18-19 2 2 1 2
9. NC State 12 50-64 78.1 35 16-19 15-20 2 4 2 1
10. Georgia Tech 12 40-52 76.9 30 26-4 10-10 5 3 2 2
11. Miami 12 38-50 76.0 28 17-11 10-11 4 4 2 1
12. Clemson 12 30-42 71.4 22 12-10 8-14 0 3 1 2

Quote :

"DC's have no problem defending against our run offense"

Think this has has more to do with the fact that we have a young offensive line and are forced to run shotgun with RW in the backfield. If we could put RW under center, I think our running game would be a lot more effective. We're kinda forced to run draw plays as it is now

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 12:10 PM. Reason : ]

12/3/2010 12:08:03 PM

Quote :

"I'll keep a running tally of Russell's reads Here's the first 56:15 on the video timeline Perfect read by Wilson Right end crashes, pursues Greene and Wilson keeps, the end is left pursuing from behind and Wilson gets a great gain"

Still watching for this. I'm at the 7:17 mark of the 1st qtr.

12/3/2010 12:09:01 PM

good redzone offense (mostly) lucky 30+ yard passes into coverage that people take off with into the endzone

12/3/2010 12:13:34 PM

this has heated up quite a bit since the last time i checked it.

12/3/2010 12:16:31 PM

It's calming back down now, you missed it.

12/3/2010 12:18:58 PM

I think Dana can be a good coordinator, but as good as RW is, he kind of limits playcalling in the sense that he can only run in the shotgun formation. He's a great QB, but the fact that he can't see the field well under center means that our running plays and formations are limited. It also tremendously hurts playaction becuase 1) Hard to run play action from the shotgun 2) our running game sucks.

I think that alone makes us somewhat predictable.

Be interesting to see how our playcalling and formations changes with an NFL style QB under center. I expect it to change a lot

12/3/2010 12:22:37 PM

^ Does that mean we know RW isn't coming back?

12/3/2010 12:35:45 PM

I don't know anything for sure, but I think it's safe to say odds are Glennon will be our starter next season.

12/3/2010 12:38:47 PM

Quote :

"Lucky pass plays. Good red zone offense (mostly). RW scrambles for 30 yards to keep drives alive... I would never say because of better than average play calling."

Um no, and our redzone offense is not good. Our play calling has put us in a position to win every game. What hasn't has been execution. When your receivers drop wide open passes---guess why they were wide open? GOOD PLAY CALLING.

I'm not saying it's perfect and couldn't be improved, but it hasn't cost us any games. Every game we've lost we've been in a position to win but the players simply didn't perform. I would definitely like to see some changes made as I do feel the offense was a major weak link this year to the overall performance of the team, but it was not simply the play calling that was the issue. The O-Line still needs development, we don't have a bruising running back (I expect Greene to fill this hole, he just needs to grow physically and develop), and apparently don't have receivers that can catch.

It will be interesting to see what he does with Glennon, whom I think will be our QB next year.

12/3/2010 1:03:20 PM

our redzone offense is anemic.

Quote :

"I'd love to play AstralEngine in Madden "

no you wouldn't. I guarantee you he's the type of player that throws hail marys for 4 downs and completes on 3rd or 4th down everytime, because Madden doesn't think the deep ball is defendable.

12/3/2010 1:17:31 PM

Everyone, don't take eleusis's gaurantees ever.


He has just proven that his word means nothing.

12/3/2010 1:45:06 PM

We beat 1 good team this year, and it was by complete luck (FSU).

WCU, UCF, Cinn, GT, BC, WF, and UNC were all bad teams
ECU, Clemson, and MD are bad losses
VT is a good loss.

We benefited from a very easy schedule this year, and we still came up short.

12/4/2010 12:53:28 PM

UCF won 9 games and is playing the CUSA championship game
GT, BC and UNC are all going to bowls
MD and ECU are average teams

And I guess you're calling Ponder's fumble lucky? Like that was the only play of the game?

Even with our "easy" schedule, we were supposed to finish at the bottom of the conference

12/4/2010 1:07:43 PM

Quote :

"We benefited from a very easy schedule this year, and we still came up short."

Troll? We didn't play Miami, Duke, and Virginia. One so-so team and arguably the two bottom teams. Maryland/FSU didn't have to play Virginia Tech.

12/4/2010 1:52:27 PM

^ ba da boom

12/4/2010 1:54:47 PM

Rofl, an easy schedule? Dumbest thing I've seen posted in this thread.

12/4/2010 2:00:17 PM

we didn't play an easy schedule, but it was a shit year for the ACC in general.

anyone that writes off the FSU win as just one botched play must not have watched the rest of the game. We put ourselves in a position to win that game.

12/4/2010 2:29:34 PM

we played 4 of the best 5 teams in the league. I doubt many other teams can say that

12/4/2010 2:42:48 PM

"best" here IS a relative term

12/4/2010 5:26:02 PM

^yes, which is why he said "in the league".....

12/4/2010 5:30:25 PM

Jesse Palmer just explained the zone read on ESPN, eleusis, you ignorant son of a bitch

1/6/2011 12:39:30 AM

Can someone lock this ignorant ass thread up.

9

And

4

1/6/2011 6:00:29 PM