50 BMG


Also, shoulder holsters are horrible, horrible ideas. They rate only slightly above ankle holsters and only slightly below small of the back for stupid carry ideas.

6/3/2009 1:19:16 PM

Shoulder hosters are great if practiced with, and for specific purposes. Just like ankle and SOB carry.

I have holsters for almost every location on my body, and they have all been used at one time or another for a reason.

6/3/2009 10:26:35 PM

Here is an experiment: Have your buddy approach you like a thug and get to bad breath distance. This is where almost all assaults occur, guy's aren't going to threaten you from across the street. Next you draw when you feel threatened by his actions. Let me know how that goes for you, especially if he decides to go for your gun, which is facing him, while you try to remove it cross body.

There is a reason that nobody who trains force on force uses shoulder holsters. Actually run the same drill with ankle and SOB. You will get the shit stabbed out of you if you have an ankle holster, and when you wind up on your back, your SOB holster will be worthless.

I've you've got enough covering garments to carry a shoulder holster you've got enough to at least wear strong-side.

Just m2c. If you really like shoulder holster, roll with it.

6/4/2009 6:57:39 AM

^I agree and disagree. I carry a knife, a flashlight and a firearm, most of the time. I don't care where my firearm is holstered, however I do prefer it on my backside or side. I also like it near me if I am home, within reach. However there are occassions where I have to use a shoulder rig or fanny pack. For example wearing a suit at a wedding or running in my sweats.

I think worrying about drawing when the dude is in my face is already a bad situation. What happened to my awareness of my surroundings? Why is this dude already in my face? I agree most situations happen in a confrontational matter, but it escalted to that point and he didn't just suddenly appeared out of thin air.

This is where I believe additional training is needed. My draw is okay but that is not my professional by any means...so I don't rely on that. I rely more on being aware on my surroundings, confront a confrontation ahead of time (ie, don't be the idiot who gets suckered punch by not noticing who is around me and who's a possible threat.), and if the person finally gets in my comfort zone, arms reach, I use combatives first and then draw a weapon when applicable. That's why I train and keep fit, and recommend taking classes like Krav Maga or Martial Blade Concepts. It's in my area so it's convenient for me but I am not sure if there is schooling in NC.

Sorry just my 2 cents. Read Lt Dave Grossman's Books - such as this excerpt http://www.pgpft.com/On_Sheep_Wolves_and_Sheepdogs-Grossman.htm.

Also look for youtube video or books by Kelley McCann aka Jim Grover, Michael Janich, Gavin DeBecker, SouthNarc or others who believe a weapon is your last resort, using other things like being aware of your surroundings, de-escaltate a situation, verbal judo, etc, and if all else fails, draw and shoot or draw and stab.

Sorry started babbling and probably didn't stay on topic of what i was saying...

6/4/2009 2:23:14 PM

This is why I like appendix carry more than any other. It's fast because I don't have to reach around myself and it's secure because the gun's right in front of me.

Quote :

"There is a reason that nobody who trains force on force uses shoulder holsters."

I think the bigger reason no one teaches with shoulder holsters isn't the speed issue. I think it's because of safety. Ranges and competitive shooting sports don't allow sweeping behind you with a gun, which happens with cross draw and shoulder harnesses. If they don't allow it, then people usually don't consider it a viable option.

I'm not saying it's good or bad; that really depends on the person. I don't carry that way though.

Quote :

"However there are occassions where I have to use a shoulder rig or fanny pack. For example wearing a suit at a wedding or running in my sweats."

Try a tuckable holster if your gun is thin enough. I don't have a solution for sweats though...unless you get a really light weight gun and IWB holster, belly band, thunderwear, etc.

6/4/2009 3:32:32 PM

Quote :

"weapon is your last resort"

What about when your weapon is your first resort?

6/4/2009 5:56:55 PM

Quote :

"I don't care where my firearm is holstered"

I think one of the most important lessons from the shooting in San Francisco where a BART Officer shot a detained suspect in the back is that weapons placement counts. It was completely natural for him to reach where his taser always is, point, and squeeze the trigger without a second thought. His life wasn't even in danger. Drawing on a square range when you know where your weapon is against a non-reacting target is one thing. Where your hand goes when you're in an adrenal state is another. This is why I disagree with people who carry in different places on a regular basis.

Quote :

"I think worrying about drawing when the dude is in my face is already a bad situation. What happened to my awareness of my surroundings? Why is this dude already in my face?"

Because shit happens. No-one, and I mean, no-one is alert 24-7.

Quote :

"That's why I train and keep fit, and recommend taking classes like Krav Maga or Martial Blade Concepts."

I agree 100%. "Gun people" tend to make the gun the first solution to every problem. Even when deadly force is justified, you may not be able to access your gun right away.


As far as videos, take a look at "Die Less Often" by Gabe Suarez and Mark "Crafty Dog" Denny. In all honesty, if the people don't regularly do force on force and don't have prior real world experience, they're usually just playing gun games.

Quote :

"I don't have a solution for sweats though...unless you get a really light weight gun and IWB holster, belly band, thunderwear, etc."

Sometimes, you just can't conceal a gun. If you go to the beach and want to get in the water, you've got to separate from your weapon. Same thing goes if you carry a steel framed 1911 and go for a run. There is a fine line between preparedness and paranoia.

6/4/2009 6:14:46 PM

Thanks, I like the videos. I am sending them to a few people for critiquing and comments. Without actually watching all the actual footage I was impressed by some of the techniques however I do not like going to the ground at all if possible. There were some arm bars in the video "Die Less" that went to the ground and they are on a padded gym and if you slam a guy on concrete yeah it will hurt the dude but watch your knees. I seen guys blow their knees or shoulder out going to the ground like that.

Not that it's wrong, just be careful, and also I prefer not to grapple since I am not that good at it. I think more guys are better wrestlers and even practicing BJJ because of the popularity of MMA now. So I am a disadvantage. I would prefer throw a guy to the ground with an arm bar, sure but then not go to the ground, step back draw my secondary weapon like a knife or gun. Other than that the video looked goo except I couldn't see the censored techniques.

I agree, a knife is much scarier than a gun. It's always active and can sometimes do much mroe damage than a firearm. If you ever get a chance I recommend training with Michael Janich from the Best Defense show on the outdoor channel. His knife system is very sound and I know a lot of cops that love it because it is very effective.

Thanks for your input and sorry for my ramble earlier... I just finished discussing CCW class with someone who said they wouldn't carry except for occasions when they "thought they needed it". My argument is you can never predict it, and so you would ever carry or never carry, there is no in between. My comparison was Grossman's - Sheep, Sheepdogs and wolves story. You are either a sheep or a sheepdog. Can't be both.

6/5/2009 9:54:15 PM

Tennessee allows carry in restaurants that serve alcohol!

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=4949

6/6/2009 9:19:54 AM

DAMMIT NC SON! WHY CAN'T YOU BE LIKE TN SON?!


I don't drink alcohol, so I don't understand why I can't be armed in a place that serves alcohol when I'm otherwise perfectly qualified to do so and I'm not drinking. I guess they figure people can't control themselves and will drink and carry at the bar and then get into a bar-type brawl and shoot somebody. The problem is, the kind of person that would do that probably wont be stopped by the law anyway and since the rest of us law abiders couldn't be armed due to the law that only prevents good people from carrying, nobody would be able to stop the idiot.

6/6/2009 9:23:12 AM

if some lunatic with a gun walks into PBs and just starts offing people left and right, I don't want any law abiding citizen to be able to stop them.

6/6/2009 2:37:14 PM

well that's just lovely.

and isn't PB's a bar? this type of law doesn't cover bars.

6/6/2009 4:31:12 PM

right. it covers places like second empire

6/6/2009 7:18:51 PM

NC is in the process of trying to pass a law allowing us to carry in places that serve alcohol (you yourself still can't have any booze)


i saw a video recently where a dude tries to rob a restaurant with a knife, and a patron stopped it and potentially saved the hostess's life because he was carrying- I never carry in a place that serves alcohol, but I think it's retarded that I can't bring it with me into Moe's when I am getting a burrito

6/8/2009 9:03:26 PM

let's hope it passes.

and someone trashes this AWB. PLEASE.


OC DINNER INFORMATION:
The OC Dinner, this Saturday, June 13, will be a Crazy Fire in Cary, at 7:30. Let me know if you have any questions.




[Edited on June 8, 2009 at 9:45 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2009 9:38:41 PM

The only place I don't carry in on the National Seashore (the boat ramp area) etc. I don't want to run into some Jack-Booted CG thug with a hard on and have to deal with it.

6/8/2009 10:47:18 PM

I need to start writing Congressmen and try to get it OK'd to CC on a military installation. not worth getting my CCP, otherwise.

6/8/2009 11:14:42 PM

SB 928 (Castle Doctrine) is being held up! Contact your representatives ASAP!

From the NRA:

Quote :

"Unfortunately, Senate Bill 928, the Castle Doctrine Bill, appears to be bogged down. This bill was referred to three separate committees, the first being the House Judiciary I Committee. That committee is Chaired by anti-gun State Representative Deborah Ross (D-38), and she appears to be unwilling to set a date for a hearing. Please contact Representative Ross and urge her to allow this critical legislation—which received overwhelming, bi-partisan support in the Senate—to be heard. Please call Representative Ross at 919-733-5773 or e-mail her at Deborah.Ross@ncleg.net. Also, please call or email your State Representative and ask them to urge House leadership to bring SB 928 up for consideration. You can call your Representative at 919-733-7928."

SB928: http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2009/Bills/Senate/PDF/S928v0.pdf

6/9/2009 8:42:31 PM

The GRNC just issued an alert on this. The info they issued is as follows:

Quote :

"Grass Roots North Carolina, P.O. Box 10684, Raleigh, NC 27605 919-664-8565, http://www.grnc.org, GRNC Alert Hotline: (919) 562-4137 GRNC Alert 05-30-09: Castle Doctrine Stonewalling in Committee House Judiciary I Chair waiting for "direction from her leadership" before proceeding SB 928, "The Castle Doctrine," is now languishing in the House Judiciary I Committee. Committee chair, Rep. Deborah K. Ross (GRNC 0 Star, Wake) indicated to GRNC legislative representatives that she considers your input "of little value," and was waiting for direction from "her leadership" before scheduling. So to borrow a line out of a classic sci-fi movie, "take me to your leader." Actually we should thank Rep. Ross for letting us know to whom she wishes to pass the buck. It is time to let Speaker Joe Hackney know that he needs to direct Ross to schedule SB 928 for ahearing; since she doesn't seem to know if she should without his"leadership." Act now. We can see the goal line, time to push this one on in for a touchdown. *IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED * Contact Speaker of the NC House, Joe Hackney. 919-733-3451, Joe.Hackney@ncleg.net Dear Speaker Hackney: Rep. Deborah Ross, chair of the House Judiciary I Committee, is waiting to hear from leadership before deciding on scheduling SB 928,"The Castle Doctrine" for a committee hearing. I urge you to direct her to do so and to give it a fair and honest hearing. It is too important that this worthy bill that will protect our citizens from dangerous criminals and abuses of the legal system after a case of self defense be passed into law. The Castle Doctrine is an important concept that has proven effective in the protection of citizens in the number of states that have already implemented it. It is vital that you throw your influence behind the interests of the honest citizens of this state and allow them to protect themselves from criminals. I trust that you wish to protect the lives and interests of the law abiding voters of North Carolina rather than enable the criminal element. Provide leadership in supporting SB 928. I will be following your actions on this bill through Grass Roots North Carolina. Sincerely, A Concerned North Carolina Voter You may find your NC representative by going here. You may write your federal congressman by going here. Please consider joining GRNC! "

Contact Hackney AND Ross about this. This bill passed two votes short of UNANIMOUSLY in the NC Senate, and now this hack in the House is sitting on it because she thinks guns are icky.

Let them know who they work for and what we want done.

[Edited on June 10, 2009 at 7:45 AM. Reason : quote tag]

6/10/2009 7:44:26 AM

this bill sounds exactly like what I learned in my CC class (these are all the situations we covered in the lecture and in the videos)... what's different b/w the current law and what is being presented here?

6/10/2009 10:46:54 AM

Quote :

"Also, shoulder holsters are horrible, horrible ideas. They rate only slightly above ankle holsters and only slightly below small of the back for stupid carry ideas."

They are a comfortable way to carry large, heavy handguns. If I'm carrying one of these things I'm not really worried about whipping it out in a timed drawstroke.

6/10/2009 12:40:33 PM

I have found that you can easily carry a full size handgun in shorts in a t-shirt with the right IWB holster, belt and shorts.

In other news, I got my G27.

6/10/2009 1:25:13 PM

does anyone know anything about saiga rifles? I know several people who have the saiga 12's, but i was looking around and unbeknownst to me, they may rifles as well (in 7.63x39, 223, and 308), and they are very reasonably priced (300-400 bucks new...)

also, I have seen alot of places online that sell the hicap mags for 30-40 bucks and they are all in stock




just wondering because I would like to have a semi auto rifle, and this would get me one faster rather than piecing together the AR I want to build (which I would still do- just take my time- and probably don in a caliber other than whatever I choose for the saiga if i do in fact get one)

6/10/2009 4:05:08 PM

too late to edit-

I just found out that their 7.62 was used as the AK for the russian army during the cold war, and it is solid

I'd like to look into this, and I've seen some pretty cool modifications that can be done for cheap (ie: an adjustable stock and pistol grip for 52 bucks from cheaperthandirt as well as heat guards that look pretty cool)

I just want to hear about the reliability and specific models people have seen/dealt with- I think I would lean towards the 16" barrel, and definately go all synthetic (I'm not too big a fan of wood). Also, what is accuracy like with these (i've never shot one...)- could I get it to be any where near to what i could with an AR? or is it more of a lead spreader?

6/10/2009 5:02:54 PM

I've contacted the NC & US congressmen & women, as well as Rep. Ross.

LET'S DEFEAT THE CRAP AND PASS THE SENSIBLE LEGISLATION!

6/10/2009 8:24:09 PM

Quote :

"this bill sounds exactly like what I learned in my CC class (these are all the situations we covered in the lecture and in the videos)... what's different b/w the current law and what is being presented here?"

Gonna summarize this as best I can:
You should have learned you have 2 (in some cases 1) requirements be in place before legal use of deadly force can occur. You must have an imminent threat of serious bodily harm/death to you or an innocent bystander. You also are required and must have a duty to retreat if not in your own property or business. I was advised by both my CC instructor and a friend who is now a cop that it is in your best interest to retreat if at all possible even in your own home/business as it proves to the cops (or jury should it get that far) that you had absolutely no options left but to use deadly force.

As it is now, using justified deadly force is not a right. Even if you know you were in the clear and truly justified, it's what you can prove to the cops/judge/jury that determines your fate. Not to mention now that when Mr John Doe was paralyzed when you shot him during the robbery and assault on you in your own home, you are now getting sued for $texas to pay his medical bills and for "pain and suffering incurred." It personally disgusts me when I see a jury pull this shit. The intruder/rapist/robber knows the consequences involved in breaking the law, especially on someone else's turf. I don't need them sucking the financial life out of me based on subjective laws.

Castle Doctrine essentially changes things so that:
You are not required to have a duty to retreat from a place you're legally able to be in. This will probably be mainly for a person's own home or business but could potentially be other places. Also, it removes the ability for the State to charge you with piddly shit because a DA felt that you shouldn't have the right to choose to shoot a home invader, or that you shot someone more times than necessary (even though you may have seconds to decide, they have years to debate). Lastly- and this is a biggie to me - the victims' families can no longer sue you legally defending yourself or you family. IMHO this is long overdue.

6/10/2009 10:03:53 PM

Quote :

"Also, shoulder holsters are horrible, horrible ideas. They rate only slightly above ankle holsters"

um, i've WITNESSED two robberies stopped with the help of ankle holsters. take about ten minutes practice with good placement in mind and they can be amazingly effective

Quote :

"I need to start writing Congressmen and try to get it OK'd to CC on a military installation."

holy shit?? Not letting officers not carry weapons on base ..... thats the most amazingly homosexual thing i've ever heard. ever. And I've been to lilith fair

[Edited on June 10, 2009 at 10:45 PM. Reason : d]

[Edited on June 10, 2009 at 10:48 PM. Reason : d]

6/10/2009 10:43:40 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to look into this, and I've seen some pretty cool modifications that can be done for cheap (ie: an adjustable stock and pistol grip for 52 bucks from cheaperthandirt as well as heat guards that look pretty cool) I just want to hear about the reliability and specific models people have seen/dealt with- I think I would lean towards the 16" barrel, and definately go all synthetic (I'm not too big a fan of wood). Also, what is accuracy like with these (i've never shot one...)- could I get it to be any where near to what i could with an AR? or is it more of a lead spreader?"

I have a 7.62 Saiga (converted), and you're welcome to check it out if you'd like. It's actually just a high-quality, neutered AK. They take a standard AK-type rifle and do the following -

Omit the muzzle threads
Use a different handguard that does not use a retainer plate
Remove the bullet guide and use a slightly modified magazine
change the fire control group and add a couple parts so that the fcg is moved back about 1.5 inches and PG is removed
put a monte-carlo style stock on the back

That's it. And when I mentioned "converted", that means undoing all the Klinton-ban neutering mentioned above. The de-neutering can be done for about $200 worth of parts and a dremel in your garage, and makes it back into a real AK with all its "evil" features. Once converted, they use regular cheap AK mags (this mod for this costs about $25 and pays for itself in one mag), AK furniture, AK muzzle devices...everything.

You end up with a very good quality AK for the same or less than shitty Romy builds are going for.

It only comes in synthetic furniture over here, which most folks replace post-haste anyway. It's not as accurate as an AR, but it does well for an AK. 1-1.5 MOA on an average day. It's a good quality gun if you want an AK-style rifle, but it's not an AR replacement.

The Saiga-12 forums are actually for Saiga's in general, and there's a boatload of info on them all over there.
http://forum.saiga-12.com

Starts like:


Ends up like:


[Edited on June 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM. Reason : photos]

6/11/2009 9:08:47 AM

where do you go fire around here? I wouldn't mind picking your brain about it, cause it looks like you have done exactly what I want to do if I would get one


what all do you have to do to make it compliant? I hear because of some sort of law, if you make any modifications (ie the one to make it receive standard AK mags) you have to have a certain number of American made parts

6/11/2009 3:24:27 PM

Quote :

"um, i've WITNESSED two robberies stopped with the help of ankle holsters. take about ten minutes practice with good placement in mind and they can be amazingly effective"

No-one is saying that ankle holsters are completely worthless, they're capable of carrying a gun and under the right circumstances, one that could be retrieved.

Anecdotal evidence aside, that doesn't change the fact that, in a close fight, retrieving the ankle holster places you in an extremely awkward position, one which places you at a great disadvantage.

Again, try a force on force drill. Your buddy has a knife and is 21 feet away. When he starts running towards you, you drop and draw, or run it with him in your face where most confrontations occur. He doesn't get a gun, just a knife. Let me know how that goes for you.

6/11/2009 4:48:47 PM

Quote :

"where do you go fire around here? I wouldn't mind picking your brain about it, cause it looks like you have done exactly what I want to do if I would get one what all do you have to do to make it compliant? I hear because of some sort of law, if you make any modifications (ie the one to make it receive standard AK mags) you have to have a certain number of American made parts"

I don't shoot it around here anymore - I used to go to SSI out in Louisburg, but it's been some time. I usually do rifles anymore only when I go to see my family, which is out in the sticks.

The one in the photo is not mine so I can't take credit for it, but mine is identical except for the muzzle device.

The law you refer to is Federal code 922(r). 922 in general deals with firearms stuff, and section (r) is about importation of "non-sporting" weapons. Basically if a weapon is considered non-sporting by having evil features like pistol grips, threaded muzzles, or >10 cap magazines, it is subject to 922(r), and must not have a foreign part count greater than 10. There is an entire discussion forum on 922(r) at the Saiga forum that lists the countable parts, among other things.

http://tinyurl.com/llxc48 <- 922(r) discussion

I can tell you right off that most folks get compliant by converting to a PG config - replacing the FCG (3 parts) and using a US-made stock and PG to get down to 10 parts in the process. You can also replace any one part and use US hi-cap mags (counts as three parts) in the original config, but that's generally avoided. 922(r) is a damn mess, but I can help with that if you decide to go that route.

The simplest thing is really to do the PG conversion right out of the box because it's an instant improvement over the rube-goldberg trigger mechanism, and using US-made furniture with it gets you your compliance parts so you can use normal-capacity magazines. The basic PG conversion can be done in an evening with around $100 worth of parts and Dremel or drill press to remove the old rivets. There's no legal way to just pop a 30-rounder in it and be compliant, you have to swap at least one part out, even with US mags.

With all that said, 922(r) is one of those essentially un-enforced laws, so plenty of folks don't even bother counting. Doing a full conversion with Tapco and K-Var parts gets you there though by virtue of what needs to be replaced to de-neuter it, so it's a moot point for most folks.

Guess that helps make 922(r) about as clear as mud.

[Edited on June 11, 2009 at 6:34 PM. Reason : .]

6/11/2009 6:33:38 PM

9x17 is the same brass as 380auto, isn't it?

9x17 = 380
9x18 = short 9mm
9x19 = 9 mm

6/11/2009 6:40:36 PM

^^when I do actually save up to get it (extra money to be used on my firearms is at a low right now) I will probably contact you via PM to ask more questions- I've been reading up on that saiga-12 forum and I've learned alot so far

6/11/2009 6:49:46 PM

^^
9x17 = 9mm Kurtz = .380 ACP
9x18 = 9mm Makarov
9x19 = 9mm Luger

So yes, that is correct.

6/11/2009 9:21:14 PM

sweet. I have about 50 9x17 pieces of brass that I was going to throw in with my 380 brass for reloading.

6/11/2009 10:38:15 PM

Quote :

"Anecdotal evidence aside"

no, fuck you and your bossy whore mom. She knows she's killing you but she doesn't care, see? When she gets her dick in the mail she is going to fuck your peehole, you get me? You are a faggot

I pray for the day that we can dismiss all ACTUAL PROOF as "anecdotal evidence" just so when I shit your teeth out my asshole i'll have at least one rep from SF on my side

6/11/2009 11:23:58 PM

wut?

6/12/2009 8:32:11 AM

Finally took pics of my homemade kydex holster.
The holster is IWB and tuckable and designed for appendix carry. It works fine for strong side IWB carry. I sold one just like this but left handed to a friend who carries his strong side and he likes it.
The gun is a S&W J frame (model 637).
I couldn't stand the thought of paying $60-70 for $4 worth of plastic and screws, so I spent $60 on the raw materials. That $60 worth of materials gave me three holsters like this plus I gave enough material to a friend for him to make 2 more holsters (he went to Iraq where holsters are hard to find).

Making the first one was quite a learning process. I realized that if you're running a business in making holsters then $60 would be about enough to pay for overhead costs, materials, and pay someone a little over minimum wage.

I'm glad I made my own. This one is exactly what I wanted. Other holsters on the market put the clip right over the cylinder, which makes the gun even wider. Others have two clips when only one is needed (at least for the airweights). Putting the clip over the trigger guard also helps pull the butt of the grip inward.






If the hammer looks a little odd it's because I bobbed it.
It dug into my gut sometimes, so I cut 1/3 of it off and rounded the edges.

I'm gearing up for producing batches of these holsters.
I've built a kydex press and will hopefully get a table sander soon.
The models I'll be able to make holsters for will be limited...because I only own a few guns. I'll be doing the J frame (not scandium J frames though), Taurus model 85, and probably the Sig 228.
I'll make holster for the Ruger LCP when I finally get one.
I wish I hadn't sold my Bersa. Those would sell like hot cakes too.

Cost will probably be $45

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 1:53 AM. Reason : Damn spelling]

6/15/2009 1:33:10 AM

Quote :

"and probably the Sig 228."

ding! sign me up.

thinking about getting a revolver or an lcp. i wonder which one would work better.

hmmmmm

6/15/2009 9:05:56 AM

I'll definately post some holsters for sale on tww when I make them.
I haven't done one for my 228 yet, so I'm not sure what the design will look like.

As far as revolver vs LCP...
I chose a revolver for concealed carry because of the reliability and the fact that 38 Spl can handle heavier bullets better than similar autos.
Autos can be reliable, but maybe not if you consider where the gun will be stored. It'll be carried in a pocket with tons of lint and dirt every single day. An auto could attract that stuff easier because you keep the rails lightly oiled. If enough crap gets in then it could slow the slide enough to cause a jam. I've detailed stripped a couple carry guns and you'd be amazed how much crap can get into a revolver and it'll still run.

IMO revolvers also don't print as bad as autos when pocketed and a revolver is easier to draw from a smaller pocket opening because of the gun's shape.

That all is comparing a j frame to something like a baby Glock or Kahr PM9.
You can't really compare a revolver to an LCP in concealment. The LCP is soooo much smaller, flatter, and lighter than any revolver. That's why I'm getting one.

If carrying a revolver will be a hassle, then get the LCP. If carrying is a hassle then you'll probably end up not carrying.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 10:03 AM. Reason : ]

6/15/2009 10:02:20 AM

i don't want to own 12 different guns, so i have to force myself to pick one.

an LCP would work for a majority of situations. a revolver would work for slightly less.

hmmmmmm. it's a hard choice. i'd have to sell something to make room.

6/15/2009 10:19:29 AM

If you want only one carry gun then get the LCP. I carry the J frame almost every second I've got clothes on and I'm used to it, but the LCP would be a little less cumbersome and would work with all clothing except if you're swimming.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 10:24 AM. Reason : Getting a pocket holster that covers the ejection port would almost eliminate the lint issue]

6/15/2009 10:24:01 AM

Quote :

"I chose a revolver for concealed carry because of the reliability and the fact that 38 Spl can handle heavier bullets better than similar autos."

Kind of a silly side note, but I've actually had more major functioning problems with revolvers than any other type of gun. My experience may not be typical, but semi-auto's can honestly be more reliable than revolvers (And I'm not talking about complete trash Rossi and the like revolvers either, I'm talking S&W and shyte). I trust my Glocks and Mossberg FAR more than I trust my S&W Model 642 (Or my Taurus .44 Magnum to be honest). I just got the 642 back from the factory too, so I guess we'll see if it works now.

6/15/2009 10:38:00 AM

Yeah, revolvers aren't bullet proof. The reliability comment is towards feeding. Revolvers can jam, usually due to brass sticking to the breech face.

Also, people think they're more durable than autos. They're not. If you drop a revolver the wrong way or turn the cylinder hard enough you'll break or bend the hand or bolt. You can slam almost any auto onto the ground and it'll still work.

As always, shoot your carry gun a lot to test its function.

What problems did you have with your revolvers?

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 10:45 AM. Reason : ]

6/15/2009 10:43:09 AM

Well, the biggest thing was the S&W Model 642 would only fire 2 out of 5 rounds. It would just fire two rounds out of the cylinder full (Occasionally 3 if you were lucky). It did this brand new, right out of the box with all types of ammo I tried (Some primer strikes were extremely light and others were just strong enough to fire the round). I sent it back and they said they repaired the yoke and replaced the firing pin and sear. Haven't tested it again, but I'm going to be quite skeptical until I see the fucker working flawlessly for quite some time.

My Taurus just acted kind of funny at first and it probably just needed to be broken in, but I'm still not to where I fully trust it yet. Basically the cylinder locked up on me a couple of times for some reason (You couldn't pull the trigger or the hammer), but when I opened it and closed it back up, generally that fixed the problem and I could continue firing. It does always fire each round and the cylinder hasn't locked up or anything since though.

Anyway, my 9mm Glocks (A 26 and 17) have never once had any kind of failure or malfunction, even right out of the box. Neither did my Kel-Tec PLR-16 or H&R Pardner Protector. My Mossberg 590 hasn't ever had any issues either, of course.

6/15/2009 10:57:06 AM

That sucks.
The S&W sounds like a lemon. The taurus could have been oily chambers mixed with a rough breech face.

6/15/2009 11:31:40 AM

Quote :

"You can't really compare a revolver to an LCP in concealment. The LCP is soooo much smaller, flatter, and lighter than any revolver."

As someone who has carried both a j-frame and an LCP, I can say this is very true. I carried the wheelgun probably 30% of the time, and I carry the LCP any and all times I have pants on, unless I'm drinking or I'm in a prohibited area.
It fits in any front pocket in a Wild Bills Concealmetn holster. I think the holster was about $35 or so.

If carrying an LCP is a hassle then carrying a wallet, car keys and a pocket knife would be a hassle as well.

6/15/2009 11:36:55 AM

Quote :

"The S&W sounds like a lemon."

Seems like these types of occurrences have become more frequent in recent years, particularly with the trigger lock models. S&W makes what I consider to be the best wheelguns around, but I generally prefer older ones and I absolutely refuse to own one with that damn lock.

6/15/2009 11:40:46 AM

Quote :

"If carrying an LCP is a hassle then carrying a wallet, car keys and a pocket knife would be a hassle as well."

i'm interested. looks like it might be my next purchase.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 1:35 PM. Reason : ld]

6/15/2009 1:12:11 PM

Meh..

Snag dat PF-9 son.

6/15/2009 2:20:56 PM