Thanks for that summary, as I haven't exactly been on the cusp of this issue.

8/5/2023 4:12:42 PM

^not that there’s anything wrong with that

8/5/2023 4:35:37 PM

Quote :

"So if you leave the ACC for the SEC and start getting $50M/year in TV money, contractually that is all funneled back to the ACC until 2036."

I don't think that's how it works at all. Pretty sure it "grants" a school's media rights to the conference who then contracts with a media company to broadcast games. In this case, the ACC and ESPN/Raycom. If a school decides to leave and pay the exit fee (which i think is the amount equal to 2 years of annual payout), then their media rights stay with the conference. That means that all their home games would still be contractually obligated to the conference and media partners. So if say FSU went to the B1G, ESPN would still hold all rights to broadcast their home games instead of Fox/BTN. The ACC wouldn't get their B1G money, the B1G just wouldn't be able to broadcast any FSU home games until 2036. Without those broadcast rights, there's no way any school would get paid anywhere near a full share by any other conference, especially when there's a decade+ left.

Now if they left for another ESPN conference, it would be less messy, but still the new conference wouldn't really get a bump in pay until the GOR runs out because FSU's rights would still be in the ACC portfolio from an accounting perspective.

8/5/2023 4:55:56 PM

Yeah I was wrong on that. This seems to spell it out better

https://www.deseret.com/2022/7/8/23200963/the-accs-grant-of-rights-keeps-being-brought-up-in-conference-realignment-discussions-heres-why

Quote :

"Explained further by Wiseman, the ACC’s grant of rights means that were a school to leave the conference for another, “the ACC would get any media revenue generated from athletic events on its campus through summer 2036.” Which in essence would mean, as ESPN’s Andrea Adelson explained it, “Any departing school would ... forfeit its media rights and the ability to have home games and some non-conference games air on TV. In all sports. Through 2036.” Throw in exit fees — according to Adelson, those currently stand at $120 million — and that is a lot of money to lose, considering the ACC paid out $36.1 million to each of its 15 schools (that includes Notre Dame) for the 2020-21 fiscal year, per The Athletic. Millions generated primarily by television. And that number is expected to continue to rise."

And then this explains that in order to exit you’d negotiate a fee to buy out that contract, estimated $30M per year remaining.

https://twitter.com/adavidhalejoint/status/1687108782827118593?s=46&t=lHWRQcd88WhEW7wh4gQSIw

8/5/2023 7:15:25 PM

If these mega conferences happen and it looks like they will, will power schools argue for contraction at some point? The Alabama's and Ohio State's might get tired of sharing with the Vanderbilt's, Rutgers and Northwestern's of the world since they generate way less revenue and aren't marquee television properties.

8/6/2023 11:19:34 AM

^I doubt it. They need Vanderbilt and Mississippi State in the SEC so Alabama and Oklahoma have someone to finish ahead of in the standings.

8/6/2023 11:36:17 AM

^that might be true for Miss State or Ark wanting to keeping Vandy around…but Bama is a bad example.

And yes, contraction will happen eventually. The revenues won’t keep going up up up forever. And when that happens, you gotta cut dead weight

[Edited on August 6, 2023 at 11:48 AM. Reason : Bama ain’t struggling to finish above Vandy]

[Edited on August 6, 2023 at 11:49 AM. Reason : A]

8/6/2023 11:48:26 AM

Then if THAT happens we may be looking at some European football type model where schools can have a good 4-5 year run and 'graduate' to the A league.

This would be 10-15 years away though and who knows how things will look at that point.

This probably would have happened eventually however I think the financial hit from the covid season really sped this whole process up.

8/6/2023 12:00:48 PM

What is the most consequential effect this will have on ncsu?

8/6/2023 2:30:37 PM

I have a simple solution. Ban football. A bunch of concussion-addled gargantuans runnin' around chasin' a pigskin! Waste of time!

8/6/2023 2:44:46 PM

^^^^It's not a bad example. The really good teams need someone to finish ahead of, so they can go play the other good teams in the post season. You can't have a league of...

Michigan
Ohio State
Alabama
Oklahoma
Clemson
UCLA
LSU
FSU

If that was a conference with no one else then one of those teams would finish last. You would have to toss in Duke, Vanderbilt, NCSU, Mississippi State, etc to prevent those teams from finishing last.

8/6/2023 3:19:35 PM

Quote :

"What is the most consequential effect this will have on ncsu?"

Short term? Nothing, other than create lots of pissy FSU fans. (Maybe Clemson fans too, but they haven't been nearly as annoying.

Long term? Could mean the ACC fades away to mediocrity, same as an G5 or FCS teams.

8/6/2023 3:56:17 PM

The good news currently for us, and the ACC as a whole, is the big revenue earners who might want to leave for the SEC or B1G are outnumbered by the schools who don't bring in as much money. Maybe FSU could convince Clemson, UNC and Miami to vote with them to leave the conference, but the rest of the schools would vote against it.

8/6/2023 4:15:08 PM

Quote :

"^^^^It's not a bad example. The really good teams need someone to finish ahead of, so they can go play the other good teams in the post season. You can't have a league of.."

No. Those top teams need access to the CFP. With an expanding field, winning the conference is no longer as important as it once was. A 9-3 Bama will still make the CFP and would quite possibly win it all. The middle tier of Ole Miss or whoever needs to keep Vanderbilt around. But Bama doesn’t need to keep Vanderbilt around. Bama needs the Ole Miss-type schools of the world. But they don’t need the Vandys

Quote :

" Michigan Ohio State Alabama Oklahoma Clemson UCLA LSU FSU"

I think this is a big leap in what was being discussed. We were talking about kicking out the dead weight of Vandy or Rutgers. Not the entire middle tier of teams like UF, Tenn, Ole Miss, etc. (but ucla would get their shit smoked in that conference lol)

[Edited on August 6, 2023 at 4:35 PM. Reason : A]

8/6/2023 4:34:17 PM

FSU just looking for something to Blame for why they have fallen off.

NIL money matters a ton, has nothing to do with the TV money. They get more than enough from the ACC and donors to run a very robust athletic department in football and other sports. The only thing they are falling behind on is that they can’t pay themselves more.

Get the right coach with NIL money and FSU could be right back to a consistent top 10 team. And at that point they’d have a much easier time getting into the playoffs then being left at home in the SEC with some extra cash for Christmas bonuses.

8/6/2023 9:09:44 PM

Lol at the ACC looking at Stanford and Cal.

8/8/2023 11:57:55 AM

Is that real?

8/8/2023 1:13:07 PM

Its on ESPN so it must be

8/8/2023 1:35:10 PM

The ACC is reportedly “exploring” Stanford and Cal as candidates for expansion. Definitely not a done deal. And my hunch is that it goes nowhere.

It sounds far fetched but if the ACC had acted sooner (like after UCLA and USC left), I could see a Pac12/ACC partnership working to a degree. More made for TV games vs each other. A yearly tie-in for football games. Pac-12/ACC basketball in-season tournaments. If you could work out postseason arrangement in football too. It would take some really creative and radical changes, and maybe it would’ve had very little traction with TV networks. But I kinda feel like it’s gonna take something pretty radical and creative to save the ACC. Adding Stanford and Cal ain’t what’s gonna do it.

8/8/2023 2:29:49 PM

I'm all for adding Cal and Stanford. If we don't, some other conference will.

8/8/2023 2:35:12 PM

We should just go independent and stream all of our games on Twitch…we could bring in hundreds of dollars

8/8/2023 2:42:34 PM

we should kick all the new team out and go back to 8 or 7 teams

8/8/2023 2:43:22 PM

^^ NC State Athletics onlyfans page

8/8/2023 4:22:50 PM

"And the band is out on the field!"

8/8/2023 4:31:04 PM

If the ACC secures Stanford then they're only one school away from putting together the fabled "Block S Invitational" in house. Picked up Syracuse several years back. Only Michigan State would then be lacking.

8/9/2023 7:00:58 AM

I’m assuming the decision makers are super smart and have figured this all out but the math and money also doesn’t seem to make sense.

It seems at some point these additions have diminishing returns. I get the issue of being too small and expanding the footprint but at what point does ESPN and Fox stop paying for a diluted product?

I get Oregon v. Penn St will move the needle but Washington v Rutgers isn’t. Also if I’m fox or ESPN why wouldn’t they pay a little more to the PAC-12 to try and keep it together as it seems they’ll end up just paying more money for the same games with a different conference logo on the field?

8/9/2023 7:35:18 AM

Footprint doesn't matter. At all. Everything is about brands and how many eyeballs an individual school brings. Conference networks already have national carriage.

8/9/2023 1:13:55 PM

^maybe. I was under the impression there was initial value to adding a market/state that wasn’t currently a part of the current footprint. Why ACC adding a Texas school like SMU was in the mix just to add the Texas market. But also why then adding a second team from that market seems to have diminishing returns.

Anyway I’m probably wrong and I don’t want to spend time learning. I’ll just assume this all makes sense financially .. right?

8/9/2023 8:43:38 PM

Also, what sport is going to be the $money$ maker in the future? Just look at the first several pages of this thread…everyone is building their hypothetical conference around basketball because it was the kewl thing back then. Now it’s football. What’s it gonna be in 15 years? Probably not football says Miss Cleo. If I had to wager what’s gonna be drawing eyeballs down the road, I’d say we need to build the conference around bass fishing. The ACC could be a championship caliber bass fishing league. Hear me out… We kick out UNC, Duke, all of the northern schools, and add ECU, Pitt Community College, and a few others. That’s gonna bring home a few nattys imho. Someone please make sure the ACC front offices read this.

8/9/2023 8:51:00 PM

The first thing we need is better spectator involvement. Maybe floating/pontoon grandstands for students? Obviously you’d want to have some bikini cheerleader/dance babes and maybe a giant water slide?

8/9/2023 10:09:34 PM

Quote :

" Someone please make sure the ACC front offices read this."

They read this. Thats how we get coaches fired so quick

8/9/2023 10:14:01 PM

Quote :

"packboozie All American 17452 Posts user info edit post Clemson in the SEC would be funny...they actually think they are a football power and would get their shit kicked in that league, especially if they keep Dabo. 8/11/2011 11:06:54 PM"

this aged well

8/9/2023 10:24:42 PM

^^^^ pickle ball

8/10/2023 6:15:35 AM

The has 0 chance of happening and it sounds like the Stanford/Cal talks kinda reached a dead end last night. But I already put thought into this so…fuck it

Add Stanford, Cal, Wazzu Oregon State, Boise, and go poach WV from the Big 12 to make an even 20…then adjust scheduling to a pod format for football

Stanford, Cal, Wazzu, Oregon St, Boise
Pitt, BC, WV, UL, Cuse
FSU, Miami, GT, Duke, VT
State, UNC, Clemson, UVa, Wake

Something like that. Winners of each pod go to a final 4 format to determine conference champ. From a fan standpoint, you maintain some of the regionality. You ease the burden of west coast travel by adding an entire group of west coast teams.

It’s not happening and there’s probably a million reasons why it’s a bad idea. But this is the only way any type of west coast expansion works Imo. The ideal is, of course, adding ND full time but that sounds like it’s got 0 chance

8/10/2023 6:42:26 AM

I like the idea, but adding 2 conference championship games would be a tough sell

8/10/2023 8:25:25 AM

It’s all hypothetical and ultimately pointless. But its adding a semifinal round (2 games) and a final. Tough logistically with the conference championships all being held on one weekend. You’d have to move your entire season up a week, I guess. It’s a tough sell with an expanding playoff and concerns of player safety. But you’re adding extra programming, and presumably it would be your better teams playing in those extra games which would ideally be more enticing to ESPN. But, yeah, this isn’t happening.

Mostly, I’m just saying that I think the ACC needs to be really creative in order to survive (as a “power conference”) in the coming years. More creative than just adding Stanford, Cal, and SMU.

8/10/2023 8:40:33 AM

just break football out already. and bring back the ACC before expansion in all other sports (except maryland, fuck them)

8/10/2023 9:44:36 AM

^I've been saying that for a while now. They need to break football away from all other sports and use the NCAA ice hockey model. There are so few hockey teams that d1, d2, and d3 teams all play at the d1 level in conferences that only exist for ice hockey. Then the rest of the sports can go back to their old conferences and college sports will be more fun to watch.

8/10/2023 12:14:11 PM

Quote :

"It’s not happening and there’s probably a million reasons why it’s a bad idea. But this is the only way any type of west coast expansion works Imo. The ideal is, of course, adding ND full time but that sounds like it’s got 0 chance"

Compared to what's actually been happening, this is far from a bad idea. (but agreed, it won't happen)

8/10/2023 1:01:33 PM

Sounds like talks are hearing back up. I still don’t get it. I’ve seen $70 million is what this might add to the conference. And with SMU taking $0, and Cal and Stanford taking partial shares that still doesn’t come out to more than a few million more per school. It’s not gonna keep FSU around.

FSU will bolt as soon as they have a landing offer and enough money to buy themselves out. A few million more per year doesn’t change that. I don’t see how increasing revenue by a few million per year, even if it’s distributed based on performance, is going to prevent the big programs from leaving the second they get a chance.

8/24/2023 9:38:57 AM

I say we become the true Atlantic Coast Conference and add some schools from across the pond. Do Cambridge or Oxford have strong football programs?

8/24/2023 12:13:31 PM

GTFOH, FSU!!

8/24/2023 1:53:31 PM

^^Yes!

https://www.sport.cam.ac.uk/student-sport/university-sports-clubs/football-club-men
https://cuafc.org

https://www.sport.ox.ac.uk/football
https://www.ouafc.club

8/24/2023 6:56:16 PM

saw on Twitter State might be in favor now for voting in the three schools. that would suck donkey dick. it's soooo short sighted. Notre Dame is never going to join as long as they have NBC money.

NBC would have to go bankrupt.

8/25/2023 10:26:19 AM

ND will join a conference as soon as their path to a national title is limited by remaining independent. If whoever controls the national title game ever stops pandering to them, they will immediately cave.

8/25/2023 10:57:52 AM

sure but don't really see that happening anytime soon.

8/25/2023 12:48:59 PM

There's a funny grink on this page but I'm trying to reduce my grink spotting

8/25/2023 6:58:14 PM

I think Notre Dame's upcoming NBC deal is gonna seem pretty weak compared to some of the other conferences TV deals. I hope those Irish fucks just leave but John Swofford was a cuck.

8/25/2023 10:16:06 PM

Quote :

"There's a funny grink on this page but I'm trying to reduce my grink spotting"

Well it wasn't by me because i have famously never been grinked

8/25/2023 11:07:19 PM

Quote :

"Derogatory term referring to a caucasian (white person). Derived from the Spanish word Gringo but meant to be inflammatory."

TIL

8/27/2023 9:32:19 PM