^ do you know what hindsight 20/20 means? Your will power to be wrong in the face of humiliation supersedes that of aaronburro.

4/12/2012 8:43:24 PM

mnfares gettin' tuff itt

4/12/2012 8:44:27 PM

Quote :

"Zimmerman still had no legal obligation to listen to what he had to say."

And that still doesn't mean there won't be consequences after you follow someone and gun them down. Whether or not someone has a legal obligation to obey a dispatcher is irrelevant.

Quote :

"yep, and following Martin is not what caused Martin to get shot."

No, but it's one of several poor decisions that Z made. Any of those decisions go the other way and the kid would be alive. Again, it still doesn't mean there won't be consequences after you follow someone and gun them down.

[Edited on April 12, 2012 at 8:50 PM. Reason : -]

4/12/2012 8:48:15 PM

yeah, im soo wrong, i guess zimmerman is in jail for his own protection.

[Edited on April 12, 2012 at 8:49 PM. Reason : at least im not a jackass telling people to shut the fuck up....]

4/12/2012 8:48:33 PM

^^ the same could be said about Martin too. If he hadn't run he would still be alive.

^ it's better advice than what Zimmerman got on the night he shot Trayvon down. Now thank the man.

4/12/2012 8:53:02 PM

I think I would tell my children to try to run away if they are ever chased by a stranger.

4/12/2012 8:54:56 PM

^^that makes no fucking sense, why should a kid wait around for some stranger to harass them???

[Edited on April 12, 2012 at 8:58 PM. Reason : moron racists itt]

4/12/2012 8:57:44 PM

Quote :

"And that still doesn't mean there won't be consequences after you follow someone and gun them down. Whether or not someone has a legal obligation to obey a dispatcher is irrelevant."

I agree with you. I think Zimmerman was wrong to follow him. I think he made a bad decision, and the consequence includes a criminal trial. I don't think that following him had to end poorly, but it did. I don't think that whether or not he's guilty has ANYTHING to do with obeying the dispatcher's orders. That was my only point.

4/12/2012 9:05:22 PM

^^ why would a person let someone suspicious run away if he thought they would harm someone or their property?

4/12/2012 9:30:17 PM

-Because it is not his responsibility to be a cop
-Because it is not his responsibility to chase people down
-Because he has no authority to apprehend, detain, or otherwise touch another person that is doing nothing wrong
-Because he does not know all the facts
-Because he is not trained to handle situations like that
-Because he is acting on a whim, and might be incorrect
-Because he might put himself or someone else in danger


just a few reasons.

4/12/2012 9:37:41 PM

why should we trust the "suspicions" of an irrational person ?

4/12/2012 9:37:46 PM

people in this thread need to ask themselves what would they do if they were followed by a stranger for no reason.

what do parents tell there kids to do when they are followed by strangers?

4/12/2012 9:38:02 PM

If you are ever approached by a stranger, stop immediately, answer all of his questions, follow all of his directives, ....and hope that when you show him your "papers" declaring yourself as a free negro, he will let you be...

4/12/2012 9:40:08 PM

Quote :

"people in this thread need to ask themselves what would they do if they were followed by a stranger for no reason. what do parents tell there kids to do when they are followed by strangers?"

Depends on where I was.

If I was already inside my fathers gated condo complex that he lived in, my first reaction sure as hell wouldn't be to just take off running.

If we believe what Zimmerman says on the 911 call, he says Trayvon has stopped walking, and is just standing there looking at him, then starts walking towards his car, then takes off running.

So unless Zimmerman just pulls out his gun and flashes at him, I don't see why Trayvons response was to just take off running.

Perhaps he had been up to now good on his walk back from the store, saw a car following him, turned around to see whats up, sees the guy on the phone, presumably with the cops, and takes off.

And again, he had a decent head start, and based on Zimmerman still holding the phone and talking, it's not like he was in a full sprint after Trayvon.

If Trayvons goal was to flee Zimmerman, he would have had no problem doing so.

But again, my response to someone "following me" as I walk down the sidewalk in my fathers gated condo complex isn't going to be to take off running.

4/12/2012 10:00:41 PM

...and therefore Martin deserved to be shot for running?

4/12/2012 10:07:17 PM

Nope, not at all.

Nobody anywhere is saying that.

He didn't get shot while running.

He got shot during a fight.

Which he may or may not have provoked.

4/12/2012 10:08:30 PM

Guilty.

4/12/2012 10:09:38 PM

Even if Martin threw the first punch, I think it's pretty clear Zimmerman is the provocateur.

4/12/2012 10:09:47 PM

Y'all can say what you want, but Martin ain't a kid.

4/12/2012 10:12:53 PM

Martin isn't anything but a corpse.

4/12/2012 10:18:38 PM

^unfortunately true

4/12/2012 10:19:26 PM

Quote :

"If we believe what Zimmerman says on the 911 call, he says Trayvon has stopped walking, and is just standing there looking at him, then starts walking towards his car, then takes off running."

And if we believe that, then we are fucking morons because it goes 100% against what has been described, much less against common sense. Maybe trayvon was actually an alien and thought his cover was blown

Quote :

"But again, my response to someone "following me" as I walk down the sidewalk in my fathers gated condo complex isn't going to be to take off running."

Yeah. the complex that you aren't familiar with because you don't spend a lot of time there so you don't really know anyone.



I still love how your innate response is to assume that Trayvon was doing something wrong. Something, anything. But that fucking punk nigger MUST have been doing something wrong. It's not at all possible to you that Trayvon was minding his own fucking business. There's a million possible scenarios to you, but NONE of them involve Trayvon just minding his own fucking business. I wonder why that is

[Edited on April 12, 2012 at 10:22 PM. Reason : ]

4/12/2012 10:19:37 PM

It does? Please explain.

4/12/2012 10:20:35 PM

Yes. It does.

Quote :

"So unless Zimmerman just pulls out his gun and flashes at him, I don't see why Trayvons response was to just take off running."

Because you're a fucking moron and you don't see anything threatening about someone following you in a car and then getting out and chasing you

[Edited on April 12, 2012 at 10:26 PM. Reason : ]

4/12/2012 10:22:09 PM

He took off running before Zimmerman got out of the car.

4/12/2012 10:27:40 PM

^based on what zimmerman said? can't believe the suspect....

4/12/2012 10:31:35 PM

Zimmerman could have been looking pretty suspicious himself.

4/12/2012 10:32:56 PM

Quote :

"After a gunshot went off? Nope. You'd be an idiot to get involved in that fight. You'd call the cops and lock the doors, like any reasonable person would."

The calls for help came before the gunshot.

But I'm glad you know me better than I know myself. I shake my head at anyone who wouldn't do what they could to help someone screaming for help. It's a sad world we live in when a supposed libertarian says the best optiOn is to call authorities then hide. You've demonstrated one reason why what your view of libertarianism is illogical for humanity.

[Edited on April 12, 2012 at 10:34 PM. Reason : ]

4/12/2012 10:33:47 PM

We hear the car door open after he says he has taken off running.

He had no way to know Trayvon would run when he got out of the car, so it would be pointless for him to just say "He just took off running" if he actually didn't.

4/12/2012 10:34:18 PM

If Martin had shot Zimmerman for chasing him what would have happened?

4/12/2012 10:36:36 PM

Again, it would depend on what sort of "following" we're talking about

4/12/2012 10:37:43 PM

I was in my apartment complexes parking lot at night a few months back walking to my car and happened to be about 30' behind a woman in front of me, and I was behind her for about 20 seconds before she started running. I did happen to park on the side of the building opposite my apartment, which meant the route I was taking was odd, so I'm guessing she got freaked out panicked. It was pretty amusing.

4/12/2012 10:38:53 PM

Quote :

"so it would be pointless for him to just say "He just took off running" if he actually didn't."

Unless what Zimmerman considers running away is what most everyone else considers walking away.

Zimmerman already knew Martin was going to try and get away, because that's what they always do.

4/12/2012 10:42:31 PM

Again, I think that I would tell my children "if ever some stranger follows you in his car, gets out, and starts running after you.... you should run and try to get away."

theDuke866, what would you tell your children to do?

4/12/2012 10:42:49 PM

^^^didnt she look suspicious running, why didnt you call the police and follow her.

[Edited on April 12, 2012 at 10:43 PM. Reason : .]

4/12/2012 10:43:07 PM

^^ Probably the same thing

I haven't said anything about him running.


All I've said is that he got shot because there was a fight. What matters is how it got started.

4/12/2012 10:45:05 PM

Quote :

"But I'm glad you know me better than I know myself. I shake my head at anyone who wouldn't do what they could to help someone screaming for help. It's a sad world we live in when a supposed libertarian says the best optiOn is to call authorities then hide. You've demonstrated one reason why what your view of libertarianism is illogical for humanity. "

Don't say what you would do until actually confronted with the situation.

This story not withstanding, and all our arguing aside, it's easy to sit here and say "Oh, I'd run to the the help of someone" in a situation like this or that. The point I'm getting at is this:

I was still living in Jacksonville Beach, FL up until this semester, took some time off to help my parents out with some stuff. Anyway, was living with a buddy in his condo near the beach. It was the weekend of the Georgia Florida football game. I am up in my room doing some shit when I hear 3 pops. Literally sounded like fireworks, so I am like "Oh, must be someone people shooting some off" since that weekend is nuts down there. It's a pretty nice condo complex, and while there is the usual crime, nothing like this, so you don't assume its gunfire.

Then I hear a guy yell "HELP!! This guy just shot me!" At this point, you think its some guys fucking around or something, so I look out my window and see a guy down on his hands and knees. Still yelling for help, so I go out on the balcony and am literally frozen. I didn't know what to do, do I go down and help, do I too start screaming for help, I was the first person outside seeing it.

I fucking didn't know what to do. Was the gunman still around? What?? Fucking froze like a bitch. Had you asked me before that happened if I would ever run to the help of someone who had just been shot, of course I'd been all "Oh of course, Im not a horrible human, of course I'd run right out and help someone in need!"

Guy ended up dying that night in the hospital. I actually upset me a little, I basically saw a guy yelling for help, did nothing, and he died. Now some other people ran right out there not long after it happened, but I was the first one out there and did nothing. He was probably going to die anyway based on his injuries, so me acting 30seconds sooner more than likely wouldn't have saved his life, but I think you get the point I am trying to make on how it can mess with your mind.

Point is, you can't really predict or know what you actually would do till it happens.

Here is a pic of from my window I took right after the paramedics got there.




Link to the story:

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-10-28/story/man-shot-friday-night-jacksonville-beach-has-died-injuries

4/12/2012 10:46:25 PM

why, in a fist fight with a kid, would a grown man pull out a gun and shot the kid?

i guess zimmerman knew about "stand your ground" and wanted to see how far he could get away with it.

4/12/2012 10:47:55 PM

Quote :

"^^ Probably the same thing I haven't said anything about him running. All I've said is that he got shot because there was a fight. What matters is how it got started."

Fair enough. I think I must have misread something you said, or attributed one of your posts to someone else.

4/12/2012 10:50:38 PM

Did Zimmerman identify himself as the armed self appointed community watch captain when he was pursuing Martin?

4/12/2012 10:51:48 PM

Quote :

"why, in a fist fight with a kid, would a grown man pull out a gun and shot the kid? i guess zimmerman knew about "stand your ground" and wanted to see how far he could get away with it. "

17 isn't a "kid". It's not like he was an 8-year old.

From another post:

but if someone I don't know attacks me, I probably wouldn't shoot them just for punching me once (depending on the circumstances, I guess), but I can tell you that there wouldn't be much of a struggle at all before I started shooting. If you attack me...well, I don't know you, your capabilities, whether or not you're armed, etc. I don't want to take a lucky hit and really get hurt. I'm not looking to give you the benefit of the doubt and hold out to the bitter, bloody end--that ship has sailed, unfortunately. I want to ensure my safety and get out of that situation right now. If you wrongly attack me, I feel threatened, and I escape relatively unscathed by shooting you...well, that's a job well done on my part.

4/12/2012 10:57:11 PM

Yup, but you better be able to articulate why/how you were losing that fight and why you needed to shoot.

4/12/2012 10:58:42 PM

Quote :

"why, in a fist fight with a kid, would a grown man pull out a gun and shot the kid?"

I thought we have been over this before...

Quote :

"based on what zimmerman said? can't believe the suspect...."

Then don't... But if your only "evidence" is that you don't believe Zimmerman, then this is a pointless conversation as you can just make up whatever the fuck you want to fit your own personal perceptions about the case. That, or you're trolling.

Quote :

"Again, I think that I would tell my children "if ever some stranger follows you in his car, gets out, and starts running after you.... you should run and try to get away.""

If only that had happened. According to the Girlfriend Trayvon said he was concerned over being followed and the triffling hoe told him to run... At that point, Zimmerman followed.

4/12/2012 10:59:47 PM

Eh, more like need to articulate why the altercation was started by the other party and not escalated by me.

4/12/2012 11:00:55 PM

Quote :

"triffling hoe"

huh?

4/12/2012 11:03:25 PM

Quote :

"If only that had happened. According to the Girlfriend Trayvon said he was concerned over being followed and the triffling hoe told him to run... At that point, Zimmerman followed. "

O______o ?

4/12/2012 11:03:36 PM

^^^^looks like you're trolling hard.

1. a grown man should know how to handle a kid without killing them.

2. do you believe criminal suspects?

3. wtf is your point there?

and damn, zimmerman is enjoying himself in jail:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/04/12/zimmerman.commissary.purchases.pdf

[Edited on April 12, 2012 at 11:13 PM. Reason : i didnt know you can buy all that shit in jail]

4/12/2012 11:06:05 PM

Quote :

"Don't say what you would do until actually confronted with the situation. ... Point is, you can't really predict or know what you actually would do till it happens. "

Point is, you don't know what situations i've been confronted with :-/

4/12/2012 11:13:03 PM

Look, I could handle most 17 year olds without a gun. I could handle most 25 or 35 or 45 year olds, too.

Now, if it's some drunk guy at a party, who probably doesn't REALLY intend to do me major harm, and there are other people around in case it gets totally out of hand, I'd probably just bust his ass...

...but a stranger out on the street, whom I don't know anything about, what his intentions are, or maybe even why he's attacking me? Yeah, I mean, I could probably handle him barehanded. I also don't feel the need to test that theory if I feel that my safety is threatened.

4/12/2012 11:15:18 PM

Quote :

"All I've said is that he got shot because there was a fight. What matters is how it got started."

It got started because Zimmerman made an incorrect judgement about Martin, and followed him.

4/12/2012 11:15:42 PM