I could be wrong, but I would guess that's normal and that over time your support muscle groups will strengthen to the point where they will not burn out before your chest gets a sufficient workout.

I know when I started doing pushups for P90X my triceps prevented me from getting the burn I really wanted in my pecs. Over time it worked itself out.

6/13/2011 2:11:13 PM

Quote :

"Any recommendations on the best ways to work the pecs? I'm trying to do something about this birdcage, but even if I do pushups to exhaustion, or 4-6 bench, incline or butterfly press reps to failure, I feel more burn and later soreness in my arms. I'm having a hard time targeting the chest; maybe I should be using different grip widths, etc?"

[Note: This could be its very own thread as per discussions in the Lifestyle feedback forum thread]

Chest flies. All of those exercises with the exception of butterfly are relying on triceps and chest working together. Cable flies specifically would be great for targeting the 'edge' chest muscles. I feel the most chest burn when doing these.

Also, having a chest lift limited by tricep ability goes to show you that you need to be working on your body as a whole.

6/13/2011 2:21:12 PM

taking a good PWO protein/carb shake right after training pecs and then eating a good meal 2-3 hours later is how you're going to pack muscle onto your pecs. You want to get bigger, then train a little heavier and eat a lot heavier. You're not going to grow if you're not providing your body with the building blocks it needs.

6/13/2011 3:28:27 PM

Oh, I know. I'm just an Ectomorph All-Star (big ups to Quinn). I've been working with the dietitian at my gym to put together a better diet plan that packs on the calories. Operation Fattie is in full effect, and I now weigh 10 pounds more than I've ever weighed in my life, but that still means I'm 176 and 6'7".

6/13/2011 3:39:12 PM

go all out then

http://stronglifts.com/gomad-milk-squats-gallon-gain-weight/

6/13/2011 3:43:30 PM

Fully agree on the diet. With your height/weight it sounds like you'll also need to be focusing on large motion compound lifts - bench, squat, deadlift - first before getting into isolation. Your muscles need to learn to work together, and these lifts help develop a foundation of muscle mass.

Aside from that, to answer your question, a very wide grip bench focuses more on your chest. I bet with your wingspan that you're already at the limit of the bench though

That's another thing, you may have your arms in too close on your bench lifts, causing you to be burning out your triceps. I can't remember the positioning of your grip in relation to your shoulders though

6/13/2011 3:46:25 PM

if you want to make your pecs bigger (no shocker here), make sure you SQUAT at least 2 times per month. And i mean heavy. Heavier than you probably want to. Between each rep, take a huge ass breath and expand your rib cage. Hey, it worked for Arnold, and he could balance a glass on the top of his pecs.

Also, focus on rowing movements with your lats. Find a T bar row and do 4 sets of 10-12 reps and in the same workout, do face pulls on a cable, 4 sets of 12-15 reps. When you bench, you want to be able to "row" the barbell to your chest and be able to have the utmost left for the concentric portion of the lift. It will also expand your upper body allowing your pecs to spread out across your shoulder girdle.

If you don't know, a face pull is done while standing, on a high cable machine, just like a seated row, but you row the weight to your nose with a close grip pulldown bar held sideways.

I wouldn't stray away from barbell presses, dips, and dumbell presses. Bodybuilders do flies, cable crossovers, machines, etc to get themselves more defined. If you are having a hard time building chest mass, you shouldn't stray away from simple, HEAVY, compound movements. Somewhere to failure within the 6-8 range is perfect for serious size and mass. Anything less and you are training for power, more reps, and you won't get the strength gains.

6/13/2011 3:49:08 PM

^^ your grip should be natural. lay under the bar, close your eyes and put up your hands like you would do a normal pushup. you now have your bench press grip. your elbows and wrists should be in line always for maximum pressing ability. if they veer one way or the other, you have taken away your mechanical advantage.

your triceps are the PRIME MOVERS for a barbell bench press. you would not be wrong to err on the narrow side and focus on sheer chest (elbows out) with dumbell presses. on the barbell bench press, your elbows should form a 45 degree angle with your torso if you're looking to get stronger.

6/13/2011 3:52:28 PM

I've never gotten that...how does squat help your chest?

6/13/2011 3:53:44 PM

when you squat, you release hormones that will make you stronger and grow. deadlifts don't have quite the same effect because you are taking away the excentric portion of the lift.

Squatting heavy in the 4-6 rep range will improve your strength even if you neglected your other muscles. There are a ton of forums and articles on "teh Intarnets"
which will justify the above.

You could also just look at the pathetic scrailings walking around in the gym and notice they don't squat and that's why they lift and lift and lift and don't get anything out of it.

Anyway, it also expands your ribcage which will eventually round out your torso (DEEP breaths between reps). As it expands, you will have more space to work with and it will give the appearance of a larger chest. Now, we ain't talking six inches, but it does work.


[Edited on June 13, 2011 at 4:15 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on June 13, 2011 at 4:15 PM. Reason : .]

6/13/2011 4:04:46 PM

Quote :

"when you squat, you release hormones that will make you stronger and grow. deadlifts don't have quite the same effect because you are taking away the excentric portion of the lift. Squatting heavy in the 4-6 rep range will improve your strength even if you neglected your other muscles. There are a ton of forums and articles on "teh Intarnets" which will justify the above. You could also just look at the pathetic scrailings walking around in the gym and notice they don't squat and that's why they lift and lift and lift and don't get anything out of it. Anyway, it also expands your ribcage which will eventually round out your torso (DEEP breaths between reps). As it expands, you will have more space to work with and it will give the appearance of a larger chest. Now, we ain't talking six inches, but it does work."

Could've done without the chit chat. I see how the hormone release would be beneficial, especially with how much muscle the legs take up, but I don't see why dead lifts wouldn't do the same thing. I guess you can get heavier weight with squats and/or you are concentrating more of the work on legs?

6/13/2011 4:28:52 PM

with a squat, you lower the weight, stop it by contracting your muscles, and then lift back up. The muscles are put under extreme eccentric tension at the bottom of the lift. With a deadlift, you lift the weight and then lower it, letting the floor stop the weight and unload the tension.

6/13/2011 4:38:17 PM

please don't get me wrong, deadlifts are a superior exercise for developing gluteal and hamstring strength. your posterior chain is worked a ton. but, you don't get the eccentric portion.

even squats are limited in their posterior chain development. good mornings are much more beneficial, but they are typically a squat boosting exercise.

different strokes for different folks. you have to find what works for YOU. but, there is plenty out there that shows the benefits of getting in the hole.

6/13/2011 4:47:19 PM

SR it's partly (modest) genetics. Other advice given seems reasonable. Height and weightlifting kind of suck. I wouldn't want to be any shorter though. Nice work on the weight gain. I know what you're going through. I'm working on getting some speed back for sports this fall and the extra weight even lean is noticeable!!! I'm sure you've seen that.

ectomorphic sign out

6/13/2011 5:01:52 PM

Quote :

"I now weigh 10 pounds more than I've ever weighed in my life"

awesome, Shadowrunner!!!

6/13/2011 5:53:33 PM

So this past week has been my "eat whatever I want and don't exercise" week since it's the first time I've been in the States.

I gained 10 lbs. haha

Got back to my workouts today and burned 700 calories to start. Diet got back to normal too and I still have 1200 calories to play with for the evening.

I'm on the same time zone as y'all right now!

6/13/2011 6:07:35 PM

You people have it so easy. My bulking/cutting phases consist of "disciplined" and "super disciplined." The thought of having to work to put on mass is completely foreign to me.

6/13/2011 6:08:15 PM

Nothing is easy !!!!!!! Same game different rules. Losing is more acceptable though!

6/13/2011 9:29:53 PM

Ah, that makes sense, thanks for the explanations eleusis and maximus. The science behind weight lifting is something that is fascinating to me, but I've never taken the effort to look into it.

Sounds like a lot of workouts would benefit from more negative sets overall, in addition to mixing speed lifts (high acceleration and speed or whatever) to work quick-snap muscles.

6/13/2011 9:44:56 PM

Quote :

"I'm happy to report that Quinn is about 5 and a half pounds two pounds from being the "fat one" of our gym team."

6/14/2011 9:48:09 AM

The anabolic effects of transiently elevated levels of testosterone from squatting has been questioned and refuted in some studies. It's still pretty inconclusive.

However, squatting does teach you how to endure and generate significant amounts of force. This teaches you how to lift heavier in other lifts too. It is also one of the best lifts for axial loading which is paramount for significant tissue and bone adaptions.

Plus, who wants to be all jacked in the upper body with chicken beanpole legs?

6/14/2011 11:04:46 AM

I'd rather have a jacked upper body than look like Tom Platz. Leg development has always been my strong point though.

6/14/2011 11:22:22 AM

is it normal to feel a really tight/sore lower back after squats, deadlifts?

6/14/2011 11:29:27 AM

that's usually a sign that your form was breaking down and you were rounding out your back.

6/14/2011 11:39:37 AM

looks like i need to start working in some more hip/flexor mobility stretches and foam rolling. a combination of a primarily sedentary job, poor posture, and then the bout last year with immobility are having a distinct effect on a.)how sore my hips are on rest days and b.)explosiveness and effectiveness coming off the box in box squats.

well, be more diligent and aggressive about it.

worked on mixed grip with deadlifting this morning. moderate success. didn't increase the weight this time, since trying to change the grip, wanted to do something somewhat comfortable. need to do a lot of warmup weight sets to get the form right. felt like i have better form with double overhand, which doesn't make a lot of sense. almost like i was getting a touch uneven on the ascent.

baby steps.

it had been a while since i went to lift at 5am. i wish it was that desolate all the time.

6/14/2011 11:53:42 AM

Thoughts on the fat-burning effects of cottage cheese.

Go.

6/14/2011 12:40:45 PM

It doesn't burn fat, obviously. It's a casein protein, and it takes a while for your body to digest it. It's useful as a bedtime snack, as it prevents muscle catabolism overnight. I prefer greek yogurt.

6/14/2011 12:52:36 PM

it's not going to have a noticeable effect on your weight loss. There are lots of foods that have miniscule effects on metabolism that get blown out of proportion by fitness magazines in an attempt to have something to write about.

6/14/2011 12:53:47 PM

^^^ don't forget to push your hips forward.

6/14/2011 4:34:15 PM

Yes. Thrust directly into the cottage cheese for maximum effect.

[Edited on June 14, 2011 at 5:27 PM. Reason : ]

6/14/2011 5:26:52 PM

hahahah

[Edited on June 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM. Reason : im srsly cracking up over here]

6/14/2011 6:30:15 PM

while working on my "beach body" this morning, i got PINNED. Ugh. It happens to everyone I guess. otherwise....

bench press 3x3x3x1x1x1 (pinned, but not badly, on new max rep attempt)
30 degree incline dumbell press 3x8
french press (skull crushers) 4x6
cable pressdowns 3x12
30 degree incline flies 2x12 w/ super light weight for the stretch, 11% of 1RM


for some reason, even after (12+) years of serious lifting, my upper body does not respond in the morning as well as my lower body.

any insights (besides them unbanning ultimate orange [best get up supplement EVER])?

6/15/2011 9:14:34 AM

^I'd guess your nervous system is not primed for action. Generally males have their highest levels of testosterone in the morning, so that probably isn't the problem.

Suggestion: Add in some high speed/power movements at the beginning of your session. MB push throws or plyo push ups (various jumps when doing lower body, or olympic lifts) in an 3-8sets x 3-5reps scheme. All reps done fresh, full recover between sets.

And... use a spotter when going maximally, maximus, haha

6/15/2011 10:02:15 AM

Dead Lift Day:

Various box jumps 8x3
Dead Lift: 250lbs 3x10+ (13 on last set)
Back Ext. +25lbs 3x10
Curls 80#BB 3x10
1 leg squats on box 5x5
Abs
Shrugs


High rep dead lifts are brutal.

6/15/2011 10:04:46 AM

30+ deadlifts?

jesus, b.

6/15/2011 10:20:05 AM

I just started doing those but I've never done more than 6 in a set. Usually on the last one if feels like my body is gonna fall apart. I still hate squats more though.

6/15/2011 10:59:18 AM

^^When you get more developed muscles, its not inconceivable to do a high amount of high-rep sets to get the burn you want without high weight. Hell on chest days I'd do, shit, 60 reps or more on the bench between warm up, pyramid scheme, then cool down...followed by incline, chest flies, and whatever else there was. Deadlifts would be about the same last summer.

Risky as hell to do high weight, 1 rep max workouts by yourself. I never do them. The most weight I'll do alone I can still do 3 on my own, with 5 being a max effort with a spotter...and typically only up to 3 sets at that level.

[Edited on June 15, 2011 at 11:21 AM. Reason : lkj]

6/15/2011 11:19:53 AM

hope you're not using a suicide grip either

goodbye, throat

6/15/2011 11:29:01 AM

MattJMM2:

Are those classic dead lifts (all the way to the floor)? Or "romanian deads"?

6/15/2011 2:47:56 PM

They were conventional dead lifts with double overhand grip, until grip failed then I moved to mixed. That weight I used is ~60% of my 1Rep Max which last time I PR'ed (about 3 months ago) was 435lbs.

I've never really done high rep DLs before, but this new 16-week program I've started calls for very high volume at the beginning.

It is not for the beginner unless you are doing VERY light weight relative to your training 1rep max.

6/15/2011 3:03:30 PM

Quote :

"Yes. Thrust directly into the cottage cheese for maximum effect."

I lol'd.

So I've in the past three days I've already lost 6 of the 10 lbs that I gained last week. (Not watching what you eat when you come back to the US is kinda ridiculous.) I'm having fun with it again with all of my friends back home noticing the 40 lb loss and asking how I did it and how they can too.

I need to get a Beachbody Coach account goin on.

6/15/2011 3:20:57 PM

Damn, this is just making me want to do deadlifts. I need to be less lazy about taking the bar down off of my bench

6/15/2011 3:35:26 PM

quit being lazy

I did dl's yesterday

6/15/2011 5:49:36 PM

Doing yoga tonight. I'll have my goal which shall not be discussed accomplished by three more classes.

6/15/2011 5:54:49 PM

Weigh in this morning = 278.8

So far down 10lbs in 3 weeks

6/16/2011 11:03:26 AM

foam rolling, first thing out of bed in the morning:

6/16/2011 11:55:30 AM

^ you actually want to warm up a little before you stretch. do some jumping jacks or jump rope.

6/16/2011 2:14:30 PM

I don't believe it's necessary to warmup before using a foam roller...

6/16/2011 2:38:54 PM

DE Lower Body

Box Squats @ 50% 1RM 2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 and 1 rep at 70% 1RM (straps down, no wraps)
Hip Pull Throughs 4x12
Poor Man's Glute Ham Raises (on a lat pull down seat) 3x10
Standing Cable Abs 3x10
T-Bar Rows 2x6
Face Pulls 2x12
Curls 2x10

For the Glute Ham raises, I put my achilles tendons under the knee pads and my shins were on the seat of the lat pull down. I had to use a stretch bar to hold my upper body when I went flat since I lack the enormous strength it would take to hold my entire body without a knee pad. Boy did i get some odd looks.

I am noticing a serious deficiency in glute strength. NEED, NEED, NEED to work on my glute/ham raises and start doing some serious glute work out of the stretched position.

Any advice on how to "fire" the glutes from the stretched position? Definate weak point.

6/16/2011 2:49:10 PM

Have you tried glute bridges?

6/16/2011 2:51:27 PM