Laws shift cultural moors which get ingrained in us from childhood. Defying your innate cultural tendencies is a difficult thing to do. Laws do have an effect.

Each person is a blank slate, representing a paragon of independence...

... Said no statistician, psychologist, or sociologist, ever.

5/6/2013 9:37:21 AM

Culture is by definition not innate.

5/6/2013 10:04:06 AM

I know that but there are levels to which aspects of culture are ingrained, and I was referring to the deeper levels.

I assumed people would get that. It's a tww post, not an essay, try to fill in the gaps yourself.

5/7/2013 7:08:22 PM

5/7/2013 7:18:18 PM

5/7/2013 8:03:59 PM

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/05/07/4028233/nc-house-oks-guns-on-campuses.html

oh no, every campus will be full of wild west style shootouts since all CCP holders are wreckless shooters with no aim who pull and fire any chance they get! even though they can't prevent VT type killers because they have to have their guns locked up!


[Edited on May 8, 2013 at 12:12 AM. Reason : (looks like it was discussed itt already but now its official)]

5/8/2013 12:04:39 AM

Makes sense. Ccw holder shouldn't be a criminal just for driving onto campus.

If va tech can be used to relax gun control, newtown can be used to tighten it.

5/8/2013 12:19:35 AM

"You passed this FBI background test to get your CCP, and no CCP holder has ever taken an innocent life with a gun, ever, in all of history, but they're not qualified to carry a gun on them on a campus, cause, maybe the first CCP holder in the history of all-time will shoot an innocent"

5/8/2013 12:32:53 AM

no CCP holder has ever taken an innocent life?

5/8/2013 7:36:00 AM

the bill does nothing to actually allow students to defend themselves on campus

5/8/2013 7:47:21 AM

^True. But it does help me out, or would have. At my previous job at a local school district, I worked in town but lived way out of town. Since I parked on campus, I could not have my revolver in the truck. So when I went shopping afterwards, getting gas, visiting with family, etc. I was unable to carry, unless I chose to drive a half hour back home and then back again with it. At least with this new legislation I could have it in the vehicle so that after work is done, I could realistically use my CCP. At the time I was only able to realistically carry on weekends. In my current situation this does not help as I just take a bus to work. But if we buy a place and I have to drive in, it will benefit me again. Obviously the best thing would be if they allowed me to bring it to my office. But I'll take even this slight benefit over "OMFG guns are bad mkay" that we currently have here.

5/8/2013 8:18:32 AM

Quote :

"At my previous job at a local school district, I worked in town but lived way out of town. Since I parked on campus, I could not have my revolver in the truck. So when I went shopping afterwards, getting gas, visiting with family, etc. I was unable to carry, unless I chose to drive a half hour back home and then back again with it."

it's like we live on a different planet. never once in my life have I had one second of thinking "I sure could use a gun right now" and it sounds like you think that on a very regular basis

5/8/2013 8:43:27 AM

well, there's the problem. we should all just think like you.

5/8/2013 8:59:14 AM

its pretty annoying that the headlights keep saying "allows concealed carry on campus" since it doesn't really. i really wish it went further and allowed concealed carry on campus, but even with Republicans I doubt that would have passed.

[Edited on May 8, 2013 at 9:07 AM. Reason : headlights = autocorrected headlines ]

5/8/2013 9:07:22 AM

"house passes bill to allow firearms locked up in personal vehicles on state property" doesn't quite get folks wound up

5/8/2013 9:10:36 AM

Quote :

"the bill does nothing to actually allow students to defend themselves on campus"

true, but it does get rid of the unconstitutional act of disarming law abiding citizens just because they cross a property line.

5/8/2013 9:15:48 AM

unconstitutional?

really?

5/8/2013 9:18:48 AM

it doesn't really get rid of that (not)unconstitutional limit, since you still can't carry concealed on campus

[Edited on May 8, 2013 at 9:20 AM. Reason : .]

5/8/2013 9:19:59 AM

it's unconstitutional. I don't care what your homeboys wearing robes say. the simple act of crossing a property line isn't grounds for stripping away a constitutional right.

^that's another issue to be tackled.

[Edited on May 8, 2013 at 9:22 AM. Reason : .]

5/8/2013 9:21:07 AM

and how does this bill get rid of that? it doesn't

5/8/2013 9:22:30 AM

i'm with dtownral on this one. i don't consider myself "armed" unless the firearm is on or about my person. making me leave it locked up in my vehicle is still disarming me.

5/8/2013 9:34:54 AM

^



[Edited on May 8, 2013 at 9:36 AM. Reason : i mean its a helpful improvement, but you are still disarmed on campus. ]

5/8/2013 9:35:46 AM

Quote :

"no CCP holder has ever taken an innocent life with a gun, ever, in all of history, but they're not qualified to carry a gun on them on a campus, cause, maybe the first CCP holder in the history of all-time will shoot an innocent"

Quote :

"no CCP holder has ever taken an innocent life?"

Why would anyone even guess that might be true?
http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm

5/8/2013 9:36:16 AM

5/9/2013 11:34:17 AM

i see facebook posts are making the rounds today

[Edited on May 9, 2013 at 1:52 PM. Reason : ]

5/9/2013 1:51:06 PM

http://m.nbcnews.com/technology/government-requests-3-d-printed-gun-files-taken-down-pending-1C9869123

3d printed gun taken offline.

I half expected this, technology always poses new questions.

Regardless of what happens, it won't be too long before some other design is available online somewhere. 3d printers are like a very primitive form of replicators in Star Trek. Possession of CAD plans seems like it would fall under 1st amendment rules. It'll be interesting to see how the law views this. If books on how to make bombs are legal, how could this not be legal too?

5/9/2013 10:08:39 PM

CNC machines have been around for decades.

5/10/2013 8:33:21 AM

The US constitution was ratified in 1788.

5/10/2013 10:05:16 AM

a great example of needing to enforce existing laws:

http://www.wral.com/nc-gun-shop-owners-lawmakers-decry-gun-law-loopholes/12428409/

5/10/2013 10:47:55 AM

Quote :

"CNC machines have been around for decades."

cool, if i send you a .prt file could you show me how to CNC an internal void?

5/10/2013 11:15:22 AM

You can already buy incomplete guns that are a drill press away from being a fully functioning weapon that is way better than the plastic piece of shit a 3D Printer will produce. Since it's incomplete when it's sold, it's considered nothing more than a hunk of metal and doesn't have to be serialized. Presto, you have an untraceable gun.

5/10/2013 11:17:00 AM

a drill press away isn't hyperbole? where can you buy those?

5/10/2013 11:18:27 AM

http://www.ktordnance.com/kto/products.php

Quote :

"In order to complete this unfinished frame: The slide rails cut, the barrel seat cut, hammer, and sear holes drilled. "

5/10/2013 11:20:21 AM

so yes, it was hyperbole

5/10/2013 11:34:40 AM

Its called an 80% lower

5/10/2013 2:12:51 PM

And the reason why 3D printing has gotten attention is that now you can download a file and create a part that requires almost no skill or machining; while with a CNC, traditional tooling, or 80% lower you are required to have basic machining or gunsmithing/armorer skills. It's not an issue because its the first time that someone can make a gun, its an issue because its the first time any layperson can make a gun.

5/10/2013 2:24:16 PM

call me when common criminals are going on sprees with single shot plastic guns and causing real problems.

5/10/2013 2:40:10 PM

so you really don't see how the mass production of firearms by a layperson could potentially be bad?

5/10/2013 2:44:21 PM

Yeah, I'm not really worried about plastic guns causing any sort of escalation in gun violence. All this will do is make it so 3D Printers are heavily regulated and almost impossible to acquire without strict licensing requirements.

5/10/2013 2:51:46 PM

Oh, I do. And obviously there should be restrictions/bans/some type of law regarding it, but for now, it's fearmongering.

[Edited on May 10, 2013 at 2:54 PM. Reason : not to say you should wait until there's a problem]

5/10/2013 2:53:59 PM

zip guns and saturday night specials were used in crimes plenty until, and for awhile after, they were banned in '68

5/10/2013 3:08:49 PM

Some ppl ITT can't see the forest through the trees, WRT 3D printing.

5/10/2013 3:32:07 PM

Guns don't kill people! 3D printers that make guns kill people!

5/10/2013 4:40:09 PM

^^ explain please

5/10/2013 9:42:47 PM

Guns are only a problem when minorities possess them

5/10/2013 11:11:06 PM

Go back to a different soap box thread, your race baiting is played out in this out.

5/11/2013 7:58:02 AM

^^
That's pretty much what causes Reagan to ban them.

We just need to Black Panthers to march on a country club with their weapons and watch the gun control legislation roll out.

5/11/2013 3:21:37 PM

^^^^
3D printers have been around in industry for a while, and I think the 747's wing is made with a giant industrial 3D metal printer. http://www.3ders.org/3d-printing.html

But they are being made compact and desk sized now, and starting to be easy enough to use for "everyday" people to use them. It's sort of like how smartphones were around for years before the iPhone, but the iPhone brought it to the masses because it was slick and easy to use. User experience matters for technology.
http://www.explainingthefuture.com/3dprinting.html (good article but only the beginning and end are relevant)

This whole gun thing is the perfect issue that demonstrates the challenges of 3D printers. There are already prototypes that can print with mixed media (metal/plastic), different colors, using recycle plastic, etc., and all Billy Boy has to do is buy one from Amazon and download a plan from bit torrent, and be done. But how can this be regulated? The way we regulate music is only partially analogous, and you can still pretty much find any music/movie/tvshow easier than when Napster was around.

More than 100,000 people have downloaded the plans for this gun, it's in the wild. Any one of them can print a gun now. Simple bans don't make sense (just like how it's illegal to pirate music, but it's done en masse). You can arrest someone for having the gun, but the designs are just data, can you criminalize having the data (doubtful-- it would meet even more opposition than trying to expand background checks). If this were a company selling a plastic gun, it would be easy to stop it from disseminating.

When 3D printers become more complex, powerful, and easy to use, it has the potential to make the IP suits that Napster heralded seem like tearing the tag from a mattress.

What are corporations going to do when you don't actually have to buy most of the hardware you'd find in a Lowe's anymore? They're going to first try to sue people for stealing their designs, until it becomes unstoppable, then they'll readjust their business models, or turn the country into a corporate run despotism. To see how 3D printers are going to change things, imagine they are like the replicators in Star Trek. What gov. or corporation could really stop someone from making pretty much whatever can be made?

5/11/2013 4:48:00 PM

First of all, the last thing you need to be worried about is "billy boy" making a 3d gun. The printers are too expensive, and it will be years before "billy boy" can go to Best Buy and get one. Second, I guarantee you every one of "Billy Boy's" guns are legal, with his background checks checking out. He doesn't need to print a one-shot plastic gun. This would be beneath "Billy Boy." He has plenty of real ones.

What you should be worried about is a would-be assassin out for some high ranking official, getting it past any type of checkpoint. And besides, any plastic dense enough to be able to withstand the pressures of a bullet would probably show up on an xray, if you're worried about them making their way on planes.

I love how you point out that "Billy Boy" is the problem here. The first person you should've gone to is a terrorist trying to get these plans. THEY would be the ones to have funding to buy this type of printer, THEY would be the first one to try to use it.

I've been following this thread for a while now, and no one has yet to answer the question....how much good will more gun laws do us when criminals aren't going to follow them in the first place?

5/11/2013 5:12:21 PM

^their answer is that we might all become criminals, so we should just ban everything just in case.

5/11/2013 5:58:24 PM