Quote :

"My problem is that the way they explained it made all of the stuff the audience was invested in and interested in completely pointless to the story of the characters. "

Quote :

"The characters could have gone through anything together in the 'actual' timeline and the flash sideways would have meant the same thing."

SOME audience members were only interested in those things. A LOT of us realized the show is about the characters and not the island.

The island story is EXTREMELY relevant. It's the series of events that made all of those people so important to each other. How the hell can that not be relevant to those specific people creating a "place" to meet up with each other before moving on in the after-life?

5/24/2010 10:46:39 AM

^^relevant to the resolution of the story, you stupid fuck.

What the characters went through was irrelevant to the resolution. It could have been anything.

Want me to explain anything else for you?

Quote :

"It's the series of events that made all of those people so important to each other"

You can plug in any series of events that makes them important to eachother. It actually makes WHAT they went through, i.e. the island, irrelevant to the resolution.


[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 10:51 AM. Reason : *]

5/24/2010 10:49:18 AM

You're right, it could have been any major experience. But the series showed us the major experience that it WAS.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 10:53 AM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 10:49:56 AM

surprisingly death renders life irrelevant.

5/24/2010 10:50:32 AM

^^^

it's almost cute how upset you are over this.

There's no point in arguing with you, though. You are far too obtuse. Hope you figure out how to justify all the time you wasted on a show you hate.

5/24/2010 10:56:25 AM

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questions

5/24/2010 11:00:51 AM

Quote :

" * What is Bea's role and rank within the Others? "

I HAVE TO KNOW

5/24/2010 11:03:05 AM

Quote :

"Hope you figure out how to justify all the time you wasted on a show you hate."

This quote wins the thread.

5/24/2010 11:08:03 AM

who would have watched a show that was just about characters?

its call the young and the restless

5/24/2010 11:09:16 AM

so when sayid killed people in purgatory, where did they go?

5/24/2010 11:17:30 AM

^^ essentially, yes. I've told people for years that Lost is really just a soap opera with some cooler/more interesting story lines. I have no problem recognizing and acknowledging that.

5/24/2010 11:19:49 AM

Quote :

"it's almost cute how upset you are over this. There's no point in arguing with you, though. You are far too obtuse. Hope you figure out how to justify all the time you wasted on a show you hate."

Oh I enjoyed the show, up until the resolution; thats the only part I dislike. I had a great time with it, even re-watched it on dvd.

Keep giving the 'you're too dumb to argue with' line. It pretty much marks the lowest common denominator in a discussion anyway. Not that I am surprised to hear it coming from you

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 11:23 AM. Reason : *]

5/24/2010 11:19:54 AM

Quote :

" essentially, yes. I've told people for years that Lost is really just a soap opera with some cooler/more interesting story lines random bullshit added. I have no problem recognizing and acknowledging that."

5/24/2010 11:23:43 AM

Quote :

"so when sayid killed people in purgatory, where did they go?"

Those other people didn't really exist. Just like Jack's son.

This is apparently an entirely acceptable resolution.

5/24/2010 11:24:44 AM

Last night at 11:30, I was like "WTF? No seriously, WTF"

Then, by the time I'd processed it for an hour and rewatched the final 10 minutes, I was like "ok, I guess that was a reasonable ending..."

After sleeping on it, I think it was a brilliant ending.

I'm ok with not getting the "full" answers to the island. If they had made up some story about what the island actually was (i.e. it was built by ancient Klingons who traveled here from the 8th dimension on their pilgrimage to Babylon 5 and the light is actually the souls of Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis and oh yeah the Man in Black's name is Stephen...), it wouldn't necessarily be a better show than what we saw last night. (actually, that above answer would be awesome, but I digress...)

In the end, we got what we needed. At least I did...

5/24/2010 12:34:26 PM

I could have done without the gratification of seeing everyone meet up and live in the after life happily ever after, but then again I have an emotional and intellectual quotient of greater than 85. It was after all a tv show and I wasn't surprised by the feel good ending. Overall I enjoyed the series. The ending wasn't spectacular and I wish there would have been more of a resolution to the island storyline, you know, the real world. I'll probably watch the entire series again on DVD at some point.

5/24/2010 12:39:17 PM

I hate that this thread has become a series of pissing contests and wish we could just discuss what happened and bounce ideas/theories off each other beyond just "it fucking sucked!" and "no, you just didn't get it. It was actually fantastic."

As far as what Rat Soup said about Ben's seemingly sudden redemption...i think he had a pretty big realization about him and his motives when Locke told him he was going to destroy the island anyway. I think the big moment for him came when Jack passed the job on to Hurley, not him, and Ben didn't say or do anything. He was still probably jealous that he wasn't special, but he was no longer driven by that jealousy. He, essentially, redeemed himself.

As far as why Michael, Miles, Lapidus, etc. were not there, I don't think they were ready to "move on" or "let go" yet. Michael even said as much about himself in the (seemingly at the time lame) whispers revelation.

Also, I agree with those who are saying they didn't die in the initial crash. Just pointing out that it was noteworthy that Jimmy Kimmel thought he died in the crash (when Rose told him, "you can let go now"), and that Matthew Fox, who as we know plays Jack, agreed.

5/24/2010 12:52:20 PM

actors are dumbasses. Story at 11.

Or more likely, actors like to drum up interest in shows that ended to support residuals. Story at 11.

V
I see "leaving the actors in the dark" is further indication that they had no idea what they were doing.
It's not like the chest bursting scene in Alien. If god-damned Matthew Fox doesn't even know the plot....

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 1:11 PM. Reason : dark]

5/24/2010 12:57:33 PM

^That's true, but still, Jack must've had at least a little insight from Lindelof, Cuse, and the like. Just thought it was worth noting, that's all. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Lindelof and Cuse didn't tell Matthew Fox a thing regarding when he died, what was real, what was after death, etc. They supposedly left their actors, even Matthew Fox, in the dark a lot. Which I kind of dig, because it lends itself more to open interpretations.

And, again, let me say that I do not think myself that they died in the initial crash. Still, I can see why someone would think that, given what exactly Rose said to Jack and the fact that they showed the vacant remains of the plane crashed on the island at the end.

EDIT: Just saw this

Quote :

"I could have done without the gratification of seeing everyone meet up and live in the after life happily ever after, but then again I have an emotional and intellectual quotient of greater than 85"

I told myself I wasn't going to get involved in all these pissy little arguments, but this is just silly. IQ has no correlation whatsoever to whether or not you liked the ending of this show or the direction it took. Ultimately, as has been said, the show was all about the characters. The ending might have SEEMED melodramatic if you weren't paying close enough attention to the characters and their paths and how they all had stories of redemption on the island, but it was not melodramatic, IMO. It was well-done, rewarding drama. Not sci-fi, or anything close to it, but drama. Me, personally, I like drama when it doesn't go into hokey or corny territory and for me, Lost didn't do that. But let me reiterate that what you thought of the ending has NOTHING whatsoever to do with your IQ. There will be many, many intelligent people who watched this show and liked the ending, and there will probably be just as many who watched the show and disliked the ending.


[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 1:12 PM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 1:05:18 PM

Quote :

"Jimmy Kimmel thought he died in the crash (when Rose told him, "you can let go now"), and that Matthew Fox, who as we know plays Jack, agreed."

Fox didn't agree, he awkwardly acknowledged that it was a possibility.

5/24/2010 1:11:25 PM

^Didn't he say something along the lines of "Yeah, I think so, too" or "I think that's right" or something? Or did Jimmy just ask him if it was possible and he said "Yeah?"

5/24/2010 1:12:50 PM

To the best of my recollection, he said something like "....uh...could be, yeah"

5/24/2010 1:14:21 PM

So it was all a dream. Hmm.

5/24/2010 1:14:39 PM

Quote :

"Just pointing out that it was noteworthy that Jimmy Kimmel thought he died in the crash (when Rose told him, "you can let go now"), and that Matthew Fox, who as we know plays Jack, agreed. "

Matthew Fox said "that's possible"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCXlLNWRULo

5/24/2010 1:14:55 PM

Yeah, I like that they didn't tell Terry O'Quinn that he was the smoke monster, he just thought he was a more confident Locke.

Also, the Man in Black's name was Samuel.

Quote :

"As far as why Michael, Miles, Lapidus, etc. were not there, I don't think they were ready to "move on" or "let go" yet. Michael even said as much about himself in the (seemingly at the time lame) whispers revelation."

That, or maybe they just went to their own purgatory world because they could have made more powerful connections with other people after they left the island.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 1:17 PM. Reason : WALLLLLTTTT]

5/24/2010 1:15:20 PM

Walt wasn't there because of puberty and you know it. Quit acting like the actors that weren't in the ending had some sort of significance to the story.

Granted, they could have just used an adult black dude or claimed something like "when they die they return to an age that they liked" or some other totally arbitrary rule. But that would have been yet another question about their boondoggle of a story.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 1:26 PM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 1:24:52 PM

Yeah, just rewatched. He agreed about the island being Jack's "test," but he just said "it's possible" regarding him dying on the plane.

Why do you think the MiB's name is Samuel?

Also, there needs to be a spinoff of Ben and Hurley's adventures on the island together. Not really, though.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 1:29 PM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 1:24:56 PM

Quote :

"Insiders tell me that the Man in Black did have a name in the script, but the Powers that Be decided not to spill it. It was Samuel."

http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/05/mibs-name-revealed.html

5/24/2010 1:34:29 PM

Quote :

"But let me reiterate that what you thought of the ending has NOTHING whatsoever to do with your IQ"

No shit. Point was, I pesonally did not need some mindless, happily-ever-after, feel good bullshit gratification moment. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it. I wanted more REAL LIFE ISLAND resolution and less fake pre-afterlife party melodrama.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 1:53 PM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 1:39:00 PM

I don't watch this show, but reading the last few posts, and given the frequency of characters who are saying things like "it's possible" and "uh... yeah, could be" tells me that the show's writers probably never really had any continuous plan and have just been making up shit that sounds good at the time.

But whatever, enjoy your drama/mystery/tangentially-connected-orgy-of-ideas.

5/24/2010 1:40:56 PM

I didn't read your post but I bet it sucked

5/24/2010 1:46:17 PM

if you don't watch the show, you can't comment on its quality.

5/24/2010 1:47:33 PM

I never watched the show, but I'm totally qualified to criticize it, lol.

5/24/2010 1:51:36 PM

Quote :

"I could have done without the gratification of seeing everyone meet up and live in the after life happily ever after, but then again I have an emotional and intellectual quotient of greater than 85"

Me on the other hand? Bawled like a baby

5/24/2010 1:52:44 PM

The pre-death stuff WAS real-life island resolution, ultimately. It gave purpose to everything that happened IN REAL LIFE, on the island. What did you want, them all to go home and live happily ever after that way?

5/24/2010 1:56:24 PM

I did watch the show and agree with tromboner's assessment.

5/24/2010 1:57:06 PM

Quote :

"I never watched the show, but I'm totally qualified to criticize it, lol."

Yet if you did watch it and criticize it, you should shut the fuck up and write a better show? amirite?

5/24/2010 2:02:03 PM

i've spent a decent amount of time (although i've barely cracked the surface) thinking about the finale and its implications on LOST as a series, and every single thought just adds more and more to my opinion that this was, despite all of its flaws, an absolutely wonderful show from start to finish.

there are basically two schools of thought after last night. one is that the show is complete and utter shit and that the writers never had any idea what they were doing and ended up putting together a huge cop out for everything they failed to address in the form of season 6 and the alternate timeline. the other is that, despite the fact that LOST has so many flaws as [user]bobby digital[/user] said, the writers accomplished more than we could possibly imagine with what they decided to show us throughout the course of the series.

obviously my opinion is in line with the latter given what i just said and am about to say in the rest of this post. looking at this show as a colossal failure is so horribly short sighted though. LOST is absolutely, positively not perfect in any way, and the writers, whether intentionally or not, failed to follow established protocol for story telling and frequently left us wanting more than what we were given. am i satisfied with everything? no. are there aspects of the show that i wish had been resolved? absolutely. but as someone else mentioned, it's important to try to see the forest for the trees with this show.

for all of you who have been bashing LOST and the writers for failing to adhere to the traditional methods of narrative and plot progression, i think the scene last night where hurley implied to ben that he was going to do things differently than jacob as the new leader of the island perfectly captures the nature of this show, whether it was intended to be that way from the start or not (probably not). yes, these people wrote themselves into a corner in many aspects and will always be criticized for doing so, but to me its just in line with the nature of the show in the way that it pushed the boundaries of traditional network television. this is a show that never should've been the phenomenon that it was considering the content and the direction that it took, yet it continued to fascinate people around the world, partly because of the narrative and suspense, but mostly (in my opinion) because of the way the lives of these characters unfolded through their experiences on the island, their lives and who they were before coming to the island, and their interactions with each other. the writers had every right in the world to throw the rules out the window.

LOST as a series mirrors the nature of its strongest suit, which is its characters. we didn't need jacob to tell us in the second to last episode that he chose all of his candidates because they were flawed. we've known since season 1 that every single person that survived the crash of 815 was horribly broken and had to find ways to live and work together in order to redeem and repair themselves to find closure. this is exactly what happened at the end of this show.

you can say this show was really starting to lose its way around season 3 and never found its groove again after that, but by the end they had effectively recaptured the essence of this show that made it special in seasons 1 and 2, which is its characters (surprise). after watching LOST as much as i did over the last few years, i started thinking and talking about these characters as if they were real because their stories and personalities were portrayed so well in their experiences on and off the island. i know i'm not the only person affected by the show in this way, and for that reason LOST is a huge success. if you can't look past all the plot details that weren't wrapped up in a nice little package, i'd encourage you to watch the show over again with a different outlook.

if you rip on this show because the writers didn't follow the typical story telling formula that somehow became gospel is like saying everything that happens in life is bullshit too because there are so many questions that don't have answers. why are we here? what happens when we die? what happened before there was anything in the universe? how do some girls end up being so hot? what is the smoke monster? who gives a shit. you're wasting your time asking yourself the wrong questions. what LOST is all about, and what you could argue life is about, is what you do with the time you have, whether you can change who you are and fix your mistakes, and probably most importantly, the relationships you form while you are here and the lives you affect that in turn affect you as well.

as i've said, and will continue to say for years any time i discuss this show, LOST is in no way perfect and has a ton of flaws, but so do i, and so does everyone else. i'm not trying to say it's the best show of all time, but it certainly is my favorite.

5/24/2010 2:02:49 PM

PLUS, Jack killed Locke/the MiB and it remains a possibility that by putting that stone back in place and restoring the light to the island, Jack prevented hell from breaking loose and saved the world. Shouldn't THAT count as "real life, on-island resolution?"

5/24/2010 2:05:06 PM

Im going to go with he corked the opening to the rainbow unicorn stables that are under the island. Thus jack was evil and the MiB/Locke just wanted all the girls around the world to get a unicorn to ride around on.

Why dont we go with that as a 'real world' resolution?

5/24/2010 2:10:11 PM

^Did you even watch this show or even this season? And if so, did you pay any attention?

5/24/2010 2:12:42 PM

Lokken, they clearly laid out exactly what would happen if MiB had just ignored bonked-in-the-head Jack and swam to the boat. The world would umm, everyone you know would die or something. Except in the end of the show everyone died anyway, so yeah.

5/24/2010 2:13:33 PM

Quote :

"Except in the end of the show everyone died anyway"

Just like in every show, really -- and life. Everyone dies.

5/24/2010 2:16:40 PM

Quote :

"Did you even watch this show or even this season? And if so, did you pay any attention?"

Ok I admit my post was a slight troll. But it was just to point out that you could make the case for a wide variety of 'real world' resolutions, since everything was just kind of dropped.

I have watched the entire series within the past few months, catching up to be able to watch this final season. I think if you do that, you can see more clearly just how off track this show became after the third season, regrettably so this season.

5/24/2010 2:18:01 PM

I checked in and out of watching this show over the years... Watched last night though.

Is the basic idea of it something like :

What happened on the island was real life

What happened in flashbacks was a type of purgatory or manufactured alternate life which made sure that when they all eventually died(at various times throughout the real time line) they would end up at that church together, say their peace and move on to heaven?

5/24/2010 2:19:24 PM

Yes, but not all flashbacks. Only the flash-sideways this season.

5/24/2010 2:20:22 PM

Quote :

"The pre-death stuff WAS real-life island resolution, ultimately. It gave purpose to everything that happened IN REAL LIFE, on the island. What did you want, them all to go home and live happily ever after that way?"

To me it's entirely the opposite. The island stuff gave meaning to the sideways world, which was just invented a few months ago out of nowhere. The ending we got made the actual events on the island, all the nuances we've been following for years, utterly meaningless to me. Any group of people in any other set of cirumstances could have come together and grown close to one another and ultimately needed the sideways world to "let go." it could have been surviving a plane crash on an island or doing Outward Bound together. Ultimately, all the mysteries of the island that he writers used as carrots to lead us along were abandoned and meant nothing.

I'm not saying that I was hoping for 2.5 hours of explaining mysterious supply drops or lectures on electromagnatism or that that would have been satisyfing. But IN THE REAL WORLD, the worl we've been watching for 6 seasons, ultimately Jack dies and Hurley takes over gaurdian of the island for an indefinite amount of time? That's it? thanks for wrapping that up!

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 2:49 PM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 2:37:40 PM

Quote :

"Just like in every show, really -- and life. Everyone dies."

And that's my point really: shitty ending. Instead of ending the story (island) in a conclusive manner, they just fast-forwarded an arbitrary number of years when everyone was dead. How can anyone like this ending?

My problem is that the overall plot lacked resolution. Jack killing MiB, that's the climax. What comes after is resolution, and there was 2 minutes of island (which still doesn't make much sense) and then unworld where you're just supposed to forget that they didn't really resolve the island or any of the people that made it off. What of Aaron, or Sun and Jin's kid? Children from the island were a big fucking deal in the plot of the series and they just wrote it away with their goofy church scene. What of Kate, Claire, Alpert?

Not only that, but they eluded to you that "something" happened with the banter between Ben and Hurley. They replaced actual resolution with 2 lines between actors that had previously had next to no interaction. None of the people had flashbacks of anything that happened not during the time on the island. It smacks of thrown-together-at-the-last-second.

I'm not really that surprised that people are defending this pile.

5/24/2010 2:46:26 PM

Look guys, the only thing that matters now, is how many awesome photoshopped gifs we get out of this scene.



The first challenger:

5/24/2010 3:01:20 PM

so what happened at the end? did Tom Hanks and Wilson ever deliver that Fedex package?

5/24/2010 3:02:24 PM