Quote :

"Instead of ending the story (island) in a conclusive manner, they just fast-forwarded an arbitrary number of years when everyone was dead. How can anyone like this ending?"

Why end it conclusively? The island probably existed for a very long time after Jack died, even after Hurley died. Why run the show into the ground?

Quote :

"What of Aaron, or Sun and Jin's kid?"

Who cares? They weren't special, they were just people.

Quote :

"Children from the island were a big fucking deal in the plot of the series and they just wrote it away with their goofy church scene. "

They were a big deal to the Others, only because women couldn't give birth on the island. Aaron and the Kwon baby weren't superkids.

Quote :

"What of Kate, Claire, Alpert?"

They probably went home and lived lives as normal as was possible. I don't see the need to have every single detail explained.

5/24/2010 3:55:30 PM

So when you die, you take the form of whatever you were on the island?

Assume Hurley, Sawyer, Miles, Desmond, Penny, Kate, Ben all grew old and died but take the form of their younger selves in the unworld. Yet Christian Shephard Eloise and Charles Widmore are old. Rose & Bernard are old. Kinda makes you think.

Also makes you think if the writers put half the thought into this show as the fans do.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 4:19 PM. Reason : p]

5/24/2010 4:03:36 PM

Quote :

"So when you die, you take the form of whatever you were on the island? Assume Hurley, Sawyer, Miles, Desmond, Penny, Kate, Ben all grew old and died but take the form of their younger selves in the unworld. Yet Christian Shephard Eloise and Charles Widmore are old. Rose & Bernard are old. Kinda makes you think."

i think you might be reading too far into it, but you could probably just say they took on the appearances from when they all started influencing each other's lives.

5/24/2010 4:09:59 PM

http://lost-and-gone-forever.blogspot.com/

just updated with analysis on the major questions. I agree with most of what the guy stated.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 4:14 PM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 4:11:54 PM

^^yeah, I think that's what they were alluding to when Christian said, "the most important time in your life was your time with these people," meaning that they were manifested in the form in which they experienced this "most important time." I also agree that some folks may be reading too much into it, I mean Christian said, "there is no now here," which leads me to believe that age is rather irrelevant too.

Also, everyone who is saying that the events on the island didn't really matter, but let's not forget that Jack arguably died saving the world. Sure we didn't get details, but we were led to believe that this island contained the very essense of life and humanity and that it's been/being guarded not by an omnipotent, omnipresent diety, but rather by a fallible human. The more time I'm removed from the finale, the more I like it.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 4:22 PM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 4:18:51 PM

Quote :

"They were a big deal to the Others, only because women couldn't give birth on the island. Aaron and the Kwon baby weren't superkids."

They had a submarine and it was clearly used often. They could easily get children from the mainland, or travel there to give birth. Jacob was also capable of raising/acquiring children from the mainland, without subjecting them to 6 seasons of tribulation.

I'm only pointing this out because the whole birth/children issue turned out to be arbitrary mystery nonsense. That, and the fact that the "Others" whole attitude and behavior towards the survivors was completely contrary to their goals. Had they embraced the survivors instead of antagonizing them, they would have gotten what they, and Jacob, wanted without getting massacred. Granted, this doesn't make for a compelling TV show plot; but if you have to throw out common sense for your plot to work, then your plot sucks. Thats my biggest issue.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 4:25 PM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 4:22:19 PM

ok, after marinating overnight and thinking about it today, i'm not quite as pissed off about the ending. I've found myself now formulating ideas about possible Hugo/Ben adventures on the island.

5/24/2010 4:24:17 PM

Quote :

"Granted, this doesn't make for a compelling TV show plot; but if you have to throw out common sense for your plot to work, then your plot sucks."

yes, let's take this approach to every single work of fiction ever and see what we have left.

5/24/2010 4:25:34 PM

Shits weak JJ Abrams

5/24/2010 4:25:54 PM

Quote :

"They had a submarine and it was clearly used often. They could easily get children from the mainland, or travel there to give birth. Jacob was also capable of raising/acquiring children from the mainland, without subjecting them to 6 seasons of tribulation. I'm only pointing this out because the whole birth/children issue turned out to be arbitrary mystery nonsense. That, and the fact that the "Others" whole attitude and behavior towards the survivors was completely contrary to their goals. Had they embraced the survivors instead of antagonizing them, they would have gotten what they, and Jacob, wanted without getting massacred. Granted, this doesn't make for a compelling TV show plot; but if you have to throw out common sense for your plot to work, then your plot sucks. Thats my biggest issue."

Maybe they had tried to snag kids before and failed, who knows. But they lived on a magic island and worshiped a guy who lived in a foot -- they probably took a pregnant lady falling from the sky as being fairly significant.

As far as their attitudes towards the survivors, I think a lot of that was Ben being an idiot and not know what to do. None of that came from Jacob, he left people to their own fate, remember.

5/24/2010 4:33:10 PM

Quote :

"Shits weak JJ Abrams"

yeah, blame the guy that hasn't had a direct hand in anything in over 5 years

5/24/2010 4:47:43 PM

SHIT WAS AWFUL.

5/24/2010 4:57:58 PM

^^^We've seen the power/connections they've gathered on the main-land. We've seen them study children from afar. Adoption can't be difficult. The other possibility is ridiculous: the Others are all ship-wrecked children.

The "Others" were antagonizing people long before Ben. Why would Jacob create these followers, only for them to, effectively, work against him?

In any case, I'm not saying that there couldn't be some twisted, hidden reasoning for their incredibly odd behavior. I'm saying there needed to be more hints.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 5:05 PM. Reason : ^^^]

5/24/2010 5:04:56 PM

Okay, maybe some of the Others were snatched from off-island. That's perfectly believable. But still, knowing that women can't give birth on the island, of course they're gonna freak the fuck out when a pregnant lady and some children land in their backyard. Doesn't mean that these kids were special in any way. Except Walt; he obviously was and the writers botched that completely.

Quote :

"Why would Jacob create these followers, only for them to, effectively, work against him?"

That was pretty much the way he operated, or at least how he explained it to the viewer.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 5:13 PM. Reason : ]

5/24/2010 5:11:39 PM

Quote :

"None of that came from Jacob, he left people to their own fate, remember."

are you kidding?

5/24/2010 5:11:54 PM

are you kidding?

5/24/2010 5:12:36 PM

considering he brought them all to the island in the first place, i find it hard for someone to honestly characterize Jacob's involvement in anyone's lives on the island as seemingly hands off. nothing from the point that they landed on the island onward had anything to do with "fate." it was all his doing. but awesome retort.


[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 5:21 PM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 5:16:51 PM

Quote :

"RICHARD: But if you brought them here. Why didn't you help them? JACOB: Because I wanted them to help themselves. To know the difference between right and wrong without me having to tell them. It's all meaningless if I have to force them to do anything. Why should I have to step in? "

5/24/2010 5:24:18 PM

Quote :

"I don't watch this show, but reading the last few posts, and given the frequency of characters who are saying things like "it's possible" and "uh... yeah, could be" tells me that the show's writers probably never really had any continuous plan and have just been making up shit that sounds good at the time."

If youre going for an ending thats semi-ambiguous like they did, wouldnt it defeat the purpose if 30 minutes later your lead actor is confirming and denying different theories?

Quote :

"Assume Hurley, Sawyer, Miles, Desmond, Penny, Kate, Ben all grew old and died but take the form of their younger selves in the unworld. Yet Christian Shephard Eloise and Charles Widmore are old. Rose & Bernard are old. Kinda makes you think. "

It was for the audiences benefit...make the characters recognizable rather than old and wrinkled. Putting some of them in makeup would just make the scene at the end terrible. Seriously, this is a stupid thing to nitpick on.

Quote :

"None of the people had flashbacks of anything that happened not during the time on the island. It smacks of thrown-together-at-the-last-second."

Same with this...if they had showed Kate, Sawyer, etcs life after the island in those flashbacks, then people would be bitching about how there were even more questions raised (in regards to what was going on in those flashbacks). The most important part of these peoples lives was on the island...why would we see anything else?

5/24/2010 5:25:08 PM

Quote :

"RICHARD: But if you brought them here. Why didn't you help them? JACOB: Because I wanted them to help themselves. To know the difference between right and wrong without me having to tell them. It's all meaningless if I have to force them to do anything. Why should I have to step in?"

that's all well and good, and to avoid having a lengthy free will vs. fate discussion we'll just agree to disagree.

5/24/2010 5:31:18 PM

That ratsoup post is so offensive.

Quote :

" but mostly (in my opinion) because of the way the lives of these characters unfolded through their experiences on the island, their lives and who they were before coming to the island, and their interactions with each other"

bull fucking shit. sureishe character development was great but of course it was. we had 3 freaking seasons to learn about the characters. take out the smoke monster, numbers and mystery of the others and the show would have been canceled by season 4. Take out the widmore "game" with ben it wouldn't have made it past season 4. The characters were great but the writers USED mysteries to get people to watch and then left them high and dry lastnight.

Quote :

" is like saying everything that happens in life is bullshit too because there are so many questions that don't have answers. "

THATS WHY ITS A TV SHOW it shouldnt play out the same way as life. life is boring. this was allegedly a sci fi fantasy show. it ended up being a bogus drama. i should have just watched greys anatomy if i wanted to meet characters and see who they slept with.

5/24/2010 6:13:53 PM

^ i knew as soon as i saw you were the last person to respond to this thread that you were gonna go after my post. thanks. that was sweet of you . i'm glad i was able to offend you as well.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 6:17 PM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 6:16:37 PM

don't address her points

5/24/2010 6:53:09 PM

Let me rephrase that. Shit's weak:

Damon Lindelof
Carlton Cuse
Edward Kitsis
Adam Horowitz
Elizabeth Sarnoff
and others

5/24/2010 7:11:27 PM

was ilana in the finale? i coulda sworn i saw the actress' name in the opening credits.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 8:03 PM. Reason : .]

5/24/2010 7:38:28 PM

If you watched The Wire and read/enjoyed Alan Sepinwall's commentary on it, here's his take on Lost:

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/lost-the-end-see-you-in-the-other-life-brother

5/24/2010 7:41:59 PM

Quote :

"Ok I admit my post was a slight troll. But it was just to point out that you could make the case for a wide variety of 'real world' resolutions, since everything was just kind of dropped."

We were told that if the light goes out, the light in every man goes out. Jack prevented that by plugging it again with the special stone plug. Jack then died from his wounds. But not before just seeing that Sawyer, Kate, etc. got off of the island in the plane. He also knew that Hurley and anyone else left on the island was safe for the time being since he had plugged the hole.

Quote :

"My problem is that the overall plot lacked resolution. Jack killing MiB, that's the climax. What comes after is resolution, and there was 2 minutes of island (which still doesn't make much sense) and then unworld where you're just supposed to forget that they didn't really resolve the island or any of the people that made it off. What of Aaron, or Sun and Jin's kid? Children from the island were a big fucking deal in the plot of the series and they just wrote it away with their goofy church scene. What of Kate, Claire, Alpert?"

Aaron is with whoever Kate left him with Claire's mother, his blood relation. Sun and Jin's kid is with their grandmother. Kate, Claire, etc. went on to live whatever lives they had. They did not address the "can't have children" thin any further. But they did address the other stuff you're talking about.

Quote :

"Not only that, but they eluded to you that "something" happened with the banter between Ben and Hurley. They replaced actual resolution with 2 lines between actors that had previously had next to no interaction. None of the people had flashbacks of anything that happened not during the time on the island. It smacks of thrown-together-at-the-last-second."

that "something" is that they protected the island. The time off the time after the island was not important in regard to the show, or the "place" they created before moving on. As Christian said, it was about the people from the most important time of their life. I dont' see how that "smacks of thrown-together-at-the-last-second" at all. I don't it means the opposite, that they knew since day one. But I really don't see how that in any way is evidence of it being thrown together at last minute.

Quote :

"So when you die, you take the form of whatever you were on the island?"

A) they looked like the character we knew.
B) they looked the way each of them knew each other. Jack didn't know Kate as an old woman. However, he knew Rose and Bernard when they were middle-aged, or a little more.

Quote :

"Except Walt; he obviously was and the writers botched that completely."

Quote :

"It was for the audiences benefit...make the characters recognizable rather than old and wrinkled. Putting some of them in makeup would just make the scene at the end terrible. Seriously, this is a stupid thing to nitpick on. "

I think the writers did kind of botch Walt. But at the same time, I think it's simple to fold him into the narrative. Walt was our first introduction to magical realism/sci fi/whatever you want to call it in the show. His powers opened up our ability to accept much more fantastical stuff. Maybe they had a greater plan for him initially and just failed at realizing that. But I think it still works in the narrative.

And as for him not being there at the end; maybe those simply weren't the most important times/people in his life.


For those who feel there was no "real-world" resolution in regard to the island or whatever; What questions/things do you want answers to? I feel like there's a lot of "they didn't answer anything?" But only a few examples of what they didn't answer. And to be honest, the few examples I've seen, they did answer, you're just not happy with the answer or can easily be seen as not being important to the overall story. So, maybe I'm just really missing something. Please say what specifically they did not answer. what they didn't answer that leaves gaping holes in the plot. and what they didn't answer that you'd just like to know.

And what sort of answers would suffice? an example would be ideal. I mean, do you want an explanation for what exactly smokey is? Would Midichlorians suffice? - for those who don't know the reference, that's how they explained "the force" in the star wars prequel instead of simply leaving it as "the force." I personally (and many others) find it to be pretty stupid and retarded. I liked it a lot better when it was simply "The Force"... a mystery/faith thing.

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 8:45 PM. Reason : reference]

5/24/2010 8:40:41 PM

SHIT'S WIZZEAAAAK

5/24/2010 9:42:58 PM

somebody post that old lost picture that charlie drew with the plane and everyone stuck in the fog

for old times sake

5/24/2010 11:54:53 PM

Quote :

"bull fucking shit. sureishe character development was great but of course it was. we had 3 freaking seasons to learn about the characters. take out the smoke monster, numbers and mystery of the others and the show would have been canceled by season 4. Take out the widmore "game" with ben it wouldn't have made it past season 4. The characters were great but the writers USED mysteries to get people to watch and then left them high and dry lastnight. "

I think I read somewhere that when Lindelof and Cuse came to JJ Abrams to pitch the show and it was all about the characters, he said something to the effect of "make it about the mysteries of the island" and mix in the character interactions. And that's exactly what they did. That's the reason the show lasted six seasons.

This show has been about the characters from the beginning and the island mystery stuff was just to keep the viewer hooked so the writers could tell the characters' story. I like how the show did not hit the viewer over the head with "answers" and left the show and its events open to interpretation. It was a "smart" show from the beginning and was intended to get the viewer to think and interpret certain things about the show. This is a huge reason why the show was as big and successful as it was in terms of discussion and theorizing on the internet and around the watercooler. If you want a show to hold your hand through everything, then watch something else.

5/24/2010 11:56:12 PM

Quote :

"I think I read somewhere"

i know someone posted it in this thread a few pages back

Quote :

" If you want a show to hold your hand through everything, then watch something else."

you're forgetting she's incapable of abstract thought.

5/25/2010 12:06:51 AM

Haha. I'm glad I had no interest in watching this show after seeing the pilot.

NO PUN INTENDED.

5/25/2010 12:13:58 AM

^ thanks for coming in here to post that

5/25/2010 12:17:39 AM

didn't read everyone's comments

thought it was shitty

5/25/2010 2:16:39 AM

I liked the first 2 seasons of Lost a lot. All of the mystery and suspense, every new episode seemed to introduce a new piece to the puzzle, and everyone loved guessing and talking about what was happening with the numbers/others/smoke/polar bears ect. That was back when I assumed there was some concrete scientific explanation that would tie all the mystery together to make some sort of sense, tons of fans posted good "Lost Theories" that were able to tie everything together.

It seems that people either really liked or really hated the finale.I think it sucked ass. If you would have told me during season 1 or 2 that the entire island was powered by some Legends of the Hidden Temple style golden jacuzzi and the finale ended with everyone making out in some purgatory church I would have stopped watching then.

I guess the people that liked it are content with emotional violen music and a bunch of hugging/kissing with a golden camera filter effect. Don't get me wrong, its great everyone is holding hands in heaven, but I expected more from the series finale, the entire season was hyped up as "answering everything".

Quote :

" I like how the show did not hit the viewer over the head with "answers" and left the show and its events open to interpretation. If you want a show to hold your hand through everything, then watch something else."

Thats bullshit. Abstract "art" aka blobs of paint on paper is "open to interpretation". This is a 6 season television series based on mystery. Not addressing any of the huge mysteries is lazy writing.

5/25/2010 3:53:17 AM

Quote :

"^ thanks for coming in here to post that"

No problem.

How dare I post a message on a message board.

5/25/2010 4:59:47 AM

Quote :

"If you watched The Wire and read/enjoyed Alan Sepinwall's commentary on it, here's his take on Lost: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/lost-the-end-see-you-in-the-other-life-brother"

Reading this made me hate the finale a lot less (well that, and a full day to think about things) It's the first "professional" review that I've seen that isn't just sickening sweet and rosy. It actually had a lot of intelligent, fairly harsh things to say without just bashing it but it also had lots of good things to say that were probably easy to miss for some people that didn't care for the finale.

5/25/2010 5:08:21 AM

OK.. so. I'm not gonna wade through the last few pages because I haven't seen anything on this one that makes me think people interpreted it the way I did.

1) Everyone died on the initial plane crash. I'd already assumed that, but the last scene showing the plane blown to smithereens pretty much confirms that this was the premise they were going for.

2) The main characters had problems in their previous lives. Assume the island is purgatory or something similar, and they were given a chance to atone for their previous mistakes or at least make a decent lives for themselves before being judged.

3) The show is about the characters.. not the island. The trials they were put through, the time travelling, they were all just tests.

4) The alternate timeline is the afterlife. They need to realise that, and embrace it before they're allowed to let go of the island and move on. And by moving on, I mean living this new (after)life with the people they're supposed to be with.
-Imagine that there is one special someone out there for you, and you never met them. These people were given a chance to do that so they could spend the rest of their afterlife with that person.

5) Life can't be created on the island. People that come to the island are already dead, and their babies exist on the island because they died along with their mothers.

This is my interpretation of some of the things you guys seem to be arguing about. Sorry if this stuff has already been addressed, but like I said I haven't read through everything. Might try and get caught up tomorrow

5/25/2010 5:10:53 AM

No.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 6:44 AM. Reason : Just...from top to bottom, start to finish, every fucking word...NO.]

5/25/2010 6:44:07 AM

^^ That is the worst fucking post I have seen yet in this thread. Did you even watch the show? There's no possible way to infer that they all died on the initial crash

5/25/2010 7:02:34 AM

It's like people weren't paying attention to what Christian said at the end. He literally said "all those people are real, everything that happened to you was real".

5/25/2010 7:11:46 AM

Or any of the other dialogue throughout the entire fucking show


I mean, I guess I just never realized that some people just like to watch the pretty pictures on the muted tee-vee and imagine the accompanying dialogue in their own heads

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 7:27 AM. Reason : s]

5/25/2010 7:26:48 AM

i like to think Kate and Claire became lesbian lovers back in the real world.

5/25/2010 7:42:17 AM

hahahah toemoss's post is probably how they should have done it.

5/25/2010 8:17:05 AM

Quote :

" like to think Kate and Claire became lesbian lovers back in the real world. "

hells yeah! Also add in Juliet, hot damn!!

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 8:18 AM. Reason : your mom is fat lol]

5/25/2010 8:17:53 AM

lol poor toemoss





this thread gives me a headache, i may have to bow out for the final time.

5/25/2010 8:21:40 AM

Quote :

"Don't get me wrong, its great everyone is holding hands in heaven"

that's not what happened

Quote :

"the entire season was hyped up as "answering everything"."

i was kind of bothered by this too towards the end of season 6, but the blame lies with ABC's staff for that, not the show's. darlton even said before the season started that there would be a bunch of things that wouldn't be answered.

Quote :

"This is a 6 season television series based on mystery."

congratulations. you didn't get it.

5/25/2010 8:43:14 AM

i also thought this was pretty cool from that Wired article from a few pages back

Quote :

"Wired: Do you still see that as the central issue, man of faith versus man of science? Lindelof: The paradigm has shifted from that to, were we brought here for a very specific reason, and what is that reason? Locke is now the voice of a very large subset of the audience who believes that when Lost is all said and done, we will have wasted six years of our lives, that we were making it up as we went along, and that there’s really no purpose. And Jack is now saying, “the only thing I have left to cling to is that there’s got to be something really cool that’s going to happen, because I have really, really fucking suffered.” "

5/25/2010 9:14:00 AM

HEY GUISE MY THEORY IS THAT THE ISLAND WAS PURGATORY!

5/25/2010 9:30:09 AM

Ok here is another theory. The show began and ended wit the exact same shot of jacks eye (even down to the same injury around his eye). He died in the original plane cras and the entire story of lost was a story of his internal conflict resolution. The characters represented the most important parts of Jack. Before Jack could let go he he had to resolve his internal conflictswith himself. Ther are all kinds of details which hint at this but I don't have the patience to type them in on this crap keyboard.

5/25/2010 10:12:27 AM