With banelings, there's no such thing as overkill.

Roll 'em if you got 'em.

8/25/2011 8:21:03 AM

haha, blue flame got nerf'd. i wonder who didn't see that coming.

8/25/2011 10:23:45 AM

Patch seems decent. I've already been making a lot more Ultras lately so that change will help.

The BF was an obvious one.

I actually think the WP change and immortal change are pretty big. I think it will give Toss a lot more options for drop play, I'm already envisioning fast immortal/stalker drops with supporting warp ins that could be a pain. Also guessing you'll see more Toss players using WP instead of proxy pylons which I always though made sense anyway because it is easier to keep a WP alive, move it with your army than trying to keep a probe and stationary pylon alive.

Would have loved to see a change to the Hydra or the time/cost of lair tech.

8/25/2011 1:01:44 PM

one of the big reasons that warp prisms aren't used is that it's a big investment to get the robo if you're doing some kind of 4/6 gate play (where the proxy pylon is most effective). while it can be used really effectively, it's not as efficient which usually means you end up doing a shitty 4/6 gate unless you're White-Ra/HuK

8/25/2011 10:52:16 PM

i'd say they were less used because they are so easy to snipe off. a couple of marines could make short work of one if the player misclicked the WP just once.

8/26/2011 3:16:39 AM

With the range upgrade to the immortal it makes it makes that unit much better and much easier to invest in that tech especially if you aren't having to go colossi.

Now with every unit you can produce from the robotics being really good and useful it makes it tough to not fit a robo into a build somehow.

8/26/2011 7:34:06 AM

^Yea, they're not trying to get in front of the stalkers now.

I off-raced as protoss in a random 4v4 last night. Had the best score at the end! However, I was never attacked, sooooo....it doesn't really reflect on what was going on.

8/26/2011 8:25:04 AM

At MLG now. Pm me if you wanna meet up.

8/26/2011 4:46:23 PM

I'm thinking about going later. Do they have tickets at the door?

8/27/2011 12:24:42 PM

looks like idra is being a little bitch again...didn't show for his last placement match.

8/28/2011 1:25:02 PM

It was a consolation match. It didn't matter -- Tyler and Drewbie didn't show up for their matches either, IIRC

8/28/2011 1:29:31 PM

^^ yeah pretty much not the case at all.

many consolation matches were no shows

[Edited on August 28, 2011 at 1:41 PM. Reason : *]

8/28/2011 1:40:56 PM

I have an extra spectator pass. If you someone wants it pm me. I'll check my pm every few minutes for an hour or so.

8/28/2011 1:41:47 PM

i wish they'd start casting again...they've been on break for almost an hour. i can SEE huk playing in the webcam.

8/28/2011 1:59:22 PM

I was there all day saturday. you dont get near as much coverage being there as you do watching the stream.

plus watching the stream i have a comfy chair.

8/28/2011 2:02:36 PM

Yeah, I enjoy going, but at the same time, you do get better coverage not going. It's a little weird.

8/28/2011 2:12:05 PM

they haven't covered SHIT in over an hour

8/28/2011 2:19:15 PM

i'm really disappointed in Idra's play in this MLG. I was kinda rooting for him, but he looked awful in the games I watched him play.

8/28/2011 10:14:13 PM

Idra


HuK


INcontrol


TLO


HuskyStarcraft


Tastless, Artosis, and JP McDaniel

Check out this handsome nerd baller.-Tastless when I walked up to him for a picture

[Edited on August 28, 2011 at 10:56 PM. Reason : -]

8/28/2011 10:37:57 PM

^Thanks for the pass, ALkatraz. Cool pictars.

8/28/2011 10:46:08 PM

Its been a while since ive not been disappointed with IdrAs play

8/28/2011 10:46:48 PM

^^No prob dude. I got the free one from Katie with MLG. Since I hosted the Raleigh barcraft at Ruckus, she contacted me about the free spectator pass. I had already purchased one before that so that's how I got the spare. I hope your friend had a good time!

8/28/2011 10:54:54 PM

I got a chance to talk to Pain User on Friday. talking to him was just like listening to a broadcast of the IPL, haha

8/29/2011 1:09:27 AM

Thanks to [user]titan78[/user]'s advice I've started using hydra drops against forge first FE toss. It works wonders. So far I've used it twice to great success - one time I got my natural down without any cannons so I just dropped 12 or so hydras, the second time I wasn't able to get my natural down (he built 3 cannons behind the line and I faked pressure so they would finish), so I just made a bunch of slow lings instead and dropped 20 slow lings + 8 hydras... managed to get there just in time to snipe the cybercore before warpgate finished, pretty much auto GG.

Toss are too greedy these days with their FE's, this is a great way to punish them. I've been going 13 pool 14 gas, it lets me get a quick queen out to start injections, then a fast lair (skipping speed).

9/1/2011 11:31:50 AM

Yeah works great.

You know for team games, we should try one of us going speed lings and feeding gas to the other to go fast hydra drops. I bet that would work vs. PP and TP. Need to give it a shot, could probably get pretty quick 12 hydras off one base with drop with a gas feed.

9/1/2011 1:04:37 PM

Hydra drops, eh? Sounds legit. Do you get overlords to spew creep to gain some additional speed at his base too?

I've been off racing in team games as protoss with great success lately.

[Edited on September 1, 2011 at 1:33 PM. Reason : -]

9/1/2011 1:33:27 PM

Yeah once you drop the hydras start dropping creep and spreading the ols.

I'll often drop 2 queens as well to use for healing and dropping creep tumors since you end up with some extra minerals so might as well make queens.

Here is the build optimizer on the fastest 12 hydra w/ range upgrade drop. Hits at the 8 min mark. Obviously this doesn't account for any static defense or harass, but you won't see that anyway if they FFE.

10 Overlord
10 Extractor Trick
14 Extractor
13 Hatchery
12 Move Drone To Gas
12 Move Drone To Gas
12 Move Drone To Gas
18 Spawning Pool
17 Extractor
18 Move Drone To Gas
18 Move Drone To Gas
18 Move Drone To Gas
18 Overlord
23 Lair
28 Extractor
28 Overlord
28 Overlord
28 Overlord
28 Move Drone To Gas
28 Move Drone To Gas
28 Move Drone To Gas
29 Hydralisk Den
28 Pneumatic Carapace
28 Ventral Sacs
28 Hydralisk
30 Hydralisk
32 Hydralisk
34 Hydralisk
36 Hydralisk
38 Grooved Spines
38 Hydralisk
40 Hydralisk
42 Hydralisk
44 Hydralisk
46 Hydralisk
48 Hydralisk
50 Hydralisk

9/1/2011 1:44:54 PM

This one is actually better, because you have 2 queens when but you get the hydras 15 seconds later.

10 Extractor Trick
11 Overlord
12 Extractor
14 Move Drone To Gas
14 Spawning Pool
13 Move Drone To Gas
13 Move Drone To Gas
16 Overlord
16 Queen
22 Hatchery
21 Spawn Larvae
22 Lair
22 Extractor
25 Overlord
25 Move Drone To Gas
25 Move Drone To Gas
25 Spawn Larvae
25 Move Drone To Gas
28 Extractor
33 Move Drone To Gas
33 Move Drone To Gas
33 Move Drone To Gas
33 Ventral Sacs
35 Overlord
35 Overlord
35 Overlord
35 Spawn Larvae
35 Hydralisk Den
34 Queen
36 Hydralisk
38 Hydralisk
40 Hydralisk
42 Hydralisk
44 Hydralisk
46 Spawn Larvae
46 Spawn Larvae
46 Grooved Spines
46 Pneumatic Carapace
46 Spawn Larvae
46 Hydralisk
48 Hydralisk
50 Hydralisk
52 Hydralisk
54 Hydralisk
56 Spawn Larvae
56 Hydralisk
58 Hydralisk

9/1/2011 5:04:30 PM

Main problem with the first one is if you get scouted the toss will just lol and 4 gate you. You need at least the queens to keep probes out.

9/1/2011 6:11:53 PM

Good point. Maybe just a few lings. Or if you see a scout, start building a roach warren and cancel after he leaves.

9/1/2011 7:05:38 PM

Quote :

"Main problem with the first one is if you get scouted the toss will just lol and 4 gate you. You need at least the queens to keep probes out."

But you only do it when you see FFE. The opening looks basically the same as any normal zerg expand opening and is similar enough. So if you scout a 4 gate or no nexus being dropped down behind the FFE you don't do the build. It is easy enough to scout and know a FFE and a toss really can't put any pressure with that build. Plus if they do something where they cut probes and pressure quick after the FFE you'll have hydras out fast which will shut it down.

So overall pretty safe if you scout right. The queens are just better because you are setup for a longer game and it is less all-in. It just hits 15 seconds later which is fine for 2 more queens.

The first one though is really viable option for a 2v2 game, if you went defense/lings and I was hitting that 8 min hydra drop.

9/1/2011 7:15:31 PM

Or, you know, we all cheese as hard as possible.

9/2/2011 9:19:37 AM

I sucked last night because I just kept fucking around trying to take the gold and everyone we played was all serious and just rushing.

9/2/2011 9:24:32 AM

My ZvZ has been struggling lately (partly because I'm trying to use infestors and am terrible with them), but my ZvP is back on track.

Protoss get really pissed when you beat them with Muta/Ling

9/2/2011 10:04:29 AM

zvz is dumb anyway. If you can win 50% against similar matched opponents then you are prob doing fine.

I just +1 ling rush all my zvz mostly and be done with it.

9/2/2011 10:05:43 AM

So I have come to realize at the Masters level there are two types of terrans - one is a good player who just happens to play terran, these are the ones who are tough to beat (usually go mass marine tank with drops or mass mech). The others are bad players who happen to play terran, they go two rax every game vs zerg and follow up with big marine pushes with a few tanks. I absolutely love playing these terrans... I can't remember the last time I lost to a two rax. Just had an lol one on Shakuras where the guy tried to proxy his 2nd rax outside his base, my OV spotted it so I killed the scv building with a drone. By the time his first bunker finished right outside my nat I had two spines up.

9/4/2011 1:32:23 PM

I was super hammered when we played last night.

9/4/2011 8:37:37 PM

Lol

9/4/2011 11:04:45 PM

So I think I've perfect my protoss FE baneling bust. I've won like 5 in a row vs FE's. I go 13 hatch 15 pool, be sure and move your 2nd overlord over your natural so you can watch for probes for cannon rushes. It is critical you don't let yourself get cannon rushed or you are screwed. I immediately throw down two queens as soon as my hatch finishes and start getting gas from two geysers. Build the baneling nest somewhere along this point and get speed. I then drone to 32/36, build two overlords and start pumping slings.

Around the 44~ supply mark you will have 400~ minerals and 350~ gas, throw down another full round of slings, then build banelings when you are at like ~500/500. Scout it out - if he has two sentries try and hit a strong spot of his wall with your lings to force forcefields on them, allowing your banelings free reign. If you just walk up to the weak pylon/cannon with banelings you will get forcefielded out.

Once you get in his base try and immediately scout for stargates/dts. Take out the natural nexus and do as much damage as you can. In the even he manages to secure his main don't worry about it, just play defense and do a full round or two worth of drones before you start pumping units again, its over at that point.

9/7/2011 7:16:40 AM

Chances are something like that will only work at Diamond and above because at Platinum and lower FE means no fewer than 3 cannons

9/7/2011 8:55:00 AM

That shouldnt be an issue. You should have 12-15 blings, the bigger issue is sentries and forcefields being used properly.

9/7/2011 9:56:32 AM

Ah, ok -- didn't realize you had that many banelings.

9/7/2011 10:53:24 AM

some additional insight

9/7/2011 12:48:38 PM

Quote :

" no fewer than 3 cannons"

Then lol and expand if they have a ton of cannons. very extremely rarely are multiple early cannons worth it. one or two well placed cannons can keep a super early ling harass in check. once the baneling bust timings come up you need sentries and good control.

9/8/2011 5:38:26 PM

Yeah, Azaka gave me that advice a while back -- if they FE, just double expand.

That said, for a while there, I wasn't scouting properly and got my natural taken out by cannons, which was less than stellar.

9/9/2011 10:40:55 AM

http://twitter.com/#!/chuck_facts/status/112057670315425792

9/9/2011 11:01:02 AM

Whenever I see the forge fast expand it becomes like a decision of how long of a game I want to play because it is such an annoying build. More often then not I'm like I don't want to play a 30 minute game trying to kill a turtling protoss player going for a death ball I'll just all in.

So If I don't feel like playing a long game, I've found fast hydra dropping the main works great off 2 bases, or making like 8-10 roaches to pick off cannons/walls/sentires, and then just pumping lings into their base. Both builds are just all-ins where you cut drones around 30 or so and only get 1-2 gas and your expand. I prefer those options over the bling bust because with the bling bust you are hoping they suck at FF, and most FFE players at least decent ones are capable of FF. Plus it is easy to scout the bust, where the other builds you can hide the units and make it look like a normal build. The other options are less dependent on shitty force fields too. The hydra drop is really a fun build too and has a good success rate once you get the build and timing down.

The "correct" way to play against a fast expand protoss, is to take a super fast 3rd to stay 1 base ahead. Then your choices are either to deny their 3rd and hit a 3 base roach/ling(or hydra) timing before colossus are out, or just really settle in for a long macro game and go infestors with lings, ultras or broods. You just have to be ready for their 2 base timing, if you cut drones at the right time and start pumping units you can hold it off and be ahead.

Also the new thing everyone is going to start seeing a ton of from protoss which sucks as a zerg player are warp prism sentry drops in your main. You'll have to start keeping units in your main because they'll drop like 2 warp prisms and start warping in units, and the 4 sentries can FF your ramp forever. Then you can't get any units up and only reinforcements from your one main hatch. Then you just lose your main and they pick up and leave.

9/9/2011 2:36:42 PM

Any of you read the new patch notes?

Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored). Neural Parasite can no longer target Massive units.


Looks like the team is trying to make Destiny switch from zerg.

9/9/2011 3:06:29 PM

Damn, what a crappy change.

9/9/2011 3:15:43 PM

I know right.

9/9/2011 4:01:10 PM