Jack and MiB were able to kill one another because the plug was pulled from the magic light cave

Pretty simple

5/25/2010 5:03:51 PM

I was expecting Jack to turn into a smoke monster when he touched the light. Maybe he did, but stayed in his own body that was dying from before. The conditions weren't the exact same as the transition from MiB -> Smokey so I'm okay with it.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 5:06 PM. Reason : beaten]

5/25/2010 5:04:14 PM

Quote :

"Jack and MiB were able to kill one another because the plug was pulled from the magic light cave Pretty simple"

yeah, that's pretty much how i understood it. whatever happened when the cork was removed negated MiB's powers/obligation to the island's rules, but not jack's since he was still the island's protector. that would still be enough for them to kill each other.

Quote :

"theres no reason he should've died from a mib stab."

stab yourself in the gut and see how long it takes before you bleed out

5/25/2010 5:30:37 PM

Quote :

"im saying jackob for a reason. its jack after he was like jacob. theres no reason he should've died from a mib stab. That was the rule apparently. of course you assholes when come and defend this shitty writing by saying some bullshit like "the island was ready for him""

FWIW, I actually think Jackob is kinda funny. But, that's not the rule necessarily. The rule is that Jacob and MiB couldn't kill each other. We don't know for sure if that "rule" transitioned to Jack or not. Personally, I think it did and I think they could kill each other because the plug was out. It was immediately after the plug was out that Jack tackled MiB/Smokey and started hitting him and saw that he made him bleed. It was then after that, but before the plug was put back in place, that MiB stabbed Jack and Kate shot MiB.

5/25/2010 5:33:25 PM

Things are truly topsy turvey when a sentence like this...

Quote :

"Jack and MiB were able to kill one another because the plug was pulled from the magic light cave."

is followed by a statement like this.

Quote :

"Pretty simple."

5/25/2010 5:40:37 PM

Quote :

"The rule is that Jacob and MiB couldn't kill each other. We don't know for sure if that "rule" transitioned to Jack or not."

didn't jacob say in "what they died for" that by touching all of the candidates he marked them so they couldn't be killed by MiB? and before that MiB tried to funnel them all into the sub and get them to kill each other because he couldn't do it directly.

edit: i guess i'm also assuming that the safety touch thing would also transfer over when one of them became the protector. but judging from the bones in the light cave and the egyptian hieroglyphics depicting the smoke monster, i'd say that the whole process had been going on for thousands of years where there was always a protector keeping the smoke on the island. i think if it had been able to kill one of the previous protectors beforehand, it definitely would have.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 5:51 PM. Reason : .]

5/25/2010 5:48:18 PM

cosmic keystone trope.

5/25/2010 5:48:30 PM

^^ ahh yes. that's right. but that's a different rule than what she was talking about. I didn't think of that rule. So yeah, initially.. MiB could not kill jack because he was a candidate. He also could not kill Jacob. And I'm going to assume that he probably couldn't kill him once he was the protector either. That is until the magic plug/cork was pulled.

5/25/2010 6:02:34 PM

Unanswered questions are never OK.

I don't care if it's the nature of the show.

You can't raise issues of that kind and not resolve them.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 6:24 PM. Reason : .]

5/25/2010 6:23:29 PM

Quote :

"Things are truly topsy turvey when a sentence like this..."

Suspension of disbelief

This didn't happen in Apex

It happened on a magic island inside my TV

5/25/2010 6:29:15 PM

Quote :

"Unanswered questions are never OK. I don't care if it's the nature of the show. You can't raise issues of that kind and not resolve them."

as someone else posted earlier, if you hated this show after season 3 and continued to watch, you have no right to complain about anything.

you didn't watch this show past the pilot, so you have no right to say anything at all about it. you think anyone in this thread gives a flying fuck what someone thinks who never even took the time to watch it?

5/25/2010 6:54:06 PM

^^^ sucks for you. There are a lot of GREAT movies, books, etc. that you'll never be able to enjoy because you want a nice, clean laundry list of answers to everything.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 6:57 PM. Reason : too slow]

5/25/2010 6:55:02 PM

i don't know what type of programming these people have been watching outside of Lost

from the complaints they have following the finale i'm guessing saturday morning cartoons and infomercials

5/25/2010 6:59:26 PM

All I can say is that this book answered all the questions that it raised. Lost could learn a thing or two from its author.

5/25/2010 8:20:58 PM

Quote :

"as someone else posted earlier, if you hated this show after season 3 and continued to watch, you have no right to complain about anything. you didn't watch this show past the pilot, so you have no right to say anything at all about it. you think anyone in this thread gives a flying fuck what someone thinks who never even took the time to watch it?"

I'll say what I fucking want.

Ending any show with unanswered questions is weak, and it's pretty fanboyish to defend that shit.

But if you can still think it's all good despite that failure, good for you I guess.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 8:59 PM. Reason : .]

5/25/2010 8:58:37 PM

Were you expecting to see the next 60 years of Kate's life? The next 80 years of Aaron's life? The next 2000 years of Hurley's life?

To say there should have been no questions left unanswered (for this or any show) is absurd.

5/25/2010 9:01:23 PM

Complainers ITT have unresolved attachment issues.

5/25/2010 9:07:20 PM

Unresolved aspects of the story, not everything that ever happens to anyone, jesus christ.

The Sopranos finale sucks for this reason.

also: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

I'm sure all of the stuff in this video is remarkably unimportant, but perhaps you people will enjoy it.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 9:10 PM. Reason : .]

5/25/2010 9:07:42 PM

I watched 60 seconds of that video

Are those the questions you're concerned about?

All except the ones dealing with Walt were not at all significant to anything.

5/25/2010 9:10:29 PM

one thing I thought about today that I think might be an interesting point, and I want to see what you guys think. I'll try to put my thoughts into words that are easy to understand:

So, the flash sideways world that the characters created was a place for all of them to meet up after they died, to remember the events that 'were most important to them", and then they all could move on together. This world didnt take place at any "time" in particular, but we know for a fact that it was in the future since Hurley, Kate, etc. were still alive after Jack died. All this was pretty well explained by Christian.
My question is, did each of the characters exist in the flash sideways world before they died? For example, I will assume that Hurley was the last to die, since he was the protector of the island, yadda yadda. Did his character/soul also exist in the flash sideways before he died, or did the flash sideways, pre-afterlife world not officially "start" until Hurley died? I am just wondering how long the first people who died (Boone, etc.) were waiting around, hanging out in the flash sideways world before Hurley et. al. showed up.

I dont know if this came out right, I have a feeling I could try to type more to explain my thoughts, but would wind up going in circles. Hopefully this doesnt put me under the "cloud"

5/25/2010 9:13:09 PM

I am concerned about nothing regarding Lost.

I am bored and procrastinating by posting about lazy writing.

But read my edit.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 9:15 PM. Reason : ugh]

5/25/2010 9:14:50 PM

Quote :

"The Sopranos finale sucks for this reason."

like i said in a previous post, the sopranos finale was kind of a cop out, but they ended the show exactly the way they started it - a day in the life of a mafia boss. people who bitch about it should also bitch about not knowing everything that happened to tony soprano before the series began. it was a completely logical ending to the story and worked much better than tony soprano a) dying b) going to jail c) going to the feds for protection. but that's an entirely different discussion

Quote :

"http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291"

not only were many of these plot details pretty unimportant as other people said, but if anyone who watched the show paid attention they'd realize many of them were answered.

5/25/2010 9:19:39 PM

Quote :

"I'm sure all of the stuff in this video is remarkably unimportant, but perhaps you people will enjoy it."

I guess not.

5/25/2010 9:24:45 PM

^^^^ your question makes perfect sense. Someone else mentioned that maybe even though "Jack" existed in the flash-sideways, "Jack Jack" may not have popped into it until the point on the plane.

I think it's possible that they essentially relived their lifetime. But that, let's say Jack was 35, may have taken a thousand years. There was no real time in that place. 35 years of life may happen in what we perceive as a second, it may take 800 years of time as we perceive it.



Something I've been thinking about, and may need to rewatch some things to get a better idea; When Desmond's consciousness was jumping in what we though was time - maybe even way back to when he was on the freighter - was it actually jumping to this "pre-afterlife"?

Also, what did island Desmond think was going to happen when he went into the light. He told Jack he thought he was going to go somewhere, but he didn't. Did he think his mind was going to jump to the other place? Did he think he was going to die and pass on to that place?

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 9:25 PM. Reason : once again, too slow]

5/25/2010 9:24:50 PM

Lost: The Show ended a lot better than Lost: Season Six did. That's not saying much, though. With so much limited time in such a small number of episodes, why did we have all this exposition on the daily exploits of the "heaven" characters if they were just shells for the souls to be inserted in the last couple of episodes?

I wish it was the end of Season Five again so I didn't know for sure that I was getting fucked over.

5/25/2010 9:30:14 PM

Quote :

" Also, what did island Desmond think was going to happen when he went into the light. He told Jack he thought he was going to go somewhere, but he didn't. Did he think his mind was going to jump to the other place? Did he think he was going to die and pass on to that place?"

i don't know if he thought he was going to die, but he obviously knew what that other reality was because he told jack "none of this matters" or whatever, which says to me that he knew they all ended up together in whatever that place is.

5/25/2010 9:38:50 PM

5/25/2010 9:40:47 PM

^^^ I liked seeing how they were similar and different compared to their real life selves. And I thought it was a good plot device because it had people guessing. We originally had flashbacks. Then we had flashforward. Although, it was clear from the get go that it was a flash-forward. I believe the first one was during a 2hr finale and it wasn't made clear until the very end of the episode.

There was a lot of intrigue and discussion about the flash-sideways, what it was, what role it would play, would the island folk go "there." Some people hated the idea from the get go, some were interested by it. Personally, I predicted they would end up there in the same way that Desmond's consciousness was jumping someplace else. I guess I was kinda right in that they ended up there, but I definitely didn't think they would be dead. And maybe that's where it was that Desmond's consciousness was going back and forth to, maybe not - that's really something I just though and I'm not sure what I think about that just yet.



^^ yeah, so do you think he realized they were dead in that place? Or did he just think he was going to "go there?" - If he realized they were dead, there still was no need to make his death happen any sooner than necessary. So I'm think he may not have realized at that point that they were dead in that place.That, or he had just given up on real life and was OK with life ending anyway possible since he knew what the afterlife would be like. But that seems selfish to me. He still was leaving Penny and Charlie behind. -- so that leads me to believe he didn't not realize they were dead in that place. - does that make sense?

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 9:47 PM. Reason : ^]

5/25/2010 9:41:34 PM

Quote :

"And maybe that's where it was that Desmond's consciousness was going back and forth to, maybe not - that's really something I just though and I'm not sure what I think about that just yet."

at first i thought you might be right and then i got scared that it would spiral into another ridiculously long conversation on desmond's time/consciousness traveling ability, but now that i think about it it doesn't seem like that's the case, mainly because of penny. she didn't know him in the other timeline, so i can't see how it would've worked that way.

5/25/2010 9:48:55 PM

ah right, she knew him in both places when he was traveling back and forth on the freighter. but she didn't know him when we first saw him and her in the flash-sideways.

so did he die for a moment/"go toward the white light" when Widmore put him in the machine and thus gain knowledge of it? I think I would have liked it better if there was a precedent for him going to this after-life instead of it suddenly happening for no apparent reason. Or is it that what island Desmond thought he realized was completely different (he did say he was wrong) than what flash-sideways Desmond realized was going on?

edit: actually i guess maybe his soul/consciousness/whatever may have just went so far into the future that it ended up in the place it was after he died, and that's how he realized what was going on.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 10:01 PM. Reason : .]

5/25/2010 9:58:21 PM

Quote :

"actually i guess maybe his soul/consciousness/whatever may have just went so far into the future that it ended up in the place it was after he died, and that's how he realized what was going on."

yeah, i think i like that idea, at least until i watch everything again and see if i come up with something different.

5/25/2010 10:14:53 PM

^yeah and i think its just that same connection between the donkey wheel and shifting time/space. I'm curious as to how/why whidmore knew about this and wanted desmond for it.

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 10:24 PM. Reason : ]

5/25/2010 10:22:46 PM

Eloise seemed to know when Desmond first met her in the flash-sideways. So it's likely they both knew. - that doesn't really answer how they know though.

5/25/2010 11:15:40 PM

yeah thats the part i deleted in the edit, wasn't really sure how to phrase what i wanted to say

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/25/2010 11:26:30 PM

both eloise and faraday were pointless characters in the show. not saying a lot since a huge chunk of the show was pointless anyway. just pointing it out.

Quote :

"why dont you go write a fucking drama and get back to us. or do anything creative and see how that works out for you."

I could take over for season ix and do a hell of a lot better. Hell, any grade schooler could. I'm not sure I could think of a worse possible ending aside from the whole show being someones dream. What I got from the show was that Sawyer represented the personality of the writers and the finale was simply a "haha, got you to watch for 6 years now fuck you im out. got mine, bitches"

SUPER LONG CON

and they don't get any credit for all their creativity when the show only ended up being about personalities and nothing creative at all. Following through on at least one of the many creative mysteries from the show or at least showing proof that they had thought at least some of the plot through ahead of time would gain my respect. There was no continuity or flow to the plot.

Quote :

""Jack and MiB were able to kill one another because the plug was pulled from the magic light cave Pretty simple""

thats all just bullshit speculation. thats all anything you can gain from the show would be. We had been lead to believe the smoke monster would destroy the world if the light was let out. NOW YOU WANT TO TELL ME ALL IT DID WAS MAKE EVERYONE HUMAN. Then who the hell cares?

[Edited on May 26, 2010 at 12:28 AM. Reason : 6 year sawyer con]

5/26/2010 12:26:38 AM

one of the writers speaks

this is good shit

http://lostmediamentions.blogspot.com/2010/05/someone-from-bad-robots-take-on-finale.html

5/26/2010 12:44:22 AM

Quote :

"why dont you go write a fucking drama and get back to us. or do anything creative and see how that works out for you."

Really? You're pulling that?

"Gonna criticize Lamar Odom? How many NBA teams have you played for?"

5/26/2010 12:53:31 AM

^^Wow, that person has tons of great insights.

5/26/2010 12:56:57 AM

Quote :

"http://lostmediamentions.blogspot.com/2010/05/someone-from-bad-robots-take-on-finale.html"

damn. that's awesome to know that they definitely had an exact endgame in mind from the very beginning. i guess it's being nitpicky to say that juliet was in the church despite not being a season 1 character, but they obviously changed it as she became more important.

Quote :

"mambagrl's last post"

5/26/2010 1:20:09 AM

i'm not sure i buy that one of the writes sent that out. But it is a very interesting read.

5/26/2010 2:09:56 AM

Alright, these arguments are boring. Everyone post a picture of your favorite/hottest LOST lady! My nominee:

5/26/2010 6:40:34 AM

FWIW

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b182886_lost_more_proof_they_did_not_all_die_in.html

Quote :

"Newsflash to anyone still thinking that all the Losties died when Oceanic 815 hit the island: Those final images of Sunday night's series finale—of the plane wreckage on the island with no survivors—were not the producers' doing. The show's ABC rep just told me: "The images shown during the end credits of the Lost finale, which included shots of Oceanic 815 on a deserted beach, were not part of the episode but were a visual aid to allow the viewer to decompress before heading into the news." The statement was first acquired by the Los Angeles Times. The images were added by the network, not Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, to soften the transition to the 11:00 news. Read more: http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b182886_lost_more_proof_they_did_not_all_die_in.html#ixzz0p2J0Ydft "

oh and i in no way believe the link above was written by any "writer" on the show. No industry professional would ever write something like this "Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come." And it loses even more credibility after the link i just posted. However, it is interesting none the less.

5/26/2010 8:02:50 AM

In any event, the wreckage was clearly not fresh. It would have to be fresh wreckage if the implication was that they had all died in the original crash.

5/26/2010 8:15:26 AM

Quote :

"oh and i in no way believe the link above was written by any "writer" on the show. No industry professional would ever write something like this "Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come." And it loses even more credibility after the link i just posted. However, it is interesting none the less."

yeah, and i'd like to think a writer for a television show wouldn't have the kind of spelling and grammatical errors that guy had

5/26/2010 8:51:51 AM

The Bad Robot guy reveals a lot of stuff that makes sense...after the fact. I wish that stuff had been hinted at more strongly in the series so we wouldn't be so confused in the end.

5/26/2010 9:29:52 AM

The wreckage shot was obviously on ABC, not the writers, and was not meant to be a clue to anything.

That being said...

Quote :

"It would have to be fresh wreckage if the implication was that they had all died in the original crash."

I think the conclusion being drawn by people was based on the wreckage shown was rusty and seemed to have been sitting on that beach for a while. The actual wreckage of 815 was blown up or burned or washed away, thus the aged wreckage would indicate that no one had touched it after the crash, presumably because everyone died on impact.

[Edited on May 26, 2010 at 9:42 AM. Reason : ]

5/26/2010 9:35:35 AM

I thought it was just to show that the wreckage is now part of the "lore" of the island. Just like the statue, the black rock, all the dharma shit, etc..... Centuries later people are going to show up on the island and be like "wtf is with this plane wreckage".

5/26/2010 9:39:30 AM

^Very good point! I didn't think of that!

And I really wish they would have had something about what the Bad Robot dude said. It would have answered a lot of the major questions and wouldn't have taken more than a few minutes of Jacob telling them stuff by that fire.

5/26/2010 10:08:43 AM

obviously

5/26/2010 10:17:44 AM

---->

5/26/2010 11:15:12 AM