I think the combat is excellent, minus the occasionally terrible AI.

Quote :

"-Sticky cover system ala 'Gears of War' minus half the utility."

I thought it worked pretty good. Sure it wasn't as seamless as Gears, but that game is a straight up shooter, nothing else.

Quote :

"-Pausing Combat to switch weapons -Pausing Combat to use bionics"

This allows you to select targets for your teammates as well, it's incredibly useful.
Besides, one of the games you used as an example for why the combat sucks (bioshock) requires you to pause to select weapons and powers too.

Quote :

"-Weapon accuracy thats out of this world bad."

The accuracy gets much better. Here is an example of you complaining about it being an RPG.

Quote :

"-Its two hundred years into the future, mankind is all over the Universe, and my shotgun still overheats"

Read the codex and you get a pretty good idea why.

Quote :

"-which brings me to another: Shotgun, assault rifle, pistol, sniper rifle...Really guys...really?"

Really, what do you suggest?

Quote :

"-Melee combat thats isn't seamlessly organized."

As you say, it's 200 years into the future. Melee combat is not very important.

Quote :

"-Can't jump, I can't fathom why, but you can't."

I can't fathom why you would need to. You can't jump in Gears of War.

^ Early level assault rifle is really only useful at medium to close range. Not only do you not have many talent points in it, if you notice the AR's you get early their accuracy rating is 1.

Once you start getting your AR skill up, and getting good equipment, and put some recoil damening and heat sink mods on there, you can pretty much fire constantly at the same spot without your aiming reticle getting larger or your gun overheating.

[Edited on December 3, 2007 at 11:50 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2007 11:47:17 AM

Quote :

"I knew somebody was going to reply with something retarded like that."

Fighting fire with fire, the way I see it.

You're complaining the game isn't like an FPS. Because it's not an FPS. I didn't have any major issues with the combat system. Neither did the majority of people that played it, it seems.

It's fine if it's not your thing, but to me it's like going into a madden 2008 thread and talking about how all you do is play football all the time and how in Tiger Woods you get to play golf. If you want a golf game, buy a golf game. If you want an RPG, Mass Effect is one of the best.

12/3/2007 11:48:33 AM

There's so many issues with this combat system that the only thing I'd recommend is for them to scrap it and start again. If this game isn't an fps, then what is it? A third person shooter?

At the end of the day do you not pull the trigger, -in real time-, to kill your opponent?

I'm not saying the game, which you all are so vehemently defending without reason, is bad.

I'm saying the combat is bad.

Really bad.

And you arguing anything but highlights your own inexperience with well executed combat systems. If you actually are seriously arguing "no I don't think they could have made this combat any better" then you and I have absolutely no basis for any type of video game discussion in the future.

And to the asshat that quoted my weapons line and said something to the effect of "what would you suggest?"

Well lets see, 200 years into the future?

I'd like:

-Ranged immobilizer: A weapon that rendered opponents immobile for 10 mins so I can accomplish a mission without killing anyone. Score those Paragon points, dawg.

-Gravity grenade: A grenade that suspends gravity in the room for a set period of time x, so everyone is floating around.

-Plasma rifle: a REAL plasma rifle, one that instantly disintegrates opponents. Not a slower version of a rifle that every other shitty sci fi game has.

-Shield grenade: Think the deployable shields in halo 3.


and thats what I've come up with in 4 mins of thought.


I mean the game is set 200 years into the future and has the same weapon set found in DOOM.

DOOM

(which had a better combat engine.)

12/3/2007 11:59:21 AM

I don't think anyone is saying that this combat system is the best around. They're just saying that if you bought this game looking for a combat system to rival Bioshock or GoW then you're kinda missing the point.

All of your improvements sound like they'd be great in an Action based FPS. But again, it's almost like you're complaining you can't get a good set of irons to use with the Bengals. It just didn't set out to be that type of game.

Quote :

"I mean the game is set 200 years into the future and has the same weapon set found in DOOM."

Wasn't doom set in the far future too?

Quote :

"DOOM (which had a better combat engine.)"

Now you're just openly trolling

12/3/2007 12:16:53 PM

santa your posts are fucking idiotic. and worse you suck at the game and are blaming the combat because you're no good. learn to play and shut up.

[Edited on December 3, 2007 at 12:34 PM. Reason : d]

12/3/2007 12:34:44 PM

Weapons of Halo 3 Human side:

Pistol
Shotgun
Assault Rifle
Battle Rifle
Sniper
Rocket Launcher
Spartan Laser

OK, the Laser is pretty damn cool, but just because its in the future doesn't mean you need new weapons. I think futuristic weapons in this game would put it closer to just being a reskin of KOTOR, from what I hear.

[Edited on December 3, 2007 at 12:43 PM. Reason : and SMG and any other weapons I forgot]

12/3/2007 12:42:33 PM

I wouldn't even bother arguing this if the game wasn't as fantastic it as it is. You don't see me posting a bitch thread about Timesplitters2. I love the game. I played 12 hours straight yesterday- something I havent done with a videogame since getting WoW two years ago.

I'm nerd raging because I find it incredible that a company can put so much detail into a game universe and then come up with a combat system that needs only one play through to realize its terrible.

Anyway, I'm done frothing over this subject.

[Edited on December 3, 2007 at 12:44 PM. Reason : >.<]

12/3/2007 12:43:34 PM

i really love this game

except taking the elevator in the normandy

that's all i have to add to this discussion

12/3/2007 12:46:28 PM

i'd rather have it this way than queue up 10 commands and watch them fight

and if you're playing video games 12 hours straight, i think you have more to worry about than jumping in mass effect

12/3/2007 1:17:46 PM

In response to the 'starting from scratch' argument, I agree that we really don't need to start like a total novice at the beginning just to improve incrementally as we progress throughout the game. I think we should start strong and get even stronger.

Look at Crackdown's leveling system. Even when you started out, you were pretty badass, enough so that you were already pretty deadly. But as you leveled up, you got rediculously powerful, so you could jump 30 feet and throw cars.

Now obviously this wouldn't work for most games. But instead of starting with basically 0 skill in something, I think you should start at maybe 50 percent skill in everything, and then choose which areas you want to get even better at.

As it is in Mass Effect, my Inflitrator is a deadeye with the sniper rifle or pistol...yet has absolutely no skill with a shotgun or assault rifle. This doesn't make much sense. I may not be great with either of those weapons, but I should at least be able to handle them competently if I'm so great with the other guns.

I would like it if you were given a set level of skill in all attributes, so you weren't limited to just what you specialized in. Then allow me to choose which attributes I want to excel at, rather than just choosing which attributes I have at all.

12/3/2007 1:33:29 PM

It's funny, because in a lot of Bioware's D&D RPGs, you did start off with a relatively powerful character. The original Baldur's Gate was about the only one where you started as a complete noob, but if you know the story, it made perfect sense why.

12/3/2007 1:36:26 PM

Now that we have a discussion, I think the issue at heart is that RPG's are still sticking to the 'class' school of thought. In that, they want to differentiate classes from each other as much as possible. I think the genre needs to evolve beyond this and just remove the concept of choosing classes all together.

Your actions in the game world should determine who you end up as, not a preselected option before you've even gotten into the game world. In Mass Effect, for instance, we should all start as generally competent with all weapons, and then choose where we want to put our extra talent points into to become amazingly deadly with a specific skillset. I put points into in the sniper rifle and gain a 'bullet time' effect when zoomed in with the scope, for instance. Then when I switch to assault rifle, I shouldn't have a spray radius wider then an oil tanker, but just a normally accurate spray with no special effects added since I have no points invested in that talent.

When I continue to do things in a specific way, I should automatically level in that direction as well. Say I use negotiation consistently, well then my charm and intimidate talents should automatically level because I'm using those specific talents. The 'practice makes perfect' mentality. Or likewise if I just like to blow shit up, then my brute physical talents should be the ones amplified.

The game does some of this already, it just doesn't go far enough to make it seamless and well integrated. That, unfortunately, is the difference between being a good game and being truly revolutionary.

12/3/2007 2:30:15 PM

Want to play the best video game in the world? YOU haven't created it yet!

12/3/2007 2:32:13 PM

^^I think Asheron's Call and Everquest II tried something like that. People who play those games love the system, but it seems most people would rather just be pigeonholed into an archetype from the start, as long as it's fun to play.

12/3/2007 2:39:00 PM

Quote :

"Oh, and I'm asking questions, what are the special Asari upgrades I'm supposed to be privy to after I off'ed a guy for that chick in the embassy lounge?"

I believe they are biotic amplifiers. Just did this quest on my second character a few days ago and noticed a new bioamp on sale (i think it was from the c-sec requisition officer) produced by the "Service Council".

My character is only level 34 so I got the "Savant VII" amp (Duration Bonus: 35, Power Bonus: 40, cooldown bonus: 35). It is better than any amp I remember from my first playthrough and I imagine it gets better at higher levels.

12/3/2007 3:02:24 PM

i dont even use biotics...man one of the drawbacks of renting a game through Gamefly is any and all reference I have for controls and directions on gameplay comes from xbox.com or gamefaqs.com, etc

12/3/2007 3:05:49 PM

Well...ACII and EQII had other serious issues going against them.

12/3/2007 3:28:46 PM

sandsanta you'd love oblivion then. you pick a class and then get even better from using the skills. just cuz your a warrior doesnt make you decent with armor unless you actually wear it. you still can't really use spells well, but you can use a few (and even then you dont have a ton of mana).

12/3/2007 3:42:56 PM

i loved oblivion on 360

12/3/2007 3:48:11 PM

I still don't see what is wrong with having all that room to upgrade your skills in combat. It's great fun. Beats the square pants off of every other RPG in my opinion by far. Thats' why people that complain about the combat are spoiled...becuase it does so many things that keep you more involved...but perhaps it is a your either 'get it' or 'don't get it'. I fucking get it! But that's b/c I tire of turned based everything man....just don't have the patience for it any more. I also like that in ME when you down people you don't have to go loot every body all monotonous and in boring fashion. It auto-loots so when you get to the inventory screen it updates what loot you procured from your kills. That is so much better I can't explain.

But in terms of difficulty, I like that you start out so bad, so that for instance, with the sniper rifle, that to take down a krogan or geth across the room it's hell to keep the scope under control. it's moving as you are breathing and such....It's not about realism, it's that it's really fun struggling through that at first and as you get more powerful, the aiming starts to tighten up. There's lots of ways to improve and play this game. Granted I'm playing as a soldier, and I let all tech and biotic abilities be handled by Tali, Wrex, or Kaidan.

You can increase your sensitivity in combat on the options menu and it really starts to feel like a FPS.

12/3/2007 3:56:44 PM

tell me when yall start talking about actual gameplay again

if i wanted to read bickering i'd click on the ps3 thread

12/3/2007 4:07:01 PM

wait, I was talking about gameplay....

12/3/2007 4:15:51 PM

Not having to manually loot each body is a plus, but I wish there were some other items in the game.

For example, the items of Mass Effect are limited to weapons, armor, upgrades, and medkits. No other items can be obtained or inspected (quest items just show up in your quest log). There is no loot other than finding more weapons, and these automatically get better (in a completely linear progression: Assault Rifle I, Assault Rifle II, and so on) as you advance. Because they’re the only thing you can find, you’ll soon have piles of pistols and shotguns, which you can sell for cash to buy– what? The only thing you can buy is more weapons.

The lack of any other kind of item than these in the game really detracts from the realism of the world. Imagine driving through a desolate ice field on a distant planet, picking up some debris on your scan, making your way to it and finding an old crashed probe, and finally, opening it up to find... a sniper rifle, of all things. It just doesn’t work that well.

12/3/2007 4:20:06 PM

^you should have played Star Wars Galaxies back in the day.

12/3/2007 4:22:47 PM

I like it when I am wheelin around on some foreign planet, checking out various wreckages and anomolies, when bam, I see a metal or ore deposit. Well I'll certainly drive my 6-wheeler over there to survey it, I mean it could be gold or titanium right? So I stand right beside it and survey it and it turns out to be plutonium or uranium. Boy I sure am glad I surveyed those radioactive elements from up close!

12/3/2007 4:28:08 PM

Quote :

" Your actions in the game world should determine who you end up as, not a preselected option before you've even gotten into the game world. In Mass Effect, for instance, we should all start as generally competent with all weapons, and then choose where we want to put our extra talent points into to become amazingly deadly with a specific skillset. I put points into in the sniper rifle and gain a 'bullet time' effect when zoomed in with the scope, for instance. Then when I switch to assault rifle, I shouldn't have a spray radius wider then an oil tanker, but just a normally accurate spray with no special effects added since I have no points invested in that talent. "

does the word 'balancing' ring a bell.

and your reason's for bad gameplay mechanics hurt my head. am I getting it right that you don't like this game because you can't beat it on anything but easy?

Quote :

"I believe they are biotic amplifiers. Just did this quest on my second character a few days ago and noticed a new bioamp on sale (i think it was from the c-sec requisition officer) produced by the "Service Council". "

it allows you to buy the asari company's license from the hanaar in the financial district. it also includes being able to buy phantom armor (the same armor that Nihlus wears).

[Edited on December 3, 2007 at 5:14 PM. Reason : fff]

12/3/2007 5:09:42 PM

^ah good to know. I'll keep an eye out for that next time I go shopping.

12/3/2007 5:17:31 PM

but just so you know it's rare as fuck to buy from the requisition officer. the phantom armor I have now I got from a crate on ilos or whatever.

12/3/2007 5:37:13 PM

Quote :

" does the word 'balancing' ring a bell. "

It's a single player game. Please define what issue you with what I stated that makes encounters "hard to balance"

Quote :

" and your reason's for bad gameplay mechanics hurt my head. am I getting it right that you don't like this game because you can't beat it on anything but easy? "

No actually I provided a pretty thorough list but if that hurts your head then we have no basis for discussion.

As a tip though, I wouldn't point out a simple post about game mechanics as hard to understand without specifically saying way.

Cryion, I played Oblivion. Loved it.

12/3/2007 5:45:59 PM

Balancing isn't exclusive to multiplayer content. Game designers don't create a combat system in a way that just lets the players blow right through the combat. If that weren't the case with Mass Effect they would have let you add more skills than just one.

And the way you complained about the mechanics of Mass Effect's combat system seemed like you were just bad at the game. The cover system isn't even difficult to use in the least and if you take the time to micromanage your teammates will take cover accordingly. The petty nitpicking that composed your "thorough list" basically just screamed you ran into fights and died and blamed the combat system.

12/3/2007 6:00:29 PM

Quote :

"Cryion, I played Oblivion. Loved it."

I think this argument is over.

If you loved oblivion combat, but don't like mass effect, then there's probably nothing I can say that you would agree with.

12/3/2007 7:29:32 PM

the only fight I die in is the stupid rocket launching drones. They won't come after me unless I go out in the open. Which is a pretty intelligent AI...unless its just a bug other than that, once you get enough accuracy upgrades combat is pretty easy to blow through and fun.

12/3/2007 7:45:47 PM

i've either got a glitch or i'm doing something wrong, maybe somebody can help me

on the world where you have to kill that big plant by blowing up all the nodes there are some small optional missions like getting power cells for the chick and you find them under the roads...well one of the optional missions is to kill the Alpha Whatever so people can hunt in the tunnels again...well I killed them and got the paragraph about it, but then when i went back to notify the guy, every time i talk to him he just says something about "so and so is gone" and thats it...i think he's supposed to tell me thanks for killing the alpha dogs...anyone had this happen to them as well? the guy is standing inside the freighter on the ground on the mission btw

12/3/2007 7:53:22 PM

Quote :

"Shotgun, assault rifle, pistol, sniper rifle...Really guys...really?"

I agree with this one.

A)

-You're firing a tiny speck of metal at velocities approaching the speed of light.
-Your weapon's computer automatically calculates the ideal mass and speed of the projectile based on range and target.
-All the rounds you shoot are designed to shatter on impact.
-All your rounds are coming from the same block of material.
-The -only- limiting factor in all weapons of this type is recoil.

Do you really need four separate weapons to adapt to varying situations?


B)

Disregarding all that, I'd at least like to see characters only carrying the weapons they're capable of firing.

It's silly to have Liara or the Quarian carrying around the full complement of weapons even though they can only use a quarter of them.


^ I remember having to tell him I killed them in a round-about way, but I can't remember the specifics-- did you explore all your conversation choices?

[Edited on December 3, 2007 at 8:03 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on December 3, 2007 at 8:04 PM. Reason : .]

12/3/2007 8:01:51 PM

no conversation choices, its just like you're talking to a normal person with one response...dunno, i'll see what happens my 2nd time through

12/3/2007 8:27:16 PM

Quote :

"It's funny, because in a lot of Bioware's D&D RPGs, you did start off with a relatively powerful character. The original Baldur's Gate was about the only one where you started as a complete noob, but if you know the story, it made perfect sense why."

Actually, both KotORs started you at level 1 (you just seemed a bit more powerful thanks to the star wars integration into the ruleset), and Icewind Dale 1 (and also 2 if I remember correctly) also started you at level 1.

12/4/2007 12:01:44 AM

KOTOR isn't a D&D RPG

KOTOR II isn't even a Bioware title.

12/4/2007 7:38:48 AM

So a question I had on the last page

Can you force a teammate to use a medpac to heal the group?

I'm only about 2.5 hours in, but haven't seen anything like this yet

oh, and do any of you have a noticeable load time problem with the game? I'll be running around, and actually see a small load icon pop up and freeze my game for about a minute...and i'll also try and start a conversation with someone, and no voices will begin until about 10 seconds after the scene has started, making the syncing off....i'm thinking it might be the xbox. I wish it would hurry up and red ring so I could get a new one

12/4/2007 7:53:25 AM

You're using their first aid skill when you hit the Y button. Just like with lockpicking.

And although loading's is an issue with the game, it's not that much of an issue. Your box ist kaput.

12/4/2007 8:00:39 AM

i've had the 2-3 second load screens, especially when you land on a new planet, but nothing that screws up the voice/video synch or anything like that

12/4/2007 9:42:14 AM

My girlfriend's dog pissed on my controller and now my controller is broken.

I wonder how long it took to train her to do that?

12/4/2007 9:52:51 AM

ugh, i knew it

fucking replacement xbox

come on red ring!

Also, even with brand new games i'm getting disc unreadable errors (assassin's creed and mass effect, both within an hour of play right out of the box)

Of course this won't be covered, so i've gotta get this thing to overheat somehow

12/4/2007 9:57:01 AM

you could always just call M$ and tell them you got the red rings

12/4/2007 10:04:03 AM

Game's ending was Epic.

I hope bungie played this title to learn how to properly end a storyline.

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 10:36 AM. Reason : >.<]

12/4/2007 10:36:45 AM

you beat it already??? damn I'm still knocking out all the side missions lol

12/4/2007 10:40:30 AM

Q: What do you call it when the main villain rips one after eating beans?

A: Sarin gas

wait for it

12/4/2007 10:41:34 AM

hahahaha

12/4/2007 10:48:17 AM

I did a lot of the side missions as well at the points of interest though I didn't fly around as much.

Very good game. I think I might play through again using a female character and different class.

12/4/2007 1:36:25 PM

Quote :

"KOTOR isn't a D&D RPG"

Like hell is isn't.

12/4/2007 2:05:38 PM

Quote :

"you beat it already??? damn I'm still knocking out all the side missions lol"

i've beaten it 3 times already B-\

but I did get it two weeks early

12/4/2007 2:13:30 PM