yup. i technically grew up in harrisburg, which borders both charlotte and concord. when my parents built my house when i was in 1st/2nd grade there was nothing but cow fields all around our neighborhood, a road leading down to the neighborhood that was neither lined nor city-paved, we had well water and there was only 1 grocery store, drug store, or fast food restaurant within 15 miles or so.

ie not wilderness but not citylike.

now we have been annexed, paved, city served (and taxed). and driving down 49 from charlotte to harrisburg it never transitions down. its targets, wal marts, other shopping centers, car lots, fast food places out the wazoo. its nearly indistinguishable that it you ever actually left charlotte, and continue on and now youre at the mall and concord mills which is even more built up. thus, in my opinion concord/harrisburg are already absorbed and will be nearly completely within the next 10 years.

[Edited on February 5, 2008 at 2:12 PM. Reason : ]

2/5/2008 2:10:57 PM

Quote :

"Everyone I know that has lived as an adult in both cities agree that Charlotte is a bigger city and a better city. And I know quite a few people who have lived in both now, including myself. Visit Raleigh and drive around, then visit Charlotte and drive around. Big difference IMO."

charlotte is bigger but not better imo. it has no character. its all starter neighborhoods and malls.

the downtown is alright i guess.

2/5/2008 2:13:52 PM

same can be said for cary and garner. hell even knightdale and wake in the last few years.

2/5/2008 2:15:20 PM

http://www.google.com/trends?q=dumb%2C+stupid&ctab=0

2/5/2008 2:33:21 PM

Quote :

"its all starter neighborhoods and malls."

not really but i guess depending on where you've been in charlotte you might think that

2/5/2008 3:26:52 PM

basically lived there for 17 years. my house was in harrisburg as i stated, just outside of the charlotte city limits (about 10 miles)

But i went to school in south charlotte (about 45 mins from my house heh), was downtown constantly for music, movie, food related stuff and had friends, places i worked at etc. all over the city. so i know it pretty well.

but yea, it was an exaggeration to say the whole city is, but anything that has been built up in the last 10 years in charlotte seems like its all been rushed, not planned, and only there to turn a quick profit (ie ugly, low value starter neighborhoods and 2 new huge malls). and the traffic in charlotte is horrendous. thats definitely one of the things i like about greenville sc despite missing the raleigh/charlotte areas.

but to me, the raleigh area just seemed to have a bit more character, maybe i just wasnt in the spots in raleigh that had all the starter neighborhoods and such.

[Edited on February 5, 2008 at 3:39 PM. Reason : ]

2/5/2008 3:38:50 PM

Quote :

"charlotte and the populated areas of concord are already pretty fluidly merged. "

Indeed. Charlotte is becoming one big blob. Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill on the other hand still has some pretty distinct borders.

2/5/2008 5:03:22 PM

^^fair enough

i grew up off of Providence but much closer to downtown than arboretum for example...lots of old neighborhoods, etc...but yeah a lot of the areas they've built up and neighborhoods they've built farther from center city (and even some near downtown) are often some cookie cutter subdivisions that definitely dont have any character...i guess also since i'm from charlotte it has character to me whereas i only lived in raleigh for 5 years

2/5/2008 5:17:43 PM

Quote :

"but anything that has been built up in the last 10 years in charlotte seems like its all been rushed, not planned, and only there to turn a quick profit (ie ugly, low value starter neighborhoods and 2 new huge malls)."

Yeah i think this is true for many developments outside of the central Charlotte area, but on the other hand when you look at downtown, it's gotten A LOT better in the last 10 years.

More people have decided to live downtown, and more things have been built to bring people to downtown charotte (Bobcats Arena, New Childrens Library, LIGHT RAIL IS AWESOME and packed, and the new Bechtler art museum designed by Mario Botta!!! Who's only other work in the United States is the San Fran moma!!!)

2/5/2008 5:43:27 PM

Quote :

"LIGHT RAIL IS AWESOME and packed"

i agree

2/5/2008 5:48:03 PM

Quote :

"^^fair enough i grew up off of Providence but much closer to downtown than arboretum for example...lots of old neighborhoods, etc...but yeah a lot of the areas they've built up and neighborhoods they've built farther from center city (and even some near downtown) are often some cookie cutter subdivisions that definitely dont have any character...i guess also since i'm from charlotte it has character to me whereas i only lived in raleigh for 5 years"

i can understand that.

and i was on providence road all the time for stuff (GF lived off providence, but near the end of the mecklenburg county part. ie near the arbo)

2/5/2008 5:50:10 PM

^haha mine did too in highschool. Pain in the ass driving all the way out there from the Plaza-Midwood area.

Did you guys know The Penguin was featured on the food network? They focused on the fried pickles and the homemade pimento cheese. I can't believe they didn't mention the amazing sweet potato fries they have.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_dv/episode/0,3151,FOOD_29156_50506,00.html

[Edited on February 5, 2008 at 5:56 PM. Reason : .]

2/5/2008 5:53:18 PM

haha yup. got a lot better when 485 was extended out closer to me though. then again id take that drive over the 4 hour drive i have to see her now but at least that 4 hour drive to see her puts me in raleigh where i love spending weekends anyways

2/5/2008 6:28:27 PM

Quote :

"but anything that has been built up in the last 10 years in charlotte seems like its all been rushed, not planned, and only there to turn a quick profit (ie ugly, low value starter neighborhoods and 2 new huge malls)."

That seems to be the building plan of North Carolina as a whole.

2/5/2008 6:30:59 PM

^actually not really true. North Carolina has some of the best housing development in the country.

Check out the forbes list for "Best U.S. Housing Markets."

Raleigh, NC is number 3, and Charlotte, NC is number 4. Looks like NC and Cali have the majority. In fact NC doesn't have any in the top 10 worst, but Cali does.

Quote :

"Charlotte has quietly become America's second largest finance center behind New York City, which has helped keep the housing market strong. "

http://www.forbes.com/2007/08/16/homes-prices-housing-forbeslife-cx_mw_0816bestrealestate_slide_2.html?thisSpeed=15000

Full article:
http://www.forbes.com/2007/08/16/homes-prices-housing-forbeslife-cx_mw_0816realestate.html

Now obviously this isn't directly related to quality/design of the housing plus urban planning, but it still gives a good idea of what people are buying and comparative pricing.

Quote :

"etc...but yeah a lot of the areas they've built up and neighborhoods they've built farther from center city (and even some near downtown) are often some cookie cutter subdivisions that definitely dont have any character"

If you think it's bad here try driving around California for a while. You'll think NC suburbs are heaven.

[Edited on February 5, 2008 at 8:09 PM. Reason : ..]

2/5/2008 8:03:00 PM

^^^^man, the Penguin does have some amazing pickle chips.

if you are looking for some good ones in Raleigh, though, the Village Draft House's are probably the best i've ever had. As an added bonus, pickle chips from VDH don't come with the inch of grease that you get at the Penguin.

2/10/2008 11:32:00 PM

charlotte blows cock.

who would want to live there?

2/11/2008 9:22:32 AM

Apparently a few million people disagree.

And a few hundred thousand join them every year.

2/11/2008 12:27:42 PM

i'm moving to china then

A BILLION PEOPLE CAN'T BE WRONG

2/11/2008 12:34:21 PM

Quote :

"And a few hundred thousand join them every year."

charlotte is growing, but not by that much.

2/11/2008 12:36:39 PM

Personally, I'll take Raleigh over Charlotte any day (have lived in both), but I just thought I'd pop in to agree that the Penguin is awesome.

2/11/2008 12:39:21 PM

Quote :

"A BILLION PEOPLE CAN'T BE WRONG"

2/11/2008 12:45:42 PM

I can't remember if I've posted in this thread or not, but after having lived in both:
Charlotte >>> Raleigh

It's a stupid argument though; people are never going to agree. It's a matter of opinion.

2/11/2008 1:00:54 PM

Charlotte now ranked one of the top ten "most miserable cities"

http://promo.realestate.yahoo.com/americas-most-miserable-cities.html

Quote :

"The biggest surprise on our list is Charlotte, N.C. , which is ranked ninth. Charlotte has undergone tremendous economic growth the past decade, while the population has soared 32%. But the current picture isn't as bright. Employment growth has not kept up with population growth, meaning unemployment rates are up more than 50% compared with 10 years ago. Charlotte scored in the bottom half of all six categories we examined. It scored the worst on violent crime, ranking 140th."

2/11/2008 7:57:09 PM

^ yeah and on the same page. Raleigh is best sellers market for real estate.

Top Sellers' Markets
1. Raleigh, NC
2. San Francisco, CA
3. Austin, TX
4. San Antonio, TX
5. St. Louis, MO
6. Houston, TX
7. Portland, OR
8. Dallas, TX
9. Denver, CO
10. Baltimore, MD

2/11/2008 7:59:30 PM

^^Yeah but New York and LA are also further up on that list than Charlotte. I guess it just depends on how they rank them. Would any of you say NYC, Chicago, LA, and Philli, are all MORE miserable than Charlotte, NC? Course not. I mean look at the list:

1. Detroit, Mich.
2. Stockton, Calif.
3. Flint, Mich.
4. New York, N.Y.
5. Philadelphia, Pa.
6. Chicago, Ill.
7. Los Angeles, Calif.
8. Modesto, Calif.
9. Charlotte, N.C.
10. Providence, R.I.

It just seems like you could find any list to say anything, but it seems like they all conflict with each other. I mean if you wanna say New York, LA, and Chicago are "miserable" cities, then i guess you could, but that's a VERY VERY strict definition of the word "miserable". I mean come on, LA? NYC? Chicago? Of course there's miserable aspects of them, but you gotta look at everything else. It's kinda stupid to blankly mark them as "miserable cities".

I mean some of those cities are the biggest in the United States. Of course statistically you could break them down into having a lot of crime, high-unemployment, etc, but it's kinda given with that large of a city, but to call them overall "miserable cities" is kinda doing an injustice to those cities.

I mean someone else could make another list of most "miserable" cities based upon lack of popularity, culture, arts, history, etc etc, and i bet NYC, Chicago, Philli, and LA would be NO WHERE near the top of that list.

NYC/LA:

Quote :

"The United States' two biggest cities both induce a ton of misery. New York was the fourth most miserable city by our count, while Los Angeles clocked in at sixth. The Big Apple has the longest commute times (36.2 minutes) and the highest tax rates (10.5%) in the country. As the financial capital of the world and home to write-down kings Merrill Lynch and Citigroup , New York appears poised for more misery in 2008."

So does everyone agree that misery should be measured by commute time and taxes? Of COURSE not!!! This survey doesn't even take into effect the Arts, Culture, Business, attractions, history, etc etc etc. Those in my opinion are the MOST important aspects of the reputation of a city. Not if it takes you a long time to get to work because there's a bunch of people living there.

^As i posted before:
http://www.forbes.com/2007/08/16/homes-prices-housing-forbeslife-cx_mw_0816bestrealestate_slide_2.html?thisSpeed=15000

Charlotte is 4th, and Raleigh is 3rd for best housing markets. So i don't know how all these surveys make any sense.

Plus this is all irrelevant because it's based upon personal experience. Those of us who have lived in both cities for an extended period of time can decide which city they like best, but if you haven't lived in both cities for a long time, then all you've got is online "rankings" that only give you a statistical view of that city. I think it's just kinda sad that people would rather rely upon online lists, then actually experiencing a city. I've lived in Raleigh for 5 years, and Charlotte for the past 22, and there's plenty of things i like about each city. Saying one is "superior" to another is kinda childesh.

[Edited on February 11, 2008 at 10:36 PM. Reason : .]

2/11/2008 10:07:55 PM

I dunno, I think commute times, taxes, unemployment, and crime are pretty damn good indicators about how much a city would suck for somebody who actually lives and works there for years (not just a tourist or someone who visits on business trips).

2/12/2008 10:27:39 AM

It's been my observation that there seems to be "Raleigh people" and "Charlotte people". The ones that like one generally don't care so much for the other.

2/12/2008 11:16:06 AM

i think a lot of "Charlotte People" like Raleigh because they went to school there and lived there for 4-5 years...seems to me a bunch of "Raleigh People" have visited one of their friends in some metro area of Charlotte and base their opinion of the city on visiting a few times...just my take on it...cause you pretty much know the "Charlotte People" have lived in Raleigh for years, since we all went to State

I've talked to "Raleigh People" who were like "yeah I went to Charlotte last weekend, it kind of sucked" and I was like "really what part" and they're like "Mooresville" or someplace thats just simply not even Charlotte...like hey I was in Raleigh the other weekend...oh yeah what part...the ghettos of Durham, I hated it

2/12/2008 11:30:00 AM

Quote :

"Apparently a few million people disagree. And a few hundred thousand join them every year."

Interesting since the entire population of Charlotte is under 1 million...

I can vouch for some of these "miserable" ratings. I live in NYC and after a while it wears you down. After a while you don't care about all the culture, restaurants, and scenery around you anymore, lol.

2/12/2008 1:29:03 PM

^ According to a 2006 survey Charlotte's metro area is 1,583,016. This includes Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord obviously. But if you consider people commute from these towns into Charlotte, you can consider it the overall population. I mean half the people who say they're from Charlotte on TWW are from suburbs outside of the actual city population limits.

^^Yeah exacly. The only people who hate on Charlotte are the people who've only been there on a weekend or been to some odd place that barely represents the city (now someones gonna say, "oh but i've lived there for 5 years and still hate it!", well then move!).

Basically it seems most people who grew up in Charlotte, but went to school here like both cities for different reasons. If someones blindly hating one it's probably because they've only lived in one.

2/12/2008 1:44:56 PM

I know the metro area is bigger, but including Gastonia is a little ridiculous.

2/12/2008 1:46:00 PM

^If you really want we can look up the number of people who commute from Gaston to Charlotte every day. Ever been on 77N/S, 85N/s during rush hour? It seems like the whole damn city lives in the surrounding towns.

2/12/2008 1:51:18 PM

^^^No. We hate on Charlotte because the people from there won't shut the fuck up about how fucking big it is.

I mean, good God, man. You are out of control with that shit.

Y'all kept saying that if I haven't lived there, I can't talk shit.

But this thread is all I need for a year-long pass of shit-talking.

"BIG CITY! BANKING INDUSTRY! BIG CITY! BANKING INDUSTRY! Oh, you visited that suburb? That part of Charlotte sucks. In fact, that's not really Charlotte, but we still count it to reinforce the BIG CITY! bit that we can't seem to stop repeating."




CHARLOTTE BLOOOOOOOOOOOWS, BITCHES.

2/12/2008 2:42:41 PM

funny how most people who have lived in each city for multiple years, like neodata and myself, like both cities and appreciate both cities

but someone like bridget who has only lived in one of the two cities, thinks the one she's never lived in BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWS

2/12/2008 4:03:34 PM

^i too have lived in both for a good amount of time

raleigh for 6 charlotte for 17

i always liked charlotte better. but i do definitely appreciate raleigh too.

especially now that i don't live in either city.

[Edited on February 12, 2008 at 5:20 PM. Reason : charlotte raped bridget's dad or something]

2/12/2008 5:19:58 PM

Charlotte = a mini New York

2/12/2008 6:18:43 PM

^ LOL

2/12/2008 7:03:44 PM

^^ In banking terms yes. It being the second banking capital of the US.

So whos lived in both cities for a long time and likes Raleigh better?

2/12/2008 8:44:49 PM

The more y'all defend Charlotte, the more I know that Charlotte blows.

It just doesn't belong in North Carolina, and I get the feeling that you fuckers agree, which is yet another reason why you suck.

2/12/2008 10:50:03 PM

2/12/2008 11:11:45 PM

^^I Love NC, and Charlotte wouldn't be the same if it were anywhere else.

Quote :

"The more y'all defend Charlotte, the more I know that Charlotte blows."

That's classic. I mean if us Charlottetians could come up with come backs like that then...well i don't even know.

So on another note, anyone been to the new white water center yet? The mountain biking trails are fantastic as well as the massive man-made river which switches up rapids on command.

http://www.usnwc.org/

[Edited on February 13, 2008 at 2:26 AM. Reason : .]

2/13/2008 2:18:16 AM

^ Yes! I went the day the CBS Early Show came and broadcast from there. It was raining and a little cold, but I intend to go back in the Spring when it's nice outside.

2/13/2008 9:28:15 AM

Quote :

"So whos lived in both cities for a long time and likes Raleigh better?"

I lived in Charlotte for 4 years and Raleigh for 7 (including 5 yrs at NCSU). I prefer Raleigh, but understand that Charlotte's a great place. I live out of state and have been looking at returning, and when I tell ppl that I want to move back to Raleigh they ask if I'm considering Charlotte as well. And every time I tell them no, I'm not.

2/13/2008 1:34:37 PM

the only thing i can say about this is when i went out to the bars in downtown charlotte there were even more dudes than the bars in raleigh

and no i didn't enjoy it that way

[Edited on February 13, 2008 at 2:48 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2008 2:42:34 PM

at least charlotte has more than a handful of bars downtown

2/13/2008 3:02:47 PM

Quote :

"The more y'all defend Charlotte, the more I know that Charlotte blows."

just terrific logic there

very sound argument. wtg

take it from someone who has lived an extensive amount of time in both cities and now lives out of state: they are both great places and i look forward to moving back to either of them one day

2/13/2008 4:54:27 PM

yeah seriously, its not even that people like me or jwb are saying "oh i love charlotte, raleigh sucks"

we both like both cities, and maybe prefer charlotte more, but then you have somebody like bridget

2/13/2008 4:59:42 PM

bttt before 90 days

5/12/2008 9:50:43 AM

I lived in Charlotte for 10 years, and I agree with Bridget

5/12/2008 6:51:28 PM