six degreez

8/14/2008 1:42:36 AM

ppm of what? and how can you show causation? There is a direct coorelation between the rise in global temperatures and the decreasing number of pirates over the last few hundred years.

8/14/2008 1:44:18 AM

8/14/2008 1:45:12 AM

Quote :

"actually, the announcement that we would do offshore drilling would certainly cause the price of gas to go down almost immediately. It's this crazy thing called "speculators." you lose"

Quote :

"exactly, and it did happen."

i'm gonna let you two dumbasses in on a little secret, but i don't want you to share it with anyone else, okay? it'll kill the illusion...

...THE GAS YOU BOUGHT TODAY DID NOT COME FROM A BARREL PUMPED, PROCESSED, AND PACKAGED YESTERDAY YOU MORONS

the price you pay TODAY is the result of prices paid for the gas several weeks or a month ago...you guys really don't understand how the economy or imports work, do you? i'm not really surprised, though

Quote :

"basically, you cant give any credit to a replublican but blame something on a democrat, OH HELL NO go hug a tree faggot"

*sigh*...you're almost as stupid as TreeTwista10, aaronburro, and slingblade...you automatically assume i'm playing a favorite party game (i wouldn't expect much else from people don't actually understand the issues at hand, but no worries, i'll give you the benefit of the doubt)...what i was saying is that just like the price of gas (at the pump) doesn't drop significantly in 24 hours from some stupid announcement from our monkey president, the simple fact that we have a democratic congress is not a direct cause of the price of gas (again, at the pump)

it's sad that you all are part of my generation...i'd have hoped you all would be smarter than this

8/14/2008 7:42:41 AM

Quote :

"THE GAS YOU BOUGHT TODAY DID NOT COME FROM A BARREL PUMPED, PROCESSED, AND PACKAGED YESTERDAY"

nobody said it was you retard

but you seem to be the only dumbass in this thread recently that doesn't understand that speculation about offshore drilling can in fact change prices before the oil is actually refined (wow what a crazy economic concept)...all you can do is say RAWR OUR DUMB MONKEY PRESIDENT RAWR I'M A FUCKING DOUCHE

fagmire is such a climate expert, this is the "evidence" he posted last page!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pem69jO0gOE

8/14/2008 10:27:33 AM

Quote :

"nobody said it was you retard"

you're right, nobody said those exact words (nor did i quote anyone on them)...rather, we have morons like slingblade who really believe that what the president says today can drop the price by $0.30 tomorrow and if you believe that as well, you're simply too stupid to have a conversation with

Quote :

"but you seem to be the only dumbass in this thread recently that doesn't understand that speculation about offshore drilling can in fact change prices before the oil is actually refined (wow what a crazy economic concept)...all you can do is say RAWR OUR DUMB MONKEY PRESIDENT RAWR I'M A FUCKING DOUCHE"

did i SAY that speculation doesn't affect the price of unrefined oil? of course i didn't...if you'd like to prove that i did, however, give it a shot...in the meantime, realize that what i AM saying is that since the gasoline at the pump today was not actually just refined yesterday, what you pay at the pump is directly related to what the wholesaler paid weeks or a month ago

and yes, our president IS a dumb monkey...you can't possibly believe otherwise, can you? i mean...really?

look, i really encourage you to research what goes into the petroleum industry from start to product...you quite obviously have no idea whatsoever as to how it works...you take some key concept like "speculation" and try to apply it in a retarded manner (again, before you start jumping on one phrase, please do your best to get it through your thick skull that i'm not saying speculation has no impact whatsoever on petroleum prices...rather, i'm saying that speculation RIGHT THIS FUCKING MOMENT has virtually NO impact on the price you will pay at the pump in 24 hours)

Quote :

"fagmire is such a climate expert, this is the "evidence" he posted last page!"

you know, when you put something into quotation marks (as you did with "evidence"), it implies that the term was actually used in that manner...i realize you're a dumbass, but please do realize that this phrase:

"for those of you who think that 1.) global warming is crock of horse shit or 2.) those of you who know it's real but don't give a crock of horse shit, what's your response to this (admittedly simplified) logic?"

is not the same as:

"evidence"!

do you have to work at being dumb as shit, or does it come naturally to you?

[Edited on August 14, 2008 at 11:38 AM. Reason : .]

8/14/2008 11:36:52 AM

point quagmire02

8/14/2008 11:57:39 AM

Quote :

"speculation RIGHT THIS FUCKING MOMENT has virtually NO impact on the price you will pay at the pump in 24 hours"

*sigh*

when the speculation is "looks like output will be down 0.34% this month" then it has virtually no impact

when the specuation is "its ok for us to drill offshore now", yes it most certainly does impact the price immediately

Quote :

"and yes, our president IS a dumb monkey...you can't possibly believe otherwise, can you? i mean...really?"

RAWR RAWR KING LIBERAL DOUCHEBAG HERE

THAT REDNECK NEOCON HAS AN IQ OF 2 RAWR

Quote :

""for those of you who think that 1.) global warming is crock of horse shit or 2.) those of you who know it's real but don't give a crock of horse shit"

i neither think its a crock of horse shit, nor do i know its real but dont give a crock either...because nobody knows...anybody who tries to tell you they know with 100% certainty that AGW is real or that AGW is definitely not real is a fucking liar

people who blindly say that human emissions have definitely been the cause of the ~2 degree temp increase over the last 100 years is just as dumb as someone who says its impossible that humans caused the slight increase

[Edited on August 14, 2008 at 1:46 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2008 1:40:23 PM

Quote :

"when the specuation is "its ok for us to drill offshore now", yes it most certainly does impact the price immediately"

i don't know what else to say...you are, without a doubt, wrong...i will be the first to say that i think speculation has singlehandedly driven up the price of gas (at the pumps) by $1 or more over the past year or so, but you're just plain stupid to believe that it can affect the at-the-pump price by any significant amount IMMEDIATELY

let's use some real-world numbers, okay? you don't have to trust me on these (and i wouldn't expect you to), but i just need to make it clear how little you know and retarded your assertions are:

you DO realize that a ~$13 jump in barrel prices is about ~$0.30 at the pump, right? i recognize that you weren't the dumbass who pretended like pump prices dropped by $0.30 the day after bush blabbers on and on about drilling, and so i don't know what you consider significant, but i have NEVER seen a $0.10 change in prices OVERNIGHT, let alone a $0.30...over a few days, yes, but not overnight

BUT, if we DO assume the $0.30 claim (again, i agree that you did not make it, but i haven't seen you argue against it)...you're saying that speculation caused an overnight jump in barrel prices of $13? the highest i have EVER heard is $11 (~$0.26) on june 6th...and the vast majority of analysts (you know, those people who know more than me and obviously a LOT more than you) say that that was a an outrageous fluke...a test of the market, to say...it was by no means common, and it has not been repeated

okay, so your point has been made, yes? speculation causes prices of the barrel to rise (i mean, come on, $11 in one session is CRAZY high)...congratulations! oh, no, wait...you're still an idiot:

do you understand supply and demand? bubbles? do you comprehend what trading in oil futures even means? speculators don't actually change or affect TRUE supply demand (i mean, they do, sort of, but it's more complicated that that)...they "speculate" (go figure) on what the price of oil and the supply of oil WILL be...if they assume a higher in the future, they will buy more oil right now, with the hopes that they can sell later at a higher price

this doesn't really work, though...speculation is usually a failing game because if you buy now to increase what you have (so that you can sell later), you're also increasing the amount of goods available (this is a bubble)...they are, in effect, creating a higher demand for the product, thereby increasing supply (because, at this point, oil isn't really running out...there's not less of it being shipped over the course of long-term)...when supply rises (to meet the false demand), then oil prices lower because there is then more supply than demand (this is simplified...i'm hoping you can understand it...this is what happened on the market a few weeks ago, which is why prices are lower now)...even if supply decreases (as you could say it does, since china has seriously increased their demand over time and so less is coming to us...in theory, over the short-term) and demand remains the same (which is hasn't, since people statistically drive less now and demand is less), the market is supported because of the oil that's been sitting there, owned by the speculators, with the idea of selling when the price is higher...this is how speculators make money

but it STILL doesn't really work - not in the long run, and not over a long period of time...the fact of the matter is that demand is lower now than it's ever been (because people are driving less in order to save money): there is a positive relationship between the amount that people drive and the demand for oil...yes, people still drive to work, but they do less recreational driving in order to save money...demand goes down, while supply is the same or higher (depending on the state of speculation)

now, we've established how all of this works...i'd assume you already knew this, but you say too many things that make it seem like you're just guessing (though let me apologize if i explained poorly and/or forgot something...i admit that it's possible)...so, we're both in agreement than speculation causes the price of gas to rise at the pump

but what YOU'RE claiming is that it happens almost instantaneously...if that's the case, why doesn't the price of gas fluctuate IMMEDIATELY with the amount of speculation? why isn't it $0.30 more on my lunch break and then only $0.15 higher on my ride home and then $0.25 higher on my ride out the next morning (actually, a lot of that has to do with regulation, but you get the point)? the simple fact of the matter is that these things take time to trickle down...the profit margin for gas stations has stayed pretty much the same from what it was years ago (despite the rising gas prices), which means that whether they're buying a barrel today at $100 or a barrel a week from now at $150, they're still only making the ~$0.04-6/gallon that they were (we'll ignore the fact that, technically, they're making less now, in order to keep up competition)...that ALSO means that until they get a new fuel delivery, the margin is pretty much the same (because they're making a certain amount on what they've ALREADY paid, not what they MIGHT pay later)...simply put, the gas stations can't speculate themselves...sure, they might be finishing up their last cheaper shipment and jack the price up temporarily because all the other stations got their shipment and had to raise their prices, but it's by no means long-term and by no means sustainable

how much of this confuses you? and how much of that confusion is because you have no idea how it works (which you don't) and how much is because i explained it poorly (because i'm sure i did...it's hard for me to put it into words)?

[Edited on August 14, 2008 at 4:44 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2008 4:39:35 PM

another point quagmire02

2 - love

8/14/2008 4:50:54 PM

i think that the problem is that TreeTwista10 only understands speculation in a limited way...he has the right overall idea, but his frame of time is off

petroleum is the same as wheat or corn - if today corn is $5/bushel and tomorrow morning rises to $10/bushel due to speculation, going to the grocery store tomorrow afternoon will not result in the doubling of the price of corn...the corn that's sitting in grocery store was already purchased at the $5/bushel price, and until they get another shipment in, they will (likely) not raise the price significantly

a better comparison might be wheat, since wheat has to be refined before it's sold in the grocery store, so there's even more of a delay, since wheat prices going up tomorrow don't affect the wheat already purchased today and then refined the next day

[Edited on August 14, 2008 at 4:58 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2008 4:57:56 PM

i understand all that...but you're saying if bush announces offshore drilling is ok, then it will take months for consumers to see the changes in price...it wont take nearly that long

8/14/2008 4:59:36 PM

why would prices go down immediately?

8/14/2008 5:00:30 PM

speculation of much higher supply

8/14/2008 5:01:51 PM

Quote :

"i understand all that...but you're saying if bush announces offshore drilling is ok, then it will take months for consumers to see the changes in price...it wont take nearly that long"

no, actually, i'm NOT saying it would take "months"...in fact, i'm trying to stress that it would be "weeks" and AT MOST a month...but that is by no means "immediately" and certainly isn't what that dumbass slingblade claimed about a $0.30 drop less than 24 hours after an announcement

Quote :

"why would prices go down immediately?"

they wouldn't and they won't because they can't...unless we wake up one morning and all of our cars can run on something other than petroleum

the only thing (that i can think of) that would cause an immediate drop in prices would be a MASSIVE and IMMEDIATE increase in supply...and even then, i really don't see it, because it would STILL take time for that supply to reach us in a usable form, so until that point, the price of gas would stay

[Edited on August 14, 2008 at 5:06 PM. Reason : spelling]

8/14/2008 5:02:24 PM

Quote :

"the only thing (that i can think of) that would cause an immediate drop in prices would be a MASSIVE and IMMEDIATE increase in supply...and even then, i really don't see it, because it would STILL take time for that supply to reach us in a usable form, so until that point, the price of gas would stay"

an immediate cut in demand would probably be more effective

8/14/2008 5:18:09 PM

Quote :

"no, actually, i'm NOT saying it would take "months"...in fact, i'm trying to stress that it would be "weeks" and AT MOST a month...but that is by no means "immediately" and certainly isn't what that dumbass slingblade claimed about a $0.30 drop less than 24 hours after an announcement "

they say when you have to resort to name calling, you lost the arguement.

8/14/2008 5:22:20 PM

okay how about this...people are presumably upset about global warming, whether it exists or not, because they feel we've caused it by burning massive amounts of fossil fuels, and that it's up to us to stop. right?

is there any actual argument against the fact that releasing CO2 into any environment traps radiation and causes a rise in temperature? regardless of whether it will ever cause any significant increase in global temperature, it certainly isn't HELPING matters, is it?

is there any actual argument against the fact that we're running out of fossil fuels, and that we desperately need to find alternative energy sources? should we halt this endeavor until we have no recourse but to park our vehicles and walk?


Be an athiest, or believe in god. Believe we went to the moon in 1969, or believe it was a hoax. Believe we've caused a global rise in temperature, or believe it's got nothing to do with us. Point is, it doesn't really matter and we should all be focused on being more efficient with our energy, right?

8/14/2008 6:00:21 PM

fucking shit. i made the point on the last page and got a 'rofl'

china significantly cut all production because of the olympics and pollution. does anyone read the economist or econ blogs?

8/14/2008 6:04:03 PM

That idiot Bob, from Bob and the showgram (Somehow I still listen to it even though he's a dumbass) was talking about the following:

He said that he was telling his wife he wanted a small fuel efficient vehicle due to increased gas prices. His wife "reminded" him of that "in an accident, an SUV always wins" and that "when gas prices go back down, everyone in the small cars will be kicking themselves that they don't have SUV's." So he kept the SUV.

A. Fuck him, I guarantee that he can't drive for shit and when his incompetence causes a wreck, the other person will be the one to pay for his worthlessness. Something about that is incredibly fucked up.

B. What kind of whacko land do you have to live in to believe that gas prices are ever going to go down substantially?

C. Not everybody wants a gas guzzling brick on wheels.


Note that he actually claimed that we are not running out of oil.

I think he forgot about the massive development of OTHER countries and the fact that the world is consuming oil at ever increasing rates while the supply is decreasing.

[Edited on August 14, 2008 at 6:08 PM. Reason : ]

8/14/2008 6:07:32 PM

Quote :

"is there any actual argument against the fact that releasing CO2 into any environment traps radiation and causes a rise in temperature? regardless of whether it will ever cause any significant increase in global temperature, it certainly isn't HELPING matters, is it? is there any actual argument against the fact that we're running out of fossil fuels, and that we desperately need to find alternative energy sources? should we halt this endeavor until we have no recourse but to park our vehicles and walk?"

you're right, of course...but what people seem to fail to realize is that it's a domino effect...for example, the rise in mean temperature is melting the permafrost in the arctic (i know this for a fact, because i spent last summer in arctic sweden doing research for grad school)...no big deal, right? wrong...when the permafrost melts (and it's not re-freezing as deeply as it used to, so more and more melts each year), the areas turn into giant bogs...bogs contain high levels of decomposing organic matter which, of course, gives off methane as it decomposes...methane has 21 times the effect of carbon dioxide as greenhouse gas

additionally, as global temperatures rise, more moisture is found in the air (overall)...and what's the "worst" greenhouse gas? water vapor

your point, though, is valid...what does it hurt anyone to be more energy efficient and endorse alternative, cleaner energy sources?

Quote :

"they say when you have to resort to name calling, you lost the arguement."

and, perhaps if it were an argument instead of someone intelligent telling someone stupid the facts, then you might have a point

Quote :

"Note that he actually claimed that we are not running out of oil."

if you're talking about me, i debated saying what i did and then chose to say it: "at this point, oil isn't really running out...there's not less of it being shipped over the course of long-term"

while oil, as a finite resource is obviously being used faster than it's being replaced (because, technically, it is being replaced, just not significantly), my point was that our supply source is still functional at our current demand (which is why i qualified it with the part about no less is being shipped to us)

Quote :

"I think he forgot about the massive development of OTHER countries and the fact that the world is consuming oil at ever increasing rates while the supply is decreasing."

again, if you're talking about me, i said: "since china has seriously increased their demand over time and so less is coming to us...in theory, over the short-term"

and yes, i realize those two statements contradict each other, but if you put them back into context, they were used as examples...you're right in that world demand for oil has increased, but the supply has not really been reduced

8/14/2008 10:19:48 PM

if you say so

8/15/2008 12:19:19 AM

8/15/2008 5:30:59 AM