^4 so are you just completely separating yourself from being a state fan now?

6/13/2008 12:19:34 AM

haha, no, everyone accuses me of being a anti-State troll so I figured I would make them happy and actually be on for once

6/13/2008 12:49:07 AM

I sometimes wonder what it would be like to be an alum of a school that has never make it past the Sweet 16 in school history.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any who could share that experience with me?

6/13/2008 12:53:55 AM

i think those people just don't give a shit about college bball, and if they do, they jump on the UNC bandwagon

6/13/2008 12:56:43 AM

They wouldn't dare post in a NC State or college basketball thread to troll then, would they?

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 12:58 AM. Reason : x]

6/13/2008 12:58:49 AM

sure, why not? For a school that gave a rats ass about basketball for years and years and now that they actually do care they are doing really really good and having some of the best recruiting classes, and have the largest on-campus bball facility in the country I am sure that guy feels just fine...


But I do wonder what its like to cheer for a team that has never made it to a BCS bowl game, or won a conference championship game, or won a national championship game in football (much less multiple ones)... that would really suck

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 1:12 AM. Reason : d]

6/13/2008 1:11:28 AM

recruiting classes != Elite 8 appearances

oh we're talking football now? i thought this was the bball thread

Quote :

"or won a national championship game in football basketball (much less multiple ones)"

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 1:14 AM. Reason : .]

6/13/2008 1:13:21 AM

hahah, everyone would trade football a NC over a bball one anyday... and even if you argue that (which you will... blah blah ACC country, blah blah blah), no one can argue which program is in better shape right now.


and of course recruiting classes dont mean automatic success, but I would rather start with really good players and see what happens then start with shit and see what happens


and he brought up "alumni of a school" so that opened it to all sports, you cant say it sucks to cheer for a school and only include one sport and ignore the others. "USC has the WORST bass fishing team ever! much suck to be an alumni of that school!"



[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 1:20 AM. Reason : d]

6/13/2008 1:17:44 AM

Quote :

"hahah, everyone would trade football NC over bball anyday"

I'd argue that NC State would rather have a football national championship (since we don't have one) but a school like Tennessee would rather have a basketball championship (since you don't have one)

but if you disagree, you can feel free to take your 'football > basketball' argument to UCLA and Kentucky and Indiana and UNC and Duke and Memphis and anywhere else outside of SEC or Big 10 country

and hey, State hasn't been great in either of the two main sports lately, but State fans sure as hell care about both of them, unlike some schools whose womens' bball programs get more interest than their mens' bball

6/13/2008 1:22:54 AM

um no. If you said to me "Tennessee can have a bball NC BUT, they will never ever ever have another Football NC.." I would tell you to eat shit



well, Kentucky is in the SEC for one thing, and schools that put bball over football are ones that have historically sucked at football and have to latch on to something (Duke, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan State and UCLA are average at best at football). It kills Kentucky that they cant beat us in football.



and no, just because the women's team is popular doesnt automatically mean the men's isnt... they had the 4th highest average attendance last year, not bad for shitty ass SEC bball




[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 1:34 AM. Reason : d]

6/13/2008 1:24:58 AM

Quote :

"schools that put bball over football are ones that have historically sucked at football"

like UCLA and Michigan State? A couple schools who, unlike NCSU and Tennessee, have actually won national championships in both sports? Quit acting like football is the dominant sport in every single college in the country just because its king in the south

6/13/2008 1:28:05 AM

UCLA and Michigan State are average at best football programs. Football is dominant wherever it is good... Name me one place that has dominant/good football and bball programs where bball is the main sport.

Florida? nope
Ohio State? nope




[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 1:31 AM. Reason : d]

6/13/2008 1:29:23 AM

anyways back on topic...:




Emmanuel Negedu (4-star, top unsigned player for this year) left Knoxville today, going to Memphis.

His final four are Indiana, GT, Tennessee, Memphis. Unless Crean can work some magic I would think Indiana would be out...

6/13/2008 1:43:12 AM

Quote :

"Florida? nope Ohio State? nope"

those are both football schools

and call them average, but UCLA and Michigan State still have national titles in both sports, something neither State or Tennessee have...Texas, Michigan, etc do as well...Texas and Michigan are football schools...UCLA and Michigan State are bball schools

Quote :

"Name me one place that has dominant/good football and bball programs where bball is the main sport. "

I guarantee you that if UNC or Duke ever won a football championship or two (highly laughable, I know), bball would without a doubt remain the main sport

once again i ask you to quit acting like its something universal and its not something regional (ie the South prefers football, the northeast prefers basketball)

6/13/2008 1:43:57 AM

of course they are football schools, thats my damn point... anywhere where BOTH sports are good, Football wins out. Bball is only tops at schools that suck at football. Michigan State hasnt done shit in 40+ years in football. UCLA is average at best in football. If they were as good as USC at football then bball would be #2.


It is universal.

If Duke or UNC were good at football for as long as they have been good at bball, and had a real stadium in the case of duke, football would be #1


ahhh, TreeTwista, the old Navajo word for "he who will argue a losing point for eternity before admitting he is wrong"


and for the record, I tried to bring the thread back to the original topic...

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 1:50 AM. Reason : d]

6/13/2008 1:47:20 AM

Quote :

"anywhere where BOTH sports are good, Football wins out. Bball is only tops at schools that suck at football"

there are football schools and there are basketball schools...notre dame is never going to give a fuck about basketball...duke is never going to give a fuck about football...period

please never again refer to yourself as the voice of objectivity...you're bleeding orange all over the page

6/13/2008 1:51:02 AM

^ um because duke is fucking horrible at football....thats why they dont care... I can PROMISE you that if Duke won a NC in football the attendance would go up JUST slightly. You are a damn fool to think otherwise.


Tell me how I am? I havent said a word about Tennessee except for the recruit (which is perfect for the thread topic and to defend NyM410's dumb comment or your dumb comment)

you have probably said Tennessee more in this thread than I have (not counting this post)





[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 1:56 AM. Reason : d]

6/13/2008 1:52:50 AM

Quote :

"Tell me how I am?"

because Tennessee is a football school, so you're assuming that every school looks at sports the same way

Quote :

"Bball Football is only tops at schools that suck at football bball"

Quote :

"ahhh, TreeTwista10 Jaybee, the old Navajo word for "he who will argue a losing point for eternity before admitting he is wrong"

6/13/2008 1:55:58 AM

well, now that I won another round against TreeTwista I am off to bed, have to drive a long way tomorrow... cross your fingers for Negedu bitches

6/13/2008 1:56:50 AM

i'd hate to be ignorant of cultures of colleges all around the country instead of just in football country

6/13/2008 1:58:20 AM

everywhere is football country


next

6/13/2008 10:33:51 AM

Quote :

"Football is dominant wherever it is good... Name me one place that has dominant/good football and bball programs where bball is the main sport. "

Name one place where the basketball program is dominant and football is the main sport?

Kentucky, Indiana, UNC, UCLA, Duke, UConn, Louisville, Kansas, etc are thought of as the royalty of college bball these days...

Quote :

"everywhere is football country"

Nope. In much of the Northeast, including 2 of the largest 4 cities in the country, college basketball is much bigger. Big 5? Big East Tourney at the Garden? Hell, the high school playoffs in NYC get 19k for every final...

Quote :

"which is perfect for the thread topic and to defend NyM410's dumb comment or your dumb comment"

To be fair, I only said it as bait so I'd have something to read at work...

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 10:53 AM. Reason : ucla]

6/13/2008 10:50:39 AM

^is right about Duke.

Duke made it to the Rose Bowl against USC and the money they won financed Cameron Indoor Stadium...without football, there would be no Duke Basketball.

6/13/2008 12:07:31 PM

I, for one, would take a bball championship over a football championship any day of the week. I think basketball is a far superior sport to football.. And I'd much rather win the NCAA tournament than a BCS bowl or "national championship" game.

6/13/2008 12:21:41 PM

Quote :

"please never again refer to yourself as the voice of objectivity"

6/13/2008 12:27:04 PM

While I would love to win a football national championship, right now I'd rather win a basketball national championship so that we'd be nationally relevant again and people would recognize our great bball tradition. We would catch up with Duke and be one championship behind UNC. We'd also vault ourselves to being right behind Duke in program prestige. Now even though I want a bball championship more, it's not by much. Winning a national championship in football would easily make us the dominant program in the state and one of the best in the ACC. We wouldn't be losing all the great in-state recruits to schools like Clemson, UGA, VT, FSU, UF, etc. Also winning the BCS national championship means your school gets a huge payday. Moreso than winning the NCAA tournament.

6/13/2008 12:44:04 PM

Quote :

"Name one place where the basketball program is dominant and football is the main sport?"

already have, Florida, Ohio State "but but but Jaybee1200 those arent dominant!" over the last decade both have been better than some of the "dominant" schools you mentioned. And as far as the NE, thats because there are no good college football programs up there, like I said... you got what? BC? Syracuse? UConn? no wonder bball is bigger

Quote :

"Kentucky, Indiana, UNC, UCLA, Duke, UConn, Louisville, Kansas, etc are thought of as the royalty of college bball these days..."

Kentucky - football sucks
UNC - football sucks
UCLA - football marginal at best
Duke - football sucks
Uconn - football marginal at best
Louisville - decent football
Kansas - one year of football being good

Louisville and Kansas are the only ones close

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 5:14 PM. Reason : s]

6/13/2008 5:09:42 PM

Quote :

"um because duke is fucking horrible at football....thats why they dont care... I can PROMISE you that if Duke won a NC in football the attendance would go up JUST slightly. You are a damn fool to think otherwise."

doesn't that contradict your point though? If Duke were to all of a sudden become a football powerhouse, according to your theory, the fans would start caring more about football than basketball, right?

6/13/2008 5:28:20 PM

the "just" was sarcasm...

6/13/2008 5:29:52 PM

pardon me. Carry on then.

6/13/2008 5:31:33 PM

but yes according to jaybee's theory, if duke were to get good at football, they'd care more about football than basketball, even though we all know thats not true

6/13/2008 5:32:21 PM

When UNC Football was good under Mack Brown in the 90s, they still had terrible attendance and Basketball was obviously still top dog.

6/13/2008 5:44:36 PM

because they had sucked before...and that was about 4-5 years, not sustained


I am talking about if Duke and UNC had always been as good at football as they have been in bball, football would be on top

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 8:55 PM. Reason : d]

6/13/2008 8:52:35 PM

^you're adding a lot of conditions to your theory

6/14/2008 11:44:08 AM

no I am not... my basic theory is "the only schools were bball is the main sport are the ones where the football program has sucked for the most part" Find me a school where the football team is better than the bball team but bball is still number 1. I can find plenty the other way. Arkansas is "better" at bball, but football is bigger

6/14/2008 3:40:53 PM

^ There's no basis for comparison. There aren't any schools who have always been good at football and basketball. The only way to make the comparison valid would be to find a school that was good at both sports for overlapping extended periods of time, and see which sport its fans/school put above the other. You're citing examples of football schools who have recently become good at basketball, and, surprise surprise, they're still football schools. There isn't a comparable situation where a basketball school suddenly became good at football for any significant length of time, so it's hard to say that they would all of a sudden switch from a basketball school to a football school. You can't cite a lack of an example as evidence that your theory holds true.

[Edited on June 14, 2008 at 3:52 PM. Reason : asdf]

6/14/2008 3:52:04 PM

^ what about State during the Rivers years?

6/14/2008 3:53:25 PM

^^ You can argue with Ohio State's bball success that they can fall in that category, but that success is so antiquated that I don't think it'll work.

Quote :

"There isn't a comparable situation where a basketball school suddenly became good at football for any significant length of time, so it's hard to say that they would all of a sudden switch from a basketball school to a football school."

I think Louisville might be as close an example as you can get... and bball is still king, and it's not even really close, there...

^ States fanbase is MUCH more passionate about basketball IMO. Football sells out because of the social aspect more than anything else. Lets face it, college football is so popular in a place like State because we can eat and drink our faces off before the game...

[Edited on June 14, 2008 at 3:57 PM. Reason : x]

6/14/2008 3:54:57 PM

they are now because State hasnt been good at football in a while, but during those Rivers years you cant tell me football wasnt a bigger deal, more exciting, etc. So if it had ALWAYS been that way I think football would have be bigger... and I dont disagree with the tailgating/drinking, thats part of the college football experience, thats kind of my point. I never said anything about football being a "better game" than bball.



[Edited on June 14, 2008 at 4:00 PM. Reason : d]

6/14/2008 3:59:26 PM

Uh, yeah.

I'm really not seeing your point though. I'm not trolling, you just aren't making sense.

"Football schools" have been better in football in the long run than basketball. "Basketball schools have been better in basketball in the long run than football.

It's pretty straightforward really. There haven't been any schools that have been dominant in both in the long run. Like I said, Ohio State fits that bill the most, but their bball success (until recently) was so far in the past, that it isn't a great example.

6/14/2008 4:01:27 PM

my point is the only schools that are huge in bball are the ones that historically havent been good in football. But there are plenty of schools that have been good at football, and then become good at bball and its still #2, Florida, Ohio State, Tennessee, Texas, Michigan with the Fab Four etc. When State (a bball school) kicked ass under Rivers, football was huge, more exciting and bigger than bball

or to put it another way, if the football is good, its the biggest sport at the university, regardless of how good bball is... if bball is good its the biggest ONLY if football is not as good.




and I would like to note for the record (once again) that I tried to get this back on topic



[Edited on June 14, 2008 at 4:14 PM. Reason : d]

6/14/2008 4:04:02 PM

Quote :

"^ what about State during the Rivers years?"

I think you're overlooking the fact that the 90s soured most State fans on basketball. By the time Rivers got to campus we were looking for any kind of sport to have success and be our sport of choice. I mean, let's face it, State sucks too bad in any given sport for that sport to define our school as a basketball, football, or other sport school. It hasn't always been that way, but I would say for the last ten years it has. Of course we could always say we're a bass fishing school.

And again there's no good example of a traditional basketball school staying good at basketball and all of a sudden becoming good at football for any length of time. If that happened and then they became a football school, I would agree with your theory, but it just hasn't happened yet.

So basically my point is that you probably have a point, but there hasn't been a relevant example to help determine your point's validity one way or another.

6/14/2008 4:29:51 PM

Louisville? I would say football and bball are equal there now.

6/14/2008 4:32:37 PM

^ I would say it's too early to tell, but I doubt that will be the case if their football plays this year like they did last year.

6/14/2008 4:34:39 PM

there are football schools and there are basketball schools

are you getting it yet jaybee? or are you still sticking to your guns of "everywhere is football country"

6/16/2008 3:45:38 PM

I never said there werent football schools and bball schools, I just said schools are "bball schools" only because their football sucks.

6/16/2008 4:10:35 PM

and schools are "football schools" only because their bball sucks...

6/16/2008 4:14:40 PM

and once again, Florida and Ohio State destroy that argument... especially Florida. back to back national championships and what sport is bigger there? football by far



[Edited on June 16, 2008 at 4:18 PM. Reason : d]

6/16/2008 4:16:35 PM

i, among others, already pwnt you on this very page of this thread...theres no point in me doing it again

as long as you still affirm that if UNC or Duke were to get very successful in football, that their fans would all of a sudden care more about football than basketball, you're not worth talking to about the topic because it keeps becoming obvious that you don't understand what basketball schools are and that they exist

6/16/2008 4:17:33 PM

the sky is blue

6/16/2008 4:29:32 PM